[Sca-cooks] Re: Sca-cooks digest, Vol 1 #1413 - 14 msgs
Sarah Fitzpatrick
fitz at ccountry.net
Wed Feb 13 22:25:07 PST 2002
I don't consider Palvels yogurt tangy. It is just milk and cultures, not any
stabilizers so if you shake it, it goes liquid. I drink the whey that
accumulates on the top. I buy their nonfat if I am in the right store. It is
a bit "gooey" and I love the cultured cream on the whole milk stuff, but it
is a bit bad for the cholesterol. You can use it to make your own as it is
live culture. Sarah----- Original Message -----
From: <sca-cooks-request at ansteorra.org>
To: <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 8:54 AM
Subject: Sca-cooks digest, Vol 1 #1413 - 14 msgs
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: OT- Input request from SCA BoD/politics (Stefan li Rous)
> 2. Adamantius' deification (Stefan li Rous)
> 3. Re: Re[2]: [Sca-cooks] OT- Input request from SCA BoD/politics
(lilinah at earthlink.net)
> 4. Re: Adamantius' deification (Philip & Susan Troy)
> 5. temperature of served period food (Stefan li Rous)
> 6. Re: OT- Input request from SCA BoD/politics (david friedman)
> 7. Re: temperature of served period food (denterleather1)
> 8. Re: OT- Input request from SCA BoD/politics (denterleather1)
> 9. OT: Input request from SCA BoD/politics (Diamond Randall)
> 10. War (Kim Schab)
> 11. Re: Potatoes? Period? (johnna holloway)
> 12. Re: temperature of served period food (Mary Denise Smith)
> 13. Re: Middle Eastern Food (lilinah at earthlink.net)
> 14. Re: temperature of served period food (Hrolf Douglasson)
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 00:08:37 -0600
> From: Stefan li Rous <stefan at texas.net>
> To: SCA-Cooks maillist <SCA-Cooks at ansteorra.org>
> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] OT- Input request from SCA BoD/politics
> Reply-To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
>
> Eldric said:
> > Also the statement that the BoD does not publish the charges because it
may
> > lead to lible charges is BS. The only way the publishing of the charges
> > could result in lible is if they are untrue. So the BoD is saying we
won't
> > say what the charges are so if we are worng we can't be sued?
>
> While I pretty much disagree with the rest of the comments you've
> made about the BoD, I do also find myself concerned about this
> secrecy having to do with banishments. I am however, willing to
> put it down to erring on the side of caution and perhaps rather
> conservative legal advice.
>
> The treasurer of our barony was recently given a level 3 banishment.
> However, neither the Baron, nor the Kingdom Seneshal nor anyone
> else will say what the banishment was about, citing these legal
> precautions and SCA rules.
>
> Since I worked hard to help put money into our group treasury, I'd
> like to know how much money disappeared, if any. It makes me rather
> hesitant to do anything to put more money in the treasury if it is going
> to get pocketed. It may well have simply been some bad bookkeeping or
> something else. But with no information to go on, and no one with the
> knowledge willing to say anything, it does raise questions. A level
> 3 is the severest banishment that a Crown can impose. Hardly something
> I think would be imposed for something minor, but certainly possible.
>
> Unless this leads to a permanent banishment from the SCA, this
> also allows the individual to go to another group and perhaps do
> something similar and no one in the new area would know. Or
> if the individual gets cleared by the BoD, this same secrecy allows
> the doubt to remain.
> --
> THLord Stefan li Rous Barony of Bryn Gwlad Kingdom of Ansteorra
> Mark S. Harris Austin, Texas stefan at texas.net
> **** See Stefan's Florilegium files at: http://www.florilegium.org ****
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 00:18:16 -0600
> From: Stefan li Rous <stefan at texas.net>
> To: SCA-Cooks maillist <SCA-Cooks at ansteorra.org>
> Subject: [Sca-cooks] Adamantius' deification
> Reply-To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
>
> > Certainly my own experience is that a lot more people (but not all)
> > are doing work in cookery as a matter of course that equals or
> > exceeds the best achievements of Laurels for cookery even five years
> > ago (jeez, I've been a Laurel for going on five years, and I was on
> > this list well before that).
