[Sca-cooks] Greetings from the Incipient Shire of TymberhaveneinAnTir
Anne-Marie Rousseau
dailleurs at liripipe.com
Sun Aug 12 08:17:36 PDT 2007
On "if they ate breakfast"
Its interesting to try and put ourselves in our medieval counterparts
shoes. We do have inventories and menus for "foods that were eaten at such
and such a meal". We also have churches decrying the fact that people were
eating before taking communion at mass, so don't you go eating breakfast,
you slovenly bad catholics you ;)
We also have rulings where "if you're going to be working, you can eat this
to break your fast, and if you're not, then you get this" (I gleaned all
this from Barbara Heinschs' Fast and Feast...an awesome source for talking
about what was eaten WHY and WHEN)
I think its also important to remember that for most of our medieval
counterparts, they wouldn't have stumbled out of bed for a leisurely
breakfast to be followed by a day of fun and games in a park. Many of them
would have had chores or tasks to deal with as the sun came up. You get more
work out of someone if you give them fuel for the morning chores, I speak
from experience ;) but you also don't have time to make French toast and
perfect bacon and coffee....mmmm...coffee..... (oops. Sorry).
If we're going to be asking "what did medieval people eat for breakfast" I
think its criticial to ask ourselves:
1. which medieval people? Where? When? And what social class?
2. what's breakfast? Is it certain types of foods? Is it "anything you eat
within an hour of waking up"?
fun discussion!!
--Anne-Marie, who at events tends to break her fast with oatmeal/porriage,
with smoked fish and cheese if its available. Lunch is a much bigger meal,
with cold meats, cold meat pies, hard boiled eggs, cheese, bread, fruit, etc
and dinner is as early as we can make it, sitting to table with her
household :)
-----Original Message-----
From: sca-cooks-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org
[mailto:sca-cooks-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org] On Behalf Of Suey
Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2007 12:24 PM
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Greetings from the Incipient Shire of
TymberhaveneinAnTir
Terry wrote:
> While I hate to rain on your parade, breakfast was not a grand culinary
event until well after 1600. Usually, it consisted of bread or some form
of porridge washed down with beer, small beer or ale, wine if wealthy and
perhaps some type of meat. . .
>
Sometimes I get lost with your vocabulary like references to the SCA
time period. What is that? If this breakfast has to be medieval I agree
totally with Terry.
Forget it. Until Franco died in Spain it was about the most insipid
bite of the day with stale bread, bad coffee and watered down milk in
Madrid for most of us. Nobles got nibbles from the pantry like cheese
and/or sausage at best. Peasants got migas with garlic and lard if
lucky. If you are going medieval you have to serve wine and/or beer no
coffee or tea. Catherine Lancaster (1400), wife of Henry III of Castile,
would have gone for that but perhaps you will have to create infusions
of herbs for your 'Islamic' guests!
If organizing a breakfast/brunch contest I would make the setting a
pre-civil war Southern Plantation. There you have a rainbow of
biscuits/breads, pancakes/crepes, sausages and other pork and meat
products, eggs, dairy products, hash browns, fruits and coffees and teas
etc, etc all of which can be highly competitive dishes/liquids.
If limited to the Middle Ages, I would call this a brunch and then
you can open up medieval recipes for an 11 o'clock lunch so to speak
which I think would make for more competitive dishes "southern style" -
permissible in medieval tradition.
At what time is this breakfast to begin?
Suey
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. (Susan Fox)
> 2. Re: Greetings from the Incipient Shire of Tymberhavene
> inAnTir (Anne-Marie Rousseau)
> 3. Re: Greetings from the Incipient Shire of Tymberhavene
> inAnTir (Kellyann aka kitn)
> 4. Re: Greetings from the Incipient Shire of Tymberhavene
> inAnTir (Kellyann aka kitn)
> 5. Salt Rising Bread (Aldyth at aol.com)
> 6. Re: Greetings from the Incipient Shire of TymberhaveneinAnTir
> (Anne-Marie Rousseau)
> 7. Re: Salt Rising Bread (Nick Sasso)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 07:05:35 -0700
> From: Susan Fox <selene at earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Greetings from the Incipient Shire of
> Tymberhavene in AnTir
> To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
> Message-ID: <46BDC22F.7090105 at earthlink.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> I get the impression that was not the point of the question. It seemed
> to me that the point was, how to feed people if not enough breakfast
> contest entries came in. "Pelican Cooking" rather than "Laurel Cooking"
> if you take my meaning. The dish itself should be in the appropriate
> historical style for a SCA event, but here we are addressing the Virtue
> of Hospitality rather than of Scholarship.
