From morgana at gci.net  Tue Jan  1 02:40:51 2013
From: morgana at gci.net (morgana)
Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2013 01:40:51 -0900
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Question remove vs course
In-Reply-To: <50E28630.9040601@gmail.com>
References: <50E0F727.8080709@ix.netcom.com> <50E20A5C.5070402@gmail.com>
	<50E2381F.1070202@jeffnet.org> <50E28630.9040601@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D1965841-0074-4E41-9A4B-E527DBBC0427@gci.net>


On Dec 31, 2012, at 9:46 PM, Antonia di Benedetto Calvo <dama.antonia at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 1/01/2013 2:13 p.m., Laura C. Minnick wrote:
>> 
>> We're doing a pretty good job of the same with autocrat (now 'event steward') and troll (now 'gate'). I'm still pushing to call children 'children' and not 'smalls', and vehicular transport a 'car' or 'wagon' or even 'wain' rather than a dragon. After all, prudent persons do not ride to feast in the belly of a dragon.
>> 
> 
> We're largely free of autocrat (steward), troll ("gate"-- I'd like to get this upgraded to warden or porter or something) and (thank Heavens!) dragon.  Even 'eric' has pretty much gone.
> 
> 
> -- 
> Antonia di Benedetto Calvo

We still use autocrat for the event person, but usually use head cook. And gate is usually just referred to as "constab." It helps that we have a small, fluid population that includes lots of newcomers, so children and vehicles was easy. Dragons are only those very noisy things that fly in the sky and make outdoor court hard to hear occasionally. But we do stubbornly hang onto eric, although it is explained as part of Society's history. We are in the West, after all . . .

Morgana yr Oerfa
Winter's Gate, Oertha, West


From alistrina at optonline.net  Tue Jan  1 05:27:10 2013
From: alistrina at optonline.net (Susan Nalley)
Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2013 08:27:10 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Dragaons (Was:  Question remove vs course)
In-Reply-To: <D1965841-0074-4E41-9A4B-E527DBBC0427@gci.net>
References: <50E0F727.8080709@ix.netcom.com> <50E20A5C.5070402@gmail.com>
	<50E2381F.1070202@jeffnet.org> <50E28630.9040601@gmail.com>
	<D1965841-0074-4E41-9A4B-E527DBBC0427@gci.net>
Message-ID: <81E6FADAF3E347ECBB33E9DFC775FC41@Toshiba>

Morgana yr Oerfa wrote:


> Dragons are only those very noisy things that fly in the sky and make 
> outdoor court hard to hear occasionally.

Ahh, *That*s the perfect name for them!

Alistrina
Frosted Hills
East 



From dephelps at embarqmail.com  Tue Jan  1 07:06:32 2013
From: dephelps at embarqmail.com (Daniel And elizabeth phelps)
Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2013 10:06:32 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] The Dawn of Beer
Message-ID: <1598291023.718151.1357052792894.JavaMail.root@md11.embarq.synacor.com>

Interesting short article regards prehistorical brewing and beer busts. 

http://www.livescience.com/25855-stone-age-beer-brewery-discovered.html 

Daniel 

From susanrlin at gmail.com  Tue Jan  1 11:36:40 2013
From: susanrlin at gmail.com (Susan Lin)
Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2013 12:36:40 -0700
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Dragaons (Was: Question remove vs course)
In-Reply-To: <81E6FADAF3E347ECBB33E9DFC775FC41@Toshiba>
References: <50E0F727.8080709@ix.netcom.com> <50E20A5C.5070402@gmail.com>
	<50E2381F.1070202@jeffnet.org> <50E28630.9040601@gmail.com>
	<D1965841-0074-4E41-9A4B-E527DBBC0427@gci.net>
	<81E6FADAF3E347ECBB33E9DFC775FC41@Toshiba>
Message-ID: <CAHkO8TTp__jgFMipxTu+RNU6N-ETbbaQf93G8tJkpcqm7Hv_FQ@mail.gmail.com>

Back in Angelspur (Troy New York) - If I remember correctly dragon was
reserved for the fire trucks when we had events at the firehouse.

Shoshanah

On Tue, Jan 1, 2013 at 6:27 AM, Susan Nalley <alistrina at optonline.net>wrote:

> Morgana yr Oerfa wrote:
>
>
>  Dragons are only those very noisy things that fly in the sky and make
>> outdoor court hard to hear occasionally.
>>
>
> Ahh, *That*s the perfect name for them!
>
> Alistrina
> Frosted Hills
> East
>
> ______________________________**_________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/**listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-**ansteorra.org<http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org>
>

From dama.antonia at gmail.com  Tue Jan  1 14:31:47 2013
From: dama.antonia at gmail.com (Antonia di Benedetto Calvo)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2013 11:31:47 +1300
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Dragaons (Was: Question remove vs course)
In-Reply-To: <81E6FADAF3E347ECBB33E9DFC775FC41@Toshiba>
References: <50E0F727.8080709@ix.netcom.com> <50E20A5C.5070402@gmail.com>
	<50E2381F.1070202@jeffnet.org> <50E28630.9040601@gmail.com>
	<D1965841-0074-4E41-9A4B-E527DBBC0427@gci.net>
	<81E6FADAF3E347ECBB33E9DFC775FC41@Toshiba>
Message-ID: <CAEvh7OV2wOMtrwGmzHm8d2Gn_1uvB_nfFDmVLB8KeSjCDSWfhw@mail.gmail.com>

On Jan 2, 2013 2:26 AM, "Susan Nalley" <alistrina at optonline.net> wrote:
>
> Morgana yr Oerfa wrote:
>
>
>> Dragons are only those very noisy things that fly in the sky and make
outdoor court hard to hear occasionally.
>
>
> Ahh, *That*s the perfect name for them!

Really? I tend to think they're best not remarked upon at all.

Antonia

From alexbclark at pennswoods.net  Tue Jan  1 15:39:54 2013
From: alexbclark at pennswoods.net (Alexander Clark)
Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2013 18:39:54 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Question remove vs. course.
Message-ID: <CAKWJ1s1BqS9qMiLKye4_H6vp8g_zGGKC49epX90MUr6Wbh7f-g@mail.gmail.com>

> Today a cook for an upcoming event said that the correct term was called
> remove not course, I said the term is course. I was then corrected by the
> rest at the meeting that what is served at feasts are removes and not
> courses. Memory fails me. I always thought it was course, is it remove?????
>
> De

<snark>
I know just what they mean. "Correct" means "approved by the
in-group". It does not mean "true". That's the same sense as in
"politically correct". Is clear now?
</snark>

-- 
Henry/Alex

From morgana at gci.net  Tue Jan  1 16:29:00 2013
From: morgana at gci.net (morgana)
Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2013 15:29:00 -0900
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Dragaons (Was: Question remove vs course)
In-Reply-To: <CAEvh7OV2wOMtrwGmzHm8d2Gn_1uvB_nfFDmVLB8KeSjCDSWfhw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <50E0F727.8080709@ix.netcom.com> <50E20A5C.5070402@gmail.com>
	<50E2381F.1070202@jeffnet.org> <50E28630.9040601@gmail.com>
	<D1965841-0074-4E41-9A4B-E527DBBC0427@gci.net>
	<81E6FADAF3E347ECBB33E9DFC775FC41@Toshiba>
	<CAEvh7OV2wOMtrwGmzHm8d2Gn_1uvB_nfFDmVLB8KeSjCDSWfhw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E20A52A8-0C0A-4223-8909-3995D44159F9@gci.net>


On Jan 1, 2013, at 1:31 PM, Antonia di Benedetto Calvo <dama.antonia at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Jan 2, 2013 2:26 AM, "Susan Nalley" <alistrina at optonline.net> wrote:
>> 
>> Morgana yr Oerfa wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>> Dragons are only those very noisy things that fly in the sky and make
> outdoor court hard to hear occasionally.
>> 
>> 
>> Ahh, *That*s the perfect name for them!
> 
> Really? I tend to think they're best not remarked upon at all.
> 
> Antonia

It depends entirely on how annoying those military helicopters are being from the base next door (G). Although they weren't near as annoying as the tycho (spelling?) drum practice that broke out during investiture court a couple summers ago. They were sufficiently far away in theory, but oh my they were loud.

Morgana


From caer_mab at yahoo.com  Wed Jan  2 11:39:24 2013
From: caer_mab at yahoo.com (Arianwen ferch Arthur)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2013 11:39:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Brie tart
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1357070711.5122.sca-cooks-ansteorra.org@lists.ansteorra.org>
Message-ID: <1357155564.69432.YahooMailClassic@web164902.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

I need a source or recipe for a brie tart any suggestions?

Thanks

Arianwen ferch Arthur

"Outside of a dog a book is man's best friend. And inside of a dog it's too dark to read." G. Marx


From rcarrollmann at gmail.com  Wed Jan  2 12:11:41 2013
From: rcarrollmann at gmail.com (Robin Carroll-Mann)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2013 15:11:41 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Brie tart
In-Reply-To: <1357155564.69432.YahooMailClassic@web164902.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.1.1357070711.5122.sca-cooks-ansteorra.org@lists.ansteorra.org>
	<1357155564.69432.YahooMailClassic@web164902.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CA+tVTM+yAu40KADWC0rPeniMQ8s1bbBY5oOT6+Gt0Ci79W5KzQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 2:39 PM, Arianwen ferch Arthur
<caer_mab at yahoo.com> wrote:
> I need a source or recipe for a brie tart any suggestions?

Tart de Bry
http://www.godecookery.com/mtrans/mtrans40.htm

Brighid ni Chiarain

From dmyers at medievalcookery.com  Wed Jan  2 12:42:19 2013
From: dmyers at medievalcookery.com (Daniel Myers)
Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2013 13:42:19 -0700
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Brie tart
Message-ID: <20130102134219.ed12dd0b5fcfab5c7acb3c004d380fe9.541459bd87.wbe@email04.secureserver.net>



> -------- Original Message --------
> From: Arianwen ferch Arthur <caer_mab at yahoo.com>
> Date: Wed, January 02, 2013 2:39 pm
> 
> I need a source or recipe for a brie tart any suggestions?



Here's what I found with a quick search:


Tart de bry. Take rawe zolkes of egges, and gode fat chefe, and dresse
hit, and medel hit well togedur ; and do therto pouder of gynger, and of
canel, and sugur, and saffron, and do hit in a coffyn, and bake hit
toforefaid, and serve hit forthe.  [Ancient Cookery [Arundel 334],
(England, 1425)]

TART DE BRY. XX.VIII. VI. Take a Crust ynche depe in a trape. take
zolkes of Ayren rawe & chese ruayn. & medle it & ?e zolkes togyder. and
do ?erto powdour gyngur. sugur. safroun. and salt. do it in a trape,
bake it and serue it forth.  [Forme of Cury, (England, 1390)]

.Clxiiij. Tart debry. Take a crust ynche depe in a traup. take yolkes of
ayroun rawe. & chese ruayne. & medle hit & the yolkes to gyder. do
therto poudour ginger. sugur. safroun and salt. do hyt in a traup and
bake hyt and messe hyt forth.  [Fourme of Curye [Rylands MS 7],
(England, 1390)]

- Doc


From lilinah at earthlink.net  Wed Jan  2 13:23:15 2013
From: lilinah at earthlink.net (lilinah at earthlink.net)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2013 13:23:15 -0800 (GMT-08:00)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Ottoman "French" toast
Message-ID: <12930646.1357161795807.JavaMail.root@mswamui-chipeau.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

I'm slowly working my way through Shirvani's mid-15th c. collection of Ottoman recipes. Slowly because i don't know Turkish. I am using a translation of the Eski Osmanlica into modern Turkish because i have been unable to find anyone locally who can read (and thus teach me) this very archaic language - there was a significant change in the 16th c. alone (taking it from something like 12th c. Seljuk Turkish into something a little closer to modern Turkish), not to mention all the natural changes over the centuries plus several intentional governmental "reforms".

Anyway, today i translated a number of short recipes. One called Helva (halvah) involved whipping egg whites with starch, then frying several individual spoonfuls at a time in butter, and when they're all done, pouring hot honey over them and eating. Seems to me to be almost like fried meringues...

But what i've come to share is a mid-15th c. Ottoman "French" toast recipe - i can't recall who it was, but a number of years ago one of our members compiled all the recipes she could find that were like French toast, and this can join them.

(folio 112 recto)
Ekmek kayganasi
Bread kaygana

Ten eggs are placed in a bowl and beaten; a small amount of sifted flour joins until the batter becomes thick; salt is sown in it. Then slice ??fresh soft bread into thin slices, 
...the material will become cloudy/dim.

-- ASIDE --
This is what it says literally - i have a giant thick Turkish dictionary that Charles Perry recommended to me (Redhouse) and that is what it says. However, i assume that at this point 
...the bread slices are dipped into the batter.
-- END ASIDE --

These bread slices are fried in pure sweet butter. The slices are stacked on a tray, on top hot melted honey is poured, then it is served, and eaten.

Pretty simple. But apparently much enjoyed.

Source:
"15. Yuzul Osmanli Mutfagi", Muhammed bin Mahmud Shirvani
Translated and edited by Prof. Dr. Mustafa Argunshah - Dr. Mujgan Chakir
Gokkubbe, Istanbul, 2008
(title means "15th Century Ottoman Cuisine")


Urtatim (that's oor-tah-TEEM)

From jubeburris at yahoo.com  Wed Jan  2 13:32:00 2013
From: jubeburris at yahoo.com (julie burris)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2013 13:32:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Brie Tart
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1357157124.6094.sca-cooks-ansteorra.org@lists.ansteorra.org>
References: <mailman.1.1357157124.6094.sca-cooks-ansteorra.org@lists.ansteorra.org>
Message-ID: <1357162320.76790.YahooMailNeo@web160802.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>




>>>I need a source or recipe for a brie tart any suggestions?

>>>Thanks

>>>Arianwen ferch Arthur

Take a look at these 2 and see if they will work for you.

http://www.getting-medieval.com/my_weblog/2008/09/medieval-feast-recipes.html
http://www.godecookery.com/mtrans/mtrans40.htm

Maren

From alexbclark at pennswoods.net  Wed Jan  2 15:27:44 2013
From: alexbclark at pennswoods.net (Alexander Clark)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2013 18:27:44 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Dragaons (Was: Question remove vs course)
Message-ID: <CAKWJ1s2_z0NEMGEQwNJ9CXRrBRMeOBkygOWHzrbsrVRszR5KBw@mail.gmail.com>

Morgana wrote:
> It depends entirely on how annoying those military
> helicopters are being from the base next door (G). Although
> they weren't near as annoying as the tycho (spelling?) drum
> practice that broke out during investiture court a couple
> summers ago. They were sufficiently far away in theory, but
> oh my they were loud.

Taiko. An ancient instrument traditionally used to accompany other
instruments, only used in taiko ensembles for the last 60-some years
or so.

-- 
Henry/Alex

From jarukcomp at yahoo.com  Wed Jan  2 16:06:27 2013
From: jarukcomp at yahoo.com (Honour Horne-Jaruk)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2013 16:06:27 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Question remove vs course
In-Reply-To: <50E28630.9040601@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1357171587.48072.YahooMailClassic@web181005.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>


Respected friends:
--- On Tue, 1/1/13, Antonia di Benedetto Calvo <dama.antonia at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> We're largely free of autocrat (steward), troll ("gate"--
> I'd like to get this upgraded to warden or porter or
> something)  
> 
> -- Antonia di Benedetto Calvo
The English called the person who collected the tolls the tollner - by the same process that produced player and weaver. I always liked it.

Yours in service to both the Societies of which I am a member-
(Friend) Honour Horne-Jaruk, R.S.F.
Alizaundre de Brebeuf, C.O.L. S.C.A.- AKA Una the wisewoman, or That Pict

"If you're a normal human, the inside of your head is not a pretty
place. Venting it unfiltered to the internet may feel therapeutic,
but it's unlikely to end well."
--Goedjn




From johnnae at mac.com  Wed Jan  2 16:36:10 2013
From: johnnae at mac.com (Johnna Holloway)
Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2013 19:36:10 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Ottoman "French" toast
In-Reply-To: <12930646.1357161795807.JavaMail.root@mswamui-chipeau.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <12930646.1357161795807.JavaMail.root@mswamui-chipeau.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <7009B83B-A91C-46B0-BFED-89DF13F5F990@mac.com>

possibly now in the florilegium as
'From Lost Bread to French Toast' by Christianna MacGrain.

http://www.florilegium.org/?http%3A//www.florilegium.org/files/FOOD-BREADS/French-Toast-art.html

Johnnae

On Jan 2, 2013, at 4:23 PM, lilinah at earthlink.net wrote: snipped
> 
> But what i've come to share is a mid-15th c. Ottoman "French" toast recipe - i can't recall who it was, but a number of years ago one of our members compiled all the recipes she could find that were like French toast, and this can join them.
> 
> (folio 112 recto)
> Ekmek kayganasi
> Bread kaygana
> 
> Ten eggs are placed in a bowl and beaten; a small amount of sifted flour joins until the batter becomes thick; salt is sown in it. Then slice ??fresh soft bread into thin slices, 
> ...the material will become cloudy/dim.
> 
> -- ASIDE --
> This is what it says literally - i have a giant thick Turkish dictionary that Charles Perry recommended to me (Redhouse) and that is what it says. However, i assume that at this point 
> ...the bread slices are dipped into the batter.
> -- END ASIDE --
> 
> These bread slices are fried in pure sweet butter. The slices are stacked on a tray, on top hot melted honey is poured, then it is served, and eaten.
> 
> Pretty simple. But apparently much enjoyed.
> 
> Source:
> "15. Yuzul Osmanli Mutfagi", Muhammed bin Mahmud Shirvani
> Translated and edited by Prof. Dr. Mustafa Argunshah - Dr. Mujgan Chakir
> Gokkubbe, Istanbul, 2008
> (title means "15th Century Ottoman Cuisine")
> 
> 
> Urtatim (that's oor-tah-TEEM)

From lilinah at earthlink.net  Wed Jan  2 17:10:47 2013
From: lilinah at earthlink.net (lilinah at earthlink.net)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2013 17:10:47 -0800 (GMT-08:00)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Ottoman "French" toast
Message-ID: <19436691.1357175447746.JavaMail.root@mswamui-chipeau.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

I wrote:
[snipped]
> But what i've come to share is a mid-15th c. Ottoman "French" toast recipe - i can't 
> recall who it was, but a number of years ago one of our members compiled all the recipes 
> she could find that were like French toast, and this can join them.

Johnna Holloway replied:
> possibly now in the florilegium as 'From Lost Bread to French Toast' by Christianna 
> MacGrain.
> http://www.florilegium.org/?http%3A//www.florilegium.org/files/FOOD-BREADS/French-Toast-art.html

Thank you, Johnna. That is indeed it. I knew it was in the Florilegium, but was too, uh, preoccupied, to look.

Urtatim (that's oor-tah-TEEM)

From kgormanshaw at gmail.com  Wed Jan  2 17:39:22 2013
From: kgormanshaw at gmail.com (Kathleen Gormanshaw)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2013 20:39:22 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Videos on Kitchen safety and how to use a knife
Message-ID: <CAGpjMy0eDfcSf1fnm+cDd6K4OJrPBTY-U5ZHQLXjvXB5h_iFLA@mail.gmail.com>

My son will be helping in a feast kitchen in February, and I'd like him to
watch some videos on kitchen safety, especially things we don't think about
at home but might be relevant in a bigger kitchen like cross-contamination.
 I'd also like one on how to properly cut with a knife.  He doesn't listen
to Mom nearly as well as he listens to outside experts.  He's 8, but I'd
like something aimed at an average cook, not a kid, but not an expert;
30-60 minutes in length for each topic.

Any recommendations?

Thanks!

Eyrny

From lilinah at earthlink.net  Wed Jan  2 17:44:11 2013
From: lilinah at earthlink.net (lilinah at earthlink.net)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2013 17:44:11 -0800 (GMT-08:00)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Ottoman "French" toast
Message-ID: <5600526.1357177451708.JavaMail.root@mswamui-chipeau.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

I wrote:
> Then slice ??fresh soft bread into thin slices...

Those question marks should NOT be there. Don't know how they insinuated themselves into my e-mail. I know i didn't have any unusual characters there...

Urtatim (that's oor-tah-TEEM) 


From StefanliRous at austin.rr.com  Wed Jan  2 18:13:46 2013
From: StefanliRous at austin.rr.com (Stefan li Rous)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2013 20:13:46 -0600
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Ottoman "French" toast
Message-ID: <24BBAC2E-1E8D-4DEE-A391-7A0735D2B786@austin.rr.com>

Urtatim said:
<<< But what i've come to share is a mid-15th c. Ottoman "French" toast recipe - i can't recall who it was, but a number of years ago one of our members compiled all the recipes she could find that were like French toast, and this can join them. >>>

Perhaps one of these?
3-F-Toast-Rec-art (8K) 8/17/03 "Period French Toast Recipes"
by Lady Hauviette d'Anjou.
http://www.florilegium.org/files/FOOD-BREADS/3-F-Toast-Rec-art.html

French-Toast-art (27K) 3/31/00 "From Lost Bread to French Toast" by
Christianna MacGrain.
http://www.florilegium.org/files/FOOD-BREADS/French-Toast-art.html

French-Toast-msg (21K) 11/14/04 Period French Toast. Recipes.
http://www.florilegium.org/files/FOOD-BREADS/French-Toast-msg.html

Thank you for this recipe. I will add it to the third file.

Stefan
(Yes, the Florilegium still exists?)

--------
THLord Stefan li Rous    Barony of Bryn Gwlad    Kingdom of Ansteorra
   Mark S. Harris           Austin, Texas          StefanliRous at austin.rr.com
http://www.linkedin.com/in/marksharris
**** See Stefan's Florilegium files at:  http://www.florilegium.org ****







From johnnae at mac.com  Wed Jan  2 18:33:41 2013
From: johnnae at mac.com (Johnna Holloway)
Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2013 21:33:41 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Videos on Kitchen safety and how to use a knife
In-Reply-To: <CAGpjMy0eDfcSf1fnm+cDd6K4OJrPBTY-U5ZHQLXjvXB5h_iFLA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGpjMy0eDfcSf1fnm+cDd6K4OJrPBTY-U5ZHQLXjvXB5h_iFLA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <EA502C13-E09B-4FF3-9BB0-26DDDD8C8F52@mac.com>

Maybe ehow.com would have what you want.

Johnnae

On Jan 2, 2013, at 8:39 PM, Kathleen Gormanshaw wrote:

> My son will be helping in a feast kitchen in February, and I'd like him to
> watch some videos on kitchen safety, especially things we don't think about
> at home but might be relevant in a bigger kitchen like cross-contamination.
> I'd also like one on how to properly cut with a knife.  He doesn't listen
> to Mom nearly as well as he listens to outside experts.  He's 8, but I'd
> like something aimed at an average cook, not a kid, but not an expert;
> 30-60 minutes in length for each topic.
> 
> Any recommendations?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Eyrny

From richenda.du.jardin at gmail.com  Wed Jan  2 18:42:32 2013
From: richenda.du.jardin at gmail.com (Richenda du Jardin)
Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2013 18:42:32 -0800
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Videos on Kitchen safety and how to use a knife
In-Reply-To: <EA502C13-E09B-4FF3-9BB0-26DDDD8C8F52@mac.com>
References: <CAGpjMy0eDfcSf1fnm+cDd6K4OJrPBTY-U5ZHQLXjvXB5h_iFLA@mail.gmail.com>
	<EA502C13-E09B-4FF3-9BB0-26DDDD8C8F52@mac.com>
Message-ID: <50E4F018.5050907@gmail.com>

I found the book "Mastering Knife Skills" very useful - and it comes 
with a CD demonstrating the lessons.  It's available through Amazon.

Richenda

On 1/2/2013 6:33 PM, Johnna Holloway wrote:
> Maybe ehow.com would have what you want.
>
> Johnnae
>
> On Jan 2, 2013, at 8:39 PM, Kathleen Gormanshaw wrote:
>
>> My son will be helping in a feast kitchen in February, and I'd like him to
>> watch some videos on kitchen safety, especially things we don't think about
>> at home but might be relevant in a bigger kitchen like cross-contamination.
>> I'd also like one on how to properly cut with a knife.  He doesn't listen
>> to Mom nearly as well as he listens to outside experts.  He's 8, but I'd
>> like something aimed at an average cook, not a kid, but not an expert;
>> 30-60 minutes in length for each topic.
>>
>> Any recommendations?
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Eyrny
> _______________________________________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org


From t.d.decker at att.net  Wed Jan  2 19:03:41 2013
From: t.d.decker at att.net (Terry Decker)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2013 21:03:41 -0600
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Holiday dining and Santa Stuff
In-Reply-To: <0060E4C0-E995-49E4-953A-B2E3B9E84251@mac.com>
References: <0060E4C0-E995-49E4-953A-B2E3B9E84251@mac.com>
Message-ID: <5CD76951C7BF4707B9E8562219C26347@TerryPC>

We were at our place in New Mexico for Christmas and New Year's.  For 
Christmas it was turkey breast and lamb sided by squash, mashed potatoes, 
bread dressing, Lutheran binder and cranberry sauce with date nut bread, 
pumpkin pie, cherry pie and some store bought rolls to reduce the time.  New 
Year's we were with friends in St. Golias and had another loaf of date nut 
bread, a cinnamon braid and choclate chip cookies.

We;re on the way back to Norman and another round of packing and cleaning.

Bear


> The List has been rather quiet. Maybe like me, most of you have been 
> traveling.
>
> I am reminded that We used to celebrate and share what we were served and 
> ate over the holidays.
> To get that ball rolling, we had lamb for Christmas lunch, pannetoni, 
> stollen, cookies, and meringue mice for munchies, and for supper ate 
> popcorn while at the evening showing of "Les Mis" that evening.
>
> New Years will be at home with either steaks or a prime rib roast, 
> depending on the weather. Can I grill or not? We arrived home to snow.
> Salad, potatoes, maybe a pie.
>
> Santa brought me the six volume set of A Cultural History of Food and 
> Modernist Cuisine at Home for which I am very grateful.
>
> Johnnae


From johnnae at mac.com  Wed Jan  2 19:15:36 2013
From: johnnae at mac.com (Johnna Holloway)
Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2013 22:15:36 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Videos on Kitchen safety and how to use a knife
In-Reply-To: <50E4F018.5050907@gmail.com>
References: <CAGpjMy0eDfcSf1fnm+cDd6K4OJrPBTY-U5ZHQLXjvXB5h_iFLA@mail.gmail.com>
	<EA502C13-E09B-4FF3-9BB0-26DDDD8C8F52@mac.com>
	<50E4F018.5050907@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <270C15B6-D56E-466F-B5F5-3BA506F78574@mac.com>

Jessica's Biscuit has dvds on skills etc.
http://www.ecookbooks.com/nsearch.aspx?keywords=dvd&x=12&y=4

Besides Julia Child, there's Jacques Pepin's The Complete Pepin.
408 minutes on two DVDs.