>
> Interesting, considering since this list first formed in April 1997,
> it is not quite five years old. :-)
>
> > Adamantius, not expecting deification in his own lifetime
>
> Hmmm. Doesn't the Catholic Church have a set schedule for this? A
> certain number of years that must be spent at each stage? And I
> think you have to be dead to reach that first stage. :-)
>
> St. Adamantius? But I do hear that some of the stages are pretty
> rough. Or did they eliminate that martyr bit? :-)
>
> --
> THLord Stefan li Rous Barony of Bryn Gwlad Kingdom of Ansteorra
> Mark S. Harris Austin, Texas stefan at texas.net
> **** See Stefan's Florilegium files at: http://www.florilegium.org ****
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 3
> From: lilinah at earthlink.net
> Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 22:19:02 -0800
> To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
> Subject: Re: Re[2]: [Sca-cooks] OT- Input request from SCA BoD/politics
> Reply-To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
>
> From: "denterleather1" <denterleather1 at earthlink.net>
> > Actually I thought there were 17 already, doesn't west keep a spare in
> > case the politics get to hot for the primary King:)
> >
> > Elric
>
> I don't think we need a spare. We have three crown tourneys a year
> here in the grand and glorious old West. It's youse udda guys what
> needs spares, with only two crown tourneys a year. And hot, well, not
> around here lately. Snow? In San Francisco? Moo-ooo-ooo (a local
> in-joke with some food content)
>
> Anahita
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 01:43:49 -0500
> To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
> From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Adamantius' deification
> Reply-To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
>
> > > Certainly my own experience is that a lot more people (but not all)
> >> are doing work in cookery as a matter of course that equals or
> >> exceeds the best achievements of Laurels for cookery even five years
> >> ago (jeez, I've been a Laurel for going on five years, and I was on
> >> this list well before that).
> >
> >Interesting, considering since this list first formed in April 1997,
> >it is not quite five years old. :-)
>
> You've mentioned this before, but I think you may be mistaken about
> the starting date. I recall joining it on the day Gunthar dropped a
> line about it to the East Kingdom list, and I seem to recall that was
> in March of 96. I could be wrong, though, but I also don't remember
> you from that far back, so either the list is older than you think,
> or perhaps I just don't remember you because I didn't know who you
> were at the time.
>
> >
> >> Adamantius, not expecting deification in his own lifetime
> >
> >Hmmm. Doesn't the Catholic Church have a set schedule for this? A
> >certain number of years that must be spent at each stage? And I
> >think you have to be dead to reach that first stage. :-)
>
> Well, maybe, but then I wouldn't want to upset the ecumenistic apple
> cart. It's bad enough we worship saints and perform witchcraft in the
> Mass, or so I've heard, but note that I said "deification", not
> "canonization". Kinda hard to have that in a monotheistic religion,
> don'tcha think? Therefore, these distinctions are irrelevant. I'm
> goin' for the whole enchilada here... or, rather, as I'm _not_
> expecting deification, perhaps I'm _not_ going for the whole
> enchilada.
>
> Do Jai Spring Rolls count?
>
> >St. Adamantius? But I do hear that some of the stages are pretty
> >rough. Or did they eliminate that martyr bit? :-)
>
> Yeah, maybe some saint was really ugly and served God better by dying
> old and in bed, I dunno. But the bottom line is that while martyrs
> seem to have something of an entre into sainthood (although it's not
> a done deal; not all martyrs are saints, at least not canonized
> officially, AFAIK), quite a few saints have died of natural causes,
> more or less.
>
> Adamantius
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 01:00:22 -0600
> From: Stefan li Rous <stefan at texas.net>
> To: SCA-Cooks maillist <SCA-Cooks at ansteorra.org>
> Subject: [Sca-cooks] temperature of served period food
> Reply-To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
>
> Elric commented (tongue in cheek) about the effects of not having
> Royalty around:
> > And lastly this concept is highly supported by those who are feastcrats,
> > imagine a feast starting on time, no need to wait for the Royals to
finally
> > show up:) and a populace who gets to try period dishes hot instead of
cold:)
> > Why this is the main reason many Scadians think period food was always
> > served cold :)
>
> However, we have discussed just how hot much period food was, at
> least that served in Great Halls. By the time you bring it in from
> an outside kitchen, up one or more stairs, just how hot would it
> still be? I'm not sure we ever came to a conclusive answer.
>
> Even if you didn't have Royalty, you would still often have Barons and
> Baronesses etc. So I'm not sure the lack of a King around effects
> things that much.
