[Sca-cooks] Ye old artichoke question (was new world foods; old world names)

[Terry Decker]

Right.  Which means artichokes are probably accurate for a Levantine event 
whether or not the Romans or the Arabs spread them around.

While Northern Italy might not take to the Arab artichoke, what if the 
Italian artichoke were already there?  While Wright makes a decent case and 
his essay is easy to find, the seminal works for the Roman artichoke are old 
and are difficult to locate.  I think I'd like to see why the consensus is 
for a Roman artichoke.

Bear

> <snip>Artichokes are an open question.  Clifford Wright makes a case for
> artichokes not being known until very late and that the plant being
> referenced is the cardoon.
> <snip>
> Bear
> ========================================================================================
> I just re-read Mr. Wright's 1996 essay; his argument was just not that the 
> artichoke was known until very late in period, but that the ancient Greeks 
> and Romans were probably referencing cardoons. He does seem to agree that 
> the Arabs introduced the cultivated artichoke in Italy and in Spain. One 
> of the Arabic words for the globe artichoke, kharshuf, is reminiscent of 
> the Italian carciofi. His essay did make mention of artichokes being grown 
> in the gardens of Norman Sicily.
>
> In reading more of the history of Sicily and southern Italy, I am not 
> surprised at all that it took awhile for the artichoke to make its way 
> north to Tuscany. There still is cultural bias in the north of Italy 
> against the Arabs and anyone generally seen as having Arab blood 
> (Sicilians); I can't imagine taking a plant so associated with the Arabs 
> and trying to introduce it any earlier than the 1500s would have been 
> overwhelmingly successful.
>
> Gianotta