[Sca-cooks] 14th c Italian cookbook , answers

[Ariane Helou]

Hi everyone,

Thanks so much for your responses!  They have been very elucidating.  I'll 
try to reply to all the points in one message:

First of all, thanks especially to Helewyse and Brighid for the solution to 
the "senacione" puzzle.  Obviously, "senecio" was the one orthographic 
variation I didn't think to try... :-)  The real question is (since I don't 
expect to find groundsel easily), what sort of plant would be a good 
substitute?  (I don't suppose any of you have ever tasted the 
stuff?)  Groundsel looks a little like dandelion, even though they don't 
seem to be related, so I wonder if dandelion greens would work in those 
recipes -- which simply call for the "senacioni" to be boiled, minced, and 
cooked with meat or onions, very similar to the recipes for spinach, beet 
and mustard greens in this same collection.

On the "amido" issue, thanks to Adamantius for pointing out that starch 
could be obtained in lump form; that was something that would never have 
occurred to me. But it totally makes sense, if "mondato" refers to cleaning 
off the unprocessed lump, which then has to be ground or crushed into fine 
powder before cooking.  I don't have a copy of Santich's book, but I'm 
afraid I have to disagree with her interpretation of "amido" as an error 
for almond ("amandole" or "mandole"), for several reasons -- not simply 
because the words themselves are so different, but also because "amido" 
shows up in other recipes as a thickening agent, clearly not accidentally, 
and because it appears twice in a single recipe.  (So far the other scribal 
errors I've picked up on have been orthographically minor and contextually 
obvious -- for example, "aglio" [garlic] for "oglio" [oil]...)

Helewyse wrote:
>The recipe for chickens with lemon says this "pesitisi l'amido non mondo e 
>distemperesi col brodo de la carne del porco, e colisi" or grind unpeeled 
>amido and temper it (blend it) with pork broth and strain it. ... So one 
>could postulate that it's use here means that you are taking whole wheat 
>berries (wheat rather than spelt was cultivated in Italy by this point in 
>time), grinding them in the mortar, extracting the starch from them with 
>broth and using this starch to thicken the broth.

Immediately after this, the recipe states, "E se non avessi amido, spessisi 
il brodo colle tuorla d'ova" ("and if you don't have starch, thicken the 
broth with egg yolks"), which seems more like the type of smooth thickening 
you get from starch or flour than from something as coarse and grainy as 
ground almonds.  Seems superficial, but think about it: doesn't the 
egg-for-starch substitution seem a little more predictable and expected 
than an egg-for-nuts substitution?  So when I make the recipe 'for real,' 
I'll probably use wheat starch, or rice flour again if the former can't be 
found.

As for trading translations for proofreading: I'm definitely interested!  I 
think that's a wonderful idea.  I am happy to proofread anything that's 
been translated from Italian, French, Latin (I read all three with 
more-or-less equal proficiency), or dialects thereof.  (I also read ancient 
Greek, although I don't suppose that's of much use in this context. ;-)  I 
would also love to have others take a glance at my work.  However, while I 
can easily send my translation to anyone willing to tackle it, I won't be 
able to read anyone else's work for another few weeks, until I'm done 
writing those darn term papers.  But anytime after June 1, I'm game.

And finally, as for webbing my translation: yeah, I'd love to!  That hadn't 
really occurred to me, since I was just doing it for my own quick-and-easy 
reference, but I love to share recipes, so, yeah.  Plus I translate just 
about everything I get my hands on, and it would be nice to be able to put 
all of it in a readily accessible place...  I'm completely inept when it 
comes to things technological, though; and while I could probably muddle my 
way through the assembly of a website, it's also a project that'll have to 
wait for summer vacation, or even after.  But if public access is a 
possibility, then I will probably be asking for help on several more 
textual questions, since my current version, with indecipherable notes to 
myself, will probably befuddle even the most hardened reader of problematic 
manuscripts.

Thanks again! :-)


Vittoria