>
> --
> THLord Stefan li Rous Barony of Bryn Gwlad Kingdom of Ansteorra
> Mark S. Harris Austin, Texas stefan at texas.net
> **** See Stefan's Florilegium files at: http://www.florilegium.org ****
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 22:37:45 -0800
> To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
> From: david friedman <ddfr at daviddfriedman.com>
> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] OT- Input request from SCA BoD/politics
> Reply-To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
>
> Various people are arguing about pay to play. I don't think it has
> anything to do with period cooking, so won't join the fray. People
> interested in my views, from a long previous round of this argument,
> will find them in the Miscellany:
>
>
http://www.daviddfriedman.com/Medieval/miscellany_pdf/Matters_of_Opinion.pdf
>
> The relevant part of this is "A Letter" on page 217. It was written
> about twenty years ago. The pieces that follow it are relevant to the
> more general issue of how our hobby ought to be structured.
>
> For a lot more material on these issues, see the set of letters,
> essays and posts webbed at:
>
> http://www.daviddfriedman.com/Medieval/Board_Flap.html
>
> --
> David/Cariadoc
> http://www.daviddfriedman.com/
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 7
> From: "denterleather1" <denterleather1 at earthlink.net>
> To: <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] temperature of served period food
> Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 07:49:47 -0500
> Reply-To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
>
>
> > Even if you didn't have Royalty, you would still often have Barons and
> > Baronesses etc. So I'm not sure the lack of a King around effects
> > things that much.
> >
> ><< OK SO WE START AT THE TOP AND WORK OUR WAY DOWN :)
> Isn't that how Democracy started :) REVOLT REVOLT REVOLT!
>
> THE KING IS A FINK:)
>
> OK so I like it the way it is too:) Problems and all its still best game
> around..............
> But every now and then my Viking soul just has to have thoughts like
that:)
>
> In Service of the Dream
> Elric
>
> PS From what I could discern from reading discriptions here and there,
they
> actually were able to serve most food fairly hot, it was chilled food that
> were a problem.
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 8
> From: "denterleather1" <denterleather1 at earthlink.net>
> To: <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] OT- Input request from SCA BoD/politics
> Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 07:52:19 -0500
> Reply-To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
>
>
> > Various people are arguing about pay to play. I don't think it has
> > anything to do with period cooking, so won't join the fray. People
> > interested in my views, from a long previous round of this argument,
> > will find them in the Miscellany:
>
> <<<I enjoyed reading your letters, excellent concepts, but what you should
> have said is "This Time" I won't join the fray :)
>
> Elric
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 9
> From: "Diamond Randall" <ringofkings at mindspring.com>
> To: "sca-cooks" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
> Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 7:7:20 -0800
> Subject: [Sca-cooks] OT: Input request from SCA BoD/politics
> Reply-To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
>
> [ Converted text/html to text/plain ]
>
> >
> > > > Yes but there is 14 or 15 kings at the moment.
> > > > Thorbjorn
> > >
> > > There are currently 16 Kingdoms (and, I assume, 16 Kings) -- soon to
> > > be 17, I understand (congratulations to Lochac).
>
> We are in trouble if 7 of them are big enough to be SCA dwarves. Looking
for
> 3 tall, blond artsy types with pointy ears to balance things out.
>
> Akim
> --- Diamond Randall
> --- ringofkings at mindspring.com[1]
> --- EarthLink: The #1 provider of the Real Internet.
>
>
> ===References:===
> 1. mailto:ringofkings at mindspring.com
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 05:37:57 -0800 (PST)
> From: Kim Schab <madchefla at yahoo.com>
> To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
> Subject: [Sca-cooks] War
> Reply-To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
>
> Unsubbing for Estrella. See some of you there,
> otherwise when I return!
> Have a good week!
> Alessandra
>
> =====
> "Optimism is a force multiplier." Colin Powell
>
>
> Always remember, stressed is just desserts spelled backwards :)
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!
> http://greetings.yahoo.com
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 09:48:17 -0500
> From: johnna holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
> To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
> Subject: [Sca-cooks] Re: Potatoes? Period?
> Reply-To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
>
> You can also hunt up a copy of
> The History and Social Influence
> of the Potato by Redcliffe Salaman.
> 1949. reprinted with introduction and
> corrections by J. G. Hawkes, C.U.P., 1985.
