[Sca-cooks] Siege Cooking Competition: Carrots and Competitions

[Sharon Gordon]

Stefan asked:

 >wondered about that, too. But if you use the leaves/stems as well as
the roots is it a root vegetable? Are carrot tops even edible? Are
there period recipes which call for these? Perhaps salads?

***Carrot tops are edible.  They taste somewhat like parsley but stronger.
Some carrot tops are sweet but strong.  Others have a more bitter taste like
they may have been grown in a hot dry area. I have used small amounts of the
sweeter ones in soups.  For people to be able to eat any large amounts of
them, I think some breeders will need to work on getting the flavor milder
and sweeter such as has been done for beet or turnip greens.   At the moment
I can't think of a period recipe for carrot tops.  Here's a modern summary
of info on carrot uses and medical info:

http://www.ibiblio.org/pfaf/cgi-bin/arr_html?Daucus+carota+sativus

 > So, is better for each team to be given the same ingredients? Or
> different things?

***For a straight competition, to me it's easier to compare the results if
people have mostly the same things to work with.  If the object is to turn
the food into a four course meal for 100+ people such as is being done for
the Dec 2004 Cook's symposium, I think having each course have independent
ingredients is good.

>
> I've seen some reviews which had a lot more selection of materials than
> others. Do those who have participated in these prefer to have a wide
> variety of ingredients or have them rather restricted?

***I like both.  The important thing to me is that some of the ingredents be
very versatile.  For instance most people could do a variety of interesting
things with:
Chicken, whole
Milk, whole unpasturized, 1 gallon
Eggs, 6
Wheat berries, 5 pounds
Apples, 5 pounds
Carrots, 3 pounds
Turnips with tops, 5 pounds
Vinegar, 1 pint
Lard, 1 pound
Assorted herbs, spices, salt, yeast, drinkable water

compared to
Chicken livers, 3 pounds
Romano cheese, 1 pound
Peas, dry 2 pounds
Rye flour, 5 pounds
Plums, 5 pounds
Beets with tops, 3 pounds
Sauerkraut, 3 pounds
Mixed greens, 5 pounds
Sesame oil, 1 quart
Assorted herbs, spices, salt, yeast, drinkable water

>
> What are folks opinions on being able to bring selected ingredients
> from home?

***That can be helpful as it makes it possible for the team to personalize
their results

 Do you want to know the ingredients you will be given ahead
> of time or not?

***People seem to like both ways a lot.  Personally, I like the ahead way as
it makes it possible for the team to make maximum use of their creativity
through thinking and planning.  If people are permitted to bring some things
with them, it helps to know what will be provided, so they don't have to
bring to camp for example 3 pounds of every root vegetable possible, not
knowing what root vegetable they will be given, and so not knowing what
would be a good addition to it.  In this case knowing helps save lots of
money.

***On the other hand some people like the adrenaline rush of the surprise
followed by the controlled panic to plan a menu, and the intense work to
organize, create, and cook a good menu in an impossibly short amount of
time.  This same sort of variety exists in other professions.  We have the
long term programer and the help desk trouble shooter: the detective and the
street cop, and the dermatologist and the ER doctor.

 >If yes, do you wish to have one or more unknown until
> the contest, ingredients?

***Here, I think it's helpful for the mystery ingredient to have a category
so that people can focus their planning.  Examples:
3-5 pounds of meat/bones
3 pounds of grain
1 bunch of green herb
a levening agent
5 pounds of a root vegetable
1 pound of dried fruit
2 cups of condiment
3 pounds of fresh fruit
3 pounds of a dairy product
1 pound or quart of fat/oil

***Here's are some posts from another list involving a similar discussion:

Some things which I think would help cooking contestants be able to produce
more the sort of dishes and feasts they would like to are:

1) List of the foods and amounts that will be available.  This allows people
to really think about what dishes they would like to make.  And also, it's
more realistic, even for siege conditions where the castle is still intact
that the cook(s) would have a very good idea of what is left to work with.

2) Unlimited use of drinkable water.

3) The use of cooking equipment they are familiar with.  (And a chance to
acquire or learn new equipment well in advance in the case of a site which
doesn't or may not if fire conditions are dangerous allow ground fires or
certain types of cooking equipment.)

4) In a competition where there is a surprise ingredient and the contestants
provide all the rest of the ingredients, some clue as to what the ingredient
will be or a list of 5 items from which it will be chosen.  Examples:
a) 4 pounds of meat
b) 3 pounds of fruit
c) 5 pounds of  an unground grain
d) one of the following--a quart of basalmic vinegar, a standard bottle of
red wine, half gallon of sweet apple cider, a quart of dark beer, a quart of
honey
e) 3 pounds each of two different root vegetables

This way it minimizes the expense of what needs to be brought and allows
people to do quite a bit of planning.

5) A place as close as possible for hand, food washing and cookware washing
to reduce time lost to that and risks to food safety.

6) Three to 4 hours to cook.  This allows enough time to make yeast breads,
reasonably good broths, ferment things a bit, and chill things that are
better chilled.

7) Access to plenty of ice or chilling/freezing space.

