[Sca-cooks] RE: Sca-cooks digest, Vol 1 #1251 - 16 msgs
Elaine Koogler
ekoogler011 at home.com
Fri Jan 11 10:45:41 PST 2002
I wondered how long it would take for you to join us! For the rest of you
who may not know this lady, she is one of the finest cooks Atlantia has
produced, and a very gracious and gentle lady. She taught me much of what I
know, and I suspect that there are very few cooks in Atlantia that can't say
that! We have worked together in many kitchens, and it's always a joy to
discover that we will be together once again. She has had her Laurel in
cooking for a number of years, and it was long overdue when she received it.
She has also been a Queen of Atlantia, several years back.
Judith, your sage advice is, as usual, to the point....
Kiri
-----Original Message-----
From: sca-cooks-admin at ansteorra.org
[mailto:sca-cooks-admin at ansteorra.org]On Behalf Of Smith, Judith
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 12:49 PM
To: 'sca-cooks at ansteorra.org'
Subject: [Sca-cooks] RE: Sca-cooks digest, Vol 1 #1251 - 16 msgs
Hello,
I am brand new to the list, but not to the SCA. I would like to make a
suggestion on the food allergy issue. In doing a feast, I have found it to
be to my advantage to post the ingredients of the dishes that will be
prepared for that event. This works for a small feast (one of few dishes),
but obviously becomes more complex if it is a 12th Night, Coronation or the
like. This has a couple of advantages 1. Revels don't come in and ask lots
of questions just before the serving of the food. 2. Anyone with an allergy
can look to see which dishes they may want to avoid. 3. Protects the sponsor
group from repercussions of someone eating something that makes them sick.
It also has disadvantages: 1. It can be very time consuming. 2. Some may
look at the ingredients and think that it sounds pretty yucky, when in truth
it is quite good and has been taste tested ahead of time.
In Atlantia there is usually a disclaimer in every event announcement "for
food allergies please contact the cook ahead of time-name given and contact
info.
If someone still insists on eating on-board after precautions have been
taken, then: Have them help prepare or help the cook select the menu for the
next feast, or take their chances on what is being prepared. Too much time
and effort goes into the preparations of a feast to have to cater to someone
too thoughtless to prepare themselves ahead of time.
Who knows though, this same person may discover some really tasty period
dishes that few have tried before and they make a super contribution to the
whole group.
This sounds like a problem of communication more than anything else.
Really didn't mean to get on such a soap box on my first communication, but
my ole protege knows how I can get sometimes-eh Rosine? :) I promise to be
better.
Judith
> -----Original Message-----
> From: sca-cooks-request at ansteorra.org
> [SMTP:sca-cooks-request at ansteorra.org]
> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 11:20 AM
> To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
> Subject: Sca-cooks digest, Vol 1 #1251 - 16 msgs
>
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>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: What would you advise? (Christina L Biles)
> 2. Re: Cooks' Con 2 - tacky commercial plug (Devra at aol.com)
> 3. EK 12th Night (Devra at aol.com)
> 4. Re: What would you advise? (Philippa Alderton)
> 5. Re: powdered vanilla (Olwen the Odd)
> 6. Re: Re: Cooks' Con 2 - tacky commercial plug (Elaine Koogler)
> 7. Re: the way to a man's heart (Philippa Alderton)
> 8. Re: chicken plucking (Devra at aol.com)
> 9. dealing with difficault diets (Hrolf Douglasson)
> 10. Re: What would you advise? (jenne at fiedlerfamily.net)
> 11. Re: powdered vanilla (Diana Haven)
> 12. Re: Maryland Stuffed Ham (Philip & Susan Troy)
> 13. Re: Re: chicken plucking (Tara Sersen Boroson)
> 14. Re: What would you advise? (Hrolf Douglasson)
> 15. Re: rescruitment (Diana Haven)
> 16. Frosting vs. Icing (was Re: [Sca-cooks] Powdered Vanilla) (Pixel,
> Goddess and Queen)
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 1
> To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] What would you advise?
> From: "Christina L Biles" <bilescl at okstate.edu>
> Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 10:32:42 -0600
> Reply-To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
>
> Rosine said:
> >>We have a newly-arrived member of the barony who insists on eating
> onboard. She doesn't consult with the cook beforehand (she and her husband
> also eat as part of the "baronial mess" when we're camping)
>
> My advice is to sit down and talk to her. She needs to either put up or
> shut up.
