[Sca-cooks] fashion and spices (was Grains of Paradise)
Suey
lordhunt at gmail.com
Fri Dec 29 16:37:20 PST 2006
Regina suggested:
"Wars in Africa which cut the trade routes so thoroughly and so long
that people got out of the habit of using them."
Please date and define African geographical areas concerning trade
route reductions of grains of paradise. I study 15th century Spanish
history up to 1474 in particular. All other personal knowledge is from
dabbling. I, therefore, am not cognizant of African affairs affecting
African spice trade after that period.
I am well aware of the fact that Protestants prohibited spices in
England with Queen Elizabeth I in the 16th Century as that was an
anti-Roman Catholic measure. 'The Age of Discovery', on the other hand,
to my knowledge was aimed at developing spice routes to counter prices
of the Muslims who controlled the Silk Route. Perhaps Queen Bessy
preferred ruining her teeth with honey (as sugar was so scarce it used
primarily as medicine in cold England.) and sending all good English
colonists to spread the word of her God (to fatten her honey comb)
without pepper pots to spice route development in accordance with the
puritan movement.
As far as I can see the Dutch heavily contributed to economic areas
in demand such as African slave trade as well as spices and other
products. The Portuguese too were as fundamental in slave trade and
spice trade at reduced prices thanks to their domains in India and
Africa. Of course one cannot forget Italian participation as well as
those representing other European countries.
The Spaniards dominated slave trade with their center in Las Palmas
and competed with the Portuguese in African spice trade thanks to their
territories in Africa but within 200 years after the discovery of
Central and South America they learned how to use American agricultural
produces and busily exported pepper products, sugar and chocolate among
others to Europe.
Although I have no problem buying grains of paradise today it
appears that they may have been unduly neglected in many regions of the
world as victims of price wars as members of the pepper family in
particular and for religious reasons in some areas.
Susan
And you could flaunt
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. fashion and spices (was Grains of Paradise) (Stefan li Rous)
> 2. rommegrot? (Stefan li Rous)
> 3. Re: rommegrot? (Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius)
> 4. Re: rommegrot? (Sue Clemenger)
> 5. Re: rommegrot? (Johnna Holloway)
> 6. Re: ordering pottery by mail (Michael Gunter)
> 7. Re: ordering pottery by mail (Elaine Koogler)
> 8. Pottery Carry System (Daniel Phelps)
> 9. Santa bring any cool cooking stuff? (Michael Gunter)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2006 20:26:14 -0600
> From: Stefan li Rous <StefanliRous at austin.rr.com>
> Subject: [Sca-cooks] fashion and spices (was Grains of Paradise)
> To: SCA-Cooks maillist SCA-Cooks <SCA-Cooks at Ansteorra.org>
> Message-ID: <1EFF8A4F-B82F-4E20-8666-4B1713F3EA1C at austin.rr.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
>
> Regina suggested:
> <<< I've always wondered if we don't see the dropping off of the
> use of Grains
> of Paradise because of this very thing. Wars in Africa which cut the
> trade
> routes so thoroughly and so long that people got out of the habit of
> using
> them. Real Pepper began to be available at a semi-reasonable price
> so that
> by the time Grains of Paradise came back there wasn't a market for
> them. >>>
>
> I think it might be exactly the opposite of this.
>
> The taste of spices was appreciated, but they were also sought after
> and used because they were rare and exotic and if you had money and
> power you could have them and others couldn't. And you could flaunt
> this.
>
> I don't have the timelines in front of me, but I assume others such
> as Bear do or can develop them. Towards the end of our period various
> spices became more available because of new trade routes, changing
> commercial situations and military alliances. The price then fell on
> those spices and they lost some of their exoticness and uniqueness.
> The end of our period is also when there was a big change in the use
> of spices in food and how they were used. I don't think these are
> unrelated. Of course this didn't happen suddenly nor consistently
> across all spices. Some hung on to their allure longer because they
> were rarer longer. Others because a higher portion of their appeal
> was due to taste rather than their exoticness.
