[Sca-cooks] Lemons? Limes? Confusion?

David Walddon david at vastrepast.com
Tue Jul 8 21:56:18 PDT 2008

No mention of it in Gerard. Only Lemons.
Davidson has some interesting, but not much more than has been  
recounted on the list.
This website recounts Davidson (at least the first part) almost  
verbatim http://www.innvista.com/health/foods/fruits/limes.htm
Has anyone checked the index for PPC or for the Oxford Symposium papers?
Between the chemical, the Linden tree and the citrus fruit this is a  
sour pickle!

Food is life. May the plenty that graces your table truly be a VAST  

David Walddon
david at vastrepast.com

On Jul 8, 2008, at 9:23 PM, Lilinah wrote:

> I appreciate all the comments, so far. But before we get wrapped up  
> in Shakespeare, i'm still hoping someone can find an actual food- 
> related mention of limes within SCA-period.
> Limes, the fruit, are mentioned in five recipes in the Manuel de  
> Mugeres:
> For the thorns of the face
> Take a sweet lime and cut the top off, and put a little salt inside  
> it and put it to cook over the embers. And it cooks until it is  
> soft. And to remove the thorns, you will wet yourself with this  
> juice. And put powdered ginger on top.
> Remedy to prevent hair growth
> The juice of sweet limes beaten with egg whites. Comb the hair, put  
> (the mixture) on (the hair), and powder it with powdered ginger. At  
> three or four times that this is done it will not return to grow  
> any more.
> Recipe to make bile for the face
> Take four cow galls, and an escudilla of the juice of sweet limes,  
> and another escudilla of water of dirty fleece; and four maraveds  
> of myrrh, and four (maraveds) of tincal, one of rock solimn; the  
> well-washed and crushed root of a white lily, another root of an  
> arum lily, a little raw honey. Boil all this in a glass pot until  
> it is thick. And take heed that the myrrh, and the tincal, and the  
> solimn and the honey will finish after having boiled with the other  
> things. And after it has thickened, strain it with a linen cloth.  
> And put it in a flask, putting in it four maraveds of camphor.
> Tallow for the hands
> Two layers of kidney-fat of a goat and one of a sheep, cut into  
> pieces. Soak it in water for nine days, stirring the water every  
> day. After washing it very well, and the water has been well- 
> purified, melt it in a glass pot and throw in a little sweet lime  
> juice. And afterwards strain it, and make the loaves in your  
> escudillas on sweet lime juice. And after it solidifies, make the  
> loaves into pieces, and again melt them in a vessel of silver or  
> glass. And put with it scented oil, whichever you like and the  
> quantity you desire, and then make your little loaves.
> Water to wash the face
> Put in a new stew-pot an azumbre of white wine, and another  
> (azumbre) of water; and put with it borax, clarimente, camphor,  
> verdigris, rock solimn, strong southernwood resin, black chick- 
> peas, sea beans, a small mound of white lead, green dragon, opium  
> poppies, gourd seeds, bitter almonds: a maraved of each of these  
> things. And grind each of these things by itself. And put also a  
> little washed turpentine, and six cleaned and quartered sweet  
> limes. And lid the pot very well, and put it to the fire. And cook  
> it until it has diminished by three fingers' breadth. And then put  
> the lid on it and cover it with cloth and leave it to be a good  
> while so that it rests. And then add into it four crumbled eggs  
> with the shells and all. And beat it well with a stick, and again  
> put the cloth back on and leave it two or three days. And when the  
> three days have passed, strain that water and keep it in a flask to  
> wash your face with it.
> From:
> http://larsdatter.com/manual.htm
> (there are several items she didn't translate from the 16th C.  
> Spanish: rock solimn, clarimente, tincal... anyone have any idea  
> what these are in modern English?)
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
> -------------------------------------------
> I know the names for lemon and lime are very similar both in Arabic  
> and in most European languages, as others have remarked. And thanks  
> for that OED information, Huette, although it only speaks to  
> English and not when the fruits were differentiated in other places.
> So given the linguistic confusion between lemons and limes, if  
> limes were really being grown in Europe, then i wonder if they may  
> have been used interchangeably with lemons in cuisine. Does this  
> sound likely?
> Or were they only used medicinally?
> Interestingly (well, to me anyway), that article that Bridgit  
> pointed out indicates that not only were bitter oranges (naranias),  
> lemons (limones), limes (limas), and citrons (toronias) grown in al- 
> Andalus and hence SCA-period Spain, but pummelos, too! as  
> "azamboos", from the Arabic zanbu. Not sure how they were being  
> used, though...
> Next question: Has anyone substituted limes in SCA-period recipes  
> calling for lemons? If so, what has been successful?
> I love limeade... maybe next time i make sharbat bi-laimun, i'll  
> use limes instead of lemons. BTW the Berkeley Bowl has a citrus  
> that looks like a lemon but isn't sour - IIRC, they're called  
> Palestine limes... or lemons... i'm now confused :-)
> -- 
> Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)
> the persona formerly known as Anahita
> My LibraryThing
> http://www.librarything.com/catalog/lilinah
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