Pierogies vs pirozhki (was Re: SC - Northkeep's Winterkingdom)

[Jane Boyko]

Yana is correct that pierogies is the term used by modern folks for
"dumplings".  However the dough is more of a noodle dough (can be quite
stretchy) as opposed to a pastry dough (usually flour, egg, water and
salt). Dumplings is the English translation that my Ukrainain family, and
many Polish friends, applies to them.  
see:  Lemnis, Maria and Henryk Vitry. Old Polish Traditions In the Kitchen
and at the Table. New York:  Hippocrene Books, 1981.
The Ukrainains refer to these as Varenyky.  The Ukrainians also offer a
dish similar to varenyky called Pyrohy which is made with a yeast-raised
dough or shortning like pastry dough.  The varenyky are not used in the
traditional sense of dumplings (cooked on top of soup or stew) but rather,
quite often, as a meal on their own, first boiled to cook the dough and
then served hot with sour cream.  Depending on the filling these are really
yummy served as leftovers fried in butter.
see: Stechishin, Savella. Traditional Ukrainian Cookery.  Winnipeg, Canada:
 Trident Press Ltd., 1982.  (out of print I believe).
As to the Pirozhok The Art of Russian Cuisine lists three different types
of pies and fillings.

Pirog: large rectangular pie made with a yeast dough and compared to Brioche

Kurnik:  "one of the oldest pirog recipes.  It is round with a cone-shaped
top, about 5 inches high and contains several layers of filling--chicken,
fresh mushroom, and chopped hard cooked eggs.  Crepes separate the fillings
and asorb the juices"

Kulebiaka:  narrow rectangular pie (4 X 12 X 4 inches) (w x l x h) with 2
full crusts and filled with different layers or each corner contains a
diferent filling.

These are classified as the large pies.

Small pies are called Pirozhki
Pirozhok:  small (2.5 to 5 inch long) oval pie or turnover and stuffed with
a meat filling.
Rasstegai:  similar to Pirozhok but open in middle to reveal filling
Vatrushka:  small round open face pie, usually a soup accompianment.

All of these types of pies are baked.
It seems that the Russians used piroghi to refer to all pies of the above
nature as opposed to the the Polish Perogie and the Ukrainain Varenyky.  It
is interesting to note that the Russians also use the term Varenyky to
refer to that special type of dumpling that the mundane world refers to as
perogie.  
book reference:  Volokh, Anne.  The Art of Russian Cuisine.  USA:
MacMillan, 1983.

I have found a refence in "Old Polish Traditions" refering to perogi under
the Lithuanian name of kolduny.  These are described as meat filled perogi
(ravioli to which perogi are very similar).  This reference appears to come
out of the Jagiellon dynasty which started in late 1300's.

Thought I would add to the conversation.  Hope it helps, not confound.

Marina/Jane


>Stefan li Rous wrote:
>>Okay, what is the differance between a pierogie and a piroshki?
>
>In the modern sense, pierogies (Polish origin) are pastry dough stuffed
>with or wrapped around a filling and boiled (sometimes pan-fried
>afterwards). Pirozhkis (Russian origin) are shortcrust (pie) dough or bread
>dough stuffed with or wrapped around a filling and baked, pan-fried, or
>deep-fried (and for the liguistically-minded, the singular is "pirozhok",
>the plural is "pirozhki", and it is spelled with a "zh", not a "sh").
>
>>Did anyone find any definative evidence that these were period? Period
>>recipes would be even better, but I doubt we have that.
>
>I only know about pirozhkis.  Yes, they are period, no, we don't have a
>"recipe."  But, we do know what types of fillings were used in pies, and
>pirozhki means "little pie."  The Domostroi (in the definitely period
>section) lists pie fillings: "For meat days stuff them with whichever meat
>is at hand.  For fast days use kasha, peas, broth [I presume mixed with a
>drier ingredient], turnips, mushrooms, cabbage, or whatever God provides."
>[Pouncy:125].  On page 151 and 161, "turnovers" are mentioned.  In Pouncy's
>footnote of the latter entry, she calls them "pirozhki."  
>
>No mention of the cooking technique, but I would guess they were probably
>baked, like the bigger pies, if only because they would be slightly easier
>to bake for an entire household instead of frying them in batches.
>Although if you set up some sort of assembly-line type of service (fry a
>few, rush them to the diners, fry a few, rush them to the next batch of
>diners, etc.) it might work.  Or maybe keeping them warm in the
>oven...okay, I'm reaching here.  I don't know how they were cooked.  :-)
>
>--Yana
>
>