>
> "What I am asking from all of you kind souls is a list of one dish
> breakfast type menu items as well as ideas on what Tymberhavene could
> supplement the main dishes with."
> My Lady Katla, do correct me if I am wrong?
>
> Yours in service,
> Dame Selene Colfox, OP, Caid
>
> Terry Decker wrote:
>
>> But is there any evidence that these are breakfast foods during the SCA
>> period?
>>
>> Bear
>>
>>
>>
>>> How about a great big ol' bread pudding? Bread, eggs and milk, not
>>> unlike "pain perdu" which is found in French and English source all
>>> throughout the SCA time period. And it can be made in quantity, in the
>>> oven, very easy.
>>>
>>> Selene
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> <clipped>
>>
>>
>>>> So with that plea, I would be VERY VERY happy if people would offer
>>>> advice on the dishes for such a competition and also maybe some
>>>> guidelines that I can use/tweak/modify for our purposes
>>>>
>>>> Thank you most kindly
>>>> Katla Elgr Hafn
>>>>
>>>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 07:21:09 -0700
> From: "Anne-Marie Rousseau" <dailleurs at liripipe.com>
> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Greetings from the Incipient Shire of
> Tymberhavene inAnTir
> To: "'Cooks within the SCA'" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
> Message-ID: <001e01c7dc22$e13368b0$0300a8c0 at ANNEMARIE>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Hello from Anne-Marie (also in Antir :))
>
> One of my favorite "foods that if you serve it to a modern person they'll
go
> "oo! Breakfast!" even if our medieval counterparts may not have eaten it
as
> such" (happy, Bear? ;)) is herbolade. There are several versions in the
> medieval corpus...off the top of my head I think of the one from le
menagier
> but I'm pretty sure there's another one in one of the English sources
(both
> are medieval western European)
>
> Its kinda a baked frittata thingie, with eggs, herbs and cheese.
>
> One Herbolace Or Two of Eggs (Menagier de Paris, p. 274)
>
> Take of dittany two leaves only, and of rue less than the half or naught,
> for know that it is strong and bitter; of smallage, tansey, mint, and
sage,
> of each some four leaves or less, for each is strong; marjoram a little
> more, fennel more, parsley more still, but of porray, beets, violet
leaves,
> spinach, lettuces and clary, as much of the one as of the others, until
you
> have two large handfuls. Pick them over and wash them in cold water, then
> dry them of all the water, and bray two heads of ginger, then put your
> herbs into the mortar two or three times and bray them with the ginger.
And
> then have sixteen eggs well beaten together, yolks and whites, and bray
> and mix them in the mortar with the things abovesaid, then divide it in
two
> and make two thick omelettes, which you shall fry as followeth. First you
> shall heat your frying pan very well with oil, butter or such other fat as
> you will, and when it is very hot all over and especially towards the
> handle, mingle and spread your eggs over the pan and turn them often over
> and over with a flat palette, then cast good grated cheese on the top, and
> know that it is so done, because if you grate cheese with the herbs and
> eggs, when you come to fry your omelette, the cheese at the bottom will
> stick to the pan, and thus it befals with an egg omelette if you mix the
> eggs with the cheese. Wherefore you should first put the eggs in the pan,
> and put the cheese on the top, and then cover the edges with eggs, and
> otherwise it will cling to the pan. And when your herbs be cooked in the
> pan, cut your herbolace into a round or square and eat it not too hot nor
> too cold.
>
> My version (adapted for cooking over a campstove/cookfire and easy quick
> prep) (all rights reserved, no publication without permission please):
>
> Take a couple handfuls of herb salad greens (and/or bagged baby spinach)
and
> mince finely with a bit of fresh ginger. Mix with six eggs and beat until
> blended.
>
> Heat some olive oil in a large pan that has a lid (my cast iron dutch oven
> works great for this). Dump in egg/herby goo. When set, you can flip it
(or
> if you're like me and forget, it will work just fine without flipping ;)).
> Sprinkle grated cheese on top, replace the lid and remove from the heat.
The
> residual heat from the cast iron pot will melt the cheese nicely.
>
> I've also been known to do a pseudo version of this in boiling
> bags....sautee my greens etc in a bit of olive oil. Beat the eggs with the
> grated cheese and seal all in a boiling bag. (don't do more than six eggs
> per bag for ease of cooking through). Like the boyscout omelets :))
>
> Hope this helps! This recipe is a big hit with people who "don't like
> medieval food".
