[Sca-cooks] sops

[Tom Vincent]

Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius wrote:
> On Jun 5, 2006, at 4:53 PM, <tom.vincent at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>   
>> I wasn't bitten and etymology is only important if the definition  
>> was static.  Clearly it wasn't and still isn't.
>>     
>
> You don't find a similarity in well over 90% of the usages cited?
>   
D:  Sure!  Many of the same ingredients, definitely.  Many of the same 
steps, definitely.  I see a group of recipes that are common and some 
refer to 'sops' as the bread and some refer to the bread as an 
ingredient and 'sop' as the final combined dish.  I wouldn't expect 
recipes over a broad range of time & location to mirror each other.  I 
guess I just don't see the problem with *both* definitions co-existing.
>   
>> The fact that the different recipes have two different definitions  
>> of 'sops' but very similar ingredients...maybe some of the later  
>> ones came from some of the earlier ones?
>>     
>
> Maybe I'm receiving the list out of sync or incompletely, but so far  
> I've seen a total of _one_ recipe that doesn't call for toast or  
> other bread, and it hasn't been ruled out that that dish was not  
> served with toasts, given the context and even other sop recipes in  
> the same source.
>   
D:  Sounds reasonable to me!
>> It really is okay for a word to have multiple definitions, multiple  
>> contexts, a noun at one time, a verb at another.
>>     
>
> It's okay if it's true. When I last checked this conversation, we  
> were discussing its usage as two different nouns.
>   
D:  And, again, I don't see that they can't co-exist.  How about 
'linen', which can be the fabric or can be an object sometimes made of 
linen and sometimes made of non-linen?  Or 'dance', which can be an 
event filled with dances or a particular set of movements or the 
instructions to a set of movements or a style of a set of movements?
>   
>> I think it's really educational and interesting to view 8 different  
>> recipes showing so many similarities and a few differences from  
>> such a broad spectrum in time and distance.
>>     
>
> Me, too. My intention was to quickly and loosely categorize/identify  
> them according to the greatest common denominator, not to look at  
> that common denominator and rule it out as significant.
>   
D:  Okay.  I look for patterns rather than exceptions.  It certainly 
appears that 'sops' in many recipes refers to the bread soaked by the 
other ingredients and in others as the entire dish which most often 
contains bread.
>   
>> This'll blow your mind as my favorite example of extreme word  
>> evolution:  In the 17th century, 'maggot' meant a fancy or delight.
>>     
>
> Interesting, but what's your point? A simplified version of that in  
> the subject at hand would be something like, sop (n), a dish of broth  
> or other liquid poured over bread, => sop, (v), the act of soaking  
> that liquid into that bread, and by extension, other types of  
> soaking, => soup (n), a sop-like pottage that may or may not contain  
> bread in the bowl, => souper, (v), or sup (v) to make and/or eat such  
> a dish, generally in the evening, with a pottage and, generally, the  
> stale remains of the morning's bread, => supper (n), a relatively  
> insubstantial evening meal often featuring such a dish...
>   
D:  Just, to quote, "that words change meaning", said the gay man as he 
picked up his faggot for the night. :)
> Adamantius
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>   

-- 
***********
Tom Vincent
***********
The new Tom Hanks film is based on a book full of lies, deceit & corruption.  
It's also based on Dan Brown's "The daVinci Code"