>
> I have a similar allergy to spinach. At your typical SCA feast,
> there are one to two dishes I can't eat and can't cook. So, I don't.
> There have been two feasts where I didn't check the menu beforehand, and
> my choices for eating would have been bread, butter, and armored turnips,
> and I acknowledged my idiocy in not checking beforehand and wandered off
> to the local McDonalds. Onions are more difficult, because they are such
> a widespread product. (My friend with a bean allergy eats offboard
> because that is almost his only option...) Nonetheless, that makes it
> more her responsibility, not less.
>
> I believe in making accommodations for people with allergies. If
> I make one dish with onions, she should know which dish it is and avoid
> it. If I make 10 dishes with, and one without, I'm willing to make a
> small amount of at least some of the other dishes without onions, IF I
> know beforehand. If invite her over for dinner, I won't use onions. If I
> (or anyone else) have a party or a gathering with munchies, her
> responsibility is to bring a dish with no onions that she likes and is
> willing to eat. My responsibility to her as my guest is to make sure that
> if I am making multiple dishes, one of them won't have onions. It isn't
> as much fun for her, but her right to swing her fist stops short of my
> nose.
>
> Hmmm... Another way to put it. The amount of accommodation she can
> expect depends on the size of the group affected and her efforts to help
> herself. As my personal invited intimate guest, there will be no onions
> cooked. As a personally invited guest at a small party, there will
> probably be munchies with onions, but they will be marked. At a random
> anyone in the group gathering, I will (if I know about her) make sure of
> an onionless dish if I am making multiples. It's her responsibility to
> bring at least one dish she can eat, and to ask about the ones she didn't.
> Or to ask beforehand that dishes be marked, and skip the ones that
> aren't. When cooking for my group, I make sure to allow for the
> vegetarian, the diabetic, the teetotallers, and the spinach, fish, bean
> (etc) allergies, _as long as I know about them_. That usually means
> either a small pot with differences or an extra dish, not that I prevent
> everyone else from enjoying whatever it is (even spinach). At a feast, it
> is entirely her responsibility to talk to the cook well beforehand to find
> out what dishes have onions, and request options.
>
> Decide how you feel about her behavior, and how you feel about what is a
> reasonable level of accommodation. Talk to her about it now, before it
> has a chance to escalate.
>
> -Magdalena
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 2
> From: Devra at aol.com
> Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 11:36:04 EST
> To: <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
> Subject: [Sca-cooks] Re: Cooks' Con 2 - tacky commercial plug
> Reply-To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
>
> In addition to the delicious dinners and wonderful lectures and
> interesting panels, I'll be there with some great books for sale.
> Devra the Baker
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 3
> From: Devra at aol.com
> Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 11:37:59 EST
> To: <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
> Subject: [Sca-cooks] EK 12th Night
> Reply-To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
>
> Lord A,
>
> I hope that you are planning to share with us your recipes, esp those for
> the garlic sauce, the pork and bird pie, the blankmange of fish,and the
> fruit and cheese pie. Yummers.
> Devra the Baker
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 08:41:40 -0800 (PST)
> From: Philippa Alderton <phlip_u at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] What would you advise?
> To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
> Reply-To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
>
>
> --- Gorgeous Muiredach <muiredach at bmee.net> wrote:
>
> > Well, I happen to think that you must be at least
> > willing to work it
> > out. As I said very recently to someone in a shire
> > nearby me:
> > "A community that exclude even one of its members is
> > no community at all".
> > This was said after they basically refused to
> > examine the building of a
> > ramp for me to get in Court/Feast. But the basic
> > issue remains similar.
> > Though it works both ways, *she* has to be willing
> > too, and not only that
> > her viewpoint is the only one.
>
> Now here, love, is the crux of the problem. Asking for
> a ramp for handicapped access is one thing- that is a
> permanent item which, in time, will accomodate more
> than just you. The difference is that you were willing
> to work out a solution- you didn't use emotional
> blackmail to try to convince the folks to tear the
> building down or move the site ;-)
>
> > The sooner you sit and talk, the better.
>
> Agreed. If she's young, as Beautiful said, she may
> simply be immature enough not to realize what she's
> doing. Application of the clue bat is necessary- force
> used is up to you, depending on her response, and your
> perception of what the right thing is to do, and how
> willing you are to do it. If she's doing this over
> onions now, who knows where else she's using the same
> tactics. Time to stop it is now.