>
> Good luck :)
>
> --Anne-Marie
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 07:45:42 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Kellyann aka kitn <swtlilkitn at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Greetings from the Incipient Shire of
> Tymberhavene inAnTir
> To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
> Message-ID: <333507.81801.qm at web51410.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> That would be delightful Maire ! I would most appreciate that.
>
> Warmly
> Katla
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: S CLEMENGER <sclemenger at msn.com>
> To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
> Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2007 6:54:13 AM
> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Greetings from the Incipient Shire of
Tymberhavene inAnTir
>
>
> There's a dish in the Anon. Andalusian text (from HG Cariadoc's website),
which is remarkably similar to those brunch casserole/quiche things. It's
been *years*, but ISTR it having eggs, milk, flour, cheese?, and "small
birds." I don't have my redaction anymore (computer issues), but could
pretty easily locate the original if you're interested. It's not
specifically a breakfast item, that I recall, but certainly could be used as
such.
> --Maire
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Kellyann aka kitn<mailto:swtlilkitn at yahoo.com>
> To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org<mailto:sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
> Sent: Friday, August 10, 2007 8:14 PM
> Subject: [Sca-cooks] Greetings from the Incipient Shire of Tymberhavene
inAnTir
>
>
> We are having our 3rd event this October and were thinking that while
the Bardic Competition was underway in the early AM that we would have a
small breakfast cooking competition running at the same time as the Bardic
was IE the judges would go through and taste dishes then as the Bardic was
beginning we would have a populace vote as they ate breakfast.
>
> Tymberhaven is also in a position of supplementing the Breakfast in the
event that there is little interest in the contest.
>
> What I am asking from all of you kind souls is a list of one dish
breakfast type menu items as well as ideas on what Tymberhavene could
supplement the main dishes with.
>
> I would normally not be going to such lengths to put on a contest (IE
seeking out the advice of those who have been there done that) but I have
never run a cooking contest before and since our A&S officer doesn't want to
do this it is falling into my lap which I'm cheering about since I LOVE to
feed people.
>
> So with that plea, I would be VERY VERY happy if people would offer
advice on the dishes for such a competition and also maybe some guidelines
that I can use/tweak/modify for our purposes
>
> Thank you most kindly
> Katla Elgr Hafn
> mka Kelly
> Incipient Shire of Tymberhavene
>
>
>
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 07:49:55 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Kellyann aka kitn <swtlilkitn at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Greetings from the Incipient Shire of
> Tymberhavene inAnTir
> To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
> Message-ID: <95141.55150.qm at web51407.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Anne-Marie !
>
> Much thanks !! Whereabouts in AnTir are you ? want to come play in Oregon
in October *grin* a long drive but usually such a pleasant weekend weather
wise .. our site sits on a creek which is lovely ..ahhh i digress *grin*
>
> Thanks for all your suggestions and input. We relish having lots of
things for people to do and enjoy this year.
>
> Warmly
> Katla
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Anne-Marie Rousseau <dailleurs at liripipe.com>
> To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
> Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2007 7:21:09 AM
> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Greetings from the Incipient Shire of
Tymberhavene inAnTir
>
>
> Hello from Anne-Marie (also in Antir :))
>
> One of my favorite "foods that if you serve it to a modern person they'll
go
> "oo! Breakfast!" even if our medieval counterparts may not have eaten it
as
> such" (happy, Bear? ;)) is herbolade. There are several versions in the
> medieval corpus...off the top of my head I think of the one from le
menagier
> but I'm pretty sure there's another one in one of the English sources
(both
> are medieval western European)
>
> Its kinda a baked frittata thingie, with eggs, herbs and cheese.
>
> One Herbolace Or Two of Eggs (Menagier de Paris, p. 274)
>
> Take of dittany two leaves only, and of rue less than the half or naught,
> for know that it is strong and bitter; of smallage, tansey, mint, and
sage,
> of each some four leaves or less, for each is strong; marjoram a little
> more, fennel more, parsley more still, but of porray, beets, violet
leaves,
> spinach, lettuces and clary, as much of the one as of the others, until
you
> have two large handfuls. Pick them over and wash them in cold water, then
> dry them of all the water, and bray two heads of ginger, then put your
> herbs into the mortar two or three times and bray them with the ginger.
