[Sca-cooks] Pillsbury pie crusts

[Daniel Myers]

On Nov 4, 2004, at 11:48 AM, Chris Stanifer wrote:

> Another reason you may wish to make 'pie crusts' by hand for period 
> feasts is that there appears
> to be a bit of evidence that the 'pie crusts' used in many of the 
> extant recipes were not all that
> flaky or tender to begin with.  It all depends on how authentic you 
> want to be.  A crust used to
> encase a rabbit (Hare Pie???), and take the shape of the original 
> creature would need to be
> sturdy.  A modern flaky pie crust may well crumble under its own 
> weight if used in this manner.

Having done a good amount of research and experimentation on pie 
crusts, I'm inclined to disagree.  There are many paintings from just 
after period of standing crust pies where it can clearly be seen that 
the walls are less than a quarter of an inch thick.  I've also made a 
number of dishes using standard pie crust recipes that are sculpted and 
stand up quite well on their own (see the pics at the URLs below).  
None of them had a tendency to crumble.  As long as there's something 
that the crust is wrapped around, then it has plenty of support.

	"Still-life with Turkey-Pie" (detail), Pieter Claesz, c. 1630
	http://www.medievalcookery.com/images/standing1.jpg

	"Breakfast Table with Blackberry Pie" (detail), Willem Claesz Heda 
(1631)
	http://www.medievalcookery.com/images/standing4.jpg

Some of my own experiments:
	A Dish of Artichokes  -  
http://www.medievalcookery.com/images/artichoke.jpg
	A chicken pie shaped like a fish  -  
http://www.medievalcookery.com/images/fish.jpg

	Standing crust experiment - 
http://www.medievalcookery.com/images/crust.jpg
       (the final version of this one was larger and thinner)


Also see the painting "Kitchen" (Vincenzo Campi, 1580s) in which there 
is a woman rolling out a thin top crust for a double crust pie in a 
modern-shaped pie pan.

	http://www.wga.hu/art/c/campi/vincenzo/2kitchen.jpg

> There are those, like myself, who believe that some of these crusts 
> were not even meant to be
> eaten, but rather acted as sturdy little pastry ovens to help keep the 
> contents moist and
> protected from excessive heat.  When the dish was served, the crust 
> was cut away and discarded.

While some standing crusts may have been used as a preservation method 
and were not intended to be eaten, this is certainly not the case for 
all crusts, as evidenced by the following (emphasis added):

"To make Paste, and to raise Coffins. Take fine flower, and lay it on a 
boord, and take a certaine of yolkes of Egges as your quantitie of 
flower is, then take a certaine of Butter and water, and boil them 
together, but ye must take heed ye put not too many yolks of Egges, *** 
for if you doe, it will make it drie and not pleasant in eating ***: 
and yee must take heed ye put not in too much Butter for if you doe, it 
will make it so fine and short that you cannot raise. And this paste is 
good to raise all manner of Coffins: Likewise if ye bake Venison, bake 
it in the paste above named. "

Source [The Good Huswifes Handmaide for the Kitchen, Stuart Peachey 
(ed.), c. 1588]

- Doc


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