[Sca-cooks] When does torten = pie crust?

[ranvaig at columbus.rr.com]

>Okay, it's been a long, hard day, and I'm going to speak totally off the top of my head here... but that said, I have the vaguest of recollections of torte recipes in Rumpolt, perhaps, which seem to imply (but not openly state) a distinction between tortes and pies as tortes being cooked on/in embers, sort of like a roasted frittata or a Roman patina, and actual pies and tarts being baked in an oven.

That well might be true, but I don't see it stated in the recipes.

Turten 1 says " laß backen / es sei im Ofen oder in der Turtenpfannen " let it bake/ be it in the oven or in a tortepan.  Gebackens 56. says "truckne jn im Ofen oder Pastetenpfann... nimb alsdenn die Deck von einer Turtenpfann/ und thu Kolen darauf"  dry in the oven or a pie pan....take then the cover of the tart pan/ and put coals on it".  Gebackens are not pies, but seems to use Pastetenpfann and Turtenpfann as synomyms for a pan with a cover.

Rumpolt has a whole chapter on Turten, and two chapters on  Pasteten, along with other recipes scattered through the book.  Most of them just give the recipe for the filling and don't describe the crust. "so ist es ein gute Füll zu einer Turten".  I don't see any sign that either word is used when there is no crust. 


Pasteten usually meat, fowl, or fish as a filling, although "Quitten Pasteten" is in one menu. Most are closed "mach zu" or wrapped "schlag".  Some are in a rye dough " in einem Ruckenteig eingeschlagen".   Pies are "in eine auf getriebene Pasteten" where getriebene means driven.  Sometimes pie crusts are said to be driven in English too.

Ochsen 9 says "mach sie mit einem Deckel von Teig zu/ und scheub es in Ofen" close it with a cover of dough/ push it in oven.


Most Turten are sweet, but also spinach, cheese, Manscho Blanco, Ox tongue, and calf brains. 
Turten 19 says "Und mach kein Deckel darauf / daß man sihet / daß ein Käß Turten sei "And make no lid thereon/ that one may see/ that it is a cheese Turten, which implies that others do have a top crust.


There is also "Pfannkuchen" which one cooks in a Kuchenpfannen.

http://clem.mscd.edu/~grasse/GK_turten1.htm
http://www.geocities.com/ranvaig/medieval/EinNewKochbuch.pdf

Ranvaig