emilio_szabo at yahoo.it
Sat Jul 31 12:19:53 PDT 2010
Many thanks for the input on and off list. Please let me make a few further
I was told and I am well aware, that there is an ancient controversy between
David and Adamantius about the question, how to exactly understand the recipe(s)
we have and how to proceed in making cusynoles.
So, the basic question in _this_ controversy is or was:
"Basically, the disagreement is on the construction of a cuskynole."
"And the giants fought not once, but many times ..."
At least in the florilegium, I cannot see any discussion of the giants as for
the connection of cuskynoles and the arabic tradition. David, in his latest
<< Khushkananaj in al-Baghdadi. I've been making it for twenty or thirty
years. It didn't occur to me that it had any connection with cuskynoles. >>
So, this (the connection of cuskynoles/kuskenole with the arabic tradition)
seems to be a topic, that was not part of the Cariadoc/Adamantius controversy so
far. I might be mistaken.
2. Michael Gunter's argument
> Divide the dough into portions,
But this statement here destroys the entire cuskynole argument. The illustration
showed a large rectangle with lines and a little dimple on the top and this
is clearly a crescent shaped turnover. I'm sure the same ingredients can be
shaped into the large ravioli sheet (which is my interpretation of the
but this looks to be a hand-sized stuffed pie.
In fact, even the filling appears to be different than the debated cuskynole
made them for a feast.
No, it does not destroy the argument.
First: please allow for variation and historical development in dishes and
recipes. We have this kind of variation in other dishes and recipes as well. As
long as we do not know what were the essential and what were the more
accidental/variable criteria of the dishes in question, I would not dismiss the
Second: The filling might be on the variable side. Consider ravioli which can be
made with all sorts of fillings.
Third: Here is sort of argument from authority (which I know is not very strong,
but might make you think). On a belgian website, there are two files that are
relevant for us. One of them contains a comment by Liliane Plouvier, one of the
authors who contributed significantly to the study of food of Al-Andalus. Here
are the links:
Fourth: All we are doing here is to try and understand a hitherto "strange" name
of a dish. I find it o.k. to check those arabic roots, that Maxime Rodinson has
dealt with in many other cases and that Melitta Weiss Adamson has traced for Ibn
Jazla/Ibn Gazla ("Ibn Jazla auf dem Weg nach Bayern", 'Ibn Jazla on the/his way
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