[Sca-cooks] Pesto commentary/Hi, Steffan!

Thu Aug 29 18:02:44 PDT 2002

Thank you, Helewyse, for all your research!

Last January, a newby in Western Seas was telling
everyone that pesto was period because the newby
found mention of it in Esther Aresty's book.  Our
local Laurel there, who isn't a cooking Laurel,
wrote and asked if this was true.  So I did some
research and asked for help from Johnnae, who had
a copy of the Buttes book and graciously copied
it onto a CD and sent it to me.  I also wrote to
Dr. Gloning, who gave me this response:

>>>Hello Huette,

I looked up a chapter in S. Serventi/ F. Sabban:
La pasta. Storia e cultura di un cibo universale.
Roma 2000, 327ff. (Pasta e compagni), which
contains some remarks on pesto (p. 335f.).

There they say: "La prima ricetta di pesto
scritta è stata pubblicata, salvo errori, nelle
'Vera cucina genovese' del 1863, ma nella
tradizione italiana medievale si trovano
preparazioni che lasciano già affiorare lo stesso
spirito, preannunciando la grande specialità
genovese ...".

Among the recipes showing this 'spirit', they
mention Martino's 'maccheroni alla zenovese'
(with rucola and parmiggiano). But it is not more
than "lo stesso spirito".

The quotation in Italian says roughly, that the
first printed recipe that is clearly a recipe for
pesto genovese comes from the 19th century.
They say that there are earlier recipes "in the
same spirit", meaning e.g. mixing parmigiano and
an odorous herb like basil or rucola. But that is
not much, and the authors are otherwise well
versed in the texts of Martino, Scappi, Romoli,
Messisbugo, ... I assume they would have
noticed a clear recipe for pesto. >>>

So, for future inquiries, I would suggest that
perhaps Steffan add this and my other post to the
Florilegium, so that when this topic is asked
about again [and it will], we don't have to
re-invent the wheel again.

