[Sca-cooks] Tharida questions (long)

[lilinah at earthlink.net]

Here are the recipes, as "written" by Martinelli and from Duke 
Cariadoc's website. Some of Martinelli's changes are minor, but a 
few...
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Tharida with Lamb and Spinach, Moist Cheese and Butter

 From Martinelli, p. 38: (she resentenced and added breaks)
This used to be made in Cordoba in the spring by the doctor Abu 
al-Hasan al-Bunani, God have mercy on him and pardon us and him.

Take the meat of a fat lamb, cut it and put it in the pot with salt, 
onion juice, pepper, coriander seed, caraway and oil. Put it on the 
fire and when it has *cooked*, put in it chopped and washed spinach 
in sufficient quantity, *grated* moist cheese *[a soft, fresh 
cheese]* and butter.

When it has *cooked*, take the pot off the fire and *add more* 
butter. Let there be crumbs of bread moderately leavened *[add the 
crumbs to the liquid first, then]* put your meat on it.

And if he, God have mercy on him, lacked lamb meat, he would make a 
tharida of spinach, moist cheese, butter and the previously mentioned 
spices and eggs instead of meat.

http://www.daviddfriedman.com/Medieval/Cookbooks/Andalusian/andalusian8.htm
This used to be made in Cordoba in the spring by the doctor Abu 
al-Hasan al-Bunani, God have mercy on him and pardon us and him. Take 
the meat of a fat lamb, cut it and put it in the pot with salt, onion 
juice, pepper, coriander seed, [p. 58, recto] caraway and oil; put it 
to the fire and when it has *finished*, put in it chopped and washed 
spinach in sufficient quantity, *rubbed* moist cheese[148] and 
butter. When it has *finished*, take the pot off the fire and 
*moisten with* butter. Let there be crumbs of bread moderately 
leavened*, *and put your meat on them, and if he (God have mercy on 
him) lacked lamb meat, he would make a tharida of spinach, moist 
cheese, butter and the previously mentioned spices and eggs instead 
of meat.
[148] Presumably a fresh farmer's cheese or cottage cheese. (CP)

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Tharida of Lamb with Garbanzos

 From Martinelli, p. *43*:
Cut up lamb in large pieces and put with it spices, soaked garbanzos, 
oil and salt. When it has fried, pour in enough water to cover *[and 
boil]*. And when it is about *cooked*, throw in orach [a *flaky* 
vegetable related to spinach]. When it is *cooked*, throw in fresh 
cheese cut up in pieces like fingertips *[cubed]*, and break eggs 
into it and crumble bread in it, and sprinkle it with pepper and 
cinnamon, God willing.

 From the Perry translation:
Cut up lamb in large pieces and put with it spices, soaked garbanzos, 
oil and salt. When it has fried, pour in enough water to cover. And 
when it is about *done*, throw in orach [a *leafy* vegetable related 
to spinach]. When it is *done*, throw in fresh cheese cut up in 
pieces like fingertips, and break eggs into it and crumble bread in 
it, and sprinkle it with pepper and cinnamon, God willing.

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Madhavi wrote:
>  [Martinelli] states at the beginning of the section that couscous can be
>  substituted for breadcrumbs in all of the tharida recipes, possibly
>  because one of the tharida recipes (tharida mudhakkar, pg. 38) states
>  that couscous can be substituted...

As Cariadoc has addressed the "issues" with this document, i will 
not. But i have *asterisked* where she changed his text.

>...I think this would substantially alter
>  the texture of all of these dishes and question that addition.

I agree.

>  ...I have
>  read the redacted tharida recipes in the Miscellany and by Urtatim, but
>  both are different kinds of tharidas than the ones I am trying to
>  redact.

I redacted The White Tharida of al-Rashid, translated by Charles 
Perry and made available in His Grace's Miscellany, when i'd been in 
the SCA a year or so, long before i had access to the book from which 
it originally came - ibn Sayyar al-Warraq's Kitab al-Tabikh - which 
was published at the end of 2007. Now i know that recipe was supposed 
to be served over torn or crumbled bread, which improves it.

>  My questions are:
>  Do you feel that couscous as an interchangeable ingredient for
>  breadcrumbs in tharidas is historically accurate?

Nope.

Couscous may appear in a tharida recipe here and there, but the point 
of a tharida is to use up bread that is less than the freshest. A 
poor man's tharida is torn or crumbled bread with liquid. If they're 
fortunate, the liquid is broth from some sort of meat, usually lamb, 
but possibly of chicken. But at least one of the cookbooks (i forget 
which) mentions that tharida can consist of torn or crumbled bread 
moistened only by vinegar (i wonder if their vinegar was not as 
strongly acidic as ours... other recipes make me wonder this as well).

>  On reading the two tharida recipes specified above, what would you think
>  is the texture of the final dish; soft like a savory bread pudding,

Other than for the poor, i doubt a tharida would be like a bread 
pudding in which the bread dominates. While bread was an essential 
part of every meal, the wealthy, from whom our recipes come, would 
want a meaty dish, with the bread pieces underneath absorbing excess 
moisture. This makes them a bit soggy and flaccid, but quite tasty.

>  dry like a steamed couscous dish

The dish should not be dry, as the formerly dry bread crumbs are made 
more edible by being moistened by the liquid, broth, or "stew". The 
bread should be moist and tender.

>  or something else entirely?

Uh-yup - see my comment under "savory bread pudding".
-- 
Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)
the persona formerly known as Anahita