Fw: [spca-wascaerfrig] Alexy, please- was Fw: [Sca-cooks] Beets

[Phlip]

OK, Alexy has straightened up some information about beets, greens vs roots,
in the Domestroi- see below. He's a Russian, in Moscow, with a great
interest in SCA and historical cookery- I've cited him before. With any
luck, we'll be bringing him to Pennsic ;-)

One thing to keep in mind, though, is that the Domestroi is pretty late-
past most of our period- also, that roots tend to be eaten much more in
Northern areas than greens do.

He does, however, include a transliteration of the words for the greens and
the roots, so that in the Russian the two are quite distinct.

Saint Phlip,
CoDoLDS

"When in doubt, heat it up and hit it with a hammer."
 Blacksmith's credo.

 If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it is probably not a
cat.

Never a horse that cain't be rode,
And never a rider who cain't be throwed....

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alexey Kiyaikin aka Posadnik"
To: <spca-wascaerfrig at yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 10:28 AM
Subject: Re: [spca-wascaerfrig] Alexy, please- was Fw: [Sca-cooks] Beets


> Greetings all!
>
> Have been reading only for more than half a year. Got a decent job at
last, and was VERY busy translating in an exhibition management company. Our
major expo of the year closes this evening, so a little free time before
preparations for the next one.
>
>
> > Ene bichizh ogsen baina shuu...
> >
> > Any chance you could get access to a copy of the Domestroi in Russian,
and
> > check it for its comments on beets? We're having a long conversation on
> > whether the beet root or the greens are referenced in various recipes,
and a
> > closer look at the Domestroi might be of some help. If you can't find a
> > copy, we'll try to find you a copy.
>
> The Domostroy really means beet. ROOT. Only root. But the thing with
"root-fruits" is that practically the edible part does not end at ground
level. When (those time "when" started with first roots in June and ended in
about september when all the roots were picked up so no need to economize)
there was the need to use all the edible part of the plant (say, early beet
was used in Borsch almost wholly), they added the stalk. Only the stalk, up
to the point where the leaf starts. The stalk has the same taste as the
root, and contains most of nutrition the root posesses. The "beet greens"
was NEVER considered food, though they have nothing disgusting in taste.
Just no special taste. Grass, that's all. Only Ukrainian Borsch with early
beets requires Botva (greens) of beets added, though several times I met the
reminder that only stalks are needed. My mom used the whole tops with
leaves, no special taste. but we are still alive. :-)
>
> And when we look at other "root-fruits", we see a good example with
turnips. The stalk also tastes like the root, I used to add it to stews,
same thing - the down part tastes like the root, the upper part with leaves
taste empty.
>
> Also, there's a very popular classical tale "A man and a Bear", in which
the bear in spring demanded to give him a half of all crops. So, the man
promised to give him the roots (i.e. the underground half), and sowed wheat.
The following year the bear came again and said he was no fool, and would
take tops that time. The man agreed and sowed beets, fooling the bear for
another time.
>
> Ergo:
> beets is really roots only. Only in hungry years (but for Russia that
meant about every second year or two years of the three) they could eat beet
stalks along with the root. That does not apply to Borsch that traditionally
required some tops along with the beet root. Though, other plants, having
same edible parts (radish and turnip stalks are recommended for spring
salads in modern cookbooks), were never used in traditional food other than
"hungry year dishes" along with nettle, goose-foot, etc. As Domostroy never
considered a poor family, it could not in the least mean beet "greens".
>
>
> > > So far as Domostroi is concerned, the passage doesn't specify beet
> > > root. The relevant bit is "Pickle cabbages, beets, and cucumbers in
> > > the fall." Cabbages are greens, so although it's certainly possible
> > > that what are being pickled are the roots of the beets, It could also
> > > be the last of the greens.
>
> The Ukrainian dish - pickled beetROOTS - requires having beet roots, not
greens. This is traditionally the source of beet for Borsch, as many
cookbooks mention. If the beet is pickled, no vinegar to save the red colour
of the soup is needed. Only the roots are pickled. I read several recipes,
they were the same for at least the last several centuries.
>
>
> > >
> > > On the other hand, the text refers several times to "beet greens" but
> > > speaks of pickling beets. That might be a deliberate difference--it
> > > would be interesting to have someone who reads Russian check the
> > > original.
>
> When the text speaks of greens, it speaks about greens. Botva, in Russian.
When the text means beetroot, it says beets, Svekla. All the time they mean
something other than the root, they directly say it, and never mean tops
using the general word "beet".
>
>
> Though, I'll bring my copy of Domostroy to the computer while working and
answering my mail tomorrow, so you will have some citing from a Russian
edition.
>
> Bye, Alex.
>