[Sca-cooks] RE: Chivalry and Supporting your Local Monarch

[tom.vincent at yahoo.com]

A coworker of mine is Somalia and it's fascinating learning from him how the Somali Warlords are essentially identical to Medieval Barons.  What used to be a single country has essentially fragmented into about 8 separate fiefdoms.  Tragic somewhat for the people but a fascinating real world experiment, seeing how phone service, airports and electrical distribution continue working without a central government.  The US gov't, for example, does not recognize any of the warlords yet continues to accept the meaningless and arbitrarily created 'Somalia' passport even though there is no such thing.
 
There's a very fuzzy line between thug and king.

Duriel
 
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Tom Vincent
Demon Prince (retired)
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Welcome to EXXONISTAN, the nation formerly known as the United States!
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Want kids? Do this horribly over-populated world a favor and adopt one that's already here.
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----- Original Message ----
From: Michael Gunter <countgunthar at hotmail.com>
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
Sent: Tuesday, May 9, 2006 6:56:56 PM
Subject: [Sca-cooks] RE: Chivalry and Supporting your Local Monarch


>So, would committing a non-criminal attrocity on an unsuspecting and
>defenseless person, to please one's King . . . be unchivalrous?  It's those
>vague, vacuous prot-definitions of "chivalrous" that are the bedrock of SCA
>political correctness.

Actually, according to both the rules of fealty and bushido (funny how
warrior codes seem to mimic each other), an honorable man commits
dishonorable acts in accordance to his superior's orders. The blame of
the acts lies with the person who gave the order and not with the
hand that carries it out. Much like the "I was only following orders"
commentary in the Nuremburg trials.

To refuse to commit an atrocity when commanded to do so by
your sworn Lord is to invalidate the vows of fealty and chivalry.

The only proper way to refuse such an order would be to commit
seppuku in protest of the order. Now the European varient wasn't
quite as extreme but a knight in fealty did risk pretty much everything
else in refusing the order.

>Give me something I can hang my hat on, like
>Courage, Loyalty, Fidelity, Trustworthy, Courtesy, Generosity, Gentleness,
>Compassion Ingenuity, or Love.  Yeah, these have meat you can chew on . . .
>and are all parts of what I consider modern Chivarly for my little world
>view.

Unfortunately, the concepts you mention are considered more fuzzy than
the strict laws of the Chivalric Code. These were guideposts and objects
to guide a virtuous life by, but not enforced. The Code of Chivalry was
pretty unbreakable within its boundries.

As an example, in the story of Ivanhoe, the villan never really does 
anything
wrong according to the Laws. He'd hassled Jews, which was commonplace
and even acceptable in some areas. But when captured he gave his word
and kept it, even when rescue came his way.

Chivalry was a way that kept gangs from killing each other off randomly.
When we consider the time of the Age of Chivalry it really was a pretty
nasty time. Not much different from Crips and Bloods taking over turf,
only on a much bigger scale. By the warlords maintaining a code of conduct
it prevented total anarchy. It wasn't meant to be romantic.

>Kinda like "period".  If we all sufficiently avoid actually defining it,
>then we can all use it to our own advantage and make it mean pert near
>_anything_.

I've pretty much retired from the SCA now mainly because I've grown
sick of knights using honor and oaths as buzzwords and conveniently
forgetting them when such oaths turn inconvenient.
Just like in period, the concept is different for each person and some 
believe
it and some just use it and others view it with disdain.

I rather like the line, "Honor is what you have in yourself, Renown is
what others think of you."

>niccolo difrancesco

Gunthar


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