And
> then have sixteen eggs well beaten together, yolks and whites, and bray
> and mix them in the mortar with the things abovesaid, then divide it in
two
> and make two thick omelettes, which you shall fry as followeth. First you
> shall heat your frying pan very well with oil, butter or such other fat as
> you will, and when it is very hot all over and especially towards the
> handle, mingle and spread your eggs over the pan and turn them often over
> and over with a flat palette, then cast good grated cheese on the top, and
> know that it is so done, because if you grate cheese with the herbs and
> eggs, when you come to fry your omelette, the cheese at the bottom will
> stick to the pan, and thus it befals with an egg omelette if you mix the
> eggs with the cheese. Wherefore you should first put the eggs in the pan,
> and put the cheese on the top, and then cover the edges with eggs, and
> otherwise it will cling to the pan. And when your herbs be cooked in the
> pan, cut your herbolace into a round or square and eat it not too hot nor
> too cold.
>
> My version (adapted for cooking over a campstove/cookfire and easy quick
> prep) (all rights reserved, no publication without permission please):
>
> Take a couple handfuls of herb salad greens (and/or bagged baby spinach)
and
> mince finely with a bit of fresh ginger. Mix with six eggs and beat until
> blended.
>
> Heat some olive oil in a large pan that has a lid (my cast iron dutch oven
> works great for this). Dump in egg/herby goo. When set, you can flip it
(or
> if you're like me and forget, it will work just fine without flipping ;)).
> Sprinkle grated cheese on top, replace the lid and remove from the heat.
The
> residual heat from the cast iron pot will melt the cheese nicely.
>
> I've also been known to do a pseudo version of this in boiling
> bags....sautee my greens etc in a bit of olive oil. Beat the eggs with the
> grated cheese and seal all in a boiling bag. (don't do more than six eggs
> per bag for ease of cooking through). Like the boyscout omelets :))
>
> Hope this helps! This recipe is a big hit with people who "don't like
> medieval food".
>
> Good luck :)
>
> --Anne-Marie
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org
>
>
>
>
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________
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> to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 10:54:19 EDT
> From: Aldyth at aol.com
> Subject: [Sca-cooks] Salt Rising Bread
> To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> Message-ID: <d2f.dab262f.33ef279b at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> Greetings all.
> On one of my left turns associated with my paper on bread, I came
across a
> reference to salt rising bread, leavened with the bacterium Clostridium
> perfringens. All I have been able to find so far is that this seems to be
an
> american bread. I am not particularly pushing it to be period, but could
this
> have happened in period? Like most of the recipes I have found, it seems
to
> have "appeared".
>
> Aldyth
>
> .
>
>
>
> ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL
at
> http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 08:07:25 -0700
> From: "Anne-Marie Rousseau" <dailleurs at liripipe.com>
> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Greetings from the Incipient Shire of
> TymberhaveneinAnTir
> To: "'Cooks within the SCA'" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
> Message-ID: <000601c7dc29$576a69b0$0300a8c0 at ANNEMARIE>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Hiya Katla :)
>
> I'm in Madrone, which is modernly Seattle, WA. What event are you talking
> about?
>
> Also, coincidentally, I have Mistress Fearga as a house guest this weekend
> visiting (yay! Field trips to weaving works and the farmers market!) and
> she's from Southern Oregon...drop me a note offline and I can happily
> introduce you to lots of feast running type people who might be able to
help
> a new group out :)
>
> So glad I can help a bit... hope to see you at an event soon!
>
> --Anne-Marie
> PS, I'll be at Sept Crown, if you want to come by and say howdy :)
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: sca-cooks-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org
> [mailto:sca-cooks-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org] On Behalf Of Kellyann aka
> kitn
> Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2007 7:50 AM
> To: Cooks within the SCA
> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Greetings from the Incipient Shire of
> TymberhaveneinAnTir
>
> Anne-Marie !
>
> Much thanks !! Whereabouts in AnTir are you ? want to come play in Oregon
in
> October *grin* a long drive but usually such a pleasant weekend weather
wise
> .. our site sits on a creek which is lovely ..ahhh i digress *grin*
>
> Thanks for all your suggestions and input. We relish having lots of
things
> for people to do and enjoy this year.