> By the time you read all 600 plus pages of
> it then you'll have a pretty good grasp of
> what happened or might have happened with
> the potato through history.
>
> Johnna Holloway Johnnae llyn Lewis
>
> Terry Decker wrote:>
> > Potatoes, again. This question regularly
> pops up here and is often an
> > irritation, so let me give you a fast answer.
> > Yes, potatoes are period.
> No, they were not in general use. snipped
> > Anyway, enough of potatoes. Check out the Florilegium. If you have any
> > questions after that, post away.>
> > Bonne chance,>
> > Bear
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 09:20:38 -0700
> From: Mary Denise Smith <costumemag at costumemag.com>
> To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] temperature of served period food
> Reply-To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
>
> <So I'm not sure the lack of a King around effects things that much.>
>
> Long ago, I was hall steward for a feast, and this is what happened. It
> was the very first feast for 2 (now) highly accomplished ladies, and we
> had a very blonde King who would NOT put his royal ass in the chair.
>
> I got my hands on a friendly neighborhood duke and politely threatened
> his life if he did not grab the King, shove him down in the chair and
> HOLD him there until 1 plate was on the table. Said duke performed his
> duty with much less force than I suggested, the head server RAN up the
> aisle with a platter and put it on the table. His Blondness blinked as
> if awakening from a long winter's nap and said something pithy like "Oh,
> was I delaying dinner?".
>
> The rest of the feast went perfectly.
>
> One of those ladies is now a Laurel (but not for cooking), and the other
> is on this list.
>
> Respectfully submitted,
>
> MD/Marged
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 13
> From: lilinah at earthlink.net
> Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 08:52:52 -0800
> To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Middle Eastern Food
> Reply-To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
>
> On Mon, 4 Feb 2002, at 07:44:43 PST,
> Jaime Declet <jjdeclet at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >Question concerning yogurt in Middle Eastern period dishes. I was under
the
> >impression that yogurt back then was more like sour cream today? Is that
> >correct? My ex-father in law is from the Middle East and he always said
> >that the yogurt here was not strong or thick enough.
>
> I just realized that because i was moving and it took the phone
> company three days to figure out how to hook up my phone, i had
> skipped reading a whole slew of digests!!! WHAT was i THINKING???
>
> OK, so, my response to you, Jaime, is...
>
> a) I'm guessing your ex-father-in-law was from the Levant. The
> product he was talking about was probably Labna/Lebneh/Lebni (note
> that the pronunciation of the Arabic words can vary a bit from
> culture to culture, and romanizations can vary as well), which is
> made from yogurt, but isn't yogurt. The Persian yogurt i've had has
> been more like Pavel's and not at all like lebneh.
>
> One way to make lebneh is get some cheese cloth and line in a bowl so
> there are several layers. Then take that excellent quality, pure,
> whole milk yogurt (see my description below) and dump it into the
> center of the cheese cloth. Pull up the edges and corners of the
> cheesecloth around the yogurt and tie it shut. Then hang it up (some
> folks tie it to the kitchen sink spout) so that the liquid/water/whey
> gradually drains out of the yogurt and into the bowl. Some folks
> leave it overnight, some folks fewer hours. It should be thicker than
> sour cream - all the lebneh i've had, both commercially and homemade,
> has been denser than commercial sour cream.
>
> You can drink the whey afterwards for a refreshing sort of buttermilk
> drink, although it will be thinner than buttermilk - most commercial
> buttermilk is made of cultured milk anyway, although sometimes you
> can find real churned buttermilk.
>
> b) we don't known exactly what "period" Near Eastern yogurt was like.
>
> I just use regular yogurt, Pavel's Russian-Style Whole Milk Yogurt
> ...well, in some ways it isn't regular, since, unlike most brands, it
> has no stabilizers added, being made exclusively of milk and yogurt
> cultures. I consider this the very best yogurt. I suspect that for
> average American taste it will be too tangy, but it is excellent for
> cooking.
>
> I would add that in my experience cooking "period" Near Eastern
> dishes that contain yogurt, the flavor is, in my opinion, much better
> with whole milk yogurt rather than with some reduced fat version. I
> can taste/feel the difference. And i noticed a difference between the
> same recipe made with Pavel's and with some other brand of yogurt.
> Pavel's is a local (SF Bay Area) brand, but i imagine that other
> regions have a brand of high quality yogurt made without added
> stabilizers.