Johnnae

On Jan 2, 2013, at 9:42 PM, Richenda du Jardin wrote:

> I found the book "Mastering Knife Skills" very useful - and it comes with a CD demonstrating the lessons.  It's available through Amazon.
> 
> Richenda
> 
> On 1/2/2013 6:33 PM, Johnna Holloway wrote:
>> Maybe ehow.com would have what you want.
>> 
>> Johnnae
>> 
>> On Jan 2, 2013, at 8:39 PM, Kathleen Gormanshaw wrote:
>> 
>>> My son will be helping in a feast kitchen in February, and I'd like him to
>>> watch some videos on kitchen safety, especially things we don't think about
>>> at home but might be relevant in a bigger kitchen like cross-contamination.
>>> I'd also like one on how to properly cut with a knife.  
> _______________________________________________


From jimandandi at cox.net  Wed Jan  2 20:42:16 2013
From: jimandandi at cox.net (Jim and Andi Houston)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2013 23:42:16 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Holiday dining and Santa Stuff
In-Reply-To: <0060E4C0-E995-49E4-953A-B2E3B9E84251@mac.com>
References: <0060E4C0-E995-49E4-953A-B2E3B9E84251@mac.com>
Message-ID: <1ee201cde96c$b63d41a0$22b7c4e0$@cox.net>

I am unabashedly proud of our Christmas feast... I cooked a 30 pound pig in
the brick firepit on the back patio of our new house, and each member of my
family brought one dish to contribute to the feast. Even my kids each chose
a recipe and cooked it themselves. We had black beans, yellow rice, fried
plantains, corn pudding, sweet potato and pineapple curry, mashed sweet
potatoes, a huge cheese and charcuterie board, ice cream cake, and banana
pudding. There's pictures here if anyone's interested:

http://www.greenbasket.me/2012/12/27/our-christmas-pig-roast/

Madhavi


-----Original Message-----
From: sca-cooks-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org
[mailto:sca-cooks-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org] On Behalf Of Johnna Holloway
Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 7:45 PM
To: Cooks within the SCA
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Holiday dining and Santa Stuff

The List has been rather quiet. Maybe like me, most of you have been
traveling. 

I am reminded that We used to celebrate and share what we were served and
ate over the holidays.
To get that ball rolling, we had lamb for Christmas lunch, pannetoni,
stollen, cookies, and meringue mice for munchies, and for supper ate popcorn
while at the evening showing of "Les Mis" that evening. 

New Years will be at home with either steaks or a prime rib roast, depending
on the weather. Can I grill or not? We arrived home to snow.
Salad, potatoes, maybe a pie.

Santa brought me the six volume set of A Cultural History of Food and
Modernist Cuisine at Home for which I am very grateful.

Johnnae

Sent from my iPad
_______________________________________________
Sca-cooks mailing list
Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org


From susanrlin at gmail.com  Wed Jan  2 21:38:18 2013
From: susanrlin at gmail.com (Susan Lin)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2013 22:38:18 -0700
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Holiday dining and Santa Stuff
In-Reply-To: <1ee201cde96c$b63d41a0$22b7c4e0$@cox.net>
References: <0060E4C0-E995-49E4-953A-B2E3B9E84251@mac.com>
	<1ee201cde96c$b63d41a0$22b7c4e0$@cox.net>
Message-ID: <CAHkO8TR2OJMz4BZB=arYgN2u+busHqex7jLE2GQkmM=8ioc9aw@mail.gmail.com>

Looks pretty darn amazing.  Thanks for sharing the pictures.
We cooked a wild pig last year - emu pit style - we thought it would be
tough and dry but it also came out very nicely.

Shoshanah

On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 9:42 PM, Jim and Andi Houston <jimandandi at cox.net>wrote:

> I am unabashedly proud of our Christmas feast... I cooked a 30 pound pig in
> the brick firepit on the back patio of our new house, and each member of my
> family brought one dish to contribute to the feast. Even my kids each chose
> a recipe and cooked it themselves. We had black beans, yellow rice, fried
> plantains, corn pudding, sweet potato and pineapple curry, mashed sweet
> potatoes, a huge cheese and charcuterie board, ice cream cake, and banana
> pudding. There's pictures here if anyone's interested:
>
> http://www.greenbasket.me/2012/12/27/our-christmas-pig-roast/
>
> Madhavi
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: sca-cooks-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org
> [mailto:sca-cooks-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org] On Behalf Of Johnna
> Holloway
> Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 7:45 PM
> To: Cooks within the SCA
> Subject: [Sca-cooks] Holiday dining and Santa Stuff
>
> The List has been rather quiet. Maybe like me, most of you have been
> traveling.
>
> I am reminded that We used to celebrate and share what we were served and
> ate over the holidays.
> To get that ball rolling, we had lamb for Christmas lunch, pannetoni,
> stollen, cookies, and meringue mice for munchies, and for supper ate
> popcorn
> while at the evening showing of "Les Mis" that evening.
>
> New Years will be at home with either steaks or a prime rib roast,
> depending
> on the weather. Can I grill or not? We arrived home to snow.
> Salad, potatoes, maybe a pie.
>
> Santa brought me the six volume set of A Cultural History of Food and
> Modernist Cuisine at Home for which I am very grateful.
>
> Johnnae
>
> Sent from my iPad
> _______________________________________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org
>

From ddfr at daviddfriedman.com  Wed Jan  2 21:58:15 2013
From: ddfr at daviddfriedman.com (David Friedman)
Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2013 00:58:15 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Question remove vs. course.
In-Reply-To: <IDEHICPIJOEBPADHEOGPEEHNEGAB.otsisto@socket.net>
References: <IDEHICPIJOEBPADHEOGPEEHNEGAB.otsisto@socket.net>
Message-ID: <50E51DF7.5000706@daviddfriedman.com>

You have encountered one of the standard SCA errors. "Remove" is a 
post-period term for a subcourse--a dish in a course removed before the 
rest of the course, or the dish that replaces it. Someone in the SCA at 
some time in the past mistakenly thought it was a period term for 
course, and since people in the SCA like to show off how knowledgeable 
they are and are often not very careful about making sure that what they 
know is true, the idea spread.

"Course" is indeed the period English term.

On 12/30/12 4:15 AM, otsisto wrote:
> Today a cook for an upcoming event said that the correct term was called
> remove not course, I said the term is course. I was then corrected by the
> rest at the meeting that what is served at feasts are removes and not
> courses. Memory fails me. I always thought it was course, is it remove?????
>
> De
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org
>
>

-- 
David/Cariadoc
www.daviddfriedman.com
http://daviddfriedman.blogspot.com/


From caer_mab at yahoo.com  Wed Jan  2 22:19:48 2013
From: caer_mab at yahoo.com (Arianwen ferch Arthur)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2013 22:19:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Brie Tart
In-Reply-To: <mailman.66121.1357177184.34820.sca-cooks-ansteorra.org@lists.ansteorra.org>
Message-ID: <1357193988.80189.YahooMailClassic@web164904.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

Thanks for the sources (and one even answered my thought about do you use ALL the cheese...)

Arianwen ferch Arthur

"Outside of a dog a book is man's best friend. And inside of a dog it's too dark to read." G. Marx**************

From canatsey86 at gmail.com  Wed Jan  2 22:26:40 2013
From: canatsey86 at gmail.com (Christopher Canatsey)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 06:26:40 +0000
Subject: [Sca-cooks] My first Feast - what worked and what didn't
Message-ID: <1089624306-1357194405-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-578232336-@b27.c6.bise6.blackberry>

Here in Trimaris, the annual Hero of the Chalice event has come and gone. It is hosted by the Barony of Wyvernwoode (the Tampa Bay area), and was home to my very first Feast :). The Feast was themed around war, and almost all the dishes were pulled from the Plain Faire collection of camp recipes courtesy from the Kingdom of Drakenwald. 

I've been working on a blog entry for how it went and my impressions, but I figured I would share my what worked and what didn't with the group. Special thanks to my Laurel for letting me make my mistakes so I could learn from them!

What worked:

. Pre-planning, dear lord I cannot praise this enough. 

Multiple copies of my recipes and schedules saved me many a time, and countless tests of each dish let me know immediately if something was working or not. Keeping my Royals in mind saved me when our Paleo diet King surprised us by dropping in, planning with him in mind I was able to ensure he could eat most dishes in each course. 

. Knowing when to trust, and when to do myself was spot on. 

I knew I could trust my Hall Steward to handle servers, heralding, decoration and food distribution once it was plated and handed off. All day I had server/seating/decor questions and all day the answer was "speak with my Hall Steward", because I knew I could trust her totally! I also knew that sometimes the quickest route was doing it myself, which I felt safe doing because I trusted the help in my kitchen. Too often I've seen messengers delayed/distracted when the head cook NEEDS and answer, so I resolved this problem by finding the answer myself when it was most important. Its not that I didn't trust them; I just knew the messages would be passed accurately and quickly if I did it, and I trusted my kitchen help to stay to task.

. Mandatory rest!

I scheduled time to rest, which was key to me being successful I feel. I made sure to set time aside for me to sit and eat, to take time to converse with friends and even a small meditation break to calm my nerves. Keeping myself hydrated and rested really helped me steel my nerves during crunch time.

What didn't work:

. Know when to plan, know when to go with the flow!

I am a rather organized and scheduled person by nature, and its a habit for me to try and schedule everything. One thing that didn't fit my schedule no matter how hard I tried was court/royal timetables. Court ran late, and thus the mood of the gentles eating changed as they desired chitchat time prior to and during the first course. Also I should have checked with the lyst field for lunch, while lunch was set for noon the fighters didn't finish a set till 12:30 thus delaying lunch. In the future, being more flexible during these flux times is key.

. Take more than I need, instead of exactly what I need.

The camp we were using has a good amount of cookware available to be used, but you have to check it all out for loan. I'm always nervous about other peoples gear, so I checked out exactly what I needed instead of a few pieces extra just in case. The idea was to lessen my stress AND have less dishes to wash, except that it turned out I needed extra pots and pans quicker than I had thought. I was scrambling to wash dishes, and later scrambling to get extra pots when I should have been resting. The same goes for milk and creamer, I thought what I had was enough exact but there are a GREAT many more coffee drinkers than I had counted on.

I'll link the blogpost when finished, just thought I'd share some of the lessons learned :)

 - Christoff Koch
~With great cupcakes, comes great responsibility.~

From sprucebranch at gmail.com  Wed Jan  2 22:35:47 2013
From: sprucebranch at gmail.com (Ian Kusz)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2013 22:35:47 -0800
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Videos on Kitchen safety and how to use a knife
In-Reply-To: <CAGpjMy0eDfcSf1fnm+cDd6K4OJrPBTY-U5ZHQLXjvXB5h_iFLA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGpjMy0eDfcSf1fnm+cDd6K4OJrPBTY-U5ZHQLXjvXB5h_iFLA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHofC-RuEbL_F9LQhiv5ffaszdzaOKVCwEK79CVGpdEdcgug1Q@mail.gmail.com>

On one of the episodes of "No Reservations," Anthony Bourdain shows how to
use a knife.
Jamie Oliver does it on some of the episodes of "Oliver's Twist," too.

On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 5:39 PM, Kathleen Gormanshaw
<kgormanshaw at gmail.com>wrote:

> My son will be helping in a feast kitchen in February, and I'd like him to
> watch some videos on kitchen safety, especially things we don't think about
> at home but might be relevant in a bigger kitchen like cross-contamination.
>  I'd also like one on how to properly cut with a knife.  He doesn't listen
> to Mom nearly as well as he listens to outside experts.  He's 8, but I'd
> like something aimed at an average cook, not a kid, but not an expert;
> 30-60 minutes in length for each topic.
>
> Any recommendations?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Eyrny
> _______________________________________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org
>



-- 
Ian of Oertha

From sprucebranch at gmail.com  Wed Jan  2 22:49:59 2013
From: sprucebranch at gmail.com (Ian Kusz)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2013 22:49:59 -0800
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Question remove vs. course.
In-Reply-To: <50E51DF7.5000706@daviddfriedman.com>
References: <IDEHICPIJOEBPADHEOGPEEHNEGAB.otsisto@socket.net>
	<50E51DF7.5000706@daviddfriedman.com>
Message-ID: <CAHofC-RmVZCM9ok3OXYdUR3NtgNsztM+w5Z9i-VC1HvuQF7Mzg@mail.gmail.com>

been thinking this for AGES.

Remove Curse is a 3rd-level cleric spell.

heh heh heh

On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 9:58 PM, David Friedman <ddfr at daviddfriedman.com>wrote:

> You have encountered one of the standard SCA errors. "Remove" is a
> post-period term for a subcourse--a dish in a course removed before the
> rest of the course, or the dish that replaces it. Someone in the SCA at
> some time in the past mistakenly thought it was a period term for course,
> and since people in the SCA like to show off how knowledgeable they are and
> are often not very careful about making sure that what they know is true,
> the idea spread.
>
> "Course" is indeed the period English term.
>
>
> On 12/30/12 4:15 AM, otsisto wrote:
>
>> Today a cook for an upcoming event said that the correct term was called
>> remove not course, I said the term is course. I was then corrected by the
>> rest at the meeting that what is served at feasts are removes and not
>> courses. Memory fails me. I always thought it was course, is it
>> remove?????
>>
>> De
>>
>>
>> ______________________________**_________________
>> Sca-cooks mailing list
>> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
>> http://lists.ansteorra.org/**listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-**ansteorra.org<http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org>
>>
>>
>>
> --
> David/Cariadoc
> www.daviddfriedman.com
> http://daviddfriedman.**blogspot.com/<http://daviddfriedman.blogspot.com/>
>
>
> ______________________________**_________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/**listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-**ansteorra.org<http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org>
>



-- 
Ian of Oertha

From dephelps at embarqmail.com  Thu Jan  3 04:16:22 2013
From: dephelps at embarqmail.com (Daniel And elizabeth phelps)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 07:16:22 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Videos on Kitchen safety and how to use a knife
In-Reply-To: <CAHofC-RuEbL_F9LQhiv5ffaszdzaOKVCwEK79CVGpdEdcgug1Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1564009556.768684.1357215382686.JavaMail.root@md11.embarq.synacor.com>

When ever I have a group of people working at joint tasks that involve danger to digits I always tell everyone before we start to hold up their hands and count their fingers.  I then tell them that afterwards I expect the same count.  

Daniel

----- Original Message -----
On one of the episodes of "No Reservations," Anthony Bourdain shows how to
use a knife.
Jamie Oliver does it on some of the episodes of "Oliver's Twist," too.

On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 5:39 PM, Kathleen Gormanshaw
<kgormanshaw at gmail.com>wrote:

> My son will be helping in a feast kitchen in February, and I'd like him to
> watch some videos on kitchen safety, especially things we don't think about
> at home but might be relevant in a bigger kitchen like cross-contamination.
>  I'd also like one on how to properly cut with a knife.  He doesn't listen
> to Mom nearly as well as he listens to outside experts.  He's 8, but I'd
> like something aimed at an average cook, not a kid, but not an expert;
> 30-60 minutes in length for each topic.
>
> Any recommendations?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Eyrny
> _______________________________________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org
>



-- 
Ian of Oertha
_______________________________________________
Sca-cooks mailing list
Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org

From johnnae at mac.com  Thu Jan  3 05:08:17 2013
From: johnnae at mac.com (Johnna Holloway)
Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2013 08:08:17 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Videos on Kitchen safety and how to use a knife
In-Reply-To: <1564009556.768684.1357215382686.JavaMail.root@md11.embarq.synacor.com>
References: <1564009556.768684.1357215382686.JavaMail.root@md11.embarq.synacor.com>
Message-ID: <41807626-5F50-4B51-A7E3-E5274B982B29@mac.com>

>> My son will be helping in a feast kitchen in February, and I'd like him to
>> watch some videos on kitchen safety, especially things we don't think about
>> at home but might be relevant in a bigger kitchen like cross-contamination.
>> I'd also like one on how to properly cut with a knife.  

The other thought I had is that you might call your local library and ask if they have 
anything in terms of dvds that can be borrowed on the subject. They may well have
or carry instructional dvds.

Johnnae

From sprucebranch at gmail.com  Thu Jan  3 06:40:30 2013
From: sprucebranch at gmail.com (Ian Kusz)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 06:40:30 -0800
Subject: [Sca-cooks] how to use a knife; a knife? That's not a knife
Message-ID: <CAHofC-TaUq1fnQupGws66d+vrpAOb2WsRe6Rf_Cc_BHcP2obQw@mail.gmail.com>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4iXtDYOso1o


On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 5:08 AM, Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com> wrote:

> >> My son will be helping in a feast kitchen in February, and I'd like him
> to
> >> watch some videos on kitchen safety, especially things we don't think
> about
> >> at home but might be relevant in a bigger kitchen like
> cross-contamination.
> >> I'd also like one on how to properly cut with a knife.
>
> The other thought I had is that you might call your local library and ask
> if they have
> anything in terms of dvds that can be borrowed on the subject. They may
> well have
> or carry instructional dvds.
>
> Johnnae
> _______________________________________________
>
>


-- 
Ian of Oertha

From vandraedha at charter.net  Thu Jan  3 09:42:31 2013
From: vandraedha at charter.net (vandraedha at charter.net)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 09:42:31 -0800
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Videos on Kitchen safety and how to use a knife
In-Reply-To: <CAGpjMy0eDfcSf1fnm+cDd6K4OJrPBTY-U5ZHQLXjvXB5h_iFLA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGpjMy0eDfcSf1fnm+cDd6K4OJrPBTY-U5ZHQLXjvXB5h_iFLA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0CCECC9C-7953-4231-8894-F6247989D93A@charter.net>


On Jan 2, 2013, at 5:39 PM, Kathleen Gormanshaw <kgormanshaw at gmail.com> wrote:

> My son will be helping in a feast kitchen in February, and I'd like him to
> watch some videos on kitchen safety, especially things we don't think about
> at home but might be relevant in a bigger kitchen like cross-contamination.
> I'd also like one on how to properly cut with a knife.  He doesn't listen
> to Mom nearly as well as he listens to outside experts.  He's 8, but I'd
> like something aimed at an average cook, not a kid, but not an expert;
> 30-60 minutes in length for each topic.
> 
> Any recommendations?

In addition to the offerings by other commenters, I have a few more possibilities for you to consider:

If you want him to use knife skills in the kitchen at a feast, I'd recommend you practice with him using your preferred method (knife to food or food to knife) for quite a while before the feast so that you are both comfortable with his practices.

For food to knife technique (how Julia Childs did it), you might like the segments that Alton Brown has done for the Food Network/Good Eats at least one is available on YouTube (http://youtube.com/watch?v=pKgGlpe45t0). He explains a lot of the mechanics and whys of not just cutting, slicing & chopping, but also choosing the right knife and surface for the job. He doesn't have the best skills, but he breaks the technique down in a way that may be easier for a novice cook to understand.

For kitchen sanitation, You might be interested in the USDA videos and pamphlets on food safety that have been posted to this list a few times. Here's a fresh link to their website in case you haven't seen it:

http://www.fsis.usda.gov/Fact_Sheets/Cooking_For_Groups_Index/index.asp

Also, if he hasn't already done so, now would be a great time for him to take a course on Adult & Child Basic CPR & First Aid (such as the ones offered by various guide/scouting organizations). Prior knowledge of how to take care of someone else with burns, cuts, falls, choking, and anaphylaxis can really help him be more calm and comfortable if an emergency (major or minor) does develop in the kitchen or dining room.

-- 
YiS,
Anne
from my phone


From sjk3 at cornell.edu  Thu Jan  3 10:19:38 2013
From: sjk3 at cornell.edu (Sandra J. Kisner)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 18:19:38 +0000
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Videos on Kitchen safety and how to use a knife
In-Reply-To: <0CCECC9C-7953-4231-8894-F6247989D93A@charter.net>
References: <CAGpjMy0eDfcSf1fnm+cDd6K4OJrPBTY-U5ZHQLXjvXB5h_iFLA@mail.gmail.com>
	<0CCECC9C-7953-4231-8894-F6247989D93A@charter.net>
Message-ID: <7B8A89ED3D40804FAFCAD801AAC89C6409063E0B@MBXD-02.exchange.cornell.edu>

>>For food to knife technique (how Julia Childs did it), you might like the segments that Alton Brown has done for the Food Network/Good Eats at least one is available on YouTube (http://youtube.com/watch?v=pKgGlpe45t0). He explains a lot of the mechanics and whys of not just cutting, slicing & chopping, but also choosing the right knife and surface for the job. He doesn't have the best skills, but he breaks the technique down in a way that may be easier for a novice cook to understand.<<

This sounds interesting, but apparently it's no longer available.

Sandra

From vandraedha at charter.net  Thu Jan  3 11:28:26 2013
From: vandraedha at charter.net (vandraedha at charter.net)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 11:28:26 -0800
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Videos on Kitchen safety and how to use a knife
In-Reply-To: <7B8A89ED3D40804FAFCAD801AAC89C6409063E0B@MBXD-02.exchange.cornell.edu>
References: <CAGpjMy0eDfcSf1fnm+cDd6K4OJrPBTY-U5ZHQLXjvXB5h_iFLA@mail.gmail.com>
	<0CCECC9C-7953-4231-8894-F6247989D93A@charter.net>
	<7B8A89ED3D40804FAFCAD801AAC89C6409063E0B@MBXD-02.exchange.cornell.edu>
Message-ID: <55A3E6EB-328B-426C-8CE2-0E22C26F087E@charter.net>


On Jan 3, 2013, at 10:19 AM, "Sandra J. Kisner" <sjk3 at cornell.edu> wrote:

>>> For food to knife technique (how Julia Childs did it), you might like the segments that Alton Brown has done for the Food Network/Good Eats at least one is available on YouTube (http://youtube.com/watch?v=pKgGlpe45t0).
> 
> This sounds interesting, but apparently it's no longer available.

My apologies, I mistyped the link. The correct address should be: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKgGlpe45T0

--
YiS,
Anne
from my phone

From richenda.du.jardin at gmail.com  Thu Jan  3 12:22:02 2013
From: richenda.du.jardin at gmail.com (Richenda du Jardin)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 12:22:02 -0800
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Videos on Kitchen safety and how to use a knife
In-Reply-To: <55A3E6EB-328B-426C-8CE2-0E22C26F087E@charter.net>
References: <CAGpjMy0eDfcSf1fnm+cDd6K4OJrPBTY-U5ZHQLXjvXB5h_iFLA@mail.gmail.com>
	<0CCECC9C-7953-4231-8894-F6247989D93A@charter.net>
	<7B8A89ED3D40804FAFCAD801AAC89C6409063E0B@MBXD-02.exchange.cornell.edu>
	<55A3E6EB-328B-426C-8CE2-0E22C26F087E@charter.net>
Message-ID: <CAHBPFx4xmwEnjQYZ9JwBKuZnoy23UY7MkHR=NWkFfLM5nZkm-A@mail.gmail.com>

Is that the segment where he is teaching his nephew to make soup? If
so, it's a really good introduction to knife skills for a preteen
because it addresses issues they are likely to have without talking
down to them. It explains matter-of-factly why a paring knife might be
a better choice than a chef's knife for them without belittling them.

Richenda

On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 11:28 AM,  <vandraedha at charter.net> wrote:
>
> On Jan 3, 2013, at 10:19 AM, "Sandra J. Kisner" <sjk3 at cornell.edu> wrote:
>
>>>> For food to knife technique (how Julia Childs did it), you might like the segments that Alton Brown has done for the Food Network/Good Eats at least one is available on YouTube (http://youtube.com/watch?v=pKgGlpe45t0).
>>
>> This sounds interesting, but apparently it's no longer available.
>
> My apologies, I mistyped the link. The correct address should be: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKgGlpe45T0
>
> --
> YiS,
> Anne
> from my phone
> _______________________________________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org

From karobert at unm.edu  Thu Jan  3 12:29:44 2013
From: karobert at unm.edu (Kathleen Roberts)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 20:29:44 +0000
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Videos on Kitchen safety and how to use a knife
In-Reply-To: <CAHBPFx4xmwEnjQYZ9JwBKuZnoy23UY7MkHR=NWkFfLM5nZkm-A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGpjMy0eDfcSf1fnm+cDd6K4OJrPBTY-U5ZHQLXjvXB5h_iFLA@mail.gmail.com>
	<0CCECC9C-7953-4231-8894-F6247989D93A@charter.net>
	<7B8A89ED3D40804FAFCAD801AAC89C6409063E0B@MBXD-02.exchange.cornell.edu>
	<55A3E6EB-328B-426C-8CE2-0E22C26F087E@charter.net>,
	<CAHBPFx4xmwEnjQYZ9JwBKuZnoy23UY7MkHR=NWkFfLM5nZkm-A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AF2F1DA7964D6344A6B72C61AC9AA953050B527E@CH1PRD0711MB432.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>

They actually had the Alton Brown one on the Cooking Channel a couple of weeks ago.  You might see if they are showing it again soon, or have it available on the website.

Cailte

Kathleen Roberts

Admissions Advisor

University of New Mexico

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Being Irish, he had an abiding sense of tragedy, which sustained him through temporary periods of joy."  W.B. Yeats



"The hand that rocks the ladle rules the world."  Nadia G.

________________________________________
From: sca-cooks-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org [sca-cooks-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org] on behalf of Richenda du Jardin [richenda.du.jardin at gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2013 1:22 PM
To: Cooks within the SCA
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Videos on Kitchen safety and how to use a knife

Is that the segment where he is teaching his nephew to make soup? If
so, it's a really good introduction to knife skills for a preteen
because it addresses issues they are likely to have without talking
down to them. It explains matter-of-factly why a paring knife might be
a better choice than a chef's knife for them without belittling them.

Richenda

On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 11:28 AM,  <vandraedha at charter.net> wrote:
>
> On Jan 3, 2013, at 10:19 AM, "Sandra J. Kisner" <sjk3 at cornell.edu> wrote:
>
>>>> For food to knife technique (how Julia Childs did it), you might like the segments that Alton Brown has done for the Food Network/Good Eats at least one is available on YouTube (http://youtube.com/watch?v=pKgGlpe45t0).
>>
>> This sounds interesting, but apparently it's no longer available.
>
> My apologies, I mistyped the link. The correct address should be: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKgGlpe45T0
>
> --
> YiS,
> Anne
> from my phone
> _______________________________________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org
_______________________________________________
Sca-cooks mailing list
Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org

From galefridus at optimum.net  Fri Jan  4 08:42:08 2013
From: galefridus at optimum.net (galefridus at optimum.net)
Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2013 16:42:08 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Black olives
Message-ID: <e50fe0b2161d5.50e70660@optonline.net>

Well, half of my black olives got infected with some kind of nastiness and turned to mush, so I had to discard them. But the other batch is doing quite well, and I'll shortly be proceeding to the next step of the cure.

Interestingly, the primary difference between the two batches was that in one, the olives were coated with oil prior to adding salt (the first step of the cure). The oil seems to have had some kind of preservative property, especially since there was a fair bit of cross contamination between the two batches.

The next step for the surviving batch will involve pickling the olives in an oxymel, prepared according to a recipe from Dioscorides. I'll continue to post updates as the cure proceeds.