>
> To try to draw some modern parallels:
>
> How many people are buying the latest game machine, xbox,
> Playstation3 etc. because they just have to have that increased
> computing power or the new games? Many of those games have very few
> games for them when they first come out. How many kids really need
> that latest techno toy, such as Tickle Me, Elmo? and how many are
> being bought by parents as status symbols.
>
> Some people are buying those tech toys because when they are in
> limited supply they can turn around and sell them on ebay for a tidy
> profit. Hmmm, you don't think we can find period equivalents of that,
> do you?
>
> Stefan
> --------
> THLord Stefan li Rous Barony of Bryn Gwlad Kingdom of Ansteorra
> Mark S. Harris Austin, Texas
> StefanliRous at austin.rr.com
> **** See Stefan's Florilegium files at: http://www.florilegium.org ****
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 01:40:20 -0600
> From: Stefan li Rous <stefanlirous at austin.rr.com>
> Subject: [Sca-cooks] rommegrot?
> To: SCA-Cooks maillist SCA-Cooks <SCA-Cooks at Ansteorra.org>
> Message-ID: <3633DBBA-1343-42AC-8CA6-418E1155E199 at austin.rr.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
>
> Maire commented:
> <<< Hi, Malkin...I dug through my cookbook shelves, and came up with
> exactly one recipe for lefse. It doesn't give any quantities,
>
> Now, if you'd needed recipes for rommegrot...those, I have. ;o) >>>
>
> Another unknown/unusual item? What's "rommegrot"?
>
> Thanks,
> Stefan
> --------
> THLord Stefan li Rous Barony of Bryn Gwlad Kingdom of Ansteorra
> Mark S. Harris Austin, Texas
> StefanliRous at austin.rr.com
> **** See Stefan's Florilegium files at: http://www.florilegium.org ****
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 08:21:56 -0500
> From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius" <adamantius1 at verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] rommegrot?
> To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
> Message-ID: <606E881D-4D32-414E-8369-D947241058D2 at verizon.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
>
>
> On Dec 29, 2006, at 2:40 AM, Stefan li Rous wrote:
>
>
>> Maire commented:
>> <<< Hi, Malkin...I dug through my cookbook shelves, and came up with
>> exactly one recipe for lefse. It doesn't give any quantities,
>>
>> Now, if you'd needed recipes for rommegrot...those, I have. ;o) >>>
>>
>> Another unknown/unusual item? What's "rommegrot"?
>>
>
> I'm pretty sure we've talked about it here before. IIRC, it's a warm
> junket/pudding made from sour cream thickened and stabilized with
> flour. Another Scandinavian Christmas dish... you serve it with
> berries and sugar sprinkled on top, as I recall.
>
> Adamantius
>
>
>
>
> "S'ils n'ont pas de pain, vous fait-on dire, qu'ils mangent de la
> brioche!" / "If there's no bread to be had, one has to say, let them
> eat cake!"
> -- attributed to an unnamed noblewoman by Jean-Jacques Rousseau,
> "Confessions", 1782
>
> "Why don't they get new jobs if they're unhappy -- or go on Prozac?"
> -- Susan Sheybani, assistant to Bush campaign spokesman Terry
> Holt, 07/29/04
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 07:30:01 -0700
> From: "Sue Clemenger" <mooncat at in-tch.com>
> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] rommegrot?
> To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
> Message-ID: <001201c72b55$d3932980$cfbfa6d8 at pavilion>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius" <adamantius1 at verizon.net>
> To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
> Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 6:21 AM
> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] rommegrot?
>
>
>
>> On Dec 29, 2006, at 2:40 AM, Stefan li Rous wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Maire commented:
>>> <<< Hi, Malkin...I dug through my cookbook shelves, and came up with
>>> exactly one recipe for lefse. It doesn't give any quantities,
>>>
>>> Now, if you'd needed recipes for rommegrot...those, I have. ;o) >>>
>>>
>>> Another unknown/unusual item? What's "rommegrot"?
