[Sca-cooks] Coffin Construction

[Nancy Kiel]

I'm not certain that fat was that expensive in period; the big cost in making coffin (inedible) pastes seems to me to be in the flour and the actual time & skill for production.  Mrs. Beeton, of Victorian cookbook fame, provides ratios---1 lb of flour and 1 1/2 oz each of butter and lard---so for 5 lbs of flour you only need one lb of fat.  This kind of pastry is certainly not for everyday, though.

Nancy Kiel
nancy_kiel at hotmail.com
Never tease a weasel!
This is very good advice.
For the weasel will not like it
And teasing isn't nice.

> Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 12:20:43 -0700
> From: phoenissa at gmail.com
> To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Coffin Construction
> 
> Ciao Serena,
> 
> I'm going to be a little contrary :-) and go totally against the grain of
> everyone else's recommendation to use a lard- or butter-based pastry.  The
> Anonimo Toscano recipe collection dates from ca. 1400, and that strikes me
> as very early to be using fat in pastry dough.  I don't see a lot of
> evidence for use of fat in pie crusts until later 15th-16th c (mid-16th you
> start getting pastry fortified with butter/lard and eggs, which is a whole
> other creature).  Written evidence aside, there's also the question of
> simple logic: Fat is expensive, and the "coffin" is not meant to be eaten.
> Why would you put all that expensive animal product into a shell that's
> going to be thrown away or tossed to the poor?  Then again, if you intend
> for diners at the feast to eat the "coffins", by all means use make it
> delicious with lard or butter. :-)
> 
> I don't know whether it's possible to make a flour-and-water dough stand up
> on its own, so I would assume you would use a pie pan.  To get the "cup"
> shape described in the recipe, you can try doing what the cooks for the
> "Perfectly Period Feast" did (this is the 15th-c English feast that Cariadoc
> and Urtatim have been describing, which happened at West Kingdom Collegium
> this past weekend).  The cooks built their "coffins" in modern springform
> pans, so that they could be molded and baked in the correct shape, but could
> be presented at the feast as freestanding objects, not a pie pan in sight.
> Nearly all the pies were flat and shallow, but the veal pie (I think) for
> the High Table looked like it was at least 6-8 inches tall!  His Grace
> undoubtedly got a better look at it than I did (I was off in the corner with
> the other musicians), so I will leave it to him to give a more accurate
> description if necessary.  (Those "coffins" were not eaten, by the way; the
> top crusts were removed, and the filling chopped and spooned onto guests'
> trenchers.)
> 
> I was involved with almost every aspect of that feast *except* the food,
> ironically, so I can't tell you whether the cooks used fat in their pie
> crusts, or how precisely they formed them -- but I can certainly find out
> for you.  Let me know if you want more information.  Good luck with the
> feast!
> 
> 
> Vittoria
> 
> On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 9:34 AM, Barbara Benson <voxeight at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > Saluti!
> >
> > I know that I have been pestering the list a goodly bit in the past
> > couple of weeks - this feast is driving me nuts! I don't know why this
> > one is proving to be so challenging.
> >
> > My newest obstacle is coffin construction. I want to redact this
> > recipe this weekend:
> >
> > Anon Tuscan Translated by Vittoria
> > A cup of chicken or other fowl.
> > [125] Cut chickens or fowl into pieces; dilute flour with hot water,
> > and make it very stiff: then make the shape of a cup from said dough
> > and put in it the aforementioned chickens with whole green grapes,
> > saffron and spices, and a bit of cold water, and close it on top with
> > dough, and put it in the oven or rather on top of pans; and on the top
> > of the cup put a big piece of lard.
> >
> > And I wanted to take advantage of the experience of anyone on this
> > list who has attempted coffins before. What formula did you use for
> > the coffin dough (I say formula because recipe implies that someone
> > will eat it)? Any tips on raising the durn things? Pitfalls? Also, one
> > of the major tools I have on the site is a convection oven - do you
> > think that since the coffin is sealed it would be fine in there or can
> > anyone foresee problems with a convection oven.
> >
> > >From the recipe it seems that the crust is flour + water. Any thoughts
> > on proportions?
> >
> > I look forward to your replies.
> >
> > Grazie,
> >
> > --
> > Serena da Riva
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> >
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