Yours,

Huette

--- Louise Smithson <helewyse at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Here we go to forstall all further did it
> (Pesto) or
> didn't it exist.  I say NAY.  There were two
> recipes I
> identified that are precursers of the modern
> pesto but
> are obviously not Pesto as we know it.
> Just for the record it took me over an hour of
> browsing to find them and 1 1/2 hours to do the
> transcription and translation.  Hunting through
> a
> cookbook nearly three inches thick for a recipe
> you
> don't know exists or not is a little tricky.  I
> only
> did it because I really wanted the answer.
>
> Note on transcription.  Long s has been
> substituted
> with modern s.  U where appropriate has been
> substituted with V.  Ess (the funny B letter)
> has been
> substitued with ss.
> Per Far salza verde.  Cap CCLXXII.  Secondo
> Libro
> Piglisi petresemolo, cime di spinaci, acetosa,
> pinpinella, ricula, & un poco di menta, e
> tritisi ogni
> cosa minutamente, & pestasi nel mortaro con
> fettoline
> di pane brustolito, e sara in arbitrio, se vi
> si vorra
> mettere amandole o nocelle, ma accioche rimanga
> piu
> verde, si sara senza, & come sara pesta, vi si
> mettera
> pepe & sale, stemperandola con aceto & se sera
> ben
> pesta, non occurrera passarla.  In questo modo
> si
> potra sara capriola cioe viticchi de viti.
> To make Green Sauce.
> Take parsley, sprouts of spinach, sorrel,
> burnet,
> rocket and a little of mint and cut everythng
> finely
> and paste it in the mortar with small slices of
> toasted bread and it will be in your judgement
> if one
> wants to add almonds or hazelnuts, but to the
> end that
> it stays more green it is made without, when it
> is
> ground one puts in pepper and salt, temper it
> with
> vinegar and it will be well blended, it does
> not
> require straining.  In this way it is for roe
> deer
> that is a yearling in life.
>
> Per fare & cuocere Maccaroni in piu modi per
> giorno
> quadregesimale. Cap CCLV.  Terzo libro.
> Piglisi una libra di fior di farina, & una
> libra di
> pangrattato, passato per lo foratoro minuto,
> impastisi
> ogni cosa con acqua che bolla & oglio d'olive
> mescolato con un poco di zafferano, e faccia la
> pasta
> che non sia troppo soda, ma ben mescolata sopra
> una
> tavola, e come havera preso il caldo,
> faccianosi i
> gnocchi cioe maccaroni sopra la grattacascio, e
> poganosi a cuocere in acque che bolla con un
> poco di
> sale, & come saranno cotti, cavinosi e
> ponganosi in un
> vaso di terra o di legno, e mettavisi sopra una
> agliata fatta di noci peste, spigoli d'aglioi,
> pepe, &
> polpa di pane ammogliata nell'acqua calda,
> mescolisi
> ogni cosa insieme, & servanosi con pepe &
> cannella
> sopra.  Ma volendo farsi maccaroni tirali ad
> basta,
> facciasi la pasta piu sodetto, & lascisi un
> pochetto
> riposare lo sfoglio sopra la tavola, e taglisi
> con lo
> sperone a liste quadre o in altro modo, a
> beneplacito,
> & faccianosi cuocere all'acqua e sale, e
> servanosi
> come i soprascritti.  Et chi vorra potra ancho
> coprirli di salza verde.
> To make and cook maccaroni in more ways for
> lenten
> days.
> Take a pound of flour and a pound of grated
> bread
> passed through the finest sieve.  Bind
> everything
> together with boiling water and olive oil mixed
> with a
> little saffron. Make pasta that is not too
> firm, but
> well mixed on the table (knead well) and when
> it has
> lost its heat makethe gnocchi that is maccaroni
> above
> the cheese grater (*1) and put them to cook in
> boiling
> water with a little salt.  When they are cooked
> strain
> and put them in a dish of clay or wood and put
> above a
> garlic sauce made of walnuts ground, garlic
> cloves,
> pepper and crumb of bread that has been soaked
> in hot
> water.  Mix everything together and serve them
> with
> pepper and cinnamon above.  But if one wants to
> make
> maccaroni drawn out enought, make the pasta
> more firm
> and leave it to rest as a sheet on the table
> and cut
> it with a sperone (*2) into square (four
> cornered)
> strips and cook them in water and salt and
> serve them
> as it is written above.  And if you want they
> can also
> be served covered with green sauce.
> (*1) - The noodles are made in the first
> instance the
> way that noodles for paprikash are often made.
> A soft
> dough is grated into boiling water.  This would
> yield
> small dumpling style pasta shapes.
> (*2) - The noodles can also be made like
> tagliatelle.
> The pasta is made more firm, rolled out into a
> sheet
> and cut with a Sperone.  Scappi carries a
> picture of a
> "Sperone da pasticiero" - literal translation
> spur of
> the pasta chef.  It has a curved knife on one
> end, a
> handle in the middle and what looks like a
> fluted
> cutting wheel on the other end.  It would
> therefore
> allow you to make very fancy cut pasta.
>
> While both recipes bear some similarity to the
> modern
> pesto there are some differences.  Bear in mind
> that
> even in Italy the use of Pesto is more or less
> restricted to the Genova region.  Pesto is
> properly
> referred to as Pesto Genovese and is a regional
> specialty.  This form of pesto contains Basil,
> Pine
> Nuts, Garlic, Olive Oil and Parmesan cheese.
> The green sauce has plenty of herbs BUT no
> Basil.  You
> may choose to add nuts (almonds or hazel) but
> are
> advised not to.  There is no olive oil, garlic
> or
> cheese.
> The second recipe details pasta covered in
> sauce.  You
> may either add a garlic nut sauce (again two of
> the
> ingredients of modern pesto) or the green
> sauce.  But
> again signature ingredients of the Pesto
> Genovese are
> not present.
>
> As to the Bagna Calda I found nothing that in
> any way
> resembled it.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Helewyse de Birkestad.
>
>
>
>
>
>
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=====
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shall never cease to be amused.

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