>
> Warmly
> Katla
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Anne-Marie Rousseau <dailleurs at liripipe.com>
> To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
> Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2007 7:21:09 AM
> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Greetings from the Incipient Shire of
Tymberhavene
> inAnTir
>
>
> Hello from Anne-Marie (also in Antir :))
>
> One of my favorite "foods that if you serve it to a modern person they'll
go
> "oo! Breakfast!" even if our medieval counterparts may not have eaten it
as
> such" (happy, Bear? ;)) is herbolade. There are several versions in the
> medieval corpus...off the top of my head I think of the one from le
menagier
> but I'm pretty sure there's another one in one of the English sources
(both
> are medieval western European)
>
> Its kinda a baked frittata thingie, with eggs, herbs and cheese.
>
> One Herbolace Or Two of Eggs (Menagier de Paris, p. 274)
>
> Take of dittany two leaves only, and of rue less than the half or naught,
> for know that it is strong and bitter; of smallage, tansey, mint, and
sage,
> of each some four leaves or less, for each is strong; marjoram a little
> more, fennel more, parsley more still, but of porray, beets, violet
leaves,
> spinach, lettuces and clary, as much of the one as of the others, until
you
> have two large handfuls. Pick them over and wash them in cold water, then
> dry them of all the water, and bray two heads of ginger, then put your
> herbs into the mortar two or three times and bray them with the ginger.
And
> then have sixteen eggs well beaten together, yolks and whites, and bray
> and mix them in the mortar with the things abovesaid, then divide it in
two
> and make two thick omelettes, which you shall fry as followeth. First you
> shall heat your frying pan very well with oil, butter or such other fat as
> you will, and when it is very hot all over and especially towards the
> handle, mingle and spread your eggs over the pan and turn them often over
> and over with a flat palette, then cast good grated cheese on the top, and
> know that it is so done, because if you grate cheese with the herbs and
> eggs, when you come to fry your omelette, the cheese at the bottom will
> stick to the pan, and thus it befals with an egg omelette if you mix the
> eggs with the cheese. Wherefore you should first put the eggs in the pan,
> and put the cheese on the top, and then cover the edges with eggs, and
> otherwise it will cling to the pan. And when your herbs be cooked in the
> pan, cut your herbolace into a round or square and eat it not too hot nor
> too cold.
>
> My version (adapted for cooking over a campstove/cookfire and easy quick
> prep) (all rights reserved, no publication without permission please):
>
> Take a couple handfuls of herb salad greens (and/or bagged baby spinach)
and
> mince finely with a bit of fresh ginger. Mix with six eggs and beat until
> blended.
>
> Heat some olive oil in a large pan that has a lid (my cast iron dutch oven
> works great for this). Dump in egg/herby goo. When set, you can flip it
(or
> if you're like me and forget, it will work just fine without flipping ;)).
> Sprinkle grated cheese on top, replace the lid and remove from the heat.
The
> residual heat from the cast iron pot will melt the cheese nicely.
>
> I've also been known to do a pseudo version of this in boiling
> bags....sautee my greens etc in a bit of olive oil. Beat the eggs with the
> grated cheese and seal all in a boiling bag. (don't do more than six eggs
> per bag for ease of cooking through). Like the boyscout omelets :))
>
> Hope this helps! This recipe is a big hit with people who "don't like
> medieval food".
>
> Good luck :)
>
> --Anne-Marie
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> ------------------------------
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> Message: 7
> Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 11:18:41 -0400
> From: "Nick Sasso" <grizly at mindspring.com>
> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Salt Rising Bread
> To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
> Message-ID: <CGEKJAEKHNBLPANNJPCJMEOODCAA.grizly at mindspring.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
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>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> Greetings all.
> On one of my left turns associated with my paper on bread, I came
across
> a
> reference to salt rising bread, leavened with the bacterium Clostridium
> perfringens. All I have been able to find so far is that this seems to be
> an
> american bread. I am not particularly pushing it to be period, but could
> this
> have happened in period? Like most of the recipes I have found, it seems
> to
> have "appeared".
>
> Aldyth > > > > > >
>
> Just a tidbit for reference, here is a paragraph from the FDA webstie
> regarding C. perfringens:
>
> "The common form of perfringens poisoning is characterized by intense
> abdominal cramps and diarrhea which begin 8-22 hours after consumption of
> foods containing large numbers of those C. perfringens bacteria capable of
> producing the food poisoning toxin. The illness is usually over within 24
> hours but less severe symptoms may persist in some individuals for 1 or 2
> weeks. A few deaths have been reported as a result of dehydration and
other
> complications."
>
> I'm hoping it is a different thing you found that is the leavening agent
and
> not what I think I see.
>
>
> niccolo difrancesco
>
>
>
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> End of Sca-cooks Digest, Vol 16, Issue 22
> *****************************************
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