OT American copying - was Re: [Sca-cooks] American Iron Chef

[XvLoverCrimvX at aol.com]

In a message dated 6/26/01 10:02:38 AM Eastern Daylight Time, troy at asan.com
writes:

> "Pixel, Queen of Cats" wrote:
>  >
>  > I usually try to sit on my hands for these type of statements, but this
>  > one I had to respond to.
>
>  Hui! You must learn self-control, sampai. I trashed my reply to that
>  statement after, oh, the fifth line or so. However, seeing as how I
>  wasn't the only one to raise my eyebrows over it...
>
>  > Japanese animators copied Disney, when anime was first starting out. Why
>  > do you think all the people in the early stuff have Bambi eyes?
>  >
>  > And if America always copies Japan, why is McDonald's so dang popular
over
>  > there?
>  >
>  > Margaret, who knows people for whom anime is their livelihood
>
>  Surely there are a bazillion areas in which American culture (sic) and
>  our corporate structure have invaded Japan, just as there is a current
>  fad in America for Japanese animation and related products.
>  (F'rinstance, all of Misha's examples. Forgive me if I sound
>  patronizing, this is far from my intent; but Misha is a young man and
>  may have a different memory and understanding of both what was and what
>  is. Not a problem.) Alternately, these can all be viewed as
>  contributions (?) to a world culture.
>
>  Yes, it's true that Japanese animation was, for years, consistently
>  better than American animation. As an example of quality workmanship, it
>  is very much no longer the case. Anime actually began to become
>  prominent when American film and TV producers realized that Japanese
>  artists and animators would work for less money than their American
>  counterparts. I'm talking over forty years ago, when a film revolution
>  (such as it was) occurred for the production of a cheesy
>  American-financed monster movie about a big lizard. Much of it was done
>  with stop-motion photography in Japan only because people like Willis H.
>  O'Brien and his young apprentice, Ray Harryhausen, were far too
>  expensive for the number of camera-minutes in which Gojira is actually
>  visible. The film simply could not have been made in America, although
>  that certainly would have been the first choice of the original
>  producers, given the amount of money spent by American filmgoers versus
>  Japanese ones.
>
>  Other projects followed, and an entire anime tradition was begun, but it
>  was never really intended to be better animation. It was driven entirely
>  by financial concerns. I won't bother with a complete history of anime
>  (not that I could provide one anyway), other than to say that it reached
>  something of a high point at the same time that American animation was
>  at a low point (does anybody remember Disney in the mid-70's?).
>
>  Subsequently, though, various technical improvements (mostly
>  computer-related) allowed for American animation that eventually became
>  consistently _better_ than anything the anime industry could produce. At
>  least, the best of it was of higher quality than the best of anime. So
>  much so that now, anime has adopted a distinctive style that attempts to
>  capitalize on its deficiencies. There was a huge article in the New York
>  Times a month or so ago which concerned the particular facets of the
>  anime style, and how, according to its current practitioners, what used
>  to be considered production values are _supposed_ to be low. The
>  animation is _supposed_ to be jerky, and people are _supposed_ to stand
>  absolutely motionless while their huge open mouths flap between frames
>  with gaping maws and closed mouths, and nothing in between.
>
>  And it should be remembered that most of the allegedly copied animation
>  found in America today is simply dubbed Japanese animation (read the
>  credits), not an attempt to copy a Japanese style.
>
>  As for Iron Chef, I have no idea whether the concept of an American
>  version is a proper example of the phenomenon Misha refers to, but it
>  seems to me a bad idea. I think the fact that it is Japanese is actually
>  part of the fun. it's kind of like watching an American-made
>  martial-arts movie starring, I dunno, Lawrence Welk. It might be
>  screamingly funny _if_ you could actually stay awake through it.
>
>  Adamantius (hates all anime post-Gigantor, loves Asian movies, even the
>  cheesy ones)

First, no patronizing whatsoever :). Second, Japanese anime is much more
interesting than any sort of cartoon American's can do. It appeals to my
generation mostly. Japanese anime is sort of spooky and cliffhanging, yet has
the amount of violence and stuff American teenagers want to see. If you think
American TV is violent, you haven't seen nothing if you watch anime. And
thats partially why it appeals to us. We like blood and gore and all that.
Don't ask me why, we just do. American TV doesn't offer that to us so we turn
to anime to give us that. I was kinda grotesque when I saw my first anime
(Vampire Hunter D) and amazed at all the blood and stuff that was in it. But
I realized it made the whole realization of the situation more interesting.
Plus anime violence is usually more fictional violence and shows more gore
than American TV which could prompt kids to reduce violence, I dunno. Also,
American violence, to me, seems more realistic therefore it could produce
violent teens that want to do that. Third, I disagree with Master A about the
growth of technology that has made anything American made better than anime.
Although it may look better, it isn't at all interesting. Fourth, I know
Japanese anime is dubbed for Americans, but i'm talking about Americans who
have tried to recreate anime. Powerpuff girls. Need I say more? :) Fifth, you
go Master A. Having someone that old doing a action style cooking show seems
boring to me. Kaga is younger and more vibrant so it seems he would make the
show more interesting. WIlliam Shatner is going on either late 50's or 60's.
Kaga is in his 40's. Already you have a 10 to 20 years difference. Shatner
isn't graceful either nor flamboyant, two things he lacks from Kaga. I mean,
c'mon, could you see Shatner in a ruffily shirt with a black tuxedo style
clothing filled with glitter? I would go blind from after seeing that. I
think many of us are used to the Japanese Iron Chef that we reject the
American attempts to recreate it. I think that Fuji films stopped Iron CHef
and that should be that. Stop trying to recreate something that isn't yours.

Misha