[Sca-cooks] Spices and the Irish Common folk

[Tom Vincent]

A spice or herb is just a part of a vegetable that is specifically 
identified as a flavor enhancer. I do not believe that the 14th century 
common person would make such a distinction.  If it was edible, it went 
in the pot.

Duriel

Terry Decker wrote:
>
>> I doubt if there is any period documentation about what 14th c. 
>> common Irish (or otherwise) folk ate or what spices they had, but 
>> I'll commit to the following generalizations:
>>
>>  1.  They didn't have any spices.
>
> This is open to question.  There are a number of herbs and spices 
> available locally which were fairly commonly used.  Mustard being a 
> favored condiment. Ireland did have trade with the Mediterranean, so 
> spices could have been available.  As for the grinding poverty of the 
> common people in Ireland, that was largely a product of the wars with 
> England from Elizabeth to Cromwell and is keeping with a general 
> inflationary period in Europe that reduced the fortunes of almost 
> everyone.
>
>>  2.  They didn't have any beef, corned or otherwise.
>
> I would recommend to you the Tain Bo Cualgne (The Cattle Raid of 
> Cooley) to demonstrate otherwise.  Wealth was cattle, until the 
> English stole everything that wasn't nailed down.  There are still a 
> fair number of cattle even today, as butter smuggling into Northern 
> Ireland used to be a major source of revenue.
>
>>  3.  Beef in the timeperiod wouldn't have been fed corn ('corn', 
>> pre-maize, being generic grain), but would have been grass-fed.
>
> Corning refers to the process of preserving meat with granulated salt 
> or brine.  In the particular case of corned beef, as we know it, it is 
> the use grains (corns) of saltpetre for the preservation, which 
> appears to be a practice that came into being with the increased use 
> of gunpowder.  The exact correlation is unknown and may be coincidental.
>
>>  4.  The recipes you're looking at were from the nobility.
>
> I've encountered one description of corning beef in the field which 
> while described by an educated individual was performed by definitely 
> non-noble rankers.
>
>>  5.  If they had any 'herbs', they would not be considered anything 
>> other than another vegetable.
>
> It would depend on whether the herbs were used as food or seasoning.
>
>>
>>  So, they may have 'enjoyed' a bit of cabbage, probably in the form 
>> of a soup. :)
>>
>>  That's about as close to 'corned beef and cabbage' a 14th c. Irish 
>> person would have likely seen.
>>
>>  Duriel van Hansard
>>  Caer Adamant, East Kingdom
>
> A version of corned beef and cabbage would more likely have graced the 
> table of the average Gael in the 14th Century than three centuries later.
>
> Bear
>
>
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