>
> Phlip
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail!
> http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 5
> From: "Olwen the Odd" <olwentheodd at hotmail.com>
> To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] powdered vanilla
> Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 16:42:16 +0000
> Reply-To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
>
>
> > > > They also stock the kind of
> > > >spices that just cry out for
> > > > experimentation. And powdered
> > > > vanilla. What would you do
> > > > with powdered vanilla?
> > > >
> > > >Rosine
> >
> > > Tell you what. You get me some powdered vanilla
> > > and I'll tell you what I do with it!
> > > Olwen said, with all sort of ideas spinning round in her head....
> >
> >
> >Coming to University?
> >
> >Rosine replied, with an evil chuckle
>
> I don't believe so. Not unless someone throws me in their car at the last
> minute.
> Want my address??
> Olwen
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 11:45:23 -0500
> From: Elaine Koogler <ekoogler at chesapeake.net>
> To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Re: Cooks' Con 2 - tacky commercial plug
> Reply-To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
>
> Awright...rub it in....Damn, being unemployed is a bite! Maybe next
> year.......
>
> Kiri
>
> Devra at aol.com wrote:
>
> > In addition to the delicious dinners and wonderful lectures and
> interesting panels, I'll be there with some great books for sale.
> > Devra the Baker
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sca-cooks mailing list
> > Sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
> > http://www.ansteorra.org/mailman/listinfo/sca-cooks
>
> --
> Elaine Koogler
>
> "A stroke of the brush does not guarantee Art from the bristles"
>
> -- Kosh
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 08:52:11 -0800 (PST)
> From: Philippa Alderton <phlip_u at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] the way to a man's heart
> To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
> Reply-To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
>
>
> --- "Laura C. Minnick" <lcm at efn.org> wrote:
>
> > Oh gosh... who was it that said "Some say the way to
> > a man's heart is
> > through his stomach. But who'd want to make a messy
> > trip like that?"
>
> Actually, my experience has demonstrated that they
> were aiming a bit high- still messy, but a lot of
> fun.....
>
> Phlip, the chronically politically incorrect......
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail!
> http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 8
> From: Devra at aol.com
> Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 11:53:50 EST
> To: <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
> Subject: [Sca-cooks] Re: chicken plucking
> Reply-To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
>
> Just to throw a spanner in the works :-) Among Orthodox Jews, you do not
> s=
> cald the bird; you pluck it dry. I have never done this, but my own dear
> mo=
> ther described it to me (uck) including the disgusting feeling of the
> littl=
> e chicken fleas that would get onto you as you plucked. These dry-plucked
> =
> feathers would of course be used for stuffing things--waste not, want not.
> Devra (who's relieved she doesn't have to pluck it)
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 9
> From: "Hrolf Douglasson" <Hrolf at btinternet.com>
> To: <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
> Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 16:59:22 -0000
> Subject: [Sca-cooks] dealing with difficault diets
> Reply-To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
>
> Never having used a single ingredient in every savoury / sweet dish I find
> it hard to empathise with the difficulty, however we have a lady with a
> similar allergy in one of our groups.
> We label her dishes ( a quick word before menus are finalised ensures her
> dish is what she likes.) She supplies her own server(normally her other
> half) and has become a very useful member of our little gang.
> Personally I find the challenge of catering authentically for dietary
> restrictions more FUN than anything else.
> The charm offensive always works best. Take the wind out of her sails by
> always being the more charming and considerate of the pair of you..An 'oh
> dear can't she cope..I'll help ' sweet smile eventually wins every time.
> If she continues to be difficult find her something useful like being the
> foundation for a freeway bridge.Just remember
> NO WITNESSES
> have fun
> vara
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 10
> From: jenne at fiedlerfamily.net
> Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 11:59:39 -0500 (EST)
> To: <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] What would you advise?
> Reply-To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
>
> > We have a newly-arrived member of the barony who insists on eating
> > onboard. She doesn't consult with the cook beforehand (she and her
> husband
> > also eat as part of the "baronial mess" when we're camping), but she has
> an
> > allergy to onions that she says is so extreme that her throat will swell
> if
> > she kisses her husband after *he* eats a dish prepared with onions.
