[Sca-cooks] Vegetarian politics aside.....

[Phil Troy/ G. Tacitus Adamantius]

Also sprach Kirrily Robert (please note I have inserted the numbers):

>[1] - they want at least one protein, one starch, and two side vegetables
>   each course
>[2] - if the protein is something the meat-eaters are having as a side dish
>   (eg an eggy tart) they would like to be given extra, so that the
>   meat-eaters don't grab it all, and so they don't feel like it's a side
>   dish.
>[3] - they want stuff that is well flavoured.  Many SCA side dishes are less
>   flavoured than the mains.  Think of the situation of roast beef with
>   some strongish sauce, with a potage of cabbage, something rice-like,
>   and a quichey thing.  The vegetarian will get three mild-flavoured
>   dishes, which can get bland pretty quickly.  Stuff doesn't have to be
>   *strongly* flavoured, but it does have to have *distinctive*
>   flavours.
>[4] - ditto for texture.  Sure, many period veg dishes are "slop", but it's
>   nice to have some variety if you can manage it.  Crunchy, chewy,
>   smooth, grainy... whatever.
>[5] - the old traditional vegetable dishes get REALLY OLD, REALLY FAST.
>   This includes "rice with bits", "brown lentil glop", "armored
>   turnips", "green salad", and "cabbage soup".
>[6] - something seems more like a "main" dish if it is not glop.  Things
>   that have a distinct shape, and where one or two of those distinct
>   shaped things are your serving, seems like a main dish.  See the
>   distinction between the omelet and mac and cheese, below.  Other
>   examples of "main"-seeming dishes: pies, tarts, patties.  Try to make
>   some of your vegetarian protein dishes in these shapes, for variety.

I would say that [3] and [4] above are quality issues that are
experienced by everyone, whether they eat meat or not, and really
have nothing to do with menu design or planning. Yes, these
difficulties may stand out more when you don't have a big hunk of
rare steak to fall back on, but with the exception of Asian meals
whose basis is something like plain, unsalted, boiled or steamed rice
(accompanied by something flavorful, as a rule), food in general is
not supposed to be that bland, not even that boiled barley.

As for quantity, well, between proper planning on the part of the
cook and decent behavior on the part of the meat-eating diners, which
I would rather not assume would be a problem, this should be easily
surmountable. Not getting enough of such a dish should not be
considered a problem with the dish itself, and choosing one dish over
another in menu planning would seem not to address this particularly
well.

>- they want the protein/starch/side-veg/dessert dishes to be spread
>   through the feast, so they don't find themselves having a course where
>   all they get is starch (my allergic-to-meat friend once had a feast
>   where all she got for one course was boiled rice and boiled barley,
>   both under-flavoured)
>- they want their plate to seem full when their fellow diners' plates
>   are full.  If the meat comes out first, and they're sitting waiting
>   for something to eat, they get antsy.  Also, if veg dishes come out in
>   dribs and drabs they'll only ever have a small bit of something on
>   their plate, which doesn't seem like a meal to them, it seems like a
>   series of tastes.
>
>>  I'm perfectly happy with an eggplant lasagna as a main dish (I dislike
>  > vegetarianism, not either vegetarians or vegetables), and I can cheerfully
>  > make a meal out of a number of "appetizers" as in tapas, dim sum, or sushi
>>  (but not pizza ;-). I will be quite satisfied over a lunch of a pbj and
>>  perhaps a bit of fruit.
>
>Yup, this is the meal-vs-feast thing.  I think a PBJ is a perfectly good
>lunch if I'm lazing around the house, I expect more when I sit down in a
>hall with candles and stuff.
><snip>
>>  Thinking, though, that Kirsten's suggestion of subbing in tofu in dishes
>>  which require bits of beast, would not be a solution I'm happy with. While I
>>  respect projects such as cousin Phillipa's efforts to create modified
>  > recipes, to accomodate various food issues (btw, how's that coming, cuz?
>>  Haven't heard much from you on it.) it's not my idea of recreating Medieval
>>  food. My goal is to try to recreate what they actually ate, rather than to
>>  change it to suit myself. I much prefer Cariadoc's suggestion, to simply
>>  choose recipes which suit your various food issues.
>
>Yup, but if you can't find enough period recipes to cover it, most
>vegetarians would prefer a TVP dish than nothing.
>
>I forget what the quantities are, but isn't 1/2 a pound of meat per
>person usually quoted as the working figure for catering?  Well,
>vegetarians want 1/2 a pound of protein too, preferably not just as a
>single bowl of brown glop :)  Whether you do that with period recipes or
>by substituting TVP into period recipes is a personal choice of the
>cook.  Me, I wouldn't do it all the time, but I might occasionally do a
>small batch of a dish with TVP for the vegetarians if I thought it would
>be a close match for the particular dish.  Like, not roast beef, but if
>it were little meat-and-fruit pastries, then it might be an OK
>substitution.

So while I'm really not trying to lead the witness, is this becoming
an argument in favor of separate food for non-meat-eaters, versus the
idea of incorporating meatless dishes into the main menu? Some of the
recurring issues seem to relate to non-meat-eaters feeling somehow
less catered to (see the feast-versus-meal references, the various
discussions on what constitutes a "main" dish, and the suggestions on
making meatless protein in chunky, but also, coincidentally or not,
more labor-intensive, forms) than meat eaters are.

I mean, when you remove from this discussion things like people not
getting enough of a given dish, which really is not about the
meatatarian-versus-vegetarian conundrum, and quality issues, since
omnivores and carnivores all seem to agree that badly cooked and
seasoned food sucks, whichever group you belong to, what are we
really left with? It sounds mostly like a plea for more considerate
planning, with a view toward what that course, and that complete
feast, will look like with the meat dishes subtracted, and whether it
needs something more, and how much of this is about the emotional
response of vegetarians to certain foods, some of which seems to be
shaped by when these people ate meat, or at least have allowed the
meat-eating sector to help form their expectations.

Adamantius
--
"No one who cannot rejoice in the discovery of his own mistakes
deserves to be called a scholar."
	-DONALD FOSTER