[Sca-cooks] Catholic/Christian, was: The Fallwell/Robertson statements

[Philip & Susan Troy]

Tara wrote:

>>Now if someone could only explain to me why the Catholics are not considered
>>Christains................................................
>>
>
> Catholics consider themselves to be Christians.  Some Protestant sects
> consider them to be Christian, too.  But, some Protestant sects consider
> Catholic worship of Saints and the elevation of the Pope to a status
> above normal humans to be worshiping false idols.  Catholics consider an
> awful lot of texts (i.e. the writings of Thomas Aquinas,) to be holy
> writs, which is antithetical to Protestants who consider only the New
> Testament to be the word of God.  Catholic rites such as the Host are
> considered magical or otherwise un-holy in some views.  And, the fact
> that many Catholic churches still forbid parishoners to read the Bible
> for themselves is a big sticking point in many Protestant views.  Most
> Protestants consider one's relationship with God to be of utmost
> importance, not to be interfered with by any other person or opinion.
> You are expected to read and understand the Bible and live by it.
> Catholics are expected *not to* read the Bible, but to let their church
> leaders explain it all to them.  So, those preachers theoretically could
> (and historically, sometimes did) teach anything that fits their agenda.
>
> Basically, it's the same sort of rift that long ago led certain Hebrews
> to no longer be Jews.  The first Christians were born and raised Jewish,
> and continued to follow Jewish ways of life and teach them to their
> children.  Jews were busy waiting for the coming of God, and these
> particular Jews considered Jesus to be that God.  As far as they were
> concerned, the Jews who didn't accept this were too un-holy, too worldly
> minded to notice an obvious fact.  Quickly the culture became so
> seperated from it's source that it was no longer distinguisable as
> Jewish, and they effectively became two different religions.
> Protestants seperated from the Catholics, and quickly became so
> different that they were obviously very different.  The difference is,
> the Protestants and Catholics are still fighting over who holds title to
> the word "Christian."

This is an interesting and effective precis of the reasons who some
people don't consider Catholics Christians. Of course, the fact that
some of it is patently false, and most of the rest is simply untrue in
my own experience as a Catholic, while it may be true in other peoples'
experience, does not help clarify issues. And again, I wish to note that
I don't have a problem with Tara's passing this information on in good
faith. She has unfortunately been misinformed.

Catholics do not worhsip saints. Never did. I specifically used the word
"veneration" in my earlier post in order to draw this distinction.

Catholics study an awful lot of texts. They consider the Old and New
Testaments to be Holy Scripture.

As far as I know, they do not forbid the reading of the Bible. Even if
they ever did, which I question in any setting except, perhaps, for
small villages in the Middle Ages, this would not have been done since
Vatican II, which expressly provides for all services to be in the
vernacular. Priests get drummed out of the corps, so to speak, for
saying the Mass in Latin, specifically to make certain that the mass and
the scriptures are accessible to the everyday person. The idea of any
Catholic Church (i.e. a parish, I assume) even attempting to forbid
people from reading the Bible seems _highly_ unlikely.

 > Catholics are expected *not to* read the Bible, but to let their church
 > leaders explain it all to them.  So, those preachers theoretically could
 > (and historically, sometimes did) teach anything that fits their agenda.

Never met any Jesuits, have you? No, this is just plain untrue, and I
can't imagine where you might have heard this. Some of my education was
at the hands of Jesuit priests, and I have never, in my life, met a more
erudite and more academically encouraging, not to mention demanding,
bunch. I think some of them might have some kind of embolism at the
suggestion that Catholics should not read the Bible. And yes, I suppose
it's true that religious leaders throughout the ages have indeed cloaked
their own agendas in theology, but this act, by definition, excludes
them as representatives of whatever faith it is they profess to teach.
Fallwell and Robertson are actually perfect examples.

Regarding the question of Christians versus Judaeo-Christians versus
Jews, the reality of that conflict is entirely based on the arguments
between Saints Peter and Paul. Paul, who had been quite a zealous Jew,
felt that Christians should be circumcised and otherwise adhere to the
Law of Moses as closely as the teachings of Jesus allowed. Peter felt
that a lot of this was unnecessary, and that it would be better to have
many Christians that might be seen as imperfect under the Law of Moses,
instead of a few perfect ones. Ultimately, though, the fact that
circumcision, etc., has, for the most part, never been required for
Catholics, along with the fact that Peter is regarded as the Church's
first Pope, suggests that the division being spoken of did not last very
long.

Regarding the Host, I can only say that the transsubstantiation is
considered by some to be miraculous, which is not the same thing as
magical, and since all Christianity is based on the resurrection of
Jesus from the dead anyway, why is necromancy any less magical and
unholy than transmuting bread and wine into body and blood? Especially
if you consider that the significance of both acts is probably largely
symbolic.

Thinking back, I'm interested to note just how long it's been that I've
actually heard a Catholic even suggest that Protestants were somehow
less Christian than Catholics. Unless you count Sean Connery's line in
"The Untouchables", about being among the heathen who wouldn't recognize
a Saint Christopher medal, I haven't encountered anything like this in
real life in, what, over thirty years.

Maybe somebody in the research department needs to be replaced. Oh, and
we also have little horns on our heads ;  )

Adamantius
--
Phil & Susan Troy

troy at asan.com

"It was so blatant that Roger threw at him.  Clemens gets away with
things that get other people thrown out of games.  As long as they
let him get away with it, it's going  to continue." -- Joe Torre, 9/98