> There's
> > been a certain amount of silent pressure from her to push the host/ess
> of a
> > casual gathering (like a fighter's practise with munchies) to insure
> that
> > onion-less foods are provided.
>
> Well, it's a good idea, I was always taught, to avoid duplicating too many
> ingredients in a feast, so that if someone is allergic to one thing they
> may be able to eat the majority of the feast. Alliums don't have to be in
> everything.
>
> However, it is _utterly_ unreasonable (I had this conversation with the
> three people in my old household who had allergies) for someone to say,
> "You can't serve _anything_ with x because I'm allergic to x". If that
> allergy is so severe, then she needs to stay away from the kitchen.
>
> > Are there any kind of substitutions for onions? Is this actually an
> easy
> > fix? Are we going over-board in catering to this sigular sensitivity? (I
> > must add that at our last event, the feast cook was not informed of the
> > girl's allergy and was considerably taken aback when on the day of the
> event
> > she was treated to stunned disbelief that she'd planned a menu that
> involved
> > onions - and the girl made a quietly public scene by breaking into tears
> in
> > her husband's arms in the main hall when he left the kitchen to tell her
> > what the menu was... but that could have been merely stress and dismay,
> and
> > not artifice.) I'm at a loss as to how to address this, and at some
> point,
> > as the baroness, I'm going to have to. So does anyone have any
> suggestions?
>
> She may be simply over-reacting to the whole 'having an allergy' thing and
> be inexperienced enough with the allergy to be completely stressed out by
> it. I have an acquaintance who is allergic to peanuts, who said that she
> went through months when she was afraid to eat the food in her own
> refrigerator.
>
> -- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa
> jenne at fiedlerfamily.net OR jenne at tulgey.browser.net OR jahb at lehigh.edu
> "Are you finished? If you're finished, you'll have to put down the spoon."
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 09:02:13 -0800 (PST)
> From: Diana Haven <tantralya69 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] powdered vanilla
> To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
> Reply-To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
>
>
> >
> > > Tell you what. You get me some powdered vanilla
> > > and I'll tell you what I do with it!
> > > Olwen said, with all sort of ideas spinning round
> > in her head....
> >
> Olwen,
>
> this product is available thru the King Arthur Baking
> Catalogue (one of my favourite wish list catalogues).
> They also have lovely cinnamon, lemon and cherry chips
> to put in cookies and cakes - nothing like a cinnamon
> and choco chip cookie!
>
> =====
> Diana d'Avignon
> newly of the Barony of Starkhafn
> Kingdom of Caid
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail!
> http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 12:03:57 -0500
> From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
> To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Maryland Stuffed Ham
> Reply-To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
>
> Elaine Koogler wrote:
>
> > Great description, Master A...We really don't have much in the way of
> stuffed clams here...as you said, we're more of an oyster place in winter,
> > and a crab place in the summer. Mmmmmm....steamed crabs, softshell
> crabs,
> > and, best of all, wonderful crab cakes about the size of a baseball,
> with
> > chunks of backfin crab meat and just enough breading to hold them
> > together...oh my!
>
> My brother and sister-in-law live in Arnold, MD, and they both have
> ridiculously busy schedules, so the last time I visited them, years ago,
> I found that they had a lady come in and clean three or four days a
> week, help out when they entertain, etc. While my family isn't, this
> lady very definitely is, native to the Chesapeake Bay area. She
> apparently uses a simple judgement criterion: if you deal properly with
> steamed crabs you're all right with her. She had some doubts at first,
> but then she encountered the sight of both my lady wife and son tearing
> into crabs. Apparently she was won over when my son showed her how to
> get at a little bit of crab meat she hadn't known about...
>
> Adamantius
> --
> Phil & Susan Troy
>
> troy at asan.com
>
> "It was so blatant that Roger threw at him. Clemens gets away with
> things that get other people thrown out of games. As long as they
> let him get away with it, it's going to continue." -- Joe Torre, 9/98
>
> > > stuffed clams here...as you said, we're more of an oyster place
> > in winter, and a crab place in the summer. Mmmmmm....steamed
> > crabs, softshell crabs, and, best of all, wonderful crab cakes
> > about the size of a baseball, with chunks of backfin crab meat and
> > just enough breading to hold them together...oh my!
