[Sca-cooks] Anneys in Counfyte: The Recipe Was Right

[Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius]

On Sep 19, 2009, at 8:05 AM, Elise Fleming wrote:

> Well, it _is_ possible to do it without tremendous pain.  Some tips  
> are using only a tiny amount of syrup and being careful about the  
> temperature of the bottom of the pan where the seeds are.  If you  
> drop in the sugar onto the seeds, and the sugar bubbles, DON'T use  
> your hand; use a wooden spoon or scraper.

One consideration might be that seeds, containing by some design a  
certain amount of air space, don't really transmit heat the same as an  
equal volume of hot water or oil. As I recall the 15th century recipe  
His Grace is working with, you heat the seeds, remove them from the  
pan to another  container, heat the sugar in the pan, then return the  
somewhat cooled seeds to the sugar in the pan. The only warm seeds act  
as a barrier between the hand and the hot sugar, which begins to cool  
once the seeds are added.

> >One piece of advice--your pan should be a dutch oven or equivalent.  
> If >you use a frying pan, the process of rubbing the seeds against  
> the >bottom to break up the lumps also squirts seeds out of the pan  
> onto the >stove, kitchen counter, floor, ...  .
>
> I am curious how vigorously the seeds must be being stirred for them  
> to squirt out of the pan.  Were they being stirred with enthusiasm  
> or with soft patience?  How many seeds were in the pan?  Perhaps  
> there were too many.  In my wok, depending on the size of the seed,  
> I can use one of those small containers which have less than an ounce.

Yes, I also use a one-ounce sauce ladle. It's not clear if the  
instruction is to use an ounce of seeds or (as I suspect) the  
equivalent in volume of an ounce of something like sugar or water.

>  However, once the sugar coating has begun to build up, I find that  
> I need to divide the seeds into two or three different batches.  If  
> you have a wok, try that but be sure that the bottom of the wok is  
> not sitting directly on the heat source.  Use a "wok ring" or  
> something to elevate the bottom off the direct heat.

I also used one of those slightly flat-bottomed Japanese woks with a  
skillet-type handle on one side. The omelette-stirring hand motion is  
useful here, too.

> Also, the recipe that you cited mentions taking the pan off the heat  
> from time to time.  That keeps the pan within a temperature range  
> where you can stir the seeds without burning yourself.
>
> >One of the things I don't think I got quite right was the color. I  
> >suspect, from the comment at the end of the recipe, that the  
> candied >seeds are supposed to come out a nice white. I let the  
> sugar get  a >little too hot, so it ended up pale brown.
>
> Yes, a nice white is the desired color.  Some problems are that when  
> the sugar coating (the "charge") is initially applied, care must be  
> taken to continue moving the seeds in the warm/hot pan until they  
> are thoroughly dry.  Adding charge after charge to a not-thoroughly- 
> dried seed will result in a grayish color.  If you got brown, then  
> as you mentioned, you may have had too hot a syrup.

You can also pick up a grayish color from an iron or steel pan.  
Basically microscopic iron filings and minute bits of blackened oil  
from a seasoned pan.

> How hot _was_ the syrup?  If you are aiming for a ragged comfit,  
> then the syrup is hotter than for a "smooth" comfit.  The testing is  
> in the sugar stage. I'm going to refer you - and anyone else - to my  
> web site (http://home.netcom.com/~alysk/articles/articles.html)  
> where there are two articles that may be of interest or of use.  One  
> is "Sugar Temperatures Compiled".  I've pulled together a number of  
> references to sugar temperatures and the testing methods.  The  
> second is "Historic Comfits Using Modern Equipment" where I've tried  
> to set out all the information about making comfits so that a person  
> can be successful (having been notoriously UNsuccessful myself!).   
> At this point, I'm trying for smooth comfits since those are harder  
> (I think) to achieve than ragged comfits.  My last batch was what  
> Ivan said was "good".

One of the beauties of the 15th century "rough and ragged" confit is  
the omission of water and the basic absence of certain considerations  
like sugar height. It's hard crack by default as soon as it is melted  
-- assuming you don't let it brown, at which point it is becoming  
caramel.

> The recipe you cited says "whan it begynneth to boyle take a lityll  
> up of the | suger betwene th fyngers & thi thombe, & whan it  
> begyneth any thyng to streme than it is sothyn inowe."  Here's a  
> description of their test for the desired sugar stage.  (I've seen  
> Ivan do this, but he admits that he has "asbestos fingers".)

I can attest to this; it is more doable than it may seem. Basically  
the candy (I try very hard not to use the word "syrup" because there  
is no water involved in the 15th century recipe) contains no water and  
doesn't retain heat for any appreciable period of time. I usually  
stick my wooden spoon into the pan and then put my fingers into that.
>
> >The recipe that we are using them in wants them to be red. I don't  
> know >if that means "brown," in which case I 've got just what they  
> asked >for, or if their candied coriander seeds used something  
> additional, >perhaps saunders, for color.
>
> Saunders is indeed what is called for in later recipes when red is  
> wanted.

Quite possibly, but when Chiquart calls for a red confit garniture he  
may be referring to the earlier "rough and ragged" confits rather than  
the dipped-in-syrup type, since the former are basically contemporary  
for him. I STR different shades being achieved by storing, or allowing  
them to cool, in different ways, so I assume it's connected with  
oxidation. This discussion also turns up, in a variation, in some of  
the early cotignac/quidony (quince paste) recipes. Basically it  
amounts to leaving the cover off while cooking for red cotignac (which  
is a very dark, almost black, red), and keeping the cover on for white  
(which is a far more visible reddish amber).

>  I've successfully gotten green from parsley, but it's not a "green  
> green" and the color fades after some months.
>
> For a good color, I started adding the coloring agent to the sugar  
> for the first charges rather than putting on a number of coats and  
> then adding the color to the final charges.

It probably also helps to add colors to sugar or syrup that isn't  
going to be heated to high temperatures. Another problem for the 15th  
century version.

> (Emphasis...) THIS IS NOT A SPEEDY PROCESS!  One can put on 10 or so  
> charges the first day.  Then the seeds are put out in a warm, dry  
> place to let them fully dry.  The second day another 10-15 charges  
> are added.  Then, they are put aside to dry fully again.  The third  
> day they can get another 10-15 charges.  Perhaps a full day's drying  
> isn't needed; I don't know if any recipes specify.  I have gotten 70  
> charges on my seeds which ended up the same size as the original  
> ones that I made with 20 charges.  I had added too much sugar each  
> time I ladled on the syrup.
>
> The recipe that you cited would seem to have a goodly amount of  
> syrup added since this appears to be a one-day process.  Don't rush  
> the drying process in the pan.  As you continue to move the seeds  
> around, you should notice that they change from a grayish color to a  
> whitish one. The dryer they get, the whiter they get.

What I've found is that the 15th-century process can go fairly  
quickly, say, an hour or two to achieve the largest size they're going  
to reach. Eventually, however, you get to a point where they're not  
going to get any larger, and as the sugar melts and clings to  
surfaces, it is as likely to cling to other bits of sugar as it is to  
coated seeds, so eventually you begin to get coated seeds and sugar  
balls without seeds. At that point I stop... I'm kind of assuming that  
they can be made larger, but perhaps not with the sugar technology of  
the 15th century. So I stop. If there's a way to go further without  
dipping each one in syrup and drying on a screen between applications,  
I'd be glad to know what it is.

Adamantius






"Most men worry about their own bellies, and other people's souls,  
when we all ought to worry about our own souls, and other people's  
bellies."
			-- Rabbi Israel Salanter