                        *****
One thing that I'd very much like to see is for  each team to have one or
more scribe-historian(s).  This would be a non cooking member whose job
would be to:
1) Document the planning and the thinking that went into the planning of the
proposed recipes.
2) Collect recipes used(original, translation, redactions), or write down
recipes created on the fly and what recipe it's similar to.
3) Document the process used during the cooking contest--what order were
things done in and why.  What things were changed along the way from the
plans due to unexpected situations?
4) Take pictures or video of ingredients, teams, process, finished dishes.
5) Provide a copy of this to sponsor who will then post it to main and
regional cooks lists.  This would not be judged, but would be for other SCA
cooks to learn from.

I'd hope to see things like:
1) When we found out we had a whole chicken, we decided that since we only
had 2.5 hours, we'd cut it up and cook it fast with the idea that we could
impress with more dishes rather than one center piece roasted chicken.  We
decided to cook it_______ and then cook the skin and bones for broth to use
in ______, _____, and ____.
2) We decided to use our dozen oranges four different ways:
juice in ________ dish
marmelade
candied orange peel
serving containers for the dessert course
3) We had planned to make yeast bread, and instead of it being 90 degrees
like the weather men had predicted the week before, it was only 40 degrees,
so the way we got the bread to rise without accidentally cooking it was
________.
4) Although these 6 ingredients would have been perfect to make _______ we
decided to make ____ and ______ to keep them all coming from the same German
cookbook so we'd get more points for keeping the meal in the same country
and time period.

                    *****

Some themes of contests I think would be fun:

1) All dishes to come from or be plausibly inspired by a particular cookbook
or manuscript.  This might be especially good for a book that has become
available in the last 1-2 years to encourage people to work from it.

2) Frugal siege contest.  You have $X, your herbs/spices/salt/yeast, and
unlimited water.  Search out the most frugal food and cook the biggest meal
you can with what you find.  Bring receipts for food.

3) Same as #2 with a time/place theme.  May want to provide list of
appropriate foods(and allowable substitutes if any such as blueberries for
bilberries) or have teams provide documentation  for foods they are using.
Schedule theme so that foods of that area are in season to reduce costs.
For instance you might do Viking in June when cabbage, onions, radishes,
carrots, turnips, parsnips, beets, strawberries, and cherries are in season,
or in October when all those things are back in season except swap dried
plums, rose hips, and apples for cherries and strawberries.  And if
something like this was posted well in advance, teams could get nuts in the
fall when they were in season, and dry other foods at their most frugal
point to use along with the seasonal foods.

4) Pound Stone Soup
4-5 teams (of 10 people maximum)
3-5 judges
40 feaster, ingredient bringers (with own feast gear)
Cook teams have own spices/herbs/salt, yeast, drinking water, cooking gear,
and fire/stove/oven source.
By 7 pm night before, 40 feasters bring 4-5 pounds of ingredient to central
location.  Each team gets a pound.  Feasters are assigned to bring a
category of food, but no one knows exactly what until 6-7 pm.  Feasters must
bring freshly bought, safely kept chilled or home grown fresh foods.  At 7
pm teams get their food and an extra $10 to buy whatever they want to add to
what they got.
Suggested division of foods:
Grain unground 3 feasters
Grain ground 2 feasters
Meat 5 feasters
Dairy(non cheese) 3 feasters
Cheese 2 feasters
Eggs 1 feaster (dozen per team)
Beans 1 feaster
Fruits, fresh 3 feasters
Fruits, dried, 1 feaster
Root vegetables 4 feasters
Nonroot vegetables 3 feasters
Mushrooms 1 feaster
Condiments ( vinegar, mustard, etc) 3 feasters
Sweetner (sugar, honey) 2 feasters
Fermented beverages 2 feasters
Unfermented beverages 1 feaster
Prepared food (such as olives) 1 feaster
Oil/fat 2 feasters

To deal with the feaster or two who doesn't arrive by 7 pm with their
ingredients....
a) Have a waiting list line where feaster pays $15.
b) Shopper is standing by at grocery store with cell phone.
c) Organizer tells shopper what is missing such as 1 root vegetable and 1
grain, ground.  Then shopper can pick up those two and have them to teams by
8 pm.  And this is a chance to balance out what may be missing.  For example
if root vegetable feasters have brought turnips, carrots, and radishes,
shopper might get onions.

Cooks team then needs to have food ready for judging by 11 am next day in
central cooking/eating area.

After judging, around 12-12:15 pm, and then 40 feasters can eat for 1 to 1.5
hours.  Any remaining food can be divided between teams, swapping as they
like.

5) Pound Stone Soup as in #4 with theme as in #3.

6) A 3-4 course 12 dish feast where teams make dishes from 1 place and era
with each dish having a food/herb that grows wild in north west
Pennsylvania. (Foods not to be picked at Pennsic/event), but brought from
home.

7) A meal where one ingredient is used in every dish in a variety of ways.
Limit to 10-12 dishes.

8) As in #2 but just a meal for the judges in Chef on a Shoestring style
with $30 for ingredients. Besides the usual judging criteria, points for
using one food in multiple ways, and points for using all edible parts in
some way.  Points for choosing a theme and having a meal that all matches
the theme.