>
> Of course, anyone who has had *real* cream cheese, not that nasty
> gummy "Philadelphia" brand stuff, can guess at some of the
> differences in texture between pure milk products and products
> thickened with stabilizers, no matter how natural those thickeners
> and stabilizers are.
>
> As for tanginess that some other posters have mentioned: I am certain
> that modern American yogurts (or the bacilli that produce the yogurt)
> are processed in such as way as to make them less sour, since even
> the unsweetened brands are very bland and lacking in the appropriate
> tang that yogurt ought to have, even many unsweetened "health food"
> brands (Continental? Feh!). The Bulgarian yogurt i had when i lived
> in Indonesia (imported from Bulgaria in narrow glass bottles) was a
> real eye-opener - and it was meant to be drunk, not eaten with a
> spoon.
>
> The drive towards sweeter and sweeter products is disturbing to me.
> As someone who appreciates food with a range of flavors and textures,
> i prefer variety, not just sweet or salty.
>
> For example, i bought some Ragu spaghetti sauce once because i was
> broke and it was on sale REEEEL cheap. I threw it away, because it
> tasted like tomato syrup to me. I just couldn't eat it. I ate my
> noodles with butter and Parmesan. I find it hard to find a good salad
> dressing that doesn't taste like syrup - i don't mind a dash of sugar
> to balance the flavors, but, really, i don't want slightly sour
> herb-scented syrup on my salad (i tend to buy Annie's brand, but even
> they make some awfully sweet dressings).
>
> I raised my daughter with Westbrae Foods' "Unketchup" - the FDA
> stipulates that to be called ketchup/catsup/etc., the product must
> contain a minimum amount of sweetener and since is has NO sweetener
> (no added corn syrup, fructose, sugar/sucrose, maltose, dextrose; no
> honey; no concentrated fruit juice), just tomatoes, vinegar, herbs
> and spices, etc., it is called "Unketchup". The sweetness comes from
> the cooked down tomatoes themselves. Anyway, when my daughter tasted
> commercial ketchup she was rather surprised at the flavor which is so
> overpoweringly sweet. If i'm in a restaurant and i want to put some
> ketchup on something, like home-fries, i always add some Tabasco (and
> i really don't like Tabasco), to tone down the sweetness.
>
> Anyway, enough ranting about sweetness. As you can tell, i don't have
> much of a sweet tooth. Back to yogurt and lebneh.
>
> Anahita
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 14
> From: "Hrolf Douglasson" <Hrolf at btinternet.com>
> To: <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] temperature of served period food
> Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 16:50:38 -0000
> Reply-To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
>
> A true story.
> There was a lady who became mistress of Edward vii
> When the king, then prince of wales, was delaying the start of dinner, she
> marched into the dining hall and informed his royal highness that if he
> still wanted souflee as a starter he would sit down immediately as the
> soufflee was no respector of majesty or birthright.And unlike his horse
was
> threatening to fall.
> The Prince laughed, sat down and was never late again when she ws cooking.
> regards
> vara
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mary Denise Smith" <costumemag at costumemag.com>
> To: <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 4:20 PM
> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] temperature of served period food
>
>
> > <So I'm not sure the lack of a King around effects things that much.>
> >
> > Long ago, I was hall steward for a feast, and this is what happened. It
> > was the very first feast for 2 (now) highly accomplished ladies, and we
> > had a very blonde King who would NOT put his royal ass in the chair.
> >
> > I got my hands on a friendly neighborhood duke and politely threatened
> > his life if he did not grab the King, shove him down in the chair and
> > HOLD him there until 1 plate was on the table. Said duke performed his
> > duty with much less force than I suggested, the head server RAN up the
> > aisle with a platter and put it on the table. His Blondness blinked as
> > if awakening from a long winter's nap and said something pithy like "Oh,
> > was I delaying dinner?".
> >
> > The rest of the feast went perfectly.
> >
> > One of those ladies is now a Laurel (but not for cooking), and the other
> > is on this list.
> >
> > Respectfully submitted,
> >
> > MD/Marged
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sca-cooks mailing list
> > Sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
> > http://www.ansteorra.org/mailman/listinfo/sca-cooks
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
> http://www.ansteorra.org/mailman/listinfo/sca-cooks
>
>
> End of Sca-cooks Digest
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