[Sca-cooks] QED

[Philip & Susan Troy]

tgl at mailer.uni-marburg.de wrote:

> Providing "earlier references" is a wellknown sport in word history. It
> has is fruitful sides. However, I think there is no reason for
> "aspersions". The OED team, like many other dictionary team, did good
> work. They are few and there are so many fields! It is easy for a
> specialist in alchemy, angling, hunting, cooking etc. etc. to provide
> this or that earlier reference or even to provide a usage not recorded
> now and then. Jacob Grimm, the founder of the Deutsches Wörterbuch
> together with his brother Wilhelm (German dictionary on historical
> principles ..., 33 vols.), quoted an old saying:
>
>   ich zimmere bei wege,
>   des musz ich manegen meister han
>
>   'I am working at the side of the road, [i.e. language]
>    therefore many people tell me what I should do better ...'
>    (roughly)

I should be more sympathetic [than I generally am], especially since it
seems to be a particularly SCAdian weakness to refrain from answering a
question, until somebody else goes out on a limb and makes an error, in
which case they are usually happy to correct that person.

> Again: let them know what you find out: support at oed.com

Thanks again; I'll do that. I find it difficult at times to deal with a
source that is based on the (sometimes incomplete) findings of a
committee of scholars, professional or otherwise, whose conclusions are
assumed by others to be the last word on the subject. In the case of my
pomys reference, I had found a ms. quotation which referred to a given
process being applied to "the aforeseyd pomys", with no prior reference
to pomys, or rather to the assumed meaning of same, i.e. apples. There
had, however, been a prior reference to honeycombs being pressed for
their honey, and I had proposed that the pomys reference could be to
those pressed honeycombs, since today pomace can refer to apple or grape
pressings, or even to olives that have already been pressed for oil.
Yes, originally the etymology presumably refers to apples [pressed for
cider], and I simply suggested that the extended usage was earlier than
had been previously supposed, as the 15th-century passage made a great
deal more sense when honeycombs are read, instead of apples.
Unfortunately, certain people who shall remain nameless regarded this as
impossible, since the OED _didn't mention_ this allegedly prior usage,
and quoted some 17th century source for "pomace".

Circular logic, and highly frustrating.

I'll be happy, though, to point them to the relevant MS., and let them
draw their own conclusions.

Adamantius
--
Phil & Susan Troy

troy at asan.com

"It was so blatant that Roger threw at him.  Clemens gets away with
things that get other people thrown out of games.  As long as they
let him get away with it, it's going  to continue." -- Joe Torre, 9/98