-- Galefridus

From vandraedha at charter.net  Fri Jan  4 10:18:07 2013
From: vandraedha at charter.net (vandraedha at charter.net)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2013 10:18:07 -0800
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Videos on Kitchen safety and how to use a knife
In-Reply-To: <CAHBPFx4xmwEnjQYZ9JwBKuZnoy23UY7MkHR=NWkFfLM5nZkm-A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGpjMy0eDfcSf1fnm+cDd6K4OJrPBTY-U5ZHQLXjvXB5h_iFLA@mail.gmail.com>
	<0CCECC9C-7953-4231-8894-F6247989D93A@charter.net>
	<7B8A89ED3D40804FAFCAD801AAC89C6409063E0B@MBXD-02.exchange.cornell.edu>
	<55A3E6EB-328B-426C-8CE2-0E22C26F087E@charter.net>
	<CAHBPFx4xmwEnjQYZ9JwBKuZnoy23UY7MkHR=NWkFfLM5nZkm-A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <08266260-A341-447E-B00A-BA57CD83D35A@charter.net>


On Jan 3, 2013, at 12:22 PM, Richenda du Jardin <richenda.du.jardin at gmail.com> wrote:

> Is that the segment where he is teaching his nephew to make soup? If
> so, it's a really good introduction to knife skills for a preteen
> because it addresses issues they are likely to have without talking
> down to them. It explains matter-of-factly why a paring knife might be
> a better choice than a chef's knife for them without belittling them.
> 
> Richenda

No, unfortunately the link isn't to that episode. That's a great episode, and the primary one I was thinking of when I suggested Alton Brown. Sadly, I can't remember the name of that episode to help the OP to find the video.

--
YiS,
Anne
from my phone


From susanne.mayer5 at chello.at  Fri Jan  4 12:06:48 2013
From: susanne.mayer5 at chello.at (Susanne Mayer)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2013 21:06:48 +0100
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Videos on Kitchen safety and how to use a knife
In-Reply-To: <mailman.66944.1357234955.34820.sca-cooks-ansteorra.org@lists.ansteorra.org>
References: <mailman.66944.1357234955.34820.sca-cooks-ansteorra.org@lists.ansteorra.org>
Message-ID: <58DD21506A0E4B96A0890CC171091F18@SusiPC>

Hu, I stumbled over the US Government  food safety pages (from different 
agencies) and was amazed what things you can find there. I have yet to find 
such extensive  stuff in Europe.

There is the link to their video pages, maybe you'll find something suitable 
there.

http://www.foodsafety.gov/multimedia/index.html

And to the FDA pages

http://www.fda.gov/food/foodsafety/default.htm

and  this is a knife safety video for kids:

http://www.fitforafeast.com/knife_safety.htm

Hope that helps

Katharina
Drachenwald
Ad Flumen Caerulum

On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 5:39 PM, Kathleen Gormanshaw
<kgormanshaw at gmail.com>wrote:

> My son will be helping in a feast kitchen in February, and I'd like him to
> watch some videos on kitchen safety, especially things we don't think 
> about
> at home but might be relevant in a bigger kitchen like 
> cross-contamination.
>  I'd also like one on how to properly cut with a knife.  He doesn't listen
> to Mom nearly as well as he listens to outside experts.  He's 8, but I'd
> like something aimed at an average cook, not a kid, but not an expert;
> 30-60 minutes in length for each topic.
>
> Any recommendations?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Eyrny
> _______________________________________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org
>


From richenda.du.jardin at gmail.com  Fri Jan  4 17:25:31 2013
From: richenda.du.jardin at gmail.com (Richenda du Jardin)
Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2013 17:25:31 -0800
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Videos on Kitchen safety and how to use a knife
In-Reply-To: <08266260-A341-447E-B00A-BA57CD83D35A@charter.net>
References: <CAGpjMy0eDfcSf1fnm+cDd6K4OJrPBTY-U5ZHQLXjvXB5h_iFLA@mail.gmail.com>
	<0CCECC9C-7953-4231-8894-F6247989D93A@charter.net>
	<7B8A89ED3D40804FAFCAD801AAC89C6409063E0B@MBXD-02.exchange.cornell.edu>
	<55A3E6EB-328B-426C-8CE2-0E22C26F087E@charter.net>
	<CAHBPFx4xmwEnjQYZ9JwBKuZnoy23UY7MkHR=NWkFfLM5nZkm-A@mail.gmail.com>
	<08266260-A341-447E-B00A-BA57CD83D35A@charter.net>
Message-ID: <50E7810B.1090007@gmail.com>

On 1/4/2013 10:18 AM, vandraedha at charter.net wrote:
> On Jan 3, 2013, at 12:22 PM, Richenda du Jardin <richenda.du.jardin at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Is that the segment where he is teaching his nephew to make soup? If
>> so, it's a really good introduction to knife skills for a preteen
>> because it addresses issues they are likely to have without talking
>> down to them. It explains matter-of-factly why a paring knife might be
>> a better choice than a chef's knife for them without belittling them.
>>
>> Richenda
> No, unfortunately the link isn't to that episode. That's a great episode, and the primary one I was thinking of when I suggested Alton Brown. Sadly, I can't remember the name of that episode to help the OP to find the video.
>
> --
> YiS,
> Anne
> from my phone
The episode is called "Soups On" - but finding the video of the ep may 
be a bit difficult. I don't know if Vudu, Hulu, or Netflix carries the 
series.

Richenda

> _______________________________________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org


From StefanliRous at austin.rr.com  Sat Jan  5 14:34:49 2013
From: StefanliRous at austin.rr.com (Stefan li Rous)
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2013 16:34:49 -0600
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Black olives
Message-ID: <51090537-CFC6-43D9-9D23-418681DBEEF2@austin.rr.com>

Galefridus said:
<<< Well, half of my black olives got infected with some kind of nastiness and turned to mush, so I had to discard them. >>>

Yuck.

<<< But the other batch is doing quite well, and I'll shortly be proceeding to the next step of the cure.

Interestingly, the primary difference between the two batches was that in one, the olives were coated with oil prior to adding salt (the first step of the cure). The oil seems to have had some kind of preservative property, especially since there was a fair bit of cross contamination between the two batches. >>>

What sort of oil did you use? Olive oil?

<<< The next step for the surviving batch will involve pickling the olives in an oxymel, prepared according to a recipe from Dioscorides. I'll continue to post updates as the cure proceeds. >>>

I'm looking forward to seeing your further reports and hopefully a paper or a summation of the whole project.

Stefan

--------
THLord Stefan li Rous    Barony of Bryn Gwlad    Kingdom of Ansteorra
   Mark S. Harris           Austin, Texas          StefanliRous at austin.rr.com
http://www.linkedin.com/in/marksharris
**** See Stefan's Florilegium files at:  http://www.florilegium.org ****







From carlton_bach at yahoo.de  Tue Jan  8 02:36:18 2013
From: carlton_bach at yahoo.de (Volker Bach)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2013 10:36:18 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Academic events in 2013?
Message-ID: <1357641378.77085.YahooMailNeo@web171703.mail.ir2.yahoo.com>

Salvete,


I've been lucky in getting a grant to attend a conferencbe this year, and I'm wondering which one would be best. The money probvably won't stretch to transatlantic flights, unfortunately. My first idea was the Oxford Symposium, though it does conflict with an SCA event I wm supposed to cook at. So I wanted to ask if anyone can think of any other culinary history themed event that would be worth attending. I can't seem to find any mention of a 2013 Leeds Symposium. Anything else?

Thanks

Giano

From the.red.ross at gmail.com  Tue Jan  8 12:46:45 2013
From: the.red.ross at gmail.com (Stephani Ross)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2013 15:46:45 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Academic events in 2013?
Message-ID: <CALE-c-2Jo01jaFDy=MjmQKDHJRh_OvwUHJEt2rYtp+1yW5wP-g@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Jan 8, 2013 at 3:04 PM,  Volker Bach wrote:

So I wanted to ask if anyone can think of any other culinary history themed
event that would be worth attending.


Have you ever heard of Dr. Alice Ross? She owns Hearth Studios in
Smithtown, NY where she teaches various historical cooking techniques as
described here http://www.aliceross.com/descriptions.html , such as hearth
cooking, dutch oven baking, butchering etc. Most of her classes deal with
early New World cooking, but she also teaches Ancient World foods as well
as Medieval-Renaissance Cookery. She used to have a list of classes she
taught yearly, but now it looks like she only teaches by appointment. I
have a feeling she is getting up in her years. I have always wanted to see
her studios and get some instruction on basic hearth cooking. Look at her
website and see if something would interest you. While it's not an SCA
symposium, I think there is a lot to learn from her. If she is getting
pretty old, it would be nice to have an (or some) SCAer(s) to pass on her
information to the rest of us.

YIS,
?schwynne/Aislinn

From alysk at ix.netcom.com  Tue Jan  8 13:20:54 2013
From: alysk at ix.netcom.com (Elise Fleming)
Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2013 16:20:54 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Academic events in 2013?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1357675489.7267.sca-cooks-ansteorra.org@lists.ansteorra.org>
References: <mailman.1.1357675489.7267.sca-cooks-ansteorra.org@lists.ansteorra.org>
Message-ID: <50EC8DB6.301@ix.netcom.com>


Giano/Volker wrote:
> So I wanted to ask if anyone can think of any other culinary history themed 
 >event that would be worth attending. I can't seem to find any mention 
of a 2013
 >Leeds Symposium. Anything else?

Leeds is historically late with information.  It tends not to be made 
public until mid- or late-January.  Maybe someone on this list has 
advance info??

Alys K.

Elise Fleming
alysk at ix.netcom.com
alyskatharine at gmail.com
http://damealys.medievalcookery.com/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8311418 at N08/sets/


From johnnae at mac.com  Tue Jan  8 14:40:27 2013
From: johnnae at mac.com (Johnna Holloway)
Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2013 17:40:27 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Academic events in 2013?
In-Reply-To: <50EC8DB6.301@ix.netcom.com>
References: <mailman.1.1357675489.7267.sca-cooks-ansteorra.org@lists.ansteorra.org>
	<50EC8DB6.301@ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <A84EAC41-CD99-40EC-9055-DA4387BEB40D@mac.com>

New PPC just came. 

Leeds is April 27th this year. Theme is Fruits.

Johnnae

On Jan 8, 2013, at 4:20 PM, Elise Fleming wrote:

> 
> Giano/Volker wrote:
>> So I wanted to ask if anyone can think of any other culinary history themed 
> >event that would be worth attending. I can't seem to find any mention of a 2013
> >Leeds Symposium. Anything else?
> 
> Leeds is historically late with information.  It tends not to be made public until mid- or late-January.  Maybe someone on this list has advance info??
> 
> Alys K.

From johnnae at mac.com  Thu Jan 10 16:07:28 2013
From: johnnae at mac.com (Johnna Holloway)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 19:07:28 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Henry VIII's Jely Ypocras?
Message-ID: <B04E31EA-312E-48C8-A33C-8B0ACED5580D@mac.com>

Ivan Day on 
Henry VIII's Jely Ypocras?

take a look at

http://foodhistorjottings.blogspot.com/

Johnnae


From johnnae at mac.com  Thu Jan 10 16:11:53 2013
From: johnnae at mac.com (Johnna Holloway)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 19:11:53 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Sherbet & Spice
Message-ID: <22F309B9-5101-42B8-AECA-ED0053C436FA@mac.com>

Just wanted to let everyone know that the long delayed new book Sherbet and Spice: The Complete Story of Turkish Sweets and Desserts by Mary Isin arrived Tuesday.

Sherbet and Spice: The Complete Story of Turkish Sweets and Desserts, written by Mary Isin and published by I.B. Tauris. ISBN 9781848858985, 322 pages.

Reviews here

http://www.istanbulfood.com/istanbul-food-reads-sherbet-spice

http://www.foodepedia.co.uk/restaurant-news/2012/dec/Book_In_For_A_Decent_Read_This_Christmas_Foodepedias_Top_10.htm

I'll be back with more comments and a full review later this week? maybe first part next week.

Johnnae

From sprucebranch at gmail.com  Thu Jan 10 17:48:29 2013
From: sprucebranch at gmail.com (Ian Kusz)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 17:48:29 -0800
Subject: [Sca-cooks] herbs
Message-ID: <CAHofC-TqD_17bMLivRWPL2XOw1=Nd4emF++Mue=+HrW9Uid-Nw@mail.gmail.com>

found recipe for hypocras using spikenard and rue.  use?

-- 
Ian of Oertha

From JIMCHEVAL at aol.com  Thu Jan 10 18:10:20 2013
From: JIMCHEVAL at aol.com (JIMCHEVAL at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 21:10:20 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] herbs
Message-ID: <1cac3.3356fb7f.3e20ce8c@aol.com>

Spikenard these days is typically replaced by valerian (Gallic nard), which 
 is supposed to be safe enough (if soporific). Rue is sold in Persian  
supermarkets, but I would read up on it extensively before using it. It's  
powerful in many ways and there are those who say not to use it in food at all.  
(I certainly wouldn't serve any to a pregnant woman.)

In general, it's  always wise to read up (medically) on any unfamiliar 
spice or herb. Even  some of the familiar ones are more powerful than some 
people  realize.

These are both more Roman than medieval spices, though they're  found later 
on. Curious to see them in hypocras, though.
 
Jim  Chevallier
www.chezjim.com

Newly translated from Pierre Jean-Baptiste  Le Grand d'Aussy:
Catholic Fasting in France: From the Franks to the  Eighteenth Century  

 
In a message dated 1/10/2013 5:48:32 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,  
sprucebranch at gmail.com writes:

found  recipe for hypocras using spikenard and rue.   use?


From johnnae at mac.com  Thu Jan 10 18:14:23 2013
From: johnnae at mac.com (Johnna Holloway)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 21:14:23 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] herbs
In-Reply-To: <CAHofC-TqD_17bMLivRWPL2XOw1=Nd4emF++Mue=+HrW9Uid-Nw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHofC-TqD_17bMLivRWPL2XOw1=Nd4emF++Mue=+HrW9Uid-Nw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1FEEB1F0-7154-4433-B080-724F40B7D91F@mac.com>

http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-supplements/ingredientmono-885-RUE.aspx?activeIngredientId=885&activeIngredientName=RUE

Why use that one and not another?

There are lots of recipes for hypocras after all.

Johnnae

On Jan 10, 2013, at 8:48 PM, Ian Kusz wrote:

> found recipe for hypocras using spikenard and rue.  use?
> 
> -- 
> Ian of Oertha

From JIMCHEVAL at aol.com  Thu Jan 10 20:26:19 2013
From: JIMCHEVAL at aol.com (JIMCHEVAL at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 23:26:19 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] herbs
Message-ID: <1f37a.7ccb5c60.3e20ee6b@aol.com>

In fairness, made this way it would have a distinctive flavor quite unlike  
most versions.

Not a flavor I'd particularly like myself'; valerian  tastes like soap to 
me. And rue (I just checked to remind myself) tastes like  some chemical you 
wonder how got in your food.

But they were both popular  enough with the Romans, so if you're looking 
for that alternate-era experience,  this version of hypocras would certainly 
give you something more like that and  less like, well, spiced wine.
 
Jim  Chevallier
www.chezjim.com

Newly translated from Pierre Jean-Baptiste  Le Grand d'Aussy:
Catholic Fasting in France: From the Franks to the  Eighteenth Century  

 
In a message dated 1/10/2013 6:14:27 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,  
johnnae at mac.com writes:

Why use  that one and not another?

There are lots of recipes for hypocras after  all.


From johnnae at mac.com  Thu Jan 10 20:33:24 2013
From: johnnae at mac.com (Johnna Holloway)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 23:33:24 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] herbs
In-Reply-To: <1f37a.7ccb5c60.3e20ee6b@aol.com>
References: <1f37a.7ccb5c60.3e20ee6b@aol.com>
Message-ID: <06F27B79-9972-43E9-88E7-EFA9B690BAE1@mac.com>

a small batch with warning labels to satisfy curiosity  then

Johnnae

On Jan 10, 2013, at 11:26 PM, JIMCHEVAL at aol.com wrote:

> In fairness, made this way it would have a distinctive flavor quite unlike  
> most versions.
> 
> Not a flavor I'd particularly like myself'; valerian  tastes like soap to 
> me. And rue (I just checked to remind myself) tastes like  some chemical you 
> wonder how got in your food.
> 
> But they were both popular  enough with the Romans, so if you're looking 
> for that alternate-era experience,  this version of hypocras would certainly 
> give you something more like that and  less like, well, spiced wine.
> 
> Jim  Chevallier
> www.chezjim.com

> johnnae at mac.com writes:
> 
> Why use  that one and not another?
> 
> There are lots of recipes for hypocras after  all.

From otsisto at socket.net  Fri Jan 11 02:19:53 2013
From: otsisto at socket.net (otsisto)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 04:19:53 -0600
Subject: [Sca-cooks] herbs
In-Reply-To: <1f37a.7ccb5c60.3e20ee6b@aol.com>
Message-ID: <IDEHICPIJOEBPADHEOGPIEAEEJAB.otsisto@socket.net>

Really, my experience with Valerian is that it tastes like the smell of
dirty socks. Cilantro and ginger tastes closer to soap to me.

De


-----Original Message-----
Not a flavor I'd particularly like myself'; valerian  tastes like soap to
me.



From JIMCHEVAL at aol.com  Fri Jan 11 10:18:31 2013
From: JIMCHEVAL at aol.com (JIMCHEVAL at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 13:18:31 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] herbs
Message-ID: <3bc5f.31e9801a.3e21b177@aol.com>

Since I'm going to guess neither of us is a connoisseur of soap, there's  
wide room for disagreement here. But the more precise (if difficult to find)  
version of spikenard is often used in perfume, so the general odor is more  
associated today with cosmetics than edibles:

"Spikenard (Nardostachys  jatamansi); also called nard, nardin, and 
muskroot is a flowering plant of the  Valerian family that grows in the Himalayas 
of Nepal, China, and India. The  plant grows to about 1 m in height and has 
pink, bell-shaped flowers. It is  found in the altitude of about 3000?5000 
meters. Spikenard rhizomes (underground  stems) can be crushed and distilled 
into an intensely aromatic amber-colored  essential oil, which is very thick 
in consistency. Nard oil is used as a  perfume, an incense, a sedative, and 
an herbal medicine said to fight insomnia,  birth difficulties, and other 
minor ailments.[1]"
_http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spikenard_ 
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spikenard) 

It's  been a while since I've done this research, but as I recall in Gaul 
Gallic nard  (hence, valerian) was more used than the real article.

Otherwise, it's worth noting that some gloss "espic" (probably spikenard)  
as lavender as well.
 
It doesn't help that nard was often paired with costus, which (via its  
Chinese equivalent) I find to taste like dirt (think ginseng). Yet both were  
once immensely prized.
 
I agree that cilantro is soapish as well; less so ginger, which I love.  
Cilantro is a curious herb/spice, not only because it's equally central to 
both  Mexican and Thai cuisine, but because its leaves have a very different 
flavor  from its seeds (coriander). For our period, it can also be 
treacherous, since  when Anthimus, for instance, refers to it you have to consider 
whether he means  the leaf or the seed (which to us would be two distinct 
ingredients).

Jim Chevallier
www.chezjim.com

Newly translated from Pierre  Jean-Baptiste Le Grand d'Aussy:
Catholic Fasting in France: From the Franks  to the Eighteenth Century 

In a message dated 1/11/2013 2:19:48 A.M.  Pacific Standard Time, 
otsisto at socket.net writes:
Really, my experience with  Valerian is that it tastes like the smell of
dirty socks. Cilantro and ginger  tastes closer to soap to me. 
 

From galefridus at optimum.net  Fri Jan 11 12:27:49 2013
From: galefridus at optimum.net (galefridus at optimum.net)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 20:27:49 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] herbs
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1357934772.14851.sca-cooks-ansteorra.org@lists.ansteorra.org>
References: <mailman.1.1357934772.14851.sca-cooks-ansteorra.org@lists.ansteorra.org>
Message-ID: <e4abdfa710f12.50f075c5@optonline.net>


> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 17:48:29 -0800
> From: Ian Kusz 
> To: Cooks within the SCA 
> Subject: [Sca-cooks] herbs
> Message-ID:
> 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> 
> found recipe for hypocras using spikenard and rue. use?
> 
> -- 
> Ian of Oertha

I use both rue and spikenard pretty freely. I actually like the flavor that rue imparts, and while I've found that full-strength spikenard can be pretty stinky, a small amount adds a pleasant musky scent to food.

But I also fully disclose what I'm putting into whatever I cook, and I'd be hesitant to recommend either of these for something to be consumed by a lot of folks (feast or dayboard).

-- Galefridus

From JIMCHEVAL at aol.com  Fri Jan 11 12:32:04 2013
From: JIMCHEVAL at aol.com (JIMCHEVAL at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 15:32:04 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] herbs
Message-ID: <40184.3de98650.3e21d0c4@aol.com>

You're using actual spikenard then, as opposed to valerian?
Have you compared them?
 
Jim  Chevallier
www.chezjim.com

Newly translated from Pierre Jean-Baptiste  Le Grand d'Aussy:
Catholic Fasting in France: From the Franks to the  Eighteenth Century  

 
In a message dated 1/11/2013 12:27:54 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,  
galefridus at optimum.net writes:

I've  found that full-strength spikenard can be pretty  stinky


From lilinah at earthlink.net  Fri Jan 11 16:46:25 2013
From: lilinah at earthlink.net (lilinah at earthlink.net)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 16:46:25 -0800 (GMT-08:00)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] herbs
Message-ID: <1188696.1357951586239.JavaMail.root@elwamui-mouette.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

RUE

I think the level of fear of rue in the SCA is excessive.

Back in the 1970s I had an acquaintance who used tincture of rue as an abortifacient - she was drinking quite a bit - and that would have been at a much higher concentration than fresh leaves used in a feast - and it didn't work.

I'm not saying send rue out helter skelter, willy nilly. There may be some woman who is very sensitive to it. But i think serving it with a warning ought to be sufficient. Someone on another cooking list sent me a packet of homegrown rue and i enjoyed it - it has a flavor that is both green and bitter and i can see how it would work in Roman food to counter the sweetness of the honey and the salty umami of the fish sauce, both used in the majority of savory dishes.

I'd be more concerned, as a cook, about the possibility of contact dermatitis from handling the fresh leaves - a lot of people are sensitive - although once cooked it does not cause that reaction, and one can avoid contact by using latex (if one does not have a latex allergy) or vinyl gloves.

=====

SPIKENARD VS. VALERIAN

As for spikenard, which is botanically nardostachys jatamansi, and which i have read is endangered, i understand one substitute is valeriana jatamansi. This is a different plant from the sometimes soporific valerian, which is valeriana officinalis, and so will not have the smell of dirty sweat socks i sometimes perceive with the officinalis variety.

I have on several occasions made spice blends for hypocras using "spikenard" which i purchased at Lhasa Karnak (which opened on Earth Day 1970). It turns out that they are not selling nardostachys jatamansi, but i can't recall exactly what they are selling, some American plant, IIRC. I've written to them (i forgot my cell phone or i'd have phoned) and hope to get an answer soon. What they sell may not be identical to what other herb & spice vendors sell, but i will post their answer to this list.

===

TASTING "SOAPY"

As far as things having a "soapy" taste, i think that may depend on several issues: how recently one has actually eaten soap, what sorts of soap one uses, and how much of the ingredient perceived as tasting "soapy" was used in food.

I have read in many SCA messages from the past that a lot of people seemed to think rose water tasted "soapy". As someone with a long exposure to rose water in food, beginning in the late 1960s (i didn't join the SCA until 1999), i have never found it to taste soapy... unless i was using rose water soap.

Sensitivity to cilantro aside, which is genetic, i suspect that in many cases an SCA cook may have used too much of a particular unfamiliar ingredient, and that strong and uncommon flavor was found unpleasant. If you use too much of even an herb or spice you are familiar with and like, it will not taste good (too much oregano? Patooey!) but it will be identifiable (i.e., too much cinnamon or too much clove), whereas it's much harder to put one's finger on an unfamiliar culprit, and so some may be characterized as "soapy".

This is another reason to test recipes calling for unfamiliar ingredients.

Urtatim (that's oor-tah-TEEM)

From JIMCHEVAL at aol.com  Fri Jan 11 17:03:23 2013
From: JIMCHEVAL at aol.com (JIMCHEVAL at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 20:03:23 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] herbs
Message-ID: <3024.49e65553.3e22105b@aol.com>

It occurs to me I should mention that what I bought at the Persian market  
and re-tasted yesterday were rue seeds. I'll have to go looking for some 
green  rue - or try planting what I have.

I should also point out that  personally I have no fear of rue. But then, 
in playing with Roman cuisine, I ate  a few things I'd hesitate to recommend 
to others. And in fact there is  very little of what I made for my own 
edification that I would ever serve to  others. 
 
"Are you vegan? Lactose-intolerant? Allergic to peanuts? How about obscure  
Roman or medieval spices you've never heard of ? Sure?"
 
Jim  Chevallier
www.chezjim.com

Newly translated from Pierre Jean-Baptiste  Le Grand d'Aussy:
Catholic Fasting in France: From the Franks to the  Eighteenth Century  

 
In a message dated 1/11/2013 4:46:28 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,  
lilinah at earthlink.net writes:

Someone  on another cooking list sent me a packet of homegrown rue and i 
enjoyed  it


From prescotj at telusplanet.net  Fri Jan 11 18:03:53 2013
From: prescotj at telusplanet.net (James Prescott)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 19:03:53 -0700
Subject: [Sca-cooks] herbs
In-Reply-To: <1188696.1357951586239.JavaMail.root@elwamui-mouette.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <1188696.1357951586239.JavaMail.root@elwamui-mouette.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <50F0C489.70202@telusplanet.net>


There is rose water, and there is "please dilute by a factor of 50" rose 
water.  Rose Water Concentrate.

I once had a bite of a dish that someone had made using the number of 
teaspoons (or tablespoons) mentioned in a recipe which was clearly 
intended for use with rose water, except this person had a bottle of the 
concentrated stuff.  Yep, it most definitely tasted extremely soapy.


Thorvald


On 2013-01-11 17:46, lilinah at earthlink.net wrote:

> I have read in many SCA messages from the past that a lot of people seemed to think rose water tasted "soapy".

As someone with a long exposure to rose water in food, beginning in the 
late 1960s (i didn't join the SCA until

1999), i have never found it to taste soapy... unless i was using rose 
water soap.

From the.red.ross at gmail.com  Sat Jan 12 12:48:56 2013
From: the.red.ross at gmail.com (Stephani Ross)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2013 15:48:56 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Sca-cooks Digest, Vol 81, Issue 13
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1358021151.32124.sca-cooks-ansteorra.org@lists.ansteorra.org>
References: <mailman.1.1358021151.32124.sca-cooks-ansteorra.org@lists.ansteorra.org>
Message-ID: <CALE-c-0ne9R1NegsTqNVM7C+GfvSHJrjBO4S4_nHGSYze3hQkw@mail.gmail.com>

I have to agree with Urtatim. Rue as a food flavoring is too small of an
amount to cause anyone to abort. In order to cause a miscarriage with
herbs, you have to make yourself sick almost unto dying before your body
will give up the baby. Plus there is really no other herb that tastes quite
like rue. Tarragon comes close, but it's still not the same.

