SC - RE: SC: Pies

[Nicholas Sasso]

>>> Morgan Cain<morgancain at earthlink.net> 9/13/00 12:20:49 PM >>>
I guess I am being more subtly pedantic that people comprehend.
When I say a PIE, that is what I mean -- something with a bottom crust, and maybe a top one, baked in a pan or form of some kind.  What everybody else has been talking about is what I learned to call a PASTY, maybe from spending part of my childhood in England.  And yes, Cindy has it as RAPEYE from period recipes, so I guess that answers the question.  It's still not a PIE, I note they have an entirely different set of receipts under that title. . . . . .  I still don't think that the turnover-like things you hold in your hand are pies, no matter what Hostess says and despite the fact that fried pies are very popular hereabouts (especially peach in season).>>>>>

Thank you for clarification.  Often times all that is needed is for all parties to clarify terms.  In my cooking heritage, Pies was a general term in which one found tarts, trtlettes, quiches, hand pies, tortes, gallettes, pasties, and other such items that were 'housed' in any form simple flour/fat/water crust.  No less correct or mistaken than your recollection, but a difference to note.  There are several and sundry terms in historical corpus for the items we are discussing that have a forcemeat and a crust of some sort, so my own personal guess is that there is no hard and fast gospel as to the classification of these items in our studied time period, much less the modern time of 'dueling cuisines'.  

A quick survey of Original texts in Pleyn Delit seems to suggest to me that they believe a tart has but a bottom crust, and a pie a top and bottom, with other terms being "en paste'", pastez, crustardes, and tartes.  Not definitive, but it is a brief look at actual texts rather than my own supposition and belief (which often bear me little fruit).
 
niccolo difrancesco