[Sca-cooks] A question about knives

[marilyn traber 011221]

> I have only in the last few months been washing
> the old knives in the dishwasher, not because
> I wish to ruin them but because I had noticed
> that we had a large amount of knives sitting
> [sometimes for days] on the counter waiting to
> be hand washed.  I felt it would be better for
> the knives to be washed quicker than to leave
> them dirty for days before washing. 

It's not better- you're ruining the steel. The temperatures alone are enough, 
in some dishwashers, to ruin the temper of the knives. The "temper" is the 
balance of hardness and softness that leaves you with a knife that will hold 
an edge for a long time- if a blade is super hard, it's liable to break and 
chip, if it's super soft, it won't hold an edge. The difference is caused by 
developing the chrystalline structure of the blades, and that is done 
strictly with heat.

The other thing you're doing with those poor knives, by exposing them to 
dishwashing soap is exposing them to an alkaline environment, which is eating 
the edge. If you MUST have knives that go in the dishwasher, go out and get a 
cheapy set and use them, and put the older knives up, only using them when 
you know you can wash them properly.

> As for the Flint knives, I have looked at them
> again and they call themselves Flint Vanadium.
> Whether this is high carbon or not, I don't know.
> But the dark stains are only on the chef knives
> and not on the bread knife, the cutting knife,
> or the paring/utility knives. And the stains
> pre-date my putting them in the dishwasher. 
> Interestingly enough, the chef knives are the 
> only ones that rust, which makes me believe that
> the carbon is wearing through the vanadium

Huette, the carbon isn't wearing through the vanadium- it can't, any more 
than you can mix beef bouillion and chicken bouillion in a soup, and pick out 
the beef areas from the chicken areas. What you have, apparently, is a set of 
knives some of which are 1st generation stainless steel, and some of which 
are (relatively) high carbon steel. It is the nature of carbon steel knives 
to get stained with use- the only thing you can do to prevent it is to not 
use them, or to polish them up so the stains vanish, and since you're 
removing steel from them every time you polish them, eventually you're going 
to have them so thin that they're useless.

Vanadium is an element that, when alloyed with steel, gives it certain 
qualities of toughness that are very valuable, but when you alloy a steel, 
you're just mixing the element into the steel itself- it's not like plating, 
where you're just applying a layer of a second metal over the first metal.

If I were you, I'd value the stained knives, and their stains, as valuable 
servants who are showing their wear and the many meals they've helped 
prepare, and retire them unless you want to use them for a special meal, 
where you can clean them properly. As for the others in the set, continue to 
use them, as long as they're not being affected by the dishwasher- otherwise, 
retire them as well.

And, since you don't understand good knives, save yourself a lot of 
aggravation, and just buy cheapies, made of stainless steel. If they go bad, 
you can throw them away without a second thought.

Phlip

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