I dislike valerian root immensely. It is horribly bitter and does smell a
bit like old socks. One of the medicinal herbs in a tisane or tea that
would make one not want to take his medicine! And no amount of sweetening
could make it taste better. I shudder just to think of it.

AEschwynne

From galefridus at optimum.net  Sat Jan 12 17:44:11 2013
From: galefridus at optimum.net (Galefridus Peregrinus)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2013 20:44:11 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Salt corrosion of pots?
Message-ID: <F77D19A5-7896-4ABB-B3D2-3A002493225D@optimum.net>

I have a couple of Pomaireware unglazed clay pots (http://pomaireware.com/clay-cookware/) that I use with some regularity. Most recently I used one to brine cure a few pounds of olives. Over the course of the cure (about 3 months), the brine solution soaked through the pot; in fact, the outside of the pot became encrusted with salt as the brine dried.

A couple of days ago, I transferred the olives to another container. As I was cleaning the pot, I noticed several places where the clay had corroded: it had become soft and crumbly. I didn't think that fired clay pots would be affected by salt in this way. I'm no ceramicist, but isn't fired clay just fused silica, which is extremely inert?

I'd be interested in hearing whether anyone else has had this experience.

-- Galefridus

From StefanliRous at austin.rr.com  Sat Jan 12 18:56:22 2013
From: StefanliRous at austin.rr.com (Stefan li Rous)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2013 20:56:22 -0600
Subject: [Sca-cooks] herbs
Message-ID: <CFC5026B-70E9-49F7-BD8F-95CAF1D03CE7@austin.rr.com>

Ian of Oertha said:
<<< found recipe for hypocras using spikenard and rue.  use? >>>

Whether you make some of this or not, could you please post the original recipe and perhaps your redaction?

Stefan

--------
THLord Stefan li Rous    Barony of Bryn Gwlad    Kingdom of Ansteorra
   Mark S. Harris           Austin, Texas          StefanliRous at austin.rr.com
http://www.linkedin.com/in/marksharris
**** See Stefan's Florilegium files at:  http://www.florilegium.org ****







From galefridus at optimum.net  Sat Jan 12 20:47:20 2013
From: galefridus at optimum.net (Galefridus Peregrinus)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2013 23:47:20 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Herbs
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1358021151.32124.sca-cooks-ansteorra.org@lists.ansteorra.org>
References: <mailman.1.1358021151.32124.sca-cooks-ansteorra.org@lists.ansteorra.org>
Message-ID: <8DEA7151-B071-4804-B905-03CA9BBF112D@optimum.net>


> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 15:32:04 -0500 (EST)
> From: JIMCHEVAL at aol.com
> To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] herbs
> Message-ID: <40184.3de98650.3e21d0c4 at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
> 
> You're using actual spikenard then, as opposed to valerian?
> Have you compared them?
> 
> Jim  Chevallier
> www.chezjim.com

I haven't compared them in cooking, only in aroma. The smells are similar, but spikenard seems more intense to my nose.

-- Galefridua

> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 16:46:25 -0800 (GMT-08:00)
> From: lilinah at earthlink.net
> To: SCA-Cooks <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] herbs
> Message-ID:
>    <1188696.1357951586239.JavaMail.root at elwamui-mouette.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
>    
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> 
> RUE
> 
> I think the level of fear of rue in the SCA is excessive.
> 
> Back in the 1970s I had an acquaintance who used tincture of rue as an abortifacient - she was drinking quite a bit - and that would have been at a much higher concentration than fresh leaves used in a feast - and it didn't work.
> 
> I'm not saying send rue out helter skelter, willy nilly. There may be some woman who is very sensitive to it. But i think serving it with a warning ought to be sufficient. Someone on another cooking list sent me a packet of homegrown rue and i enjoyed it - it has a flavor that is both green and bitter and i can see how it would work in Roman food to counter the sweetness of the honey and the salty umami of the fish sauce, both used in the majority of savory dishes.
> 
> I'd be more concerned, as a cook, about the possibility of contact dermatitis from handling the fresh leaves - a lot of people are sensitive - although once cooked it does not cause that reaction, and one can avoid contact by using latex (if one does not have a latex allergy) or vinyl gloves.

I think that what makes rue problematic is that some folks react to it in manner similar to poison ivy. The abortifacient properties may be based more on humoural theory than reality.

> SPIKENARD VS. VALERIAN
> 
> As for spikenard, which is botanically nardostachys jatamansi, and which i have read is endangered, i understand one substitute is valeriana jatamansi. This is a different plant from the sometimes soporific valerian, which is valeriana officinalis, and so will not have the smell of dirty sweat socks i sometimes perceive with the officinalis variety.
> 
> I have on several occasions made spice blends for hypocras using "spikenard" which i purchased at Lhasa Karnak (which opened on Earth Day 1970). It turns out that they are not selling nardostachys jatamansi, but i can't recall exactly what they are selling, some American plant, IIRC. I've written to them (i forgot my cell phone or i'd have phoned) and hope to get an answer soon. What they sell may not be identical to what other herb & spice vendors sell, but i will post their answer to this list.

I have obtained Nardostachys jatamansi from a couple of sources. There has been a merchant at Pennsic selling the stuff whole dried for the past two years, and there's an herbal supplier that sells 1 lb. packets of the powder for about $25

> TASTING "SOAPY"
> 
> As far as things having a "soapy" taste, i think that may depend on several issues: how recently one has actually eaten soap, what sorts of soap one uses, and how much of the ingredient perceived as tasting "soapy" was used in food.

The only herb that I have found with a slightly soapy taste is cilantro. Rose water can be intense, but I've found it soapy.

-- Galefridus


From johnnae at mac.com  Sun Jan 13 10:14:01 2013
From: johnnae at mac.com (Johnna Holloway)
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2013 13:14:01 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Salt corrosion of pots?
In-Reply-To: <F77D19A5-7896-4ABB-B3D2-3A002493225D@optimum.net>
References: <F77D19A5-7896-4ABB-B3D2-3A002493225D@optimum.net>
Message-ID: <8AE2DA53-67EC-480F-BD0E-2984FAB1C340@mac.com>

I think the problem is that your pot was unglazed. 

Johnnae

Sent from my iPad

On Jan 12, 2013, at 8:44 PM, Galefridus Peregrinus <galefridus at optimum.net> wrote:

> I have a couple of Pomaireware unglazed clay pots (http://pomaireware.com/clay-cookware/) that I use with some regularity. Most recently I used one to brine cure a few pounds of olives. Over the course of the cure (about 3 months), the brine solution soaked through the pot; in fact, the outside of the pot became encrusted with salt as the brine dried.
> 
> A couple of days ago, I transferred the olives to another container. As I was cleaning the pot, I noticed several places where the clay had corroded: it had become soft and crumbly. I didn't think that fired clay pots would be affected by salt in this way. I'm no ceramicist, but isn't fired clay just fused silica, which is extremely inert?
> 
> I'd be interested in hearing whether anyone else has had this problem.

From JIMCHEVAL at aol.com  Sun Jan 13 11:07:58 2013
From: JIMCHEVAL at aol.com (JIMCHEVAL at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2013 14:07:58 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Salt corrosion of pots?
Message-ID: <2d9d.4ee9d664.3e24600e@aol.com>

Indeed. "Inert" does not mean "not porous".

"One  important use of glaze is to render porous pottery vessels 
impermeable to water  and other liquids."
_http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pottery#Decorating_and_glazing_ 
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pottery#Decorating_and_glazing) 
 
Jim  Chevallier
www.chezjim.com

Newly translated from Pierre Jean-Baptiste  Le Grand d'Aussy:
Eggs, Cheese and Butter in Old Regime France  

 
In a message dated 1/13/2013 10:14:13 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,  
johnnae at mac.com writes:

I think  the problem is that your pot was unglazed. 


From t.d.decker at att.net  Sun Jan 13 12:20:27 2013
From: t.d.decker at att.net (Terry Decker)
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2013 14:20:27 -0600
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Salt corrosion of pots?
In-Reply-To: <F77D19A5-7896-4ABB-B3D2-3A002493225D@optimum.net>
References: <F77D19A5-7896-4ABB-B3D2-3A002493225D@optimum.net>
Message-ID: <4D5772AB86724BC0A15070A4AB01B54C@TerryPC>


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Galefridus Peregrinus" <galefridus at optimum.net>
To: <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 7:44 PM
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Salt corrosion of pots?


>I have a couple of Pomaireware unglazed clay pots 
>(http://pomaireware.com/clay-cookware/) that I use with some regularity. 
>Most recently I used one to brine cure a few pounds of olives. Over the 
>course of the cure (about 3 months), the brine solution soaked through the 
>pot; in fact, the outside of the pot became encrusted with salt as the 
>brine dried.
>
> A couple of days ago, I transferred the olives to another container. As I 
> was cleaning the pot, I noticed several places where the clay had 
> corroded: it had become soft and crumbly. I didn't think that fired clay 
> pots would be affected by salt in this way. I'm no ceramicist, but isn't 
> fired clay just fused silica, which is extremely inert?
>
> I'd be interested in hearing whether anyone else has had this experience.
>
> -- Galefridus
> _______________________________________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org
> 


From t.d.decker at att.net  Sun Jan 13 13:03:22 2013
From: t.d.decker at att.net (Terry Decker)
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2013 15:03:22 -0600
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Salt corrosion of pots?
In-Reply-To: <F77D19A5-7896-4ABB-B3D2-3A002493225D@optimum.net>
References: <F77D19A5-7896-4ABB-B3D2-3A002493225D@optimum.net>
Message-ID: <B21FB0A91030468BA0E5AACD15DE99A7@TerryPC>

Glass is amorphous fused silica which is mostly inert and non-porous.  Clay 
used in pottery is a phyllosilicate with a high degree of plasticity.  When 
fired, the crystalline structure of the clay produces densely packed rigid 
layers.  Ceramic vessels are slightly porous and can be permeated by 
liquids, which is essentially eliminated by glazing.  Clay based ceramics 
are not inert, but the degree of reactivity is dependent on the minerals in 
the ceramic and the contents of the pot.  You appear to have been unlucky in 
the mix of brine and clay.  Next time, I think I would try a glazed crock or 
glass jar.

Bear


>I have a couple of Pomaireware unglazed clay pots 
>(http://pomaireware.com/clay-cookware/) that I use with some regularity. 
>Most recently I used one to brine cure a few pounds of olives. Over the 
>course of the cure (about 3 months), the brine solution soaked through the 
>pot; in fact, the outside of the pot became encrusted with salt as the 
>brine dried.
>
> A couple of days ago, I transferred the olives to another container. As I 
> was cleaning the pot, I noticed several places where the clay had 
> corroded: it had become soft and crumbly. I didn't think that fired clay 
> pots would be affected by salt in this way. I'm no ceramicist, but isn't 
> fired clay just fused silica, which is extremely inert?
>
> I'd be interested in hearing whether anyone else has had this experience.
>
> -- Galefridus


From sprucebranch at gmail.com  Sun Jan 13 13:39:57 2013
From: sprucebranch at gmail.com (Ian Kusz)
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2013 13:39:57 -0800
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Salt corrosion of pots?
In-Reply-To: <B21FB0A91030468BA0E5AACD15DE99A7@TerryPC>
References: <F77D19A5-7896-4ABB-B3D2-3A002493225D@optimum.net>
	<B21FB0A91030468BA0E5AACD15DE99A7@TerryPC>
Message-ID: <CAHofC-Tb5b_z7kjAUNwYJQYKKP+kC7PnDFSsh-59Bqb20cNQGA@mail.gmail.com>

Ludicrous!  Burn him at the stake, a false Magister.

Kobolds from the site where you dug up the clay have wrought havoc upon thy
vessel in punishment for stealing their clay.  You must take clay from a
site free from kobolds.

On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 1:03 PM, Terry Decker <t.d.decker at att.net> wrote:

> Glass is amorphous fused silica which is mostly inert and non-porous.
>  Clay used in pottery is a phyllosilicate with a high degree of plasticity.
>  When fired, the crystalline structure of the clay produces densely packed
> rigid layers.  Ceramic vessels are slightly porous and can be permeated by
> liquids, which is essentially eliminated by glazing.  Clay based ceramics
> are not inert, but the degree of reactivity is dependent on the minerals in
> the ceramic and the contents of the pot.  You appear to have been unlucky
> in the mix of brine and clay.  Next time, I think I would try a glazed
> crock or glass jar.
>
> Bear
>
>
>
>  I have a couple of Pomaireware unglazed clay pots (
>> http://pomaireware.com/clay-**cookware/<http://pomaireware.com/clay-cookware/>)
>> that I use with some regularity. Most recently I used one to brine cure a
>> few pounds of olives. Over the course of the cure (about 3 months), the
>> brine solution soaked through the pot; in fact, the outside of the pot
>> became encrusted with salt as the brine dried.
>>
>> A couple of days ago, I transferred the olives to another container. As I
>> was cleaning the pot, I noticed several places where the clay had corroded:
>> it had become soft and crumbly. I didn't think that fired clay pots would
>> be affected by salt in this way. I'm no ceramicist, but isn't fired clay
>> just fused silica, which is extremely inert?
>>
>> I'd be interested in hearing whether anyone else has had this experience.
>>
>> -- Galefridus
>>
>
> ______________________________**_________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/**listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-**ansteorra.org<http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org>
>



-- 
Ian of Oertha

From galefridus at optimum.net  Sun Jan 13 14:11:51 2013
From: galefridus at optimum.net (Galefridus Peregrinus)
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2013 17:11:51 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Salt corrosion of pots?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1358107502.28222.sca-cooks-ansteorra.org@lists.ansteorra.org>
References: <mailman.1.1358107502.28222.sca-cooks-ansteorra.org@lists.ansteorra.org>
Message-ID: <BE475BCA-7A19-4145-96DE-1C5393F5E4D3@optimum.net>

But why would whether the pot was glazed or not have anything to do with it? Glazed or not, earthenware is basically fused silica, which is, as I said, pretty much inert. What is the salt eating into that's making the fired clay crumbly? I'm enough of a chemist to know that SOMETHING odd is going on.

-- Galefridus

> Message: 5
> Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2013 13:14:01 -0500
> From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>
> To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Salt corrosion of pots?
> Message-ID: <8AE2DA53-67EC-480F-BD0E-2984FAB1C340 at mac.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII
> 
> I think the problem is that your pot was unglazed. 
> 
> Johnnae
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
> On Jan 12, 2013, at 8:44 PM, Galefridus Peregrinus <galefridus at optimum.net> wrote:
> 
>> I have a couple of Pomaireware unglazed clay pots (http://pomaireware.com/clay-cookware/) that I use with some regularity. Most recently I used one to brine cure a few pounds of olives. Over the course of the cure (about 3 months), the brine solution soaked through the pot; in fact, the outside of the pot became encrusted with salt as the brine dried.
>> 
>> A couple of days ago, I transferred the olives to another container. As I was cleaning the pot, I noticed several places where the clay had corroded: it had become soft and crumbly. I didn't think that fired clay pots would be affected by salt in this way. I'm no ceramicist, but isn't fired clay just fused silica, which is extremely inert?
>> 
>> I'd be interested in hearing whether anyone else has had this problem.
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 6
> Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2013 14:07:58 -0500 (EST)
> From: JIMCHEVAL at aol.com
> To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Salt corrosion of pots?
> Message-ID: <2d9d.4ee9d664.3e24600e at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
> 
> Indeed. "Inert" does not mean "not porous".
> 
> "One  important use of glaze is to render porous pottery vessels 
> impermeable to water  and other liquids."
> _http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pottery#Decorating_and_glazing_ 
> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pottery#Decorating_and_glazing) 
> 
> Jim  Chevallier
> www.chezjim.com
> 
> Newly translated from Pierre Jean-Baptiste  Le Grand d'Aussy:
> Eggs, Cheese and Butter in Old Regime France  
> 
> 
> In a message dated 1/13/2013 10:14:13 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,  
> johnnae at mac.com writes:
> 
> I think  the problem is that your pot was unglazed. 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org
> 
> 
> End of Sca-cooks Digest, Vol 81, Issue 14
> *****************************************

From samia at idlelion.net  Sun Jan 13 14:21:54 2013
From: samia at idlelion.net (Sayyeda al-Kaslaania)
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2013 16:21:54 -0600
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Salt corrosion of pots?
In-Reply-To: <BE475BCA-7A19-4145-96DE-1C5393F5E4D3@optimum.net>
References: <mailman.1.1358107502.28222.sca-cooks-ansteorra.org@lists.ansteorra.org>
	<BE475BCA-7A19-4145-96DE-1C5393F5E4D3@optimum.net>
Message-ID: <50F33382.1040500@idlelion.net>

It's just like salts pushing through basement walls. They're physically 
pushing the grains of the pot apart as they move through. The  OP said 
the pot was crusty on the outside. A glazed pot wouldn't let the salts 
through. It's like freezing water in a flower pot. The ice pushes the 
clay apart.

Sayyeda al-Kaslaania


On 1/13/2013 4:11 PM, Galefridus Peregrinus wrote:
> But why would whether the pot was glazed or not have anything to do with it? Glazed or not, earthenware is basically fused silica, which is, as I said, pretty much inert. What is the salt eating into that's making the fired clay crumbly? I'm enough of a chemist to know that SOMETHING odd is going on.
>
> -- Galefridus
>


From mneumark at hotmail.com  Sun Jan 13 16:25:05 2013
From: mneumark at hotmail.com (Mercy Neumark)
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2013 16:25:05 -0800
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Salt Corrosion of earthenware pots
Message-ID: <BLU403-EAS426EA48C3E17A3E1E565ACFC92E0@phx.gbl>

As a ceramists unglazed pots have pours. They seep and leach out minerals. You need to used glazed pots for any sort of long term use. 

--Mercy

Sent from my iPhone
Please excuse any typos or odd autocorrection errors

From lilinah at earthlink.net  Sun Jan 13 18:03:52 2013
From: lilinah at earthlink.net (lilinah at earthlink.net)
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2013 18:03:52 -0800 (GMT-08:00)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Herbs
Message-ID: <6173849.1358129032819.JavaMail.root@elwamui-hound.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

I wrote:
> > RUE
> > 
> > I think the level of fear of rue in the SCA is excessive.
> > 
> > Back in the 1970s I had an acquaintance who used tincture of rue as an 
> > abortifacient - she was drinking quite a bit - and that would have been at a 
> > much higher concentration than fresh leaves used in a feast - and it didn't 
> > work.
> > 
> > I'm not saying send rue out helter skelter, willy nilly. There may be some woman 
> > who is very sensitive to it. But i think serving it with a warning ought to be 
> > sufficient.
SNIP
> > I'd be more concerned, as a cook, about the possibility of contact dermatitis 
> > from handling the fresh leaves - a lot of people are sensitive - although once 
> > cooked it does not cause that reaction
SNIP

Galefridus replied:
> I think that what makes rue problematic is that some folks react to it in manner 
> similar to poison ivy. The abortifacient properties may be based more on humoural 
> theory than reality.

That's contact dermatitis. If the rue is cooked briefly it's not a problem.

> > SPIKENARD VS. VALERIAN
> > 
> > As for spikenard, which is botanically nardostachys jatamansi, and which i have 
> > read is endangered, i understand one substitute is valeriana jatamansi. This is 
> > a different plant from the sometimes soporific valerian, which is valeriana 
> > officinalis, and so will not have the smell of dirty sweat socks i sometimes 
> > perceive with the officinalis variety.
SNIP

> I have obtained Nardostachys jatamansi from a couple of sources. There has been a 
> merchant at Pennsic selling the stuff whole dried for the past two years, and 
> there's an herbal supplier that sells 1 lb. packets of the powder for about $25

Well, there was a merchant at Pennsic for a couple years (including last year) selling Ashanti pepper, aka False Cubeb, as Cubeb. The two look similar but do NOT taste the same. This merchant did not know the difference. I mentioned it, and sent them plenty of supporting evidence. They did eventually change the label.

So any herb/spice merchant may *think* they're selling one thing, when they're actually selling another, because it's what THEIR vendor told them it was.

I hope i hear back from Lhasa Karnak tomorrow about what they're selling as Spikenard.

> > TASTING "SOAPY"

> The only herb that I have found with a slightly soapy taste is cilantro.

And that's often genetic.

I guess i'm lucky because either it doesn't seem soapy to me, or i like the taste of soap (i've made soap from scratch - although i did purchase the lye and not make it myself - that's hard to do in an urban apartment)

Urtatim

From JIMCHEVAL at aol.com  Sun Jan 13 18:28:58 2013
From: JIMCHEVAL at aol.com (JIMCHEVAL at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2013 21:28:58 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Herbs
Message-ID: <3889.643b9089.3e24c76a@aol.com>

 
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruta_graveolens
"Rue contains pilocarpine which is used in  horses to induce abortion."


Otherwise,  here's what the government (whom of course I trust implicitly) 
says, in listing  rue among "DIRECT FOOD SUBSTANCES AFFIRMED AS GENERALLY 
RECOGNIZED AS SAFE"  

? 184.1698   Rue.
(a) Rue is the  perennial herb of several species of Ruta ( Ruta  montana 
L., Ruta  graveolens L., Ruta  bracteosa L., and Ruta  calepensis L.). The 
leaves,  buds, and stems from the top of the plant are gathered, dried, and 
then crushed  in preparation for use, or left whole. 
(b)  The ingredient is used in all categories of food in accordance with  ? 
184.1(b)(2) of this chapter at concentrations not to exceed 2 parts per  
million. 
(c)  Prior sanctions for this ingredient different from the uses 
established in this  section do not exist or have been waived. 
[43 FR 3705, Jan. 27, 1978] 
 
_Back to Top_ 
(http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/retrieveECFR?gp=1&SID=2b674d0f51e4bae7cbc92547499bdc3a&ty=HTML&h=L&n=21y3.0.1.1.14&r=PART#_top) 
? 184.1699   Oil  of rue.
(a)  Oil of rue is the  natural substance obtained by steam distillation of 
the fresh blossoming plants  of rue, the perennial herb of several species 
of Ruta?Ruta montana L., Ruta  graveolens L., Ruta  bracteosa L., and Ruta  
calepensisL. 
(b)  Oil of rue meets the  specifications of the ?Food Chemicals Codex,? 
4th ed. (1996), pp. 342-343, which  is incorporated by reference in 
accordance with 5 U.S.C. 552(a) and 1 CFR part  51. Copies are available from the 
National Academy Press, Box 285, 2101  Constitution Ave. NW., Washington, DC 
20055 (Internet address http://www.nap.edu ), or may be examined at the Center 
for  Food Safety and Applied Nutrition's Library, Food and Drug 
Administration, 5100  Paint Branch Pkwy., College Park, MD 20740, or at the National 
Archives and  Records Administration (NARA). For information on the 
availability of this  material at NARA, call 202-741-6030, or go 
to:http://www.archives.gov/federal_register/code_of_federal_regulations/ibr_locations.html. 
(c)  The ingredient is used in food under the following conditions: 
 
 
Maximum Usage Levels Permitted
   Food (as served) Parts per million Function  Baked goods and baking 
mixes,  ? 170.3(n)(1), of this chapter 10 Flavoring agent and adjuvant,  ? 
170.3(o)(12) of this chapter.  Frozen dairy desserts and mixes,  ? 170.3 (n)(20) 
of this chapter 10 Do.  Soft candy, ? 170.3(n)(38) of  this chapter 10 Do.  
All other food categories 4 Do.

(d)  Prior sanctions for this ingredient different from the uses 
established in this  section do not exist or have been waived. 
[42 FR 14653, Mar. 15, 1977, as amended at 49 FR 5613, Feb. 14, 1984;  64 
FR 1760, Jan. 12, 1999]"
 
Jim  Chevallier
www.chezjim.com

Newly translated from Pierre Jean-Baptiste  Le Grand d'Aussy:
Eggs, Cheese and Butter in Old Regime France  

 


The  abortifacient properties may be based more on humoural 
> theory than  reality.




From sprucebranch at gmail.com  Sun Jan 13 18:59:31 2013
From: sprucebranch at gmail.com (Ian Kusz)
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2013 18:59:31 -0800
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Herbs
In-Reply-To: <6173849.1358129032819.JavaMail.root@elwamui-hound.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <6173849.1358129032819.JavaMail.root@elwamui-hound.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <CAHofC-S4CwMdOn=BbPMb8Rd5Y1NPrs84nooqtyFToEZbBC+GBA@mail.gmail.com>

cilantro is a plant with a different smell than taste, so depends on how
your taste works.