9) A year long garden-cook challenge.  Participants are allotted X amount to
buy seeds, and Y amount to buy things they can't or don't want to grow.  I
would suggest $15/$20 for X/Y.  They then prepare a feast for 3 judges and
17 feasters.  If there are multiple teams, each team could have 17 different
feasters. All food must be grown or bought within the $ limits including the
herbs and the spices.  Unlimited use of water.

Sharon
gordonse at one.net

*****************************
>Exactly. Which has me thinking.... what if we were to have a pseudo class
type thingy without the cooking that did exactly this? What if we were to
get a bunch of us cooks together, pull random items out of a hat and then
gather teams of cooks together for a sort of brainstorm session. Would
people be interested in this kind of class? No cooking involved, just idea
generation to get you in the thinking mode that would be required for this.

I think it would be helpful to have a class with a faux siege event where
you give a siege scenario and then have one or more presenters tell how they
would have done the feast, how they would have thought about their
ingredients, and why they would have chosen what they did (have info and
solution prepared ahead of time.).  Then for the second hour, divide the
group into 3-4 groups, give them a second siege scenario and ingredient list
with amounts.  Let each group spend 20 or so minutes coming up with a menu,
perhaps with the all them using copies of the same good historic recipe book
for a focus.  Then let each group spend 2-3 minutes presenting their menu
and how they would use their ingredients.  Then ask some experienced feast
cooks or siege cooks go over the menus and talk about pluses and minuses of
each solution.  Class participants might also be provided with 3-4 solutions
that have been worked out ahead of time with written commentary for the same
siege scenario and ingredients.

I think it would also be helpful about every 4-6 weeks to have a virtual
siege feast challenge like this on the SCA-Cooks list with copies to feast
list, kingdom cooks' lists and local lists.  Let people work on the
challenge for a week or so, post their menus and then a rotating set of
experienced cooks/judges/teachers could provide commentary on what people
came up with for menus as well as what they might do themselves.  I think
it's helpful if the commentators rotate, not only for different perspectives
but also so the most knowlegeable people can participate as well.

Another thing that I find helpful is to give people a list of 5 main
ingredients and tell them to assume that they have yeast, herbs, spices,
salt, and water.  Then ask small groups to brain storm everything (or
everything within a certain frame work of place and century if they are
doing this over time and have more time to look things up) they can think of
to make from the food.  In this case, it's not like siege cookery in that a
particular ingredient gets used up, but they can use the ingredients many
times in different ways.  This really gets the creativity going, and the
groups learn a lot from thinking about the foods in all sorts of ways, and
from seeing how the groups overlap or don't in their dishes.  With a
versatile set of ingredients, it's quite possible to come up with 100-200
different dishes from 5 ingredients.  It is important to keep the group
focused on the 5 ingredients though and not creating 40 kinds of bread, each
using one of the spices, for instance.
Some easy sets of brainstorming ingredients are:
1) Whole chicken with all of its edible organs, 5 pounds of flour, 5 pounds
of onions, 2 pounds carrots, large green cabbage.
2) 3 pounds ham, 2 pounds lentils, 3 pounds rice, 5 pounds apples, 5 pounds
mixed salad greens.
3) 2 pounds sausage, 3 pounds fresh cherries, 5 pounds wheat berries, 2
pounds of leeks, 5 pounds fresh peas in the shell.
4) 5 gallons of milk fresh from the cow, 2 pounds dried figs, 1 gallon apple
cider, 5 pounds flour, 5 pounds spinach.
5) One dozen eggs, 5 pounds flour, 10 pounds grapes,

Some more challenging sets of 5 ingredents are:
1) 3 pounds of a tough cut of beef, 5 pounds of turnips with greens
attached, 3 pounds of beets, 3 pounds of onions, 3 pounds of fresh plums.
2) 3 pounds portobello mushrooms, 3 pounds rice, 2 pounds hard italian
cheese(romano), 3 pounds oranges, 1 pound grape leaves in vinegar.
3) 2 pounds brie, 3 pounds blueberries, 5 pounds artichokes, 2 pounds cured
olives, 2 large loaves honey wheat bread
4) 3 pounds shelled almonds, 2 quarts honey,  5 pounds oats, 5 pounds
grapes, 3 pounds strawberries


*****************************
> I like the concept of virtual siege cookery. It would make a lively
exercise at
> any event or group meeting because you wouldn't have the equipment
constraints,
> just the books, pen, and paper.

***And you could practice and learn the thinking and planning part of it
with less expense as well.

>
> Though, doing a virtual siege online might be fun, too. But the time
> constraints are different, ie. less "thinking on your feet" and more book
and
> collaboration time.

***I see this as learning like you might learn how to be an EMT or a doctor
in the ER--learning from books and good teachers, then virtual patients,
then faux patients, then patients under non crisis conditions, then patients
in crisis conditions.  And at each step, you develop more and different sets
of skills.  In most things I think the best outcomes are often from people
with a great depth and breadth of knowlege, experience, and skill who can
then add that speedy thinking on their feet when needed in crisis
situations.

Sharon
gordonse at one.net