[Sca-cooks] Re: poor widow

Thu Apr 21 13:38:51 PDT 2005

I know of the practice.  not much more than that.  Only applied if the individual had reached a set status, Journeyman I think, in most cases, some may have been Master level only.  Apprentice level were out of luck.

Was the precursor to the labor union widow and orphans funds of the 19th and 20th centuries.

joy
Radei
----- Original Message -----
From: ysabeau <ysabeau at mail.ev1.net>
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Re: poor widow 
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 09:20:02 -0500

> 
> On a slightly different tangent, I was surprised to find that
> there was a system set up in the guilds to take care of widows.
> One of the streets I saw, I think in Hamburg, was a series of
> houses that were used for the widows of a certain type of guild. I
> kept meaning to go back and get more information on it because I
> think that was the pre-cursor for social security ~grin~. Has
> anyone else heard of this? I always thought that widows were left
> to fend for themselves until this tour.
> 
> Ysabeau
> 
> ---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
> From: el2iot2 at mail.com
> Reply-To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
> Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 07:03:58 -0600
> 
> > Ah, but you see.  you have made my point.  Living in sin, did 
> > happen.  And Handfasting was far less costly,
> though maybe not condoned by the church.
> >
> > The youngest son of a poor family may be more inclined to move to
> Mother-in-Laws house as a Way to inherit.
> >
> > Orphanages, even in period did place children with Family if they
> could.  but the child of a poor family with no inheritance would
> not likely be welcomed by more distant<blood> relations, unless
> they had some value as labor or else.  Are always orphans of only
> child surviving, with no other relatives.  There were the
> equivalent of "Orphan Trains" even in period.  Farm labour was
> always in demand, and "street urchins"<begger children living on
> the streets> are mentioned in Shakespeare.
> >
> > The Church<Orphanage or Pristhood> or find someone to take you
> in, or live on the street. Happened then, happens now.
> >
> > and an extra set of hands in the garden or even with chores frees
> up time for those able to make money.  gardening done by the
> helper give the daughters time to take in laundry, or other work
> for profit. or an extra set of hands in the garden can increase
> your yeild and you can then trade for what you do not have, or
> sell at the town market day, or even from the yard itself.  Just
> because no-one has any money does not mean they can not improve
> thier quality of life, Barter is as old as time.  and still
> lives.
> >
> > Even in a fudal system, there are lower and middle class.
> although middle class tended to be merchants.  The mideaivel mind
> is still a human mind and we all have similar thought
> patterns<whether 100,000 years ago or next week>.  Tech changes,
> government forms change, education changes, but the human mind is
> still the same.
> >
> > The Mayflower refugees<although out of period, it is close enough
> to show my point>, were not nobles.  nor were they very wealthy.
> yet the cost of passage and minimum supplies was about $3000 per
> person by modern standards<I may have the number off a bit<working
> from memory>.
> >
> > Giles Rickard who followed his daughter over a few years later<
> 1648 I think, again memory><My family, so I have researched this>
> was a man of some means, but not wealthy.  Yet he brought himself,
> judith(his wife), 2 sons, 1 daughter, 1 maid and a boy.  niether
> the maid nor the boy were related to him.
> >
> > you see my point.  Did Happen, does Happen.  if happened in 17th
> century, probably had something of a similar kind earlier, change
> was much slower then.
> >
> > the modern world is different, but not THAT different.  slavery
> and indentures are both pre-roman to Modern, and remained in
> practice well into the 19th century<slavery until 1850's, westward
> bound orphan trains run at this time also>.
> >
> > to many similar things close to period, and pre-period to believe
> that nothing like this happened during period.
> >
> > again, just my 2 cents
> >
> > Joy
> > Radei   ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Lonnie D. Harvel" <ldh at ece.gatech.edu>
> > To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
> > Subject: Re: poor widow was:[Sca-cooks] Rotten meat and spices...
> > Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 10:28:34 -0400
> >
> >>
> >> Laura C. Minnick wrote:
> >>
> >> > Perhaps you misunderstood me. There is more to marriage then
> than
> >> > there often is now. When we say that a medieval girl didn't
> have
> >> > enough money to marry, it isn't just dowry. There is a fee
> called
> >> > merchet, that must be paid to the lord when a peasant woman > 
> >> marries. If she marries a man from another area, the couple
> must
> >> > come up with yet more money, to pay a fee called foremariage > 
> >> (essentially a payment to the woman's lord, as compensation
> for
> >> > the loss of her labor when she moves to her husband's
> village).
> >>
> >> Don't forget the price paid to the priest for the marriage
> ceremony
> >> and such. Without paying the priest, you weren't married. Here
> is a
> >> celtic Psalm from the period:
> >>
> >> <>A wedding is a costly business.
> >> Money is needed for the priest
> >>     and his clerk.
> >> Money is needed for the hire
> >>     of the church
> >> Money is needed to feed the guests.
> >> Money is needed for robes to wear.
> >> Love by contrast is entirely free.
> >> Free are the smiles that play
> >>     on the lips;
> >> Free are the kisses stolen
> >>     by moonlight;
> >> Free are the words whispered
> >>     at midnight
> >> Free are the strolls hand in hand
> >>     through the wood.
> >> We are rich in love but poor in money.
> >> The priests say our union is sinful.
> >> May god, who blesses us, forgive.
> >>
> >>
> >> Pax,
> >> Aoghann
> >> _______________________________________________
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> >> Sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
> >> http://www.ansteorra.org/mailman/listinfo/sca-cooks
> >
> >
> >
> > joy
> >
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> 
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joy

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