SC - Languedoc/Cathar

[Laura C. Minnick]

david friedman wrote:
> 
> >Hallo all.
> >
> >I've recently become fascinated with the Cathar story, and am wondering if
> >anyone has any clue where to look for a resource on their food. It must have
> >been a fascinating food culture since the Cathars came from Asia Minor to
> >France by way of Germany and Italy, and then were tossed out in the early
> >13th century to settle near present day Bosnia.
> 
> I believe you are confusing the path followed by the doctrine with an
> actual mass migration of people. As far as I know, almost all of the
> Cathar's were simply French or Italian, converted to that particular
> heresy.
> 
> What source suggests that they were actually people who had migrated
> from Asia Minor?

I think that this may arise from confusion among sects.

I've done work on medieval heresies, and taught a University of Ithra
session on them. Unfortunately my materials are 120 miles away, so I
can't give full doc on them, but I can give the gist of what I know...

The Manicheans (2nd-3rd c) were in Asia Minor, and were thought to be
the wellspring of the Cathar movement, when in fact they weren't. There
was a significant gap timewise, and while there were doctrinal lines in
common, there were also divergences. Next in the line were the Bogomils,
IIRC, roughly 8th-11 c, in the Balkans. Supposedly one of their
missionaries went to Italy. We don't really know. We do know that a
movement sprung up in the Italian Alps in a region called Albi (hence
the name Albigensians), led by a Peter Something-or-other (I can't
remember the rest of his name). They spread from there to Southern
France, which is not that far away. They called themselves Cathari,
which comes from the Greek _katharios_, meaning pure. This has nothing
to do with being in or from Greece, but everything to do with adhereing
to a New Testament model. 
 
> >  They were purportedly
> >vegetarian,
> 
> The perfecti or the rest of the believers?

The level of adherence to deitary restrictions really depended on who
and where you were, and your level of individual commitment. Your Jay
Random Cathar peasant and his wife eat like normal peasants. If they
aspire to someday be perfecti, they may go with a vegetarian diet. The
perfecti are those who have attained a higher plane of sorts- and they
have nothing to do with and in fact an abhorrence of anything related to
sexual reproduction. (There is a reason why they were the 'elect' and a
minority in the sect- the Cathars would have died out early if everyone
had followed their lifestyle). They do not have sexual relations with
their spouse, if they are married, and live as brothers and sisters.
They are not just vegetarian, but vegan- they eat nothing related to the
carnal nature. No meat. No eggs. No milk. Nothing but vegetables and
grains.

There are not Cathar recipes that I know of, and only a few writings. We
have some secondary work- things written down by Inquisitors. But my
best guess it they ate what the other people of Toulouse ate.

> >with heavy ties to the Mohammedans and other faiths,
> 
> What is the source for that?

I'm curious about that too, because I know of no source that truly
proprts that, except for some of the Inquisitional records which lump
Cathars in with any evil they can think of at the moment. They were
probably accused of stealing candy from babies and teasing small dogs.

A couple of sources I can think of off the top of my head:

_Montaillou_ bu LaDurie. Very interesting account. A couple of caveats
though- 1) this book was written based on Inquisitorial accounts. I look
at it with a bit of a jaundiced eye because of that- how many of us
would lielielielielie to a Dominican who holds our fate in his hands?
I'd tell him what ever he wants to hear, if it got my family off. 2) it
covers people and events from the early 14th century- not the 12th and
13th, which was the heyday of the Cathars. Most of them were stamped out
(particularly around Toulouse) in the mid 13th c. 50-75 years goes by-
and given the levels of persectution and being cut off from the main
sources of doctrine, there may be significant changes in beliefs and
lifestyle. So think of this as the little town in the boondocks where
things may have dissipated a bit...

John Hine Mundy wrote several books on the Cathars and the County of
Toulouse, one, IIRC, is titled _The Repression of the Cathars at
Toulouse_. All of his stuff is very good, if a bit dense.

I'm trying to remember the titles of the big fat
everybody-and-the-kitchen-sink texts we used in class. I think Malcolm
Barber wrote one of them. I would suggest doing a search for 'Medieval
Heresy' and see what comes up...

Hope this helps a little,

'Lainie