On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 6:03 PM, <lilinah at earthlink.net> wrote:

> I wrote:
> > > RUE
> > >
> > > I think the level of fear of rue in the SCA is excessive.
> > >
> > > Back in the 1970s I had an acquaintance who used tincture of rue as an
> > > abortifacient - she was drinking quite a bit - and that would have
> been at a
> > > much higher concentration than fresh leaves used in a feast - and it
> didn't
> > > work.
> > >
> > > I'm not saying send rue out helter skelter, willy nilly. There may be
> some woman
> > > who is very sensitive to it. But i think serving it with a warning
> ought to be
> > > sufficient.
> SNIP
> > > I'd be more concerned, as a cook, about the possibility of contact
> dermatitis
> > > from handling the fresh leaves - a lot of people are sensitive -
> although once
> > > cooked it does not cause that reaction
> SNIP
>
> Galefridus replied:
> > I think that what makes rue problematic is that some folks react to it
> in manner
> > similar to poison ivy. The abortifacient properties may be based more on
> humoural
> > theory than reality.
>
> That's contact dermatitis. If the rue is cooked briefly it's not a problem.
>
> > > SPIKENARD VS. VALERIAN
> > >
> > > As for spikenard, which is botanically nardostachys jatamansi, and
> which i have
> > > read is endangered, i understand one substitute is valeriana
> jatamansi. This is
> > > a different plant from the sometimes soporific valerian, which is
> valeriana
> > > officinalis, and so will not have the smell of dirty sweat socks i
> sometimes
> > > perceive with the officinalis variety.
> SNIP
>
> > I have obtained Nardostachys jatamansi from a couple of sources. There
> has been a
> > merchant at Pennsic selling the stuff whole dried for the past two
> years, and
> > there's an herbal supplier that sells 1 lb. packets of the powder for
> about $25
>
> Well, there was a merchant at Pennsic for a couple years (including last
> year) selling Ashanti pepper, aka False Cubeb, as Cubeb. The two look
> similar but do NOT taste the same. This merchant did not know the
> difference. I mentioned it, and sent them plenty of supporting evidence.
> They did eventually change the label.
>
> So any herb/spice merchant may *think* they're selling one thing, when
> they're actually selling another, because it's what THEIR vendor told them
> it was.
>
> I hope i hear back from Lhasa Karnak tomorrow about what they're selling
> as Spikenard.
>
> > > TASTING "SOAPY"
>
> > The only herb that I have found with a slightly soapy taste is cilantro.
>
> And that's often genetic.
>
> I guess i'm lucky because either it doesn't seem soapy to me, or i like
> the taste of soap (i've made soap from scratch - although i did purchase
> the lye and not make it myself - that's hard to do in an urban apartment)
>
> Urtatim
> _______________________________________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org
>



-- 
Ian of Oertha

From lcm at jeffnet.org  Sun Jan 13 22:33:37 2013
From: lcm at jeffnet.org (Laura C. Minnick)
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2013 22:33:37 -0800
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Herbs
In-Reply-To: <3889.643b9089.3e24c76a@aol.com>
References: <3889.643b9089.3e24c76a@aol.com>
Message-ID: <50F3A6C1.1050201@jeffnet.org>

On 1/13/2013 6:28 PM, JIMCHEVAL at aol.com wrote:
>   
> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruta_graveolens
> "Rue contains pilocarpine which is used in  horses to induce abortion."
>
>
> Otherwise,  here's what the government (whom of course I trust implicitly)
> says, in listing  rue among "DIRECT FOOD SUBSTANCES AFFIRMED AS GENERALLY
> RECOGNIZED AS SAFE"
>
> ? 184.1698   Rue.
> (a) Rue is the  perennial herb of several species of Ruta ( Ruta  montana
> L., Ruta  graveolens L., Ruta  bracteosa L., and Ruta  calepensis L.). The
> leaves,  buds, and stems from the top of the plant are gathered, dried, and
> then crushed  in preparation for use, or left whole.
> (b)  The ingredient is used in all categories of food in accordance with  ?
> 184.1(b)(2) of this chapter at concentrations not to exceed 2 parts per
> million.
> (c)  Prior sanctions for this ingredient different from the uses
> established in this  section do not exist or have been waived.
> [43 FR 3705, Jan. 27, 1978]
>   
> _Back to Top_
> (http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/retrieveECFR?gp=1&SID=2b674d0f51e4bae7cbc92547499bdc3a&ty=HTML&h=L&n=21y3.0.1.1.14&r=PART#_top)
> ? 184.1699   Oil  of rue.
> (a)  Oil of rue is the  natural substance obtained by steam distillation of
> the fresh blossoming plants  of rue, the perennial herb of several species
> of Ruta?Ruta montana L., Ruta  graveolens L., Ruta  bracteosa L., and Ruta
> calepensisL.
> (b)  Oil of rue meets the  specifications of the ?Food Chemicals Codex,?
> 4th ed. (1996), pp. 342-343, which  is incorporated by reference in
> accordance with 5 U.S.C. 552(a) and 1 CFR part  51. Copies are available from the
> National Academy Press, Box 285, 2101  Constitution Ave. NW., Washington, DC
> 20055 (Internet address http://www.nap.edu ), or may be examined at the Center
> for  Food Safety and Applied Nutrition's Library, Food and Drug
> Administration, 5100  Paint Branch Pkwy., College Park, MD 20740, or at the National
> Archives and  Records Administration (NARA). For information on the
> availability of this  material at NARA, call 202-741-6030, or go
> to:http://www.archives.gov/federal_register/code_of_federal_regulations/ibr_locations.html.
> (c)  The ingredient is used in food under the following conditions:
>   
>   
> Maximum Usage Levels Permitted
>     Food (as served) Parts per million Function  Baked goods and baking
> mixes,  ? 170.3(n)(1), of this chapter 10 Flavoring agent and adjuvant,  ?
> 170.3(o)(12) of this chapter.  Frozen dairy desserts and mixes,  ? 170.3 (n)(20)
> of this chapter 10 Do.  Soft candy, ? 170.3(n)(38) of  this chapter 10 Do.
> All other food categories 4 Do.
>
> (d)  Prior sanctions for this ingredient different from the uses
> established in this  section do not exist or have been waived.
> [42 FR 14653, Mar. 15, 1977, as amended at 49 FR 5613, Feb. 14, 1984;  64
> FR 1760, Jan. 12, 1999]"
>   
> Jim  Chevallier
> www.chezjim.com
>
>
Well, the USDA allows a lot of things in our food that I would no want 
near my mouth, so...

Back when I was a midwifery student, many years ago, we were told that 
rue is an emmenagogue, and could be a problem in someone who was prone 
to miscarry. Cohosh (black and blue both) has the same effect.

I wouldn't be terribly flipped out about them, but if I was serving 
something with rue or cohosh in it at a feast, I would clearly label it. 
Better safe than sorry.

Liutgard
-- 
"It is our choices Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our 
abilities." -Albus Dumbledore ~~~Follow my Queenly perambulations at: 
http://slugcrossings.blogspot.com/

From park-lady at hotmail.com  Mon Jan 14 12:34:16 2013
From: park-lady at hotmail.com (Beth Paul-Soch)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 20:34:16 +0000
Subject: [Sca-cooks] =?utf-8?q?Recipes_from_15th_and_16th_French?=
Message-ID: <BLU405-EAS343FD8CC6067F25BC337D4BFA2E0@phx.gbl>

I am working on some research for food from the 15th or 16th Century in France.  Trying to put together an idea for a feast with recipes from this period.  any references or recipes would be greatly appreciated.

 

Dyonisia



Sent from Windows Mail

From euriol at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 14 12:45:26 2013
From: euriol at yahoo.com (Euriol of Lothian)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 12:45:26 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Recipes from 15th and 16th French
In-Reply-To: <BLU405-EAS343FD8CC6067F25BC337D4BFA2E0@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU405-EAS343FD8CC6067F25BC337D4BFA2E0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <1358196326.71484.YahooMailNeo@web121502.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Not sure how well this will paste here, but here are some sources:


Du Fait de Cuysine? Chiquart ? French? Transcription & Translation? Cookbook? 15th Century? 1420? ? Translation in Modern French? 
Du Fait de Cuysine? Chiquart ? French? Translation? Cookbook? 15th Century? 1420? ? ? 
Le Vivendier de Kassel ? ? French? Transcription & Translation? Cookbook? 15th Century? 1425? ? Translation in Modern French? 
Le Recueil de Riom? ? French? Transcription & Translation? ? 15th Century? c. 1466? ? Found in a manuscript, in Paris at the Biblioth?que Nationale, known as Paris B.N. Latin 6707? 
Tratado de las confituras? Michel de Nostre Dame? French? Facsimile? ? 16th Century? 1551? ? ? 
La Nature & Diuersit? des Poissons? Pierre Belon? French? Facsimile? ? 16th Century? 1555? ? The Nature & Diversity of Fish? 
De re cibaria libri XXII? Jean-Baptiste Bruyerin? French? Facsimile? Cookbook? 16th Century? 1560? ? Text in Latin? 
De re cibaria libri XXII ? Jean-Baptiste Bruyerin? French? Facsimile? Cookbook? 16th Century? 1560? ? Text in Latin? 
L?Agriculture et Maison Rustique? ? French? Facsimile? ? 16th Century? 1572? ? ? 
Theatre de L?Agriculture? ? French? Facsimile? ? 16th Century? 1600? ? ? 




?
Euriol


________________________________
 From: Beth Paul-Soch <park-lady at hotmail.com>
To: "sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org> 
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 3:34 PM
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Recipes from 15th and 16th French
 
I am working on some research for food from the 15th or 16th Century in France.? Trying to put together an idea for a feast with recipes from this period.? any references or recipes would be greatly appreciated.



Dyonisia



Sent from Windows Mail
_______________________________________________
Sca-cooks mailing list
Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org

From JIMCHEVAL at aol.com  Mon Jan 14 12:46:37 2013
From: JIMCHEVAL at aol.com (JIMCHEVAL at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 15:46:37 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Recipes from 15th and 16th French
Message-ID: <157b9.45baf0c1.3e25c8ac@aol.com>

One obvious source would be the fifteenth century version of Taillevent's  
Viandier (which also includes several menus from the fifteenth century that  
would not have been compiled by Taillevent himself).

I've done my own  translation of this ("How To Cook a Peacock") but if you 
read French it's  available on-line:

_http://books.google.com/books?id=XOoYAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=inauth
or:pichon+Viandier&hl=en&sa=X&ei=Vm70UOnRC-bmiwKP6YEo&ved=0CDMQ6AEwAA_ 
(http://books.google.com/books?id=XOoYAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=inauthor:pi
chon+Viandier&hl=en&sa=X&ei=Vm70UOnRC-bmiwKP6YEo&ved=0CDMQ6AEwAA) 

A  number of the recipes in this version are not found in the four 
manuscripts  Scully examined and are probably 15th century interpolations.
 
Jim  Chevallier
www.chezjim.com

Newly translated from Pierre Jean-Baptiste  Le Grand d'Aussy:
Eggs, Cheese and Butter in Old Regime France  

 
In a message dated 1/14/2013 12:34:19 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,  
park-lady at hotmail.com writes:

I am  working on some research for food from the 15th or 16th Century in  
France.  Trying to put together an idea for a feast with recipes from  this 
period.  any references or recipes would be greatly  appreciated.


From christianetrue at earthlink.net  Mon Jan 14 13:00:10 2013
From: christianetrue at earthlink.net (Christiane)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 16:00:10 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Chocolate of Modica, chocolate of Alicante
Message-ID: <28602003.1358197210809.JavaMail.root@mswamui-andean.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Having done some research into the history of Modica, Sicily, there are some indications that this extremely wealthy area - held by the counts of Henriquez-Cabrera, described as a "kingdom within a kingdom" ? had a very early knowledge/production of chocolate, in the manner of Alicante, Spain. The author Anthony DiRenzo writes in his book "Bitter Greens" that the Spanish planted cocoa trees in Sicily, to maximize profits, but admitted to me that he does not know when the first trees were planted. 

When it comes to the chocolate of Alicante, I think this book was mentioned on the list before, but I am wondering if anyone has read it and whether it is factually credible:

Rafael Montal Montesa, "El chocolate: Las semillas de oro." Came out in 1999, published by the government of Aragon.

The Wikipedia entry on chocolate cites this book when talking about a delegation from Japan in 1585, "visiting the Emperor Philip II in Alicante, was impressed by the offer of chocolate made by the nearby convent of the Poor Clares of Veronica."

Has anyone read this book?

YIS,
Adelisa

From lilinah at earthlink.net  Mon Jan 14 13:09:53 2013
From: lilinah at earthlink.net (lilinah at earthlink.net)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 13:09:53 -0800 (GMT-08:00)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Herbs
Message-ID: <25441131.1358197794190.JavaMail.root@mswamui-cedar.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Jim Chevallier wrote: 
> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruta_graveolens
> "Rue contains pilocarpine which is used in  horses to induce abortion."

Thanks. I knew it was not merely humoral theory.

> Otherwise,  here's what the government (whom of course I trust implicitly) 
> says, in listing  rue among "DIRECT FOOD SUBSTANCES AFFIRMED AS GENERALLY 
> RECOGNIZED AS SAFE"  
SNIP

Nice to see rue is on the GRAS list! Some things on the list are of questionable safety, but they are items ordinary people are much more likely to ingest with some frequency - rue is unlikely to become something many SCAdians eat daily.

Also, i think rue doesn't cause contact dermatitis after it is dried. I didn't have a reaction to the rue i got, but that doesn't mean much, as some people don't react to it. So i still need to see if i can find more adequate info.

The wikipedia article mentions that too much rue in a meal can cause some people gastric distress, but there are other ingredients we use that can cause issues if too much is ingested, such as nutmeg.

So all this indicates that rue is safe in small quantities. I still think people should be given notice, so if know they will react, they can avoid it. And i think it would be good to include the information that shows it's on the GRAS list for general knowledge. There are food colorings that are more dangerous than rue, but about which many people have little concern.

I'd love to see rue reappear in Roman cooking. Getting it would be a problem, since it isn't commonly available (and avoiding contact dermatitis - rue gives some people blisters). It's not something i could grow in my apartment - i have no access to outdoors (no balcony or patio), my space is limited and i have a "black thumb".

Someone sometimes called Urtatim

From lcm at jeffnet.org  Mon Jan 14 13:11:14 2013
From: lcm at jeffnet.org (Laura C. Minnick)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 13:11:14 -0800
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Recipes from 15th and 16th French
In-Reply-To: <BLU405-EAS343FD8CC6067F25BC337D4BFA2E0@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU405-EAS343FD8CC6067F25BC337D4BFA2E0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <50F47472.2010102@jeffnet.org>

On 1/14/2013 12:34 PM, Beth Paul-Soch wrote:
> I am working on some research for food from the 15th or 16th Century in France.  Trying to put together an idea for a feast with recipes from this period.  any references or recipes would be greatly appreciated.
>
>   
>
> Dyonisia
>
>
There is a bunch of links to cookbooks some translated, some not, at 
http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/food.html 
<http://www.pbm.com/%7Elindahl/food.html> I use this page A LOT, and 
have found quite a few really good recipes through those links. I 
encourage you to give it a look!

Liutgard
-- 
"It is our choices Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our 
abilities." -Albus Dumbledore ~~~Follow my Queenly perambulations at: 
http://slugcrossings.blogspot.com/

From lilinah at earthlink.net  Mon Jan 14 13:16:29 2013
From: lilinah at earthlink.net (lilinah at earthlink.net)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 13:16:29 -0800 (GMT-08:00)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Spikenard
Message-ID: <23280171.1358198189636.JavaMail.root@mswamui-cedar.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Well, i just gave a phone call to Lhasa Karnak, an herb and spice store in Berkeley, California, in business over 30 years. I asked what they have been selling as Spikenard herb. I recognized the voice, i was speaking to the owner. He told me they sell Auralia Racemosa, which is commonly known as American Spikenard.

This is not in the valerian family. But as i said, other herb vendors may sell something different...

He said that they do sell real Spikenard oil, from Nardostachys jatamansi. I said i'd hesitate to put that in food and he concurred.

Someone known as Urtatim

From chimene at ravensgard.org  Mon Jan 14 13:30:23 2013
From: chimene at ravensgard.org (Patricia Dunham)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 13:30:23 -0800
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Gloriana's Frost Faire in Cleftlands! a little OT
Message-ID: <C3BDD72E-697E-42EA-B993-09392AA39CF5@ravensgard.org>

Oh my gosh! Just got a mail from the Subtleties list about the event from this past weekend! THANK YOU for posting those photos, Elise. Now... recipes? The walnuts and almonds reminded me of Peach Pits... who was that? (I really don't remember who did the peach-pit project.)

I got one quince on spec a few weeks ago -- the quince medallions were glorious (appropriately, 8-)) and looked more golden than commercial membrillo on-line... so maybe it wasn't a regular membrillo recipe? Well, really, a LOT of those dishes were spectacular, and they ALL looked really good. 

Please tell me there's someplace where all those beautiful photos line up with recipes??? and huge congratulations to the lady who did all the sugar paste serving items.

Chimene, who watches the Subtleties list with awe, from a distance, 8-)

From rcarrollmann at gmail.com  Mon Jan 14 13:38:04 2013
From: rcarrollmann at gmail.com (Robin Carroll-Mann)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 16:38:04 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Gloriana's Frost Faire in Cleftlands! a little OT
In-Reply-To: <C3BDD72E-697E-42EA-B993-09392AA39CF5@ravensgard.org>
References: <C3BDD72E-697E-42EA-B993-09392AA39CF5@ravensgard.org>
Message-ID: <CA+tVTMJ7QOM29WC_tAiGjKn2q8j8OJcFyhXEN9=WJaiRExgPrQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 4:30 PM, Patricia Dunham <chimene at ravensgard.org>wrote:

> Oh my gosh! Just got a mail from the Subtleties list about the event from
> this past weekend! THANK YOU for posting those photos, Elise. Now...
> recipes? The walnuts and almonds reminded me of Peach Pits... who was that?
> (I really don't remember who did the peach-pit project.)


I translated and redacted the recipe; various people have used it over the
years.

Brighid no Chiarain

From lilinah at earthlink.net  Mon Jan 14 13:44:59 2013
From: lilinah at earthlink.net (lilinah at earthlink.net)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 13:44:59 -0800 (GMT-08:00)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Recipes from 15th and 16th French
Message-ID: <1865265.1358199899613.JavaMail.root@mswamui-cedar.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Euriol wrote:
> Not sure how well this will paste here, but here are some sources: [SNIP]

Euriol's list is taken from Euriol's own website on google. There are links to the titles to the texts on-line. Here is the URL so you can access them:
https://sites.google.com/site/medievalcuisine/researching-medieval-cuisine/online-resources/online-texts

Urtatim (that's oor-tah-TEEM)

From galefridus at optimum.net  Mon Jan 14 13:53:56 2013
From: galefridus at optimum.net (galefridus at optimum.net)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 21:53:56 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Rue (was herbs)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.82184.1358199029.34820.sca-cooks-ansteorra.org@lists.ansteorra.org>
References: <mailman.82184.1358199029.34820.sca-cooks-ansteorra.org@lists.ansteorra.org>
Message-ID: <e7bcf34a12f31.50f47e74@optonline.net>

Rue grows pretty much as a weed in my part of the country (northern NJ) -- one SCAdian friend has a sizable "rue patch" along one side of his house, and gave me a couple of small plants. It's now in the process of establishing itself in our side garden. It's a perennial, and it stays green throughout the winter. If you have any gardening friends, maybe you could convince them to grow a bit for you, especially since it's very low maintenance.

Personally, I like the flavor that it imparts -- a kind of aromatic bitterness. And I have a special fondness for it, since it's on one of my SCA award scrolls, together with crocus (saffron) and olives.?

> Nice to see rue is on the GRAS list! Some things on the list are 
> of questionable safety, but they are items ordinary people are 
> much more likely to ingest with some frequency - rue is unlikely 
> to become something many SCAdians eat daily.
> 
> Also, i think rue doesn't cause contact dermatitis after it is 
> dried. I didn't have a reaction to the rue i got, but that 
> doesn't mean much, as some people don't react to it. So i still 
> need to see if i can find more adequate info.
> 
> The wikipedia article mentions that too much rue in a meal can 
> cause some people gastric distress, but there are other 
> ingredients we use that can cause issues if too much is 
> ingested, such as nutmeg.
> 
> So all this indicates that rue is safe in small quantities. I 
> still think people should be given notice, so if know they will 
> react, they can avoid it. And i think it would be good to 
> include the information that shows it's on the GRAS list for 
> general knowledge. There are food colorings that are more 
> dangerous than rue, but about which many people have little concern.
> 
> I'd love to see rue reappear in Roman cooking. Getting it would 
> be a problem, since it isn't commonly available (and avoiding 
> contact dermatitis - rue gives some people blisters). It's not 
> something i could grow in my apartment - i have no access to 
> outdoors (no balcony or patio), my space is limited and i have a 
> "black thumb".
>
> Someone sometimes called Urtatim

I also kill plants pretty effectively, but so far the rue has stood up to my ministrations!

-- Galefridus



From euriol at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 14 14:00:35 2013
From: euriol at yahoo.com (Euriol of Lothian)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 14:00:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Recipes from 15th and 16th French
In-Reply-To: <1865265.1358199899613.JavaMail.root@mswamui-cedar.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <1865265.1358199899613.JavaMail.root@mswamui-cedar.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <1358200835.12867.YahooMailNeo@web121505.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Thanks Urtatim,

I've been compiling list of links to stuff that have been posted on various lists or I came across on my own over the past *unintelligle mutterings* years.?? I hope that the ability to sort the list by the columns at the top is helpful.


?
Euriol


________________________________
 From: "lilinah at earthlink.net" <lilinah at earthlink.net>
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org 
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 4:44 PM
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Recipes from 15th and 16th French
 
Euriol wrote:
> Not sure how well this will paste here, but here are some sources: [SNIP]

Euriol's list is taken from Euriol's own website on google. There are links to the titles to the texts on-line. Here is the URL so you can access them:
https://sites.google.com/site/medievalcuisine/researching-medieval-cuisine/online-resources/online-texts

Urtatim (that's oor-tah-TEEM)
_______________________________________________
Sca-cooks mailing list
Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org

From galefridus at optimum.net  Mon Jan 14 14:08:51 2013
From: galefridus at optimum.net (galefridus at optimum.net)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 22:08:51 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Spikenard
In-Reply-To: <mailman.82184.1358199029.34820.sca-cooks-ansteorra.org@lists.ansteorra.org>
References: <mailman.82184.1358199029.34820.sca-cooks-ansteorra.org@lists.ansteorra.org>
Message-ID: <e62ec1a012d79.50f481f3@optonline.net>

Yeah, when I first started hunting for true spikenard, I found that almost all the suppliers were selling Aralia racemosa. It's a New World herb, and as you say, totally unrelated to Nardostachys. But true spikenard is readily available from herbal suppliers who specialize in Ayurvedic medicine.

In a previous message, you mentioned that a Pennsic merchant was selling valerian as spikenard. I'm pretty sure that the merchant from whom I bought my current stash was selling the real thing. As I stated previously, I've compared spikenard and valerian by smell, and while similar, they are distinct.

You mention the oil being available from?Lhasa Karnak -- a few years ago (PW 38, I think), someone teaching a class on foods from al-Warraq stated that he had used the oil rather than the herb. He had a bunch of sample foods, and he identified the one (a sweet, if I recall correctly) that had the oil in it, with a warning that some considered it dangerous. Most folks in the class ignored the warning and tasted it anyway.

-- Galefridus

> Message: 7
> Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 13:16:29 -0800 (GMT-08:00)
> From: lilinah at earthlink.net
> To: SCA-Cooks 
> Subject: [Sca-cooks] Spikenard
> Message-ID:
> <23280171.1358198189636.JavaMail.root at mswamui-
> cedar.atl.sa.earthlink.net>	
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> 
> Well, i just gave a phone call to Lhasa Karnak, an herb and 
> spice store in Berkeley, California, in business over 30 years. 
> I asked what they have been selling as Spikenard herb. I 
> recognized the voice, i was speaking to the owner. He told me 
> they sell Auralia Racemosa, which is commonly known as American 
> Spikenard.
> This is not in the valerian family. But as i said, other herb 
> vendors may sell something different...
> 
> He said that they do sell real Spikenard oil, from Nardostachys 
> jatamansi. I said i'd hesitate to put that in food and he concurred.
> 
> Someone known as Urtatim

From dmyers at medievalcookery.com  Mon Jan 14 14:11:07 2013
From: dmyers at medievalcookery.com (Daniel Myers)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 15:11:07 -0700
Subject: [Sca-cooks]
 =?utf-8?q?Recipes=5Ffrom=5F15th=5Fand=5F16th=5FFrench?=
Message-ID: <20130114151107.ed12dd0b5fcfab5c7acb3c004d380fe9.b4824916ec.wbe@email04.secureserver.net>


> -------- Original Message --------
> From: Beth Paul-Soch <park-lady at hotmail.com>
> Date: Mon, January 14, 2013 3:34 pm
> 
> I am working on some research for food from the 15th or 16th Century in France.  Trying to put together an idea for a feast with recipes from this period.  any references or recipes would be greatly appreciated.


I've got a list of online sources at 
http://medievalcookery.com/etexts.html#France

... as well as some interpreted recipes ... 

http://medievalcookery.com/recipes/country.html?france

- Doc


From mistressaldyth at gmail.com  Mon Jan 14 14:17:18 2013
From: mistressaldyth at gmail.com (Deborah Hammons)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 15:17:18 -0700
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Russian sources
Message-ID: <CAPPosh5fBmU6JkGzhtMpPtgGodSVqVwDd0kpYUU9fc5kyXs_JQ@mail.gmail.com>

Greetings all!

I am in the process of finding all things Russian espicially foodwise (Or
therabouts) for our April Yummier event.  I came across an article from
Lisa Kies on strangelove.net.  It also lists the name of Kieser in the page
look up.  Copyright 2007-8 updated July 4 2008.  Lots of fun stuff
there. Is this a good source?  I am familiar with the chronicle of
Novgarod, and The Domostroi.  Many sources are in Russian.  Ideas?

Aldyth

From johnnae at mac.com  Mon Jan 14 15:05:13 2013
From: johnnae at mac.com (Johnna Holloway)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 18:05:13 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Recipes from 15th and 16th French
In-Reply-To: <BLU405-EAS343FD8CC6067F25BC337D4BFA2E0@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU405-EAS343FD8CC6067F25BC337D4BFA2E0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <608CDB21-8890-44C2-A769-BD582584C9F4@mac.com>

My comprehensive bibliography French Medieval and Renaissance Cookery and Cookbooks appeared in the Spring 2011
issue of the Gauntlet.
These bibliographies from the Gauntlet are being re-edited for publication in a pamphlet series, but if
you'll write me offlist, I'll answer any questions you may have.

The latest translated volume and one worth seeking out would be
The Most Excellent Book of Food [Livre Fort excellent de cuysine 1542] by Ken Albala and Timothy Tomasik. Totnes, Devon: Prospect Books, 2012, 2013. 

(If you read French, there are a number of fascinating volumes that can be interlibrary loaned too.)

Johnnae, playing librarian and bibliographer

On Jan 14, 2013, at 3:34 PM, Beth Paul-Soch wrote:

> I am working on some research for food from the 15th or 16th Century in France.  Trying to put together an idea for a feast with recipes from this period.  any references or recipes would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> 
> 
> Dyonisia

From samia at idlelion.net  Mon Jan 14 15:58:41 2013
From: samia at idlelion.net (Sayyeda al-Kaslaania)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 17:58:41 -0600
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Rue (was herbs)
Message-ID: <srrj4tjwvm7l4a0jdu1k6h4q.1358207522656@email.android.com>

It also comes back as a perennial here in Minnesota. It's come back for three years. I have not been aware of anyone having contact dermatitis, and I've served it raw per a period recipe (although my latest research puts that into question as I write about it). I'll keep that in mind for the future. 
Sayyeda al - Kaslaania 

From JIMCHEVAL at aol.com  Mon Jan 14 16:54:54 2013
From: JIMCHEVAL at aol.com (JIMCHEVAL at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 19:54:54 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Rue (was herbs)
Message-ID: <1d628.62e18111.3e2602de@aol.com>

And now yet another wrinkle:
 
It turns out what Persians use is wild rue - which isn't really rue at  all.
_http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peganum_harmala_ 
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peganum_harmala) 

What's  more, they don't use it for food; they burn it:
_http://www.sadaf.com/sadaf-wild-rue-seeds-esphand-13-0200/_ 
(http://www.sadaf.com/sadaf-wild-rue-seeds-esphand-13-0200/) 
 
Though rue is used in several of what are described here as "Byzantine"  
recipes (but seem to be more Arab than Greek):
_http://nvg.org.au/documents/other/byzantinerecipes.pdf_ 
(http://nvg.org.au/documents/other/byzantinerecipes.pdf) 
 
It's a treacherous little spice world out there...


Jim  Chevallier
www.chezjim.com

Newly translated from Pierre Jean-Baptiste  Le Grand d'Aussy:
Eggs, Cheese and Butter in Old Regime France  

 




From ranvaig at columbus.rr.com  Mon Jan 14 19:07:30 2013
From: ranvaig at columbus.rr.com (Sharon Palmer)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 22:07:30 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Russian sources
In-Reply-To: <CAPPosh5fBmU6JkGzhtMpPtgGodSVqVwDd0kpYUU9fc5kyXs_JQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPPosh5fBmU6JkGzhtMpPtgGodSVqVwDd0kpYUU9fc5kyXs_JQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p06010233cd1a77dfba0b@[10.0.1.112]>

>Greetings all!
>
>I am in the process of finding all things Russian espicially foodwise (Or
>therabouts) for our April Yummier event.  I came across an article from
>Lisa Kies on strangelove.net.  It also lists the name of Kieser in the page
>look up.  Copyright 2007-8 updated July 4 2008.  Lots of fun stuff
>there. Is this a good source?  I am familiar with the chronicle of
>Novgarod, and The Domostroi.  Many sources are in Russian.  Ideas?

