[Sca-cooks] pumpkins and squashes

Stefan li Rous StefanliRous at austin.rr.com
Sat Jul 19 21:13:34 PDT 2008

Bear replied to me with:
Bear said:

<<< Purely as a guess, pumpkin pie began as an Elizabethean "thang"  in
the New
World as a replacement for some of the pie stuffs the colonists had left
behind.  >>>>

Okay, such as what? I can't see it replacing a berry pie. It's too
different. And I can't think of anything in a custard pie which   
have been available in the New World, at least after the  colonies were


Again, as a guess, this was a replacement for sweet potato pie which  
is an
Elizabethan treat and probably not generally available in Virginia at  
time.  >>>

Ah, okay. Sweet potato would be much closer to the texture/processing  
of a pumpkin pie. I'm somewhat surprised though that sweet potato  
would be common enough in England that the colonists would have been  
aware of it, yet not be growing it in the colonies.

<<< Also, you are being far to restrictive in your idea of pie.  You  
appear to
be assuming a dessert, where as pie in the Elizabethan usage may be an
intergral part of the meal and not necessarily sweet. >>>

No. I was thinking more of texture and processing rather than sweet/ 
savory. Although all the pumpkin pies I've eaten have been sweet. I  
guess with added sugar.  Did these Elizabethan sweet potato pies tend  
to be savory then, rather than sweet?

<<< I've made artichoke
pie and within easy reach I have Elizabethan recipes for eel and  
onion pie,
apple and orange pie, and olive pie.  The olives in olive pie are  
slices of
stuffed meat. >>>

None of these, I think, end up with a custardy, well chopped/pureed  
filling. They are all larger chunks and pieces. I thought oranges  
were more of a Spanish item during Elixabethan times. So oranges,  
perhaps the non-sweet ones, were available in England? And these  
Elizabethan apple and orange pies were savory, not sweet?

THLord Stefan li Rous    Barony of Bryn Gwlad    Kingdom of Ansteorra
    Mark S. Harris           Austin, Texas           
StefanliRous at austin.rr.com
**** See Stefan's Florilegium files at:  http://www.florilegium.org ****

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