>
> My brother and sister-in-law live in Arnold, MD, and they both have
> ridiculously busy schedules, so the last time I visited them, years ago,
>
>
>
> --
> Phil & Susan Troy
>
> troy at asan.com
>
> "It was so blatant that Roger threw at him. Clemens gets away with
> things that get other people thrown out of games. As long as they
> let him get away with it, it's going to continue." -- Joe Torre, 9/98
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 13
> Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 12:14:32 -0500
> From: Tara Sersen Boroson <tsersen at nni.com>
> To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Re: chicken plucking
> Reply-To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
>
> Interesting - I've never heard that one before! What is the reason for
> it?
>
> -Magdalena
>
> Devra at aol.com wrote:
>
> > Just to throw a spanner in the works :-) Among Orthodox Jews, you do
> not=
> scald the bird; you pluck it dry. I have never done this, but my own dear
> =
> mother described it to me (uck) including the disgusting feeling of the
> lit=
> tle chicken fleas that would get onto you as you plucked. These
> dry-plucke=
> d feathers would of course be used for stuffing things--waste not, want
> not=
> .
> > Devra (who's relieved she doesn't have to pluck it)
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 14
> From: "Hrolf Douglasson" <Hrolf at btinternet.com>
> To: <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] What would you advise?
> Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 17:07:21 -0000
> Reply-To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
>
> If her husband chooses to take dishes with onions included....that is
> between her and him. Personally I would point out that it is not your job
> to
> sort out marriage problems and that there are counsellors for that sort of
> thing
> regards vara
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 15
> Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 09:15:13 -0800 (PST)
> From: Diana Haven <tantralya69 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] rescruitment
> To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
> Reply-To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
>
>
> --- Stefan li Rous <stefan at texas.net> wrote:
> > My recommendation is that newcomers put their
> > initial money
> > towards a subscription of their local newsletter.
> > This gives
> > them the information about when the local group is
> > meeting, as
> > well as info on when various guild meetings and
> > other things
> > are happening.
> >
> Actually Stefan, I've a list of about 20 or 25 sites
> that I regularly frequent - and many of the recipes
> that have been redacted/discussed. The Florilegium is
> one of them - of course!! As well as some of the
> webbed translations of period cookbooks. I add sites
> as I find them to be helpful or simply WOW such as
> Olwens site.
>
> Two sites are from Pennsic's past - and that is one of
> the reasons I suggest that people join. If you are
> going to Pennsic, it is worth it to get the discount.
> It's funny, but many people want to go just to
> experience it once - and get hooked.
>
> Olwen, I did let her know that there were many people
> involved in making the arms. I have your email with
> some of their names listed - and BTW, she was suitably
> impressed with the 'cooperation' that was evident.
> I've met some of the other people she knows and it
> seems that an overinflated ego is standard among them.
>
> My housemate gets the local newsletter (note to self:
> see if it is available online in PDF format - like in
> old barony) and that is what I used along with his
> copy of the Caid newsletter. When I get settled - and
> a job dang it - I'll be re-joining myself.
>
> Now to get back to the kitchen and finish making
> chickn-n-dumplins.
>
>
> =====
> Diana d'Avignon
> newly of the Barony of Starkhafn
> Kingdom of Caid
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail!
> http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 16
> Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 11:19:28 -0600 (CST)
> From: "Pixel, Goddess and Queen" <pixel at hundred-acre-wood.com>
> To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
> Subject: Frosting vs. Icing (was Re: [Sca-cooks] Powdered Vanilla)
> Reply-To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
>
>
> > Anahita
> >
> > Aside: is there a significant difference between frosting and icing,
> > or is it just a regional word usage variation like stuffing vs.
> > dressing (me, i put stuffing in a turkey and dressing on a salad) or
> > soda vs. pop? It seems to me that i hear them used interchangeably -
> > although as with other words, perhaps there is a specific usage in a
> > specialized baking/pastry community...
>
> Well, it depends on who you talk to, what books you read, where you went
> to school, that sort of thing. I, personally, use "frosting" to refer to
> that goo in a can or the properly made substance it's pretending to be,
> assuming that it is the only thing you are putting on the outside of the
> cake. Or I just call it buttercream (or "that goo in a can").
>
> OTOH, if you are squishing it through a decorator tube, or laying it down
> as a canvas for further decoration, then it's icing. But that's just me. I
> *think* my grandfather made the distinction between things with fat being
> frosting and things without fat being icing, which may be more accurate.
>
> Margaret
>
>
>
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> End of Sca-cooks Digest
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