You might want to look at Rumpolt.  Nothing Russian, but several 
recipes are called Hungarian or Polish.  It may help.  My translation 
is here:
http://cooking-rumpolt.com/

Sharon

From johnnae at mac.com  Mon Jan 14 20:18:59 2013
From: johnnae at mac.com (Johnna Holloway)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 23:18:59 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Chocolate of Modica, chocolate of Alicante
In-Reply-To: <28602003.1358197210809.JavaMail.root@mswamui-andean.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <28602003.1358197210809.JavaMail.root@mswamui-andean.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <D558CEA7-41A2-476F-8624-1F8D32461F22@mac.com>

It's a rather rare volume. Worldcat only lists it as being at the Library of Congress
and Biblioteca Nacional de Espana. Interlibrary loan is probably not an option.

There are two copies on abebooks for $60.00 plus with shipping from Spain.

Johnnae

On Jan 14, 2013, at 4:00 PM, Christiane wrote:snipped  I think this book was mentioned on the list before, but I am wondering if anyone has read it and whether it is factually credible:
> 
> Rafael Montal Montesa, "El chocolate: Las semillas de oro." Came out in 1999, published by the government of Aragon.


From mistressaldyth at gmail.com  Mon Jan 14 20:53:52 2013
From: mistressaldyth at gmail.com (Deborah Hammons)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 21:53:52 -0700
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Russian sources
In-Reply-To: <p06010233cd1a77dfba0b@10.0.1.112>
References: <CAPPosh5fBmU6JkGzhtMpPtgGodSVqVwDd0kpYUU9fc5kyXs_JQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<p06010233cd1a77dfba0b@10.0.1.112>
Message-ID: <CAPPosh7ByxUoFjYro9jEUNHiVgS9y7Gtr2qyooKUmMs7TiNoNg@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you very much!  It is always a sticky situation when there aren't
many primary sources.  This one reminds me of doing "viking" food.  Used
the sagas.  Went well.

Aldyth

On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 8:07 PM, Sharon Palmer <ranvaig at columbus.rr.com>wrote:

> Greetings all!
>>
>> I am in the process of finding all things Russian espicially foodwise (Or
>> therabouts) for our April Yummier event.  I came across an article from
>> Lisa Kies on strangelove.net.  It also lists the name of Kieser in the
>> page
>> look up.  Copyright 2007-8 updated July 4 2008.  Lots of fun stuff
>> there. Is this a good source?  I am familiar with the chronicle of
>> Novgarod, and The Domostroi.  Many sources are in Russian.  Ideas?
>>
>
> You might want to look at Rumpolt.  Nothing Russian, but several recipes
> are called Hungarian or Polish.  It may help.  My translation is here:
> http://cooking-rumpolt.com/
>
> Sharon
>
> ______________________________**_________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/**listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-**ansteorra.org<http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org>
>

From the.red.ross at gmail.com  Mon Jan 14 22:18:00 2013
From: the.red.ross at gmail.com (Stephani Ross)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 01:18:00 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Russian cooking
Message-ID: <CALE-c-09QxW-AS40LF_Mrfva0zChAU7tgGFKO4fA6PW-RBtH+A@mail.gmail.com>

Lisa Kies is a great source. She's kind of a god as far as SCA Russian
stuff is concerned! Don't be afraid to  use her or any of her sources. She
is a great researcher. While I like the Domostroi (thank you Kiri), I have
found it most helpful in the context of other Russian/Slavic books, namely
" Food in Russian History and Culture" by Musya Glants and Joyce Toomre and
"Food and Drink in Medieval Poland" by Maria Dembinska. Many modern Russian
recipes are period or "period-iod", even today, but you have to study
period Russian foodways in order to figure out which ones.

AEschwynne aet Bodanhamme
aka Nadezda Petrova Stoianova
Order of the Golden Galleon, Trimaris, Russian Food

From marcello.napolitano at gmail.com  Tue Jan 15 00:08:33 2013
From: marcello.napolitano at gmail.com (Marcello Napolitano)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 08:08:33 +0000
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Chocolate of Modica, chocolate of Alicante
In-Reply-To: <28602003.1358197210809.JavaMail.root@mswamui-andean.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <28602003.1358197210809.JavaMail.root@mswamui-andean.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <CAKJg037ATM=4VUUPEirM1HQ=WyXbaV46E1VY8gkeEDFXQYLx9Q@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Adelisa.

My SCA persona is from Modica (de Mohac), but being from the early 13th
century, can't help you with your query. I did look online at some Italian
sources on chocolate of the 16th and 17th century, and found several
mentions of production of the chocolate in Modica and elsewhere in Italy,
but nothing on cultivation of Theobroma cacao. Since it is a tropical plant
with a fairly narrow area of growth, it sounds strange that it would be
successfully cultivated in Europe, other than a novelty plant that would
not bear fruit.

I would be interested to know what led you to the history of Modica, or
what interesting things you may have found. Ler me know if I can be of
assistance with any Italian source.

Best regards,

Stefano de Mohac (Marcello Napolitano)

2013/1/14 Christiane <christianetrue at earthlink.net>

> Having done some research into the history of Modica, Sicily, there are
> some indications that this extremely wealthy area - held by the counts of
> Henriquez-Cabrera, described as a "kingdom within a kingdom" ? had a very
> early knowledge/production of chocolate, in the manner of Alicante, Spain.
> The author Anthony DiRenzo writes in his book "Bitter Greens" that the
> Spanish planted cocoa trees in Sicily, to maximize profits, but admitted to
> me that he does not know when the first trees were planted.
>
> When it comes to the chocolate of Alicante, I think this book was
> mentioned on the list before, but I am wondering if anyone has read it and
> whether it is factually credible:
>
> Rafael Montal Montesa, "El chocolate: Las semillas de oro." Came out in
> 1999, published by the government of Aragon.
>
> The Wikipedia entry on chocolate cites this book when talking about a
> delegation from Japan in 1585, "visiting the Emperor Philip II in Alicante,
> was impressed by the offer of chocolate made by the nearby convent of the
> Poor Clares of Veronica."
>
> Has anyone read this book?
>
> YIS,
> Adelisa
> _______________________________________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org
>

From chimene at ravensgard.org  Tue Jan 15 00:33:51 2013
From: chimene at ravensgard.org (Patricia Dunham)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 00:33:51 -0800
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Chocolate of Modica, chocolate of Alicante
In-Reply-To: <D558CEA7-41A2-476F-8624-1F8D32461F22@mac.com>
References: <28602003.1358197210809.JavaMail.root@mswamui-andean.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<D558CEA7-41A2-476F-8624-1F8D32461F22@mac.com>
Message-ID: <7AB5A5DE-FF5D-492E-993D-1BFFC52EF3F1@ravensgard.org>

Worldcat is not, unfortunately, 100% comprehensive. More and more European academic libraries are gradually joining, or were when I was last working, but ... Also, cataloging standards vary widely between institutions, it is not unusual for more-abbreviated-descriptive-records to NOT turn up in initial searches. (I have found lots of really terrible, short-hand records, while searching for esoteric specialty titles.) Sometimes you have to do multiple searches, by every semi-distinctive word you can find, in order to catch more records.

chimene, old retired cataloger

On Jan 14, 2013, at 8:18 PM, Johnna Holloway wrote:

> It's a rather rare volume. Worldcat only lists it as being at the Library of Congress
> and Biblioteca Nacional de Espana. Interlibrary loan is probably not an option.
> 
> There are two copies on abebooks for $60.00 plus with shipping from Spain.
> 
> Johnnae
> 
> On Jan 14, 2013, at 4:00 PM, Christiane wrote:snipped  I think this book was mentioned on the list before, but I am wondering if anyone has read it and whether it is factually credible:
>> 
>> Rafael Montal Montesa, "El chocolate: Las semillas de oro." Came out in 1999, published by the government of Aragon.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org


From mistressaldyth at gmail.com  Tue Jan 15 07:13:04 2013
From: mistressaldyth at gmail.com (Deborah Hammons)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 08:13:04 -0700
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Russian cooking
In-Reply-To: <CALE-c-09QxW-AS40LF_Mrfva0zChAU7tgGFKO4fA6PW-RBtH+A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALE-c-09QxW-AS40LF_Mrfva0zChAU7tgGFKO4fA6PW-RBtH+A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPPosh77X28++72k_NvB39TxYqcy5Ec33Db9+w-AqJgoZb9AYg@mail.gmail.com>

Thank You !!  I sent an email to the address on that page with no response
yet, but no bounce either. I tried looking at her source books with no luck
on english translations.  I would like to read some of them myself.  Ideas?

Aldyth

On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 11:18 PM, Stephani Ross <the.red.ross at gmail.com>wrote:

> Lisa Kies is a great source. She's kind of a god as far as SCA Russian
> stuff is concerned! Don't be afraid to  use her or any of her sources. She
> is a great researcher. While I like the Domostroi (thank you Kiri), I have
> found it most helpful in the context of other Russian/Slavic books, namely
> " Food in Russian History and Culture" by Musya Glants and Joyce Toomre and
> "Food and Drink in Medieval Poland" by Maria Dembinska. Many modern Russian
> recipes are period or "period-iod", even today, but you have to study
> period Russian foodways in order to figure out which ones.
>
> AEschwynne aet Bodanhamme
> aka Nadezda Petrova Stoianova
> Order of the Golden Galleon, Trimaris, Russian Food
> _______________________________________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org
>

From mistressaldyth at gmail.com  Tue Jan 15 07:18:53 2013
From: mistressaldyth at gmail.com (Deborah Hammons)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 08:18:53 -0700
Subject: [Sca-cooks] horseflesh in the novgorod chronicle
In-Reply-To: <279774.33643.qm@web28101.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
References: <279774.33643.qm@web28101.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAPPosh6gRu51Z53pAAGw7GSDjbKH6gDiiP8KKnPedjGv1dkvVA@mail.gmail.com>

Lovely.  Sort of.  :-))

Aldyth

On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 3:30 PM, emilio szabo <emilio_szabo at yahoo.it> wrote:

>
> Not your region, I suppose, but never mind:
>
>
> http://www.strangelove.net/~kieser/Russia/Food/novgorodchronicle.html
>
>
> Search term: "ate horse-flesh"
>
>
> E.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org
>

From aldyth at aol.com  Tue Jan 15 07:19:35 2013
From: aldyth at aol.com (Deborah Hammons)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 08:19:35 -0700
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Food in 16th century Russia : Herberstein
In-Reply-To: <493141.89982.qm@web28104.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
References: <493141.89982.qm@web28104.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAPPosh4bGO=F8RyPRH_abz63rqa_1u2T3gfT7TkJ6O40jAmu7g@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks!

Aldyth

On Fri, Mar 14, 2008 at 3:32 PM, emilio szabo <emilio_szabo at yahoo.it> wrote:

>
> <<So any suggestions on where to get information regarding food in
>
> SCA-period Russia would be helpful, doesn't have to be a cookbook... >>
>
>
> One of the most important accounts on 16th century Russia was written by
>
> Siegmund von Herberstein. His commentarii (1556), originally written in
> Latin, then translated into
>
> German and Italian are online here:
>
> http://www.osteuropa-institut.de/ext_dateien/Herberstein%20gesamt.pdf
>
> Wikipedia points you to digital facsimiles of different Latin, German, and
> Italian editions and to
>
> an English translation, published in 1851-52 (which is also available with
> books.google).
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rerum_Moscoviticarum_Commentarii
>
> He mentions food and food related aspects every now and then, but does not
> give recipes.
>
>
> E.
>
>
>
>
>
>       Inviato da Yahoo! Mail.
> Il servizio di posta con lo spazio illimitato.
> http://it.docs.yahoo.com/mail/overview/index.html
> _______________________________________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org
>

From agora158 at gmail.com  Tue Jan 15 07:25:30 2013
From: agora158 at gmail.com (=?utf-8?Q?Ana_Vald=C3=A9s?=)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 13:25:30 -0200
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Food in 16th century Russia : Herberstein
In-Reply-To: <CAPPosh4bGO=F8RyPRH_abz63rqa_1u2T3gfT7TkJ6O40jAmu7g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <493141.89982.qm@web28104.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
	<CAPPosh4bGO=F8RyPRH_abz63rqa_1u2T3gfT7TkJ6O40jAmu7g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4C787ED0-D203-400F-A3E6-B57E24563324@gmail.com>

In the Swedish and Icelandic cookbooks are same recipes shared by the Vikings and the Russian, it were the Vikings (called Varangian) which creates and ruled Novgorod and Kiev between the 9th and the 11th century.
Ana

Skickat fr?n min iPhone

15 jan 2013 kl. 13:19 skrev Deborah Hammons <aldyth at aol.com>:

> Thanks!
> 
> Aldyth
> 
> On Fri, Mar 14, 2008 at 3:32 PM, emilio szabo <emilio_szabo at yahoo.it> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> <<So any suggestions on where to get information regarding food in
>> 
>> SCA-period Russia would be helpful, doesn't have to be a cookbook... >>
>> 
>> 
>> One of the most important accounts on 16th century Russia was written by
>> 
>> Siegmund von Herberstein. His commentarii (1556), originally written in
>> Latin, then translated into
>> 
>> German and Italian are online here:
>> 
>> http://www.osteuropa-institut.de/ext_dateien/Herberstein%20gesamt.pdf
>> 
>> Wikipedia points you to digital facsimiles of different Latin, German, and
>> Italian editions and to
>> 
>> an English translation, published in 1851-52 (which is also available with
>> books.google).
>> 
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rerum_Moscoviticarum_Commentarii
>> 
>> He mentions food and food related aspects every now and then, but does not
>> give recipes.
>> 
>> 
>> E.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>     Inviato da Yahoo! Mail.
>> Il servizio di posta con lo spazio illimitato.
>> http://it.docs.yahoo.com/mail/overview/index.html
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sca-cooks mailing list
>> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
>> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org
> _______________________________________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org

From donnaegreen at yahoo.com  Tue Jan 15 08:57:18 2013
From: donnaegreen at yahoo.com (Donna Green)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 08:57:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Recipes from 15th and 16th French
In-Reply-To: <mailman.82413.1358207910.34820.sca-cooks-ansteorra.org@lists.ansteorra.org>
Message-ID: <1358269038.43069.YahooMailClassic@web140904.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

> Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 18:05:13 -0500
> From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>
> To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Recipes from 15th and 16th French
> 
> My comprehensive bibliography French Medieval and
> Renaissance Cookery and Cookbooks appeared in the Spring
> 2011
> issue of the Gauntlet.
> These bibliographies from the Gauntlet are being re-edited
> for publication in a pamphlet series, 

WoooHoooo!!! When the pamphlet is ready, please let me know. 

> The latest translated volume and one worth seeking out would
> be
> The Most Excellent Book of Food [Livre Fort excellent de
> cuysine 1542] by Ken Albala and Timothy Tomasik. Totnes,
> Devon: Prospect Books, 2012, 2013. 

Is it out yet? I though Professor Ken said publication was delayed because he hadn't gotten 'round to writing the preface yet.

Juana Isabella
West

From donnaegreen at yahoo.com  Tue Jan 15 09:00:31 2013
From: donnaegreen at yahoo.com (Donna Green)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 09:00:31 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Russian sources
In-Reply-To: <mailman.82413.1358207910.34820.sca-cooks-ansteorra.org@lists.ansteorra.org>
Message-ID: <1358269231.47374.YahooMailClassic@web140904.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>


Another possibility for Russian sources, if you can find it, is a book called "Rude and Barbarous Kingdom". It is a collection of reports written by 16th c Englishmen who travelled through Russian scouting out markets, politics, etc. ... basically spying, but in a broad sense. It won't give you specific recipes, but it will tell you some information about food production of the time and place.

Juana Isabella

> Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 15:17:18 -0700
> From: Deborah Hammons <mistressaldyth at gmail.com>
> To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
> Subject: [Sca-cooks] Russian sources
> 
> Greetings all!
> 
> I am in the process of finding all things Russian espicially
> foodwise (Or
> therabouts) for our April Yummier event.? I came across
> an article from
> Lisa Kies on strangelove.net.? It also lists the name
> of Kieser in the page
> look up.? Copyright 2007-8 updated July 4 2008.?
> Lots of fun stuff
> there. Is this a good source?? I am familiar with the
> chronicle of
> Novgarod, and The Domostroi.? Many sources are in
> Russian.? Ideas?
> 
> Aldyth


From the.red.ross at gmail.com  Tue Jan 15 09:44:26 2013
From: the.red.ross at gmail.com (Stephani Ross)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 12:44:26 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Russian cooking
Message-ID: <CALE-c-3_zfuuJVhNJ_bmoJd412Hm5MYkXKaOMqXxHW3rsRU8Tw@mail.gmail.com>

Another book I recommend highly is _The Food and Cooking of Russia_ by
Leslie Chamberlain. The first chaper is invaluable for understanding the
foreign influences on Russian food over the centuries.

AEschwynne

From ddfr at daviddfriedman.com  Tue Jan 15 02:07:58 2013
From: ddfr at daviddfriedman.com (David Friedman)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 10:07:58 +0000
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Recipes from 15th and 16th French
In-Reply-To: <BLU405-EAS343FD8CC6067F25BC337D4BFA2E0@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU405-EAS343FD8CC6067F25BC337D4BFA2E0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <50F52A7E.2050901@daviddfriedman.com>

Elizabeth's translation of Du Fait de Cuisine is on the medieval page of 
my site.

On 1/14/13 8:34 PM, Beth Paul-Soch wrote:
> I am working on some research for food from the 15th or 16th Century in France.  Trying to put together an idea for a feast with recipes from this period.  any references or recipes would be greatly appreciated.
>
>
>
> Dyonisia
>
>
>
> Sent from Windows Mail
> _______________________________________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org
>
>

-- 
David Friedman
www.daviddfriedman.com
http://daviddfriedman.blogspot.com/


From the.red.ross at gmail.com  Tue Jan 15 19:07:26 2013
From: the.red.ross at gmail.com (Stephani Ross)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 22:07:26 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Rude and Barbarous Kingdom
Message-ID: <CALE-c-3TuSOqHY1zp64dYsDWpFEiq33YRJWvB18j1YUci0mAKw@mail.gmail.com>

When I read the _Rude & Barbarous Kingdom_. ed. by Berry and Crummey, I
underlined and tabbed anything to do with clothing, furs and food
(including vokda). There isn't a whole lot mentioned about food except in
the most general way, and it's not much. I didn't see it quoted on Sofya's
pages, so I'll type it out for you here:

Chapter 3. The native commodities of the country. p. 116

"For kinds of fruits they have apples; pears; plums; cherries, red and
black (but the back, wild); a *dynia* like a muskmellon but more sweet and
pleasant; cucumbers and gourds (which they call* arbuz);* strawberries; and
hurtleberries, with many other berries in great quantity in every wood and
hedge. Their kinds of grain are wheat, barley, rye, oats, pease, buckaway,
[and] *pshenitsa,* that in taste is somewhat like to rice. Of all these
grains the country yieldeth very sufficient and overplus quantity, so that
the wheat is sold sometime for two *altyny* or ten pense sterling the
chetvert, which maketh almost three English bushels." [144 lbs of grain]

The original authors of this journal were sent by Queen Elizabeth in 1580
to Muscovy to trade with Ivan IV as part of a delegation. This part of the
journal is Giles Fletcher's account of the first voyage to Russia. Fletcher
is very descriptive and talks about his observations of all manner of
things, from the soil to clubbing seals to huge fish teeth that weigh
eleven to twelve lbs apiece. To summarize the rest of the chapter
concerning things the Russians ate: Fletcher mentions Beluga caviar, beef,
roebuck, hares, goats and sheep. For fish he identifies carp, pike, perch,
tench, roach, sterlet, eels, beluga, stugeon, white and red salmon, and
herring. He talks about swans being raised for food as well as caught, an
abundance of pheasants and partridge, and the tedder, a large bird with the
coloring of a pheasant (a wild turkey or bustard perhaps?) that lived in
the "fir woods".

Sir Jerome Horsey stayed behind after the first voyage, became fluent in
Russian, worked as a diplomatic attache for the Russian court, and became a
basic all-around horse-trader. He was rather unscrupulous and was deported
back to England in 1589 in the custody of Giles Fletcher. This is from
chapter XVIII of his _Travels_, pp.335-336.

"The next day friars of St. Nicholas brought me a present, fresh salmons,
rye loaves, cups, and painted platters. The third day after my arrival
...[Ivan IV and Boris Gudunov] presented for my provision seventy live
sheep, twenty live oxen and bullocks, six hundred hens, forty flesh of
bacon, two milk kine, two goats, ten fresh salmons, forty gallons of
aqua-vitae [vodka], one humdred gallons of mead, two hundred gallons of
beer, a thousand loaves of white bread, three score bushels of meal, two
thousand eggs, garlic and onions store."

So now we know what they ate from eyewitnes accounts, just not how it was
prepared...


AEschwynne

From t.d.decker at att.net  Tue Jan 15 19:50:34 2013
From: t.d.decker at att.net (Terry Decker)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 21:50:34 -0600
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Rude and Barbarous Kingdom
In-Reply-To: <CALE-c-3TuSOqHY1zp64dYsDWpFEiq33YRJWvB18j1YUci0mAKw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALE-c-3TuSOqHY1zp64dYsDWpFEiq33YRJWvB18j1YUci0mAKw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E24B0A87CF3A4714BE7B9C5ED32E638F@TerryPC>


>  Of all these
> grains the country yieldeth very sufficient and overplus quantity, so that
> the wheat is sold sometime for two *altyny* or ten pense sterling the
> chetvert, which maketh almost three English bushels." [144 lbs of grain]

144 pounds of wheat in Elizabethean measure would be approximately 2.5 
Winchester bushels (an occasionally changing standard measure in use from 
the 8th to the 17th Centuries) rather than the 3 bushels stated.

> and the tedder, a large bird with the
> coloring of a pheasant (a wild turkey or bustard perhaps?) that lived in
> the "fir woods".
>
>
> AEschwynne

Turkeys are New World in origin.and by 1580 they were being farmed in 
Western Europe.  There in no evidence they were present in Russia.  There 
are four species of bustard found in Russia, the Great Bustard (Otis tarda), 
the Houbara Bustard (Chalmydotis undulata), McQueen's Bustard (Chalmydotis 
macqueenii) and the Little Bustard (Tetrax tetrax).  However, these are 
primarily found on the Steppes and other open areas rather than in the 
forest.  So far, I haven't found a good match.

Bear 


From sprucebranch at gmail.com  Tue Jan 15 20:35:54 2013
From: sprucebranch at gmail.com (Ian Kusz)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 20:35:54 -0800
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Rude and Barbarous Kingdom
In-Reply-To: <CALE-c-3TuSOqHY1zp64dYsDWpFEiq33YRJWvB18j1YUci0mAKw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALE-c-3TuSOqHY1zp64dYsDWpFEiq33YRJWvB18j1YUci0mAKw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHofC-S2zTZ6V4q5MN6knyGC=_QOMBtfbgWAs5eh=XReFvV_2g@mail.gmail.com>

shotlanskiy teterev: grouse

On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 7:07 PM, Stephani Ross <the.red.ross at gmail.com>wrote:

> and the tedder, a large bird with the
> coloring of a pheasant (a wild turkey or bustard perhaps?) that lived in
> the "fir woods".
>
>
> AEschwynne
>


-- 
Ian of Oertha

From StefanliRous at austin.rr.com  Tue Jan 15 21:10:06 2013
From: StefanliRous at austin.rr.com (Stefan li Rous)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 23:10:06 -0600
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Herbs
Message-ID: <3779974F-49BD-4CC3-A651-FE6DB45ACEA3@austin.rr.com>

Urtatim mentioned:
<<< So any herb/spice merchant may *think* they're selling one thing, when they're actually selling another, because it's what THEIR vendor told them it was. >>>

Lol. Not just a modern problem, either. Look up some of the fantastical stories about where and how many Europeans thought spices from the East originated!

Not to mention the confusion caused by the New World herbs and spices and the explorers/merchants trying to fit them into what they knew. i.e.: The naming of the New World capsicum peppers being named after the black pepper.

Stefan

--------
THLord Stefan li Rous    Barony of Bryn Gwlad    Kingdom of Ansteorra
   Mark S. Harris           Austin, Texas          StefanliRous at austin.rr.com
http://www.linkedin.com/in/marksharris
**** See Stefan's Florilegium files at:  http://www.florilegium.org ****







From StefanliRous at austin.rr.com  Tue Jan 15 21:27:25 2013
From: StefanliRous at austin.rr.com (Stefan li Rous)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 23:27:25 -0600
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Russian sources
Message-ID: <C1291F72-85A8-4A63-914D-12915EB7E132@austin.rr.com>

Aldyth asked:
<<< I am in the process of finding all things Russian espicially foodwise (Or
therabouts) for our April Yummier event.  I came across an article from
Lisa Kies on strangelove.net.  It also lists the name of Kieser in the page
look up.  Copyright 2007-8 updated July 4 2008.  Lots of fun stuff
there. Is this a good source?  I am familiar with the chronicle of
Novgarod, and The Domostroi.  Many sources are in Russian.  Ideas? >>>

Perhaps these Florilegium files might be useful:
In the CULTURES section:
Rus-Handbook-art (97K) 9/ 2/99 Rus' Handbook from the Eoforwic Novogrod
event AS 24. Edited by Nicolaa de Bracton

Russia-bib (8K) 7/20/94 Bibliography on Russian history.

Russia-msg (78K) 12/19/09 Russian and Kievian Culture and language.

In the FOOD-BY-REGION section:
fd-Russia-msg (94K) 1/19/08 Russian food. Russian cookbooks.

Stefan

--------
THLord Stefan li Rous    Barony of Bryn Gwlad    Kingdom of Ansteorra
   Mark S. Harris           Austin, Texas          StefanliRous at austin.rr.com
http://www.linkedin.com/in/marksharris
**** See Stefan's Florilegium files at:  http://www.florilegium.org ****







From alysk at ix.netcom.com  Wed Jan 16 06:47:29 2013
From: alysk at ix.netcom.com (Elise Fleming)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2013 09:47:29 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] "Medieval" Fruit Bowl
Message-ID: <50F6BD81.4020003@ix.netcom.com>

Greetings!  Heston Blumenthal has a short video of how he prepares a 
"medieval fruit bowl".  The fruit is formed of meat products, coated and 
prepared to look like apples, plums, etc.  One of the ingredients, shown 
in rather a lot of detail, is bull testicle.  You can find the video and 
a related blog at http://bloggingbutler.blogspot.com/ .  Scan down to 
Thursday, November 22.

Bon appetit!