>>>
>> I'm pretty sure we've talked about it here before. IIRC, it's a warm
>> junket/pudding made from sour cream thickened and stabilized with
>> flour. Another Scandinavian Christmas dish... you serve it with
>> berries and sugar sprinkled on top, as I recall.
>>
>> Adamantius
>>
>
>
> I don't know if we have, at least not for a while. It's a traditional
> porridge, according to the recipes I consulted when wanting to make it for a
> friend. Usually made with some sort of very rich milk product and flour,
> and often simmered for a long time until it achieves the proper consistency.
> I found all kinds of instructions on simmering it until the butter separates
> out, etc. I played with a couple of different recipes, choosing the more
> accessible ones, this summer, and I must say, I don't really know what the
> fuss is all about. My friend was ecstatic, since it was for her birthday.
> Must just be one of those things. ('Course, I'm not overly fond of lefse,
> either, so maybe I lack the proper genetic background.) The sour cream
> version had a nice tang to it, but the straight-cream version was deemed
> just a bit better. They both reminded me very much of really, really smooth
> cream of wheat.
> I'm appending the three recipes I saved, below.
> --Maire
>
> Rommegrot
>
> 1 pt. thick whipping cream
> 1/2 c. flour
> 1 c. boiling milk
> 1 Tbsp. sugar
> 1/2 tsp. salt
>
> Boil cream for 20 minutes. Add flour. Continue stirring until butter
> separates from cream. Drain off butter. Add boiled, hot milk gradually,
> stirring to keep smooth. Cook another 10 minutes. Add salt and sugar. Serve
> warm in bowl. Sprinkle with cinnamon, sugar and butter.
>
> >From the Fruits of the Spirit (1875-2000) Kensington Covenant Church
> Cookbook.
>
>
> Title: Rommegrot--Norwegian Christmas Pudding
> Yield: 4 Servings
>
> Ingredients
>
> 2 pt sour cream, preferably the
> -richest; (with the highest fat content?)
> 11-12 tbsp. all-purpose flour
> -to thicken
> 2-3 c hot milk
> 1/2 tsp. salt or to taste
> 1 tsp. sugar or to taste
>
> Instructions
>
> Garnishes:
>
> 1 x melted butter
> 1 x sugar
> 1 x ground cinnamon
>
> Place the sour cream in a heavy-bottomed saucepan and bring to a
> simmer over medium heat, stirring constantly. Turn down heat and allow to
> barely simmer for 1 hour, uncovered, to reduce slightly. It must not
> boil. Use a heat diffuser for this process.
> Using a flour sifter or strainer, slowly add enough flour to
> thicken the cream. I use about 11-12 Tbsp. for a very thick pudding.
> Using a wire whisk, whip in the flour 1 Tbsp. at a time. The cream will
> thicken and start to pull away from the sides of the pan. If the sour
> cream is very rich, the butter will now begin to form and rise tot he top.
> Remove this with a spoon and set it aside. Stir in enough hot milk to
> obtain a porridge-like consistency. Add sugar and salt to taste. Serve
> in bowls with melted butter, sugar, and cinnamon on top.
> Serves 8-10
>
>
> NORWEGIAN ROMMEGROT
>
> 1 qt. heavy cream
> 1 qt. rich milk
> 1 c. flour
> 1/2 tsp. salt
> 2 tbsp. sugar
> Cinnamon and sugar
>
> Bring cream to a boil and cook slowly for 15 to 20 minutes, stirring almost
> constantly. A wooden spoon is best to use. Sift flour in slowly and continue
> stirring until butter forms on top. Skim it off and save to use later. Add
> scalded milk; it may not take the entire amount of milk. If it gets too
> thin, add a little more flour. Add sugar and salt. Serve warm in a bowl with
> a little melted butter, cinnamon and sugar on top
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 12:43:43 -0500
> From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] rommegrot?
> To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
> Message-ID: <459553CF.6090405 at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> G. Tacitus Adamantius wrote:
>
>> I'm pretty sure we've talked about it here before.
>>
> It would really be nice to have those archives back.