Alys K.
-- 
Elise Fleming
alysk at ix.netcom.com
alyskatharine at gmail.com
http://damealys.medievalcookery.com/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8311418 at N08/sets/

From johnnae at mac.com  Wed Jan 16 06:56:54 2013
From: johnnae at mac.com (Johnna Holloway)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2013 09:56:54 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] "Medieval" Fruit Bowl
In-Reply-To: <50F6BD81.4020003@ix.netcom.com>
References: <50F6BD81.4020003@ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <77D8C824-C8B0-4662-94E5-348E0324D014@mac.com>

Since you brought up the subject, the book Testicles: Balls in Cooking and Culture
Prospect Books; Reprint edition (December 31, 2011) is available.
https://prospectbooks.co.uk/books/978-1-903018-83-5

"This book was first published in France in 2005 and has been magnificently translated into English by the food writer and historian Giles MacDonogh. It is part cookery book, part dictionary, and part cultural study of testicles: human and animal. Their culinary use is the bedrock, although it would be impossible to ignore the wider implications of these anatomical jewels."

I wonder if Heston consulted it.

Johnnae

On Jan 16, 2013, at 9:47 AM, Elise Fleming wrote:

> Greetings!  Heston Blumenthal has a short video of how he prepares a "medieval fruit bowl".  The fruit is formed of meat products, coated and prepared to look like apples, plums, etc.  One of the ingredients, shown in rather a lot of detail, is bull testicle.  You can find the video and a related blog at http://bloggingbutler.blogspot.com/ .  Scan down to Thursday, November 22.
> 
> Bon appetit!
> 
> Alys K.

From johnnae at mac.com  Wed Jan 16 11:53:26 2013
From: johnnae at mac.com (Johnna Holloway)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2013 14:53:26 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] New Bibliography has been published
Message-ID: <00B5B316-3D60-44E9-BE64-2261A10F06DC@mac.com>

The new Gauntlet (regional newsletter for Pentamere) has been published with the latest and quite probably the last installment
of my bibliographic series.  The topic this time was

Medieval and Renaissance Cookery and Cookbooks of Italy 


Volume 2013 # 1      A.S. LXVI


http://www.midrealm.org/pentamere/pentamere_gauntlet.html

Click on Volume 2013 #1 and the .pdf will download.

Hope you enjoy it

Johnnae llyn Lewis

From the.red.ross at gmail.com  Wed Jan 16 12:30:38 2013
From: the.red.ross at gmail.com (Stephani Ross)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2013 15:30:38 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Rude and Barbarous Kingdom
Message-ID: <CALE-c-1PQ_Jg4Gb8Ri=Gne+SjweHEW+PTn=GkvpVrek-s6Wd3Q@mail.gmail.com>

Turkey was meant to be more or less descriptive. I know the bird that we
call the turkey is New World only. However, I had no idea they had four
bustard birds in Russia! Any of them still around, or are they extinct too?
Thank you Ian for clearing up that a teter(ev) is a grouse. Bear, what is
your source for the different bustards? I am interested in learning more
about them.

AEschwynne

From JIMCHEVAL at aol.com  Wed Jan 16 12:36:48 2013
From: JIMCHEVAL at aol.com (JIMCHEVAL at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2013 15:36:48 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Rude and Barbarous Kingdom
Message-ID: <123f9.23230040.3e28695f@aol.com>

For what it's worth, Anthimus writes: "A bird which is  called bustard is 
good, but I think is not to be had  here." 'Here' would have been 
northeastern Gaul; his familiarity with the bird  would have been from Byzantium, his 
home country. (Though in fact it seems the  bustard does exist in France 
today and probably did then as  well.)
 
Jim  Chevallier
www.chezjim.com

Newly translated from Pierre Jean-Baptiste  Le Grand d'Aussy:
Eggs, Cheese and Butter in Old Regime France  

 
In a message dated 1/16/2013 12:30:42 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,  
the.red.ross at gmail.com writes:

However,  I had no idea they had four
bustard birds in Russia! Any of them still  around, or are they extinct too?
Thank you Ian for clearing up that a  teter(ev) is a grouse. Bear, what is
your source for the different  bustards? I am interested in learning more
about  them.



From t.d.decker at att.net  Wed Jan 16 13:22:13 2013
From: t.d.decker at att.net (Terry Decker)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2013 15:22:13 -0600
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Rude and Barbarous Kingdom
In-Reply-To: <CALE-c-1PQ_Jg4Gb8Ri=Gne+SjweHEW+PTn=GkvpVrek-s6Wd3Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALE-c-1PQ_Jg4Gb8Ri=Gne+SjweHEW+PTn=GkvpVrek-s6Wd3Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9E68679725644E648744604BB59FF9E5@TerryPC>

"Turkey" has also been used for the Hungarian guinea fowl, but by 1580 in 
English it was most likely referencing actual turkeys.

You need to thank Ian for the reference to grouse.

And while I could direct you to a number of esoteric natural histories (some 
of which live in xerox on my shelf), let's keep it simple.  I found a list 
of the Birds of Russia on Wikipedia a few months ago. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_birds_of_Russia

Enjoy.

Bear

> Turkey was meant to be more or less descriptive. I know the bird that we
> call the turkey is New World only. However, I had no idea they had four
> bustard birds in Russia! Any of them still around, or are they extinct 
> too?
> Thank you Ian for clearing up that a teter(ev) is a grouse. Bear, what is
> your source for the different bustards? I am interested in learning more
> about them.
>
> AEschwynne


From otsisto at socket.net  Wed Jan 16 18:02:06 2013
From: otsisto at socket.net (otsisto)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2013 20:02:06 -0600
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Rude and Barbarous Kingdom
In-Reply-To: <CALE-c-3TuSOqHY1zp64dYsDWpFEiq33YRJWvB18j1YUci0mAKw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <IDEHICPIJOEBPADHEOGPIEDJEKAB.otsisto@socket.net>

New World Turkeys appear in Campi's Fowl seller. I will have to look up the
date but I believe it is mid 1500s.
>From an old NPR, in Russia the turkey is called Injushka "bird of India"
There is a very slim possibility that it is a turkey via India.

Grouse (all are listed as medium sized birds but they dwell in forests.
The siberian grouse.
http://tinyurl.com/awjl3ty
Ptarmigan
Capercallie

Of the pheasants
Ring-neck pheasant.

The great bustard is not colorful as thier pheasant. Breeds and lives in
grassland areas.
The Houbara Bustard is small to medium in size and quite dull in color. It
is a desert/arid land breeding bird and is not known to wander far from
their territory. Found in N. Africa, Iran, Saudi Arabia, India, Pakistan,
China.... I don't know why the list of Russian birds list this one as other
sources do not.
MacQueen's Bustard are wanderers and are from southwestern Asia but some are
said to have wandered to Europe. It is lighter color then the Houbara.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Chlamydotis_macqueenii_1921.jpg

Little Bustard breed in grasslands.



From t.d.decker at att.net  Wed Jan 16 20:08:56 2013
From: t.d.decker at att.net (Terry Decker)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2013 22:08:56 -0600
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Rude and Barbarous Kingdom
In-Reply-To: <IDEHICPIJOEBPADHEOGPIEDJEKAB.otsisto@socket.net>
References: <IDEHICPIJOEBPADHEOGPIEDJEKAB.otsisto@socket.net>
Message-ID: <838132EB30EF4FE385EA832778E7EEDA@TerryPC>




> New World Turkeys appear in Campi's Fowl seller. I will have to look up 
> the
> date but I believe it is mid 1500s.

1590, IIRC.  Vincenzo Campi is 1539-1591.  Most of his work dates from the 
latter half of the 16th Century and the Bird Seller is the style of his 
later work.

> From an old NPR, in Russia the turkey is called Injushka "bird of India"
> There is a very slim possibility that it is a turkey via India.
>

Simple confusion about India and the West Indies can explain it.  Given 
Rumpolt, I would hazard that the turkey arrived from Germany via Poland.

> The Houbara Bustard is small to medium in size and quite dull in color. It
> is a desert/arid land breeding bird and is not known to wander far from
> their territory. Found in N. Africa, Iran, Saudi Arabia, India, Pakistan,
> China.... I don't know why the list of Russian birds list this one as 
> other
> sources do not.

Russia shares habitat with Kazakhstan and China.

Bear 


From ranvaig at columbus.rr.com  Wed Jan 16 22:37:27 2013
From: ranvaig at columbus.rr.com (Sharon Palmer)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 01:37:27 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Rude and Barbarous Kingdom
In-Reply-To: <IDEHICPIJOEBPADHEOGPIEDJEKAB.otsisto@socket.net>
References: <IDEHICPIJOEBPADHEOGPIEDJEKAB.otsisto@socket.net>
Message-ID: <p06010247cd1d425b50df@[10.0.1.112]>

Rumpolt 1581 has recipes for Indianischen Henn 
complete with a drawing that is clearly a New 
World turkey.  Judging by the number of times it 
is mentioned, turkey is already very popular.

"Indianishen" is used for several other things 
that are probably also New World varieties. 
Indianische Schweinlein  and Indianische 
Fercklein (Guinea pig), and Indianische Bonen 
(perhaps New World beans).  I think the name is 
because Columbus thought the New World was India, 
not that the things came from India.

(Btw here is a link on eating Guinea pig 
http://www.eattheweeds.com/guinea-pigs-cavy-cuy/ 
)

Also recipes for Eagle, Ostrich, Bustard, swan, 
Wood Grouse, Black grouse, Rock Pheasant, 
Pheasant, Pelican (appolgies to peers), heron, 
crane, peacock, Wild goose, Domestic goose, Wild 
duck, "Mittel Endten" or Pintail duck, 
"Duckendten" or Diving duck, Pletzlein (another 
kind of duck I haven't identified), Capon, Old 
hen, Young chicken, Hazel Grouse, Partridge, 
Woodcock, Green woodpecker, Raven, tame dove, 
Turtledove, Quail, Fieldfare Thrush, Thrush 
Trostle, Blackbird, larks, Starling, Nightingale, 
Frigate Bird, Swift, small swallows, White crow, 
cuckoo, Hoopoe, Wren, and "allerley kleinen 
V?geln" various small birds.

Ranvaig

>New World Turkeys appear in Campi's Fowl seller. I will have to look up the
>date but I believe it is mid 1500s.
>From an old NPR, in Russia the turkey is called Injushka "bird of India"
>There is a very slim possibility that it is a turkey via India.

From dama.antonia at gmail.com  Thu Jan 17 01:26:12 2013
From: dama.antonia at gmail.com (Antonia di Benedetto Calvo)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 22:26:12 +1300
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Rude and Barbarous Kingdom
In-Reply-To: <p06010247cd1d425b50df@[10.0.1.112]>
References: <IDEHICPIJOEBPADHEOGPIEDJEKAB.otsisto@socket.net>
	<p06010247cd1d425b50df@[10.0.1.112]>
Message-ID: <50F7C3B4.7070501@gmail.com>

On 17/01/2013 7:37 p.m., Sharon Palmer wrote:
> Rumpolt 1581 has recipes for Indianischen Henn complete with a drawing 
> that is clearly a New World turkey. Judging by the number of times it 
> is mentioned, turkey is already very popular.
>
> "Indianishen" is used for several other things that are probably also 
> New World varieties. Indianische Schweinlein  and Indianische 
> Fercklein (Guinea pig), and Indianische Bonen (perhaps New World 
> beans).  I think the name is because Columbus thought the New World 
> was India, not that the things came from India.
>
>

Scappi also has recipes for the "pollanche d'India" (Indian chicken, ie, 
turkey), which he praises very highly, and also the "anatre d'India" 
(the Muscovy duck).

IIRC, it's just a mostly a linguistic quirk that assigns "exotic" items 
to slightly random geography. In Germany the turkey was "Indianshe", as 
Ranvaig mentions, and also sometimes "Kalkuttische".  In France and 
Italy it was an "Indian" bird, and in English it was (and still is) 
Turkish(!).

Just to complicate matters, the Turks call it 'hindi' and the Indians 
call it Peruvian :-)




-- 
Antonia di Benedetto Calvo
-------------------------------------
Saccharum pergratum. Villum lubricum.


From trekatz at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 17 10:04:53 2013
From: trekatz at yahoo.com (Tre)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 10:04:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] (no subject)
Message-ID: <1358445893.26597.YahooMailNeo@web142606.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

Hi,



http://www.dick-schwimmbadueberdachung.de/images/stories/lifenews.php?summer291.bmp

If at first you don't succeed, work for Microsoft.

Best wishes
Tre
1/17/2013 7:04:52 PM

From trekatz at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 17 10:05:00 2013
From: trekatz at yahoo.com (Tre)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 10:05:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] (no subject)
Message-ID: <1358445900.86331.YahooMailNeo@web142601.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

http://www.diekleinenhotels.de/images/stories/likeit.php?winter291.jpeg
If variety is the spice of life, marriage is the beige can of leftover Spam. -- Johnny Carson

Best regards

Tre

1/17/2013 7:04:58 PM

From johnnae at mac.com  Thu Jan 17 10:23:25 2013
From: johnnae at mac.com (Johnna Holloway)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 13:23:25 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] The Taste starts 1/22
Message-ID: <0D3DF8B5-92A1-4459-9521-33E94DE49D1E@mac.com>

Somehow I don't hold out much hope for a show that is going up against
NCIS. Anthony Bourdain is no Mark Harmon.

http://eater.com/archives/2013/01/17/watch-an-exclusive-preview-of-the-taste.php

Johnnae

From sjk3 at cornell.edu  Thu Jan 17 10:37:49 2013
From: sjk3 at cornell.edu (Sandra J. Kisner)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 18:37:49 +0000
Subject: [Sca-cooks] The Taste starts 1/22
In-Reply-To: <0D3DF8B5-92A1-4459-9521-33E94DE49D1E@mac.com>
References: <0D3DF8B5-92A1-4459-9521-33E94DE49D1E@mac.com>
Message-ID: <66B77324292D9C439D75C2952BFFBBB502BB44@BLUPRD0412MB596.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>

Not to mention the unfortunate names of the other two judges, Ludo ("joke") and Malarkey ("bs").   Just because those really are their names doesn't make it much better.

Sandra

-----Original Message-----
From: sca-cooks-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org [mailto:sca-cooks-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org] On Behalf Of Johnna Holloway
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2013 1:23 PM
To: Cooks within the SCA
Subject: [Sca-cooks] The Taste starts 1/22

Somehow I don't hold out much hope for a show that is going up against NCIS. Anthony Bourdain is no Mark Harmon.

http://eater.com/archives/2013/01/17/watch-an-exclusive-preview-of-the-taste.php

Johnnae
_______________________________________________
Sca-cooks mailing list
Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org



From susanrlin at gmail.com  Thu Jan 17 14:32:31 2013
From: susanrlin at gmail.com (Susan Lin)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 15:32:31 -0700
Subject: [Sca-cooks] The Taste starts 1/22
In-Reply-To: <0D3DF8B5-92A1-4459-9521-33E94DE49D1E@mac.com>
References: <0D3DF8B5-92A1-4459-9521-33E94DE49D1E@mac.com>
Message-ID: <CAHkO8TS7CqQ1fqQmuY3j9MEvL6Bkrfp7SJ+x0HpXobuDKfLDCg@mail.gmail.com>

Not in this household.  Mark Harmon will always win out.  I admit to being
shallow.

-S

On Thu, Jan 17, 2013 at 11:23 AM, Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com> wrote:

> Somehow I don't hold out much hope for a show that is going up against
> NCIS. Anthony Bourdain is no Mark Harmon.
>
>
> http://eater.com/archives/2013/01/17/watch-an-exclusive-preview-of-the-taste.php
>
> Johnnae
> _______________________________________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org
>

From karobert at unm.edu  Thu Jan 17 14:42:09 2013
From: karobert at unm.edu (Kathleen Roberts)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 22:42:09 +0000
Subject: [Sca-cooks] The Taste starts 1/22
In-Reply-To: <CAHkO8TS7CqQ1fqQmuY3j9MEvL6Bkrfp7SJ+x0HpXobuDKfLDCg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <0D3DF8B5-92A1-4459-9521-33E94DE49D1E@mac.com>,
	<CAHkO8TS7CqQ1fqQmuY3j9MEvL6Bkrfp7SJ+x0HpXobuDKfLDCg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AF2F1DA7964D6344A6B72C61AC9AA953050D9A1E@CH1PRD0711MB432.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>

Nah, bad boys rule.   I love Bourdain.
Cailte

Kathleen Roberts

Admissions Advisor

University of New Mexico

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Being Irish, he had an abiding sense of tragedy, which sustained him through temporary periods of joy."  W.B. Yeats



"The hand that rocks the ladle rules the world."  Nadia G.

________________________________________
From: sca-cooks-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org [sca-cooks-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org] on behalf of Susan Lin [susanrlin at gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2013 3:32 PM
To: Cooks within the SCA
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] The Taste starts 1/22

Not in this household.  Mark Harmon will always win out.  I admit to being
shallow.

-S

On Thu, Jan 17, 2013 at 11:23 AM, Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com> wrote:

> Somehow I don't hold out much hope for a show that is going up against
> NCIS. Anthony Bourdain is no Mark Harmon.
>
>
> http://eater.com/archives/2013/01/17/watch-an-exclusive-preview-of-the-taste.php
>
> Johnnae
> _______________________________________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org
>
_______________________________________________
Sca-cooks mailing list
Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org

From galefridus at optimum.net  Fri Jan 18 09:40:03 2013
From: galefridus at optimum.net (galefridus at optimum.net)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 17:40:03 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Neolithic strainer hints at origin of cheese
Message-ID: <e498f48813b9d.50f988f3@optonline.net>

Way outside our period, but pretty cool anyway.

http://www.futurity.org/society-culture/neolithic-strainer-hints-at-origin-of-cheese/

From t.d.decker at att.net  Fri Jan 18 10:10:21 2013
From: t.d.decker at att.net (Terry Decker)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 12:10:21 -0600
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Neolithic strainer hints at origin of cheese
In-Reply-To: <e498f48813b9d.50f988f3@optonline.net>
References: <e498f48813b9d.50f988f3@optonline.net>
Message-ID: <BCF683FA063A4313931899D9CB3644F4@TerryPC>

Yeah.  I heard this on NPR just after the paper was released in Nature. 
What strikes me as interesting in the Futurity article is the claim that the 
Neolithic farmers were lactose intolerant.  I did some quick checking and 
the claim is based on statements by evolutionary geneticist, Mark Thomas. 
Similar chemical analysis by Richard Evershed, one of the authors, suggests 
that yogurt was being produced in southwest Libya at approximately the same 
time.

Bear




----- Original Message ----- 
From: <galefridus at optimum.net>



> Way outside our period, but pretty cool anyway.
>
> http://www.futurity.org/society-culture/neolithic-strainer-hints-at-origin-of-cheese/


From JIMCHEVAL at aol.com  Fri Jan 18 11:52:51 2013
From: JIMCHEVAL at aol.com (JIMCHEVAL at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 14:52:51 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] =?utf-8?q?Someone_Is_Kidnapping_and_Eating_Britain?=
 =?utf-8?q?=E2=80=99s_Swans?=
Message-ID: <a982.570ca4e8.3e2b0213@aol.com>

Hmmm..... What kind of person might have a recipe for swan? Wherever would  
one find such a person?
 
_http://newsfeed.time.com/2013/01/18/someone-is-kidnapping-and-eating-britai
ns-swans/_ 
(http://newsfeed.time.com/2013/01/18/someone-is-kidnapping-and-eating-britains-swans/) 
 
Jim  Chevallier
www.chezjim.com

Newly translated from Pierre Jean-Baptiste  Le Grand d'Aussy:
Eggs, Cheese and Butter in Old Regime  France

From JIMCHEVAL at aol.com  Fri Jan 18 13:33:36 2013
From: JIMCHEVAL at aol.com (JIMCHEVAL at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 16:33:36 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Fourteenth century Norman fork
Message-ID: <dd53.e742a03.3e2b19ad@aol.com>

I imagine most people here know that table forks  weren't used (in France 
at least) until well after the medieval period; some may  have been used in 
kitchens.

This document (from persee.fr) on domestic  objects and arms from Normandy 
made of iron is interesting overall; among other  things it includes an 
image of a fourteenth century fork (on page  214):

Corpus des objets domestiques et des armes en fer de Normandie. Du  Ier au 
XVe si?cle 
Patrick Halbout , Christian Pilet , Catherine  Vaudour    Cahier des 
Annales de  Normandie     Year   1986     Volume   20    Issue   20     pp. 1-255  

http://www.persee.fr/web/revues/home/prescript/article/annor_0570-1600_1986_
hos_20_1_4129?_Prescripts_Search_tabs1=standard&

Jim  Chevallier
www.chezjim.com

Newly translated from Pierre Jean-Baptiste  Le Grand d'Aussy:
Eggs, Cheese and Butter in Old Regime France  


From chimene at ravensgard.org  Fri Jan 18 14:45:46 2013
From: chimene at ravensgard.org (Patricia Dunham)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 14:45:46 -0800
Subject: [Sca-cooks] The Taste starts 1/22
In-Reply-To: <0D3DF8B5-92A1-4459-9521-33E94DE49D1E@mac.com>
References: <0D3DF8B5-92A1-4459-9521-33E94DE49D1E@mac.com>
Message-ID: <F0FE3343-A23C-4FC5-9824-17F5E8F10B5F@ravensgard.org>

that's what the Tivo-machine is for, eh? ch.

On Jan 17, 2013, at 10:23 AM, Johnna Holloway wrote:

> Somehow I don't hold out much hope for a show that is going up against
> NCIS. Anthony Bourdain is no Mark Harmon.
> 
> http://eater.com/archives/2013/01/17/watch-an-exclusive-preview-of-the-taste.php


From johnnae at mac.com  Fri Jan 18 17:09:26 2013
From: johnnae at mac.com (Johnna Holloway)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 20:09:26 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks]
 =?windows-1252?q?Someone_Is_Kidnapping_and_Eating_Bri?=
 =?windows-1252?q?tain=92s_Swans?=
In-Reply-To: <a982.570ca4e8.3e2b0213@aol.com>
References: <a982.570ca4e8.3e2b0213@aol.com>
Message-ID: <35AAB981-90D2-4216-8064-79590E45819E@mac.com>

http://www.medievalcookery.com/search/search.html?term=swan&file=all 
has recipes for swans.

Johnnae

On Jan 18, 2013, at 2:52 PM, JIMCHEVAL at aol.com wrote:

> Hmmm..... What kind of person might have a recipe for swan? Wherever would  
> one find such a person?
> 
> _http://newsfeed.time.com/2013/01/18/someone-is-kidnapping-and-eating-britai
> ns-swans/_ 
> (http://newsfeed.time.com/2013/01/18/someone-is-kidnapping-and-eating-britains-swans/) 
> 
> Jim  Chevallier
> www.chezjim.com


From mary.doug at pierocarey.info  Fri Jan 18 17:16:56 2013
From: mary.doug at pierocarey.info (Mary + Doug Piero Carey)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 20:16:56 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Holiday spoon-teasing
In-Reply-To: <mailman.66275.1357192698.34820.sca-cooks-ansteorra.org@lists.ansteorra.org>
References: <mailman.66275.1357192698.34820.sca-cooks-ansteorra.org@lists.ansteorra.org>
Message-ID: <50F9F408.8020609@pierocarey.info>

Well, I have been behind on my list-reading and everyone's dinners 
sounded wonderful!  I have just one thing to say: Gwen Cat, you horrible 
spoon-tease!!!  Your Star of the Season salad sounds gorgeous, but where 
are the instructions?  Deep layers in a bowl?  Flat layers on a platter? 
   Dressing?  What kind?  Mixed with the individual ingredients before 
assembly?  Served on the side?  Drizzled in pretty patterns over the 
platter?  Argh!!

Enlighten me, please!

Groveling prettily,

Mary



From JIMCHEVAL at aol.com  Fri Jan 18 17:49:08 2013
From: JIMCHEVAL at aol.com (JIMCHEVAL at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 20:49:08 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] =?utf-8?q?Someone_Is_Kidnapping_and_Eating_Britain?=
 =?utf-8?q?=E2=80=99s_Swans?=
Message-ID: <13cd8.14aa5643.3e2b5594@aol.com>

I scribed in jest, Johnnae. I would imagine a  number of people here know 
recipes for swan - not least because it was often  made the same way as 
peacock (and what self-respecting medieval cook doesn't  know how to make THAT?).

Since in fact I doubt a band of rogue medieval  cooks is going around doing 
this, I'm left to wonder just how hungry these folks  are. From what I've 
read of the game birds preferred by the upper classes of the  late medieval 
period, none are very appetizing (not even peacock, which already  got a bad 
rap from the medical authorities of the time).

Not that I want  to encourage any criminal activity (nor severe 
indigestion), but should anyone  perchance have not yet encountered such a recipe, 
here's one from my translation  of the Enseingnemenz:

"Swans and peacocks
All swans, peacocks: first  drain out all the blood through the head, 
after, split them down the back to the  shoulder and gut them, and then put them 
on skewers with the feet and the heads;  then crush up saffron and white 
bread mixed with wine, and crush up egg yolks  and saffron, and dab the birds 
with these, using a feather, and sprinkle powder  over it, which is also of 
all spices, except zedoary and hartwort. And when the  swan or the peacock is 
cooked, wipe it, wrap it in a towel, and take it so to  the table, and give 
to the lord the neck and the head, and the wings and the  thighs, and the 
rest to the others."

Jim  Chevallier
www.chezjim.com

Newly translated from Pierre Jean-Baptiste  Le Grand d'Aussy:
Eggs, Cheese and Butter in Old Regime France 

In a  message dated 1/18/2013 5:09:32 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, 
johnnae at mac.com  writes:
http://www.medievalcookery.com/search/search.html?term=swan&file=all  
has recipes for swans.

Johnnae  


From johnnae at mac.com  Sat Jan 19 08:11:10 2013
From: johnnae at mac.com (Johnna Holloway)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 11:11:10 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks]
 =?windows-1252?q?Someone_Is_Kidnapping_and_Eating_Bri?=
 =?windows-1252?q?tain=92s_Swans?=
In-Reply-To: <13cd8.14aa5643.3e2b5594@aol.com>
References: <13cd8.14aa5643.3e2b5594@aol.com>
Message-ID: <F42A2885-B22A-4B76-8EEC-0B842A1F425B@mac.com>

I suspect with that between the RSPCA rewards, public outrage and CCTV,
the scoundrels will get caught and turn out to be teens with too much time
on their hands. 

Our problems here in MIchigan with swans being killed primarily are cars and jet skiers.
We had an entire family of swans wiped out with a car a couple years back. People were
outraged. Rewards offered etc.


Johnnae




From alysk at ix.netcom.com  Sat Jan 19 12:39:05 2013
From: alysk at ix.netcom.com (Elise Fleming)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 15:39:05 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Fourteenth century Norman fork
Message-ID: <50FB0469.8000100@ix.netcom.com>

Jim  Chevallier wrote:

 >I imagine most people here know that table forks  weren't used (in 
 >France at least) until well after the medieval period; some may  have 
 >been used in kitchens.