>
> Johnnae
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 12:17:28 -0600
> From: "Michael Gunter" <countgunthar at hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] ordering pottery by mail
> To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> Message-ID: <BAY121-F232A313CA5CEB88AE36F4DFC60 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
>
>
>> All I can say is that Master Hroar, my wonderful hubby-snugglekins, does an
>> extraordinary job of packing his pottery for shipping. He is starting to
>> get
>> more and more orders. Yea! Not a piece broken. His last shipment of four
>> mugs cost about $15 dollars to ship.
>>
>
>
>> Huette, Hroar's bride.
>>
>
> I got Elizabeth the gorgeous Ave Maria plate from
> www.historicenterprises.com
> and it came well packed in bubble wrap and newspaper. No problems at all.
>
> We need to figure out some kind of easy protective carry system for our
> feast get to prevent it from getting chipped up. All of mine is probably six
> years old and it is starting to look it.
>
> Gunthar
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Experience the magic of the holidays. Talk to Santa on Messenger.
> http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme0080000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/santabot/default.aspx?locale=en-us
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 13:22:54 -0500
> From: "Elaine Koogler" <kiridono at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] ordering pottery by mail
> To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
> Message-ID:
> <c8c0c5d20612291022r2c0d2757pe786706847769fa1 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> There are several things you can do. I find the most efficient is using
> bubble-wrap "bags". I take bubble wrap, cut a large enough piece to wrap
> around whatever item I am packing. I then seal the edges together to make
> an envelope with a small flap. This usually protects most breakables (and
> other items that could be scratched) quite well. Bed liners (from a drug or
> medical supply store) also work very well. Make sure that you stash them in
> a hard-sided basket or box for travel.
>
> Kiri
>
> On 12/29/06, Michael Gunter <countgunthar at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> All I can say is that Master Hroar, my wonderful hubby-snugglekins, does
>>>
>> an
>>
>>> extraordinary job of packing his pottery for shipping. He is starting to
>>> get
>>> more and more orders. Yea! Not a piece broken. His last shipment of
>>>
>> four
>>
>>> mugs cost about $15 dollars to ship.
>>>
>>> Huette, Hroar's bride.
>>>
>> I got Elizabeth the gorgeous Ave Maria plate from
>> www.historicenterprises.com
>> and it came well packed in bubble wrap and newspaper. No problems at all.
>>
>> We need to figure out some kind of easy protective carry system for our
>> feast get to prevent it from getting chipped up. All of mine is probably
>> six
>> years old and it is starting to look it.
>>
>> Gunthar
>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> Experience the magic of the holidays. Talk to Santa on Messenger.
>>
>> http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme0080000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/santabot/default.aspx?locale=en-us
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 13:27:32 -0500
> From: "Daniel Phelps" <phelpsd at gate.net>
> Subject: [Sca-cooks] Pottery Carry System
> To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
> Message-ID: <00c201c72b77$02492880$305aeb04 at DanElizabeth>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Was written:
>
> We need to figure out some kind of easy protective carry system for our
> feast get to prevent it from getting chipped up. All of mine is probably six
> years old and it is starting to look it.
>
> Well I purchased one of those quilted zipper top china three container
> storage systems. I only use the large cylinder and the small one but not
> the rectangular one. Was rather cheap. I pad between plates and bowls and
> have wooden trencher plates that I place at the bottom and top of each
> cylinder. Need to do something for glass ware.
>
> Daniel
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 12:30:51 -0600
> From: "Michael Gunter" <countgunthar at hotmail.com>
> Subject: [Sca-cooks] Santa bring any cool cooking stuff?
> To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> Message-ID: <BAY121-F218B613758EDB81D9C79BEDFC60 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
>
> Did Santa bring anything cool for Christmas?
>
> I got Elizabeth a Le Cruset soup pot with steel ladle and
> covered soup bowls.
>
> She got me a vaccuum FoodSaver! Woot!
> And then her folks gave me a meat grinding attachment
> for my Kitchenaid.
>
> I've been having fun with them.
>
> So....anything good for you guys?
>
> Gunthar
>
> _________________________________________________________________
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>
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