 >This document (from persee.fr) on domestic  objects and arms from 
 >Normandy made of iron is interesting overall; among other  things it 
 >includes an image of a fourteenth century fork (on page  214):

 >Corpus des objets domestiques et des armes en fer de Normandie. Du 
Ier >au XVe si?cle Patrick Halbout , Christian Pilet , Catherine 
Vaudour    >Cahier des Annales de  Normandie     Year   1986     Volume 
   20    >Issue   20     pp. 1-255

 >http://www.persee.fr/web/revues/home/prescript/article/annor_0570-1600_1986_
 >hos_20_1_4129?_Prescripts_Search_tabs1=standard&

 From what I can make out of the French, they're calling this a "fork of 
the table".  Leaving out the diacritical marks, the text says: "Les 
fourchettes de table sont connues pour etre des objects de curiosite au 
moyen age, e l'on y recontre des fourchettes a pot, de grande taille, 
dont le manche se termine en crochet our en oeilleton.  Les deus cas 
illustres par Blangy ne s'inscrivent dans aucune serie bien connue (no 
858, et une autre 'miniscule fourchette en cuivre a laquelle nous n'avon 
pu attribuer de destination', pl. 80, fig. 4 et p.55).

Certainly, cooking forks were known.  I wonder if this smaller fork 
might have been used in the dining hall to hold down pieces of meat 
while they were being carved.  I don't see any comments that this fork 
was used to convey food to the mouth by individual diners.

Alys K.
-- 
Elise Fleming
alysk at ix.netcom.com
alyskatharine at gmail.com
http://damealys.medievalcookery.com/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8311418 at N08/sets/

From katiracook at hotmail.com  Sat Jan 19 14:19:32 2013
From: katiracook at hotmail.com (K C Francis)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 14:19:32 -0800
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Russian sources
In-Reply-To: <1358269231.47374.YahooMailClassic@web140904.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.82413.1358207910.34820.sca-cooks-ansteorra.org@lists.ansteorra.org>,
	<1358269231.47374.YahooMailClassic@web140904.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BLU172-W45BE0C8949498B2610F09EC3110@phx.gbl>


Greetings,
 
It is available on Amazon.  The Marin Library system now includes the Dominican Collection and they have it.  I just requested it.   
 
I'm interested in Russian food because I like to enjoy the foods and drinks of the country hosting the Olympics 
while I watch it on tv.  A couple of weeks ago I did an ethnic shopping trip in SF.  Oriental and Middle Eastern on Clement, the Greek place in Daly City and lots of Russian places.  I now have a shopping list for next February but I am still looking for recipes and ideas.
 
Thank you Juana,
 
Katira
 
> Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 09:00:31 -0800
> From: donnaegreen at yahoo.com
> To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> Subject: [Sca-cooks] Russian sources
> 
> 
> Another possibility for Russian sources, if you can find it, is a book called "Rude and Barbarous Kingdom". It is a collection of reports written by 16th c Englishmen who travelled through Russian scouting out markets, politics, etc. ... basically spying, but in a broad sense. It won't give you specific recipes, but it will tell you some information about food production of the time and place.
> 
> Juana Isabella
> 
> > Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 15:17:18 -0700
> > From: Deborah Hammons <mistressaldyth at gmail.com>
> > To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
> > Subject: [Sca-cooks] Russian sources
> > 
> > Greetings all!
> > 
> > I am in the process of finding all things Russian espicially
> > foodwise (Or
> > therabouts) for our April Yummier event.  I came across
> > an article from
> > Lisa Kies on strangelove.net.  It also lists the name
> > of Kieser in the page
> > look up.  Copyright 2007-8 updated July 4 2008. 
> > Lots of fun stuff
> > there. Is this a good source?  I am familiar with the
> > chronicle of
> > Novgarod, and The Domostroi.  Many sources are in
> > Russian.  Ideas?
> > 
> > Aldyth
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org
 		 	   		  

From jimandandi at cox.net  Sat Jan 19 14:30:11 2013
From: jimandandi at cox.net (Jim and Andi Houston)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 17:30:11 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Russian sources
In-Reply-To: <BLU172-W45BE0C8949498B2610F09EC3110@phx.gbl>
References: <mailman.82413.1358207910.34820.sca-cooks-ansteorra.org@lists.ansteorra.org>,
	<1358269231.47374.YahooMailClassic@web140904.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
	<BLU172-W45BE0C8949498B2610F09EC3110@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <009d01cdf694$8b485ae0$a1d910a0$@cox.net>

I did a Russian feast a few years ago and did a tasting platter of all of
the things I wanted to serve but were either expensive enough to only be
able to afford a tiny serving, or were too weird. I served smoked eel,
various Russian pickles, and a beet and horseradish relish. It was wildly
successful.

Madhavi

-----Original Message-----
From: sca-cooks-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org
[mailto:sca-cooks-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org] On Behalf Of K C Francis
Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2013 5:20 PM
To: Cooks within the SCA
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Russian sources


Greetings,
 
It is available on Amazon.  The Marin Library system now includes the
Dominican Collection and they have it.  I just requested it.   
 
I'm interested in Russian food because I like to enjoy the foods and drinks
of the country hosting the Olympics while I watch it on tv.  A couple of
weeks ago I did an ethnic shopping trip in SF.  Oriental and Middle Eastern
on Clement, the Greek place in Daly City and lots of Russian places.  I now
have a shopping list for next February but I am still looking for recipes
and ideas.
 
Thank you Juana,
 
Katira
 
> Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 09:00:31 -0800
> From: donnaegreen at yahoo.com
> To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> Subject: [Sca-cooks] Russian sources
> 
> 
> Another possibility for Russian sources, if you can find it, is a book
called "Rude and Barbarous Kingdom". It is a collection of reports written
by 16th c Englishmen who travelled through Russian scouting out markets,
politics, etc. ... basically spying, but in a broad sense. It won't give you
specific recipes, but it will tell you some information about food
production of the time and place.
> 
> Juana Isabella
> 
> > Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 15:17:18 -0700
> > From: Deborah Hammons <mistressaldyth at gmail.com>
> > To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
> > Subject: [Sca-cooks] Russian sources
> > 
> > Greetings all!
> > 
> > I am in the process of finding all things Russian espicially 
> > foodwise (Or
> > therabouts) for our April Yummier event.  I came across an article 
> > from Lisa Kies on strangelove.net.  It also lists the name of Kieser 
> > in the page look up.  Copyright 2007-8 updated July 4 2008.
> > Lots of fun stuff
> > there. Is this a good source?  I am familiar with the chronicle of 
> > Novgarod, and The Domostroi.  Many sources are in Russian.  Ideas?
> > 
> > Aldyth
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org
 		 	   		  
_______________________________________________
Sca-cooks mailing list
Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org


From katiracook at hotmail.com  Sat Jan 19 14:41:16 2013
From: katiracook at hotmail.com (K C Francis)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 14:41:16 -0800
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Russian sources
In-Reply-To: <009d01cdf694$8b485ae0$a1d910a0$@cox.net>
References: <mailman.82413.1358207910.34820.sca-cooks-ansteorra.org@lists.ansteorra.org>,
	, <1358269231.47374.YahooMailClassic@web140904.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>,
	<BLU172-W45BE0C8949498B2610F09EC3110@phx.gbl>,
	<009d01cdf694$8b485ae0$a1d910a0$@cox.net>
Message-ID: <BLU172-W3183CD06FBCD0EF7790192C3110@phx.gbl>


Ha! What a great idea.  So far my Olympic adventures have been of cultures I know something about and enjoy.  I truly enjoyed my Greek, Italian, Chinese, Canadian and British adventures!  Having some problems with upcoming Brazil and especially Korea.  After that it could be Spain or Turkey or Japan and I look forward to any of them hoping I am still around and cooking.  
 
Katira
 

> From: jimandandi at cox.net
> To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 17:30:11 -0500
> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Russian sources
> 
> I did a Russian feast a few years ago and did a tasting platter of all of
> the things I wanted to serve but were either expensive enough to only be
> able to afford a tiny serving, or were too weird. I served smoked eel,
> various Russian pickles, and a beet and horseradish relish. It was wildly
> successful.
> 
> Madhavi
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: sca-cooks-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org
> [mailto:sca-cooks-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org] On Behalf Of K C Francis
> Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2013 5:20 PM
> To: Cooks within the SCA
> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Russian sources
> 
> 
> Greetings,
> 
> It is available on Amazon. The Marin Library system now includes the
> Dominican Collection and they have it. I just requested it. 
> 
> I'm interested in Russian food because I like to enjoy the foods and drinks
> of the country hosting the Olympics while I watch it on tv. A couple of
> weeks ago I did an ethnic shopping trip in SF. Oriental and Middle Eastern
> on Clement, the Greek place in Daly City and lots of Russian places. I now
> have a shopping list for next February but I am still looking for recipes
> and ideas.
> 
> Thank you Juana,
> 
> Katira
> 
> > Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 09:00:31 -0800
> > From: donnaegreen at yahoo.com
> > To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> > Subject: [Sca-cooks] Russian sources
> > 
> > 
> > Another possibility for Russian sources, if you can find it, is a book
> called "Rude and Barbarous Kingdom". It is a collection of reports written
> by 16th c Englishmen who travelled through Russian scouting out markets,
> politics, etc. ... basically spying, but in a broad sense. It won't give you
> specific recipes, but it will tell you some information about food
> production of the time and place.
> > 
> > Juana Isabella
> > 
> > > Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 15:17:18 -0700
> > > From: Deborah Hammons <mistressaldyth at gmail.com>
> > > To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
> > > Subject: [Sca-cooks] Russian sources
> > > 
> > > Greetings all!
> > > 
> > > I am in the process of finding all things Russian espicially 
> > > foodwise (Or
> > > therabouts) for our April Yummier event. I came across an article 
> > > from Lisa Kies on strangelove.net. It also lists the name of Kieser 
> > > in the page look up. Copyright 2007-8 updated July 4 2008.
> > > Lots of fun stuff
> > > there. Is this a good source? I am familiar with the chronicle of 
> > > Novgarod, and The Domostroi. Many sources are in Russian. Ideas?
> > > 
> > > Aldyth
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sca-cooks mailing list
> > Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> > http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org
 		 	   		  

From susanrlin at gmail.com  Sat Jan 19 15:48:12 2013
From: susanrlin at gmail.com (Susan Lin)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 16:48:12 -0700
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Russian sources
In-Reply-To: <009d01cdf694$8b485ae0$a1d910a0$@cox.net>
References: <mailman.82413.1358207910.34820.sca-cooks-ansteorra.org@lists.ansteorra.org>
	<1358269231.47374.YahooMailClassic@web140904.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
	<BLU172-W45BE0C8949498B2610F09EC3110@phx.gbl>
	<009d01cdf694$8b485ae0$a1d910a0$@cox.net>
Message-ID: <CAHkO8TQy+EhBN4wsE1ejTZBhrB3hORkJRg1F=Lsf-rkde3oqiQ@mail.gmail.com>

I also did a Russian feast a few years ago but to get a greater variety I
kinda swam from the Balkans to the Baltic.
I picked 2 tongues and though (hoped) I'd be bringing both home - no soap -
every last piece went.  Same for the gravlax and everything but the kasha.
I even had some people bring kvass of various sorts - it was nice to let
the brewers play.

I wanted to use caviar but it was out of price range so we went with
cavi-art.  Made out of seaweed.  It was more for affect than for people to
eat in big bunches.

Shoshanah

On Sat, Jan 19, 2013 at 3:30 PM, Jim and Andi Houston <jimandandi at cox.net>wrote:

> I did a Russian feast a few years ago and did a tasting platter of all of
> the things I wanted to serve but were either expensive enough to only be
> able to afford a tiny serving, or were too weird. I served smoked eel,
> various Russian pickles, and a beet and horseradish relish. It was wildly
> successful.
>
> Madhavi
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: sca-cooks-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org
> [mailto:sca-cooks-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org] On Behalf Of K C Francis
> Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2013 5:20 PM
> To: Cooks within the SCA
> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Russian sources
>
>
> Greetings,
>
> It is available on Amazon.  The Marin Library system now includes the
> Dominican Collection and they have it.  I just requested it.
>
> I'm interested in Russian food because I like to enjoy the foods and drinks
> of the country hosting the Olympics while I watch it on tv.  A couple of
> weeks ago I did an ethnic shopping trip in SF.  Oriental and Middle Eastern
> on Clement, the Greek place in Daly City and lots of Russian places.  I now
> have a shopping list for next February but I am still looking for recipes
> and ideas.
>
> Thank you Juana,
>
> Katira
>
> > Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 09:00:31 -0800
> > From: donnaegreen at yahoo.com
> > To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> > Subject: [Sca-cooks] Russian sources
> >
> >
> > Another possibility for Russian sources, if you can find it, is a book
> called "Rude and Barbarous Kingdom". It is a collection of reports written
> by 16th c Englishmen who travelled through Russian scouting out markets,
> politics, etc. ... basically spying, but in a broad sense. It won't give
> you
> specific recipes, but it will tell you some information about food
> production of the time and place.
> >
> > Juana Isabella
> >
> > > Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 15:17:18 -0700
> > > From: Deborah Hammons <mistressaldyth at gmail.com>
> > > To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
> > > Subject: [Sca-cooks] Russian sources
> > >
> > > Greetings all!
> > >
> > > I am in the process of finding all things Russian espicially
> > > foodwise (Or
> > > therabouts) for our April Yummier event.  I came across an article
> > > from Lisa Kies on strangelove.net.  It also lists the name of Kieser
> > > in the page look up.  Copyright 2007-8 updated July 4 2008.
> > > Lots of fun stuff
> > > there. Is this a good source?  I am familiar with the chronicle of
> > > Novgarod, and The Domostroi.  Many sources are in Russian.  Ideas?
> > >
> > > Aldyth
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sca-cooks mailing list
> > Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> > http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org
>

From otsisto at socket.net  Sun Jan 20 03:12:59 2013
From: otsisto at socket.net (otsisto)
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2013 05:12:59 -0600
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Fourteenth century Norman fork
In-Reply-To: <50FB0469.8000100@ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <IDEHICPIJOEBPADHEOGPKELEEKAB.otsisto@socket.net>

Like a serving fork?

De


Certainly, cooking forks were known.  I wonder if this smaller fork 
might have been used in the dining hall to hold down pieces of meat 
while they were being carved.  I don't see any comments that this fork 
was used to convey food to the mouth by individual diners.

Alys K.



From JIMCHEVAL at aol.com  Sun Jan 20 12:55:05 2013
From: JIMCHEVAL at aol.com (JIMCHEVAL at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2013 15:55:05 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Medieval root beer; early Frankish food
Message-ID: <10fef.76692e82.3e2db3a9@aol.com>

At some point I want to summarize the book's worth of information I've been 
 gathering on food under the Frankish dynasties; that is, the Merovingians 
and  the Carolingians. This is part of a more general project looking at 
French food  before Taillevent et al:

_http://chezjim.com/food/pre-v/_ (http://chezjim.com/food/pre-v/) 
 
But while waiting to do that, here's a glimpse at a very early Frankish  
meal.

Anyone who's consulted Bonnie Effros' work may have seen her  account of 
meals found by Fremersdorf in two 5th century Frankish graves under  Saint 
Severin in Cologne. Others have reported the same information in slightly  
different form, including Edouard Salins, whose monumental work (1959) on the  
Merovingians gives a more detailed account of the finds (IV:32). One had a 
bird  cooked in honey and a pot of what seemed to be fat for consumption 
(common  enough in the early medieval period), as well as two eggs set on grass 
in a  bowl; the other contained millet gruel flavored with honey, meat which 
had been  cooked in fat flavored with sage and mustard (probably black 
mustard), and two  drinks. One was a glass of wine (per the residue); the other 
is sometimes  described as a kind of mead, but in fact seems to have been... 
birch beer. That  is, the residue of pollen shows that it was a fermented 
drink using birch  sap.

In fact, there is nothing very surprising about this; various drinks  are 
still made with birch sap today:
_http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birch_sap_ 
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birch_sap) 

Except  that... there is no mention of this in any written records. So this 
may be the  one speck of proof that early Franks drank what, in America at 
least, became  root beer.

So, want to make a very early medieval meal? Roast a bird  (preferably a 
tough one) in honey, serve it with millet gruel, also flavored  with honey, 
cook either pork or beef (probably) in fat flavored with sage and  mustard 
seed and... make up a batch of homemade root beer. (You probably want to  skip 
the bowl of fat unless you're REALLY feeling hardcore; the wine was  
probably a southern product and imported north, for what that's worth.)
 
As you can see, we're a long way from trenchers and verjuice here. But  
that's a whole other story.
 
Jim  Chevallier
www.chezjim.com

Newly translated from Pierre Jean-Baptiste  Le Grand d'Aussy:
Eggs, Cheese and Butter in Old Regime  France

From StefanliRous at austin.rr.com  Mon Jan 21 00:34:28 2013
From: StefanliRous at austin.rr.com (Stefan li Rous)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2013 02:34:28 -0600
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Swan recipes
Message-ID: <C2801925-6B52-4914-B72C-53A7C8590AD0@austin.rr.com>

Jim  Chevallier asked:
<<< Hmmm..... What kind of person might have a recipe for swan? Wherever would  
one find such a person? >>>

Hmmm. Did you think to look in the Florilegium?
The easiest way is to use the search engine on the site. Although, for some unknown reason it doesn't seem to work anymore simply clicking on the link, but opening the search engine in a new window does work. This finds a number of matches, including in this file:
exotic-meats-msg (108K) 5/ 6/12 Period and SCA exotic meats. Swans, ostrich,
crawfish, dormice, cat.
http://www.florilegium.org/files/FOOD-MEATS/exotic-meats-msg.html

A quick search in this file finds:
"Harleian 4016 (c. 1450) has 2 recipes for swan. One is simply a whole swan
roasted, the other is a dish of entrails. There is also an allusion to
pudding of swan's neck in the feast menus.
 
Cindy/Sincgiefu"

and
"At coronet in 1996, when Ynys Fawr hosted the event, we served swan to the
high table. We just roasted it. I wasn't in the kitchen for that evening,
so I don't know much about how they prepared it other than what the
finished product was like. IIRC the meat had a silvery sort of sheen and
was not very tasty. Besides, the paperwork involved in getting permission
to kill a couple was long and tiresome, despite the fact that we have them
in plague proportions here in the South of Tasmania.
It was a good experiment, but not one that we would care to repeat in a
hurry. IMO Swans are certainly not worth the effort involved in the legal
work. Stick with other game birds instead.
 
- -Sianan"

Stefan
--------
THLord Stefan li Rous    Barony of Bryn Gwlad    Kingdom of Ansteorra
   Mark S. Harris           Austin, Texas          StefanliRous at austin.rr.com
http://www.linkedin.com/in/marksharris
**** See Stefan's Florilegium files at:  http://www.florilegium.org ****







From JIMCHEVAL at aol.com  Mon Jan 21 10:27:06 2013
From: JIMCHEVAL at aol.com (JIMCHEVAL at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2013 13:27:06 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Swan recipes
Message-ID: <34b3f.506a4082.3e2ee279@aol.com>

I certainly would have looked in the Florilegium had I seriously been  
looking. It is immensely valuable and was very useful to me long before I (just  
recently) joined this list.
 
Ironically enough, we are just now having a discussion of irony on-line on  
another list. Since two people now have interpreted my *boutade* as a call 
for a  recipe, let me rather ponderously explain that I was in fact assuming 
MANY  people here know recipes for swan, and so this would be the first 
place to look  for suspects in this rather strange series of theft/murders.
 
I was, if you will, tweaking this highly specialized group (I tweak often,  
tweet never).
.
I shall of course be more cautious about doing so in the  future.
 
Jim  Chevallier
www.chezjim.com

Newly translated from Pierre Jean-Baptiste  Le Grand d'Aussy:
Eggs, Cheese and Butter in Old Regime France  

 
In a message dated 1/21/2013 12:34:34 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,  
StefanliRous at austin.rr.com writes:

Jim  Chevallier asked:
<<< Hmmm..... What kind of  person might have a recipe for swan? Wherever 
would  
one find such a  person? >>>

Hmmm. Did you think to look in the  Florilegium?


From osermart at msu.edu  Mon Jan 21 12:40:22 2013
From: osermart at msu.edu (Martha Sieting)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2013 15:40:22 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Sca-cooks Digest, Vol 81, Issue 27
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1358798838.11283.sca-cooks-ansteorra.org@lists.ansteorra.org>
References: <mailman.1.1358798838.11283.sca-cooks-ansteorra.org@lists.ansteorra.org>
Message-ID: <20130121154022.37547ahhpo9nh9yu@mail.msu.edu>

> So, want to make a very early medieval meal? Roast a bird? (preferably a
> tough one) in honey, serve it with millet gruel, also flavored? with honey,
> cook either pork or beef (probably) in fat flavored with sage and? mustard
> seed and... make up a batch of homemade root beer. (You probably want 
> to? skip
> the bowl of fat unless you're REALLY feeling hardcore; the wine was
> probably a southern product and imported north, for what that's worth.)

I'd bet (without any documentation to back myself up) that the bowl of fat is possibly/probably drippings from the roast meats to schmear on bread along with the meal.? James Herriot (yeah, I?know, not a cook) described a similar experience in one of his books where he described a sea voyage accompanying a flock of sheep from England to Russia - big pans of dripping served with the other dishes and smeared on (I think) rye bread.

Helena the Speculative

From cmupythia at cmu.edu  Mon Jan 21 12:42:54 2013
From: cmupythia at cmu.edu (Gretchen R Beck)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2013 20:42:54 +0000
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Sca-cooks Digest, Vol 81, Issue 27
In-Reply-To: <20130121154022.37547ahhpo9nh9yu@mail.msu.edu>
References: <mailman.1.1358798838.11283.sca-cooks-ansteorra.org@lists.ansteorra.org>,
	<20130121154022.37547ahhpo9nh9yu@mail.msu.edu>
Message-ID: <56DDB644A1AF6E4CB5CF6CB8B50FCDB40174F06F@PGH-MSGMB-03.andrew.ad.cmu.edu>

On the modern end, the Cooking channel had a place in Cleveland that serves warm bread with a selection of spreads -- one of which is just plain schmaltz.

toodles, margaret
________________________________________
From: sca-cooks-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org [sca-cooks-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org] on behalf of Martha Sieting [osermart at msu.edu]
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2013 3:40 PM
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Sca-cooks Digest, Vol 81, Issue 27

> So, want to make a very early medieval meal? Roast a bird  (preferably a
> tough one) in honey, serve it with millet gruel, also flavored  with honey,
> cook either pork or beef (probably) in fat flavored with sage and  mustard
> seed and... make up a batch of homemade root beer. (You probably want
> to  skip
> the bowl of fat unless you're REALLY feeling hardcore; the wine was
> probably a southern product and imported north, for what that's worth.)

I'd bet (without any documentation to back myself up) that the bowl of fat is possibly/probably drippings from the roast meats to schmear on bread along with the meal.  James Herriot (yeah, I know, not a cook) described a similar experience in one of his books where he described a sea voyage accompanying a flock of sheep from England to Russia - big pans of dripping served with the other dishes and smeared on (I think) rye bread.

Helena the Speculative
_______________________________________________
Sca-cooks mailing list
Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org

From alysk at ix.netcom.com  Mon Jan 21 12:46:38 2013
From: alysk at ix.netcom.com (Elise Fleming)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2013 15:46:38 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Swan recipes
Message-ID: <50FDA92E.9070906@ix.netcom.com>

Not recipes per se, but there was an interesting article in Petits 
Propos Culinaires (PPC), Issue 24, November 1986, by Joop Witteveen, 
entitled "On Swans, Cranes and Herons: Part 1. Swans".

Witteveen examines the sources listing swans as food as to preparation 
and service for England, the Netherlands, Italy, France, and Germany 
during the Middle Ages.  There are some 45+ footnotes that should give 
someone a bit of reading!

Back issues of PPC are available from 
http://acanthus-books.stores.yahoo.net/ .

Alys K.
-- 
Elise Fleming
alysk at ix.netcom.com
alyskatharine at gmail.com
http://damealys.medievalcookery.com/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8311418 at N08/sets/

From johnnae at mac.com  Mon Jan 21 12:56:38 2013
From: johnnae at mac.com (Johnna Holloway)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2013 15:56:38 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Swan recipes
In-Reply-To: <50FDA92E.9070906@ix.netcom.com>
References: <50FDA92E.9070906@ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <70377FB0-4B75-4DB4-99A3-33FF7A81244E@mac.com>

For the Concordance of English Recipes Thirteenth Through Fifteenth Centuries
we identified and listed 15 recipes. Constance Hieatt then located another 5 for her volumes
A Gathering of Medieval English Recipes and Cocatrice and Lampray Hay.
There's a considerable number considering the bird received royal status in as early as
the 12th century, making it out of bounds for most people.
 Or maybe all noble collections needed at least one swan recipe. Or maybe
they kept trying to make it taste better.

Johnnae

On Jan 21, 2013, at 3:46 PM, Elise Fleming wrote:

> Not recipes per se, but there was an interesting article in Petits Propos Culinaires (PPC), Issue 24, November 1986, by Joop Witteveen, entitled "On Swans, Cranes and Herons: Part 1. Swans".
> 
> Witteveen examines the sources listing swans as food as to preparation and service for England, the Netherlands, Italy, France, and Germany during the Middle Ages.  There are some 45+ footnotes that should give someone a bit of reading!
> 
> Back issues of PPC are available from http://acanthus-books.stores.yahoo.net/ .
> 
> Alys K.

From JIMCHEVAL at aol.com  Mon Jan 21 12:49:40 2013
From: JIMCHEVAL at aol.com (JIMCHEVAL at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2013 15:49:40 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Sca-cooks Digest, Vol 81, Issue 27
Message-ID: <39629.f0f26a7.3e2f03e4@aol.com>

Not impossible, but fat was eaten on its own (depending on how you read the 
 Latin, it might have been served to Charlemagne). And the Franks, like all 
 Germans, had butter (which some Germans used in their hair as well). 
 
Jim  Chevallier
www.chezjim.com

Newly translated from Pierre Jean-Baptiste  Le Grand d'Aussy:
Eggs, Cheese and Butter in Old Regime France  

 
In a message dated 1/21/2013 12:40:27 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,  
osermart at msu.edu writes:

I'd bet  (without any documentation to back myself up) that the bowl of fat 
is  possibly/probably drippings from the roast meats to schmear on bread 
along  with the meal.  James Herriot (yeah, I know, not a cook) described a  
similar experience in one of his books where he described a sea voyage  
accompanying a flock of sheep from England to Russia - big pans of dripping  
served with the other dishes and smeared on (I think) rye  bread.


From ranvaig at columbus.rr.com  Mon Jan 21 16:22:40 2013
From: ranvaig at columbus.rr.com (Sharon Palmer)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2013 19:22:40 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Swan recipes
In-Reply-To: <70377FB0-4B75-4DB4-99A3-33FF7A81244E@mac.com>
References: <50FDA92E.9070906@ix.netcom.com>
	<70377FB0-4B75-4DB4-99A3-33FF7A81244E@mac.com>
Message-ID: <p0601025acd238ba8d3b7@[10.0.1.112]>

Rumpolt Swan Recipes:

1. Dry roasted warm.

2. Cold in a pie with its accompaniments/ the feathers arranged over the pie.

3. Roasted and let become cold.

4. On the other hand the swan roasted. Prepare it/ and pluck it 
except for the wings/ tail and neck/ pull the skin off of it/ stuff 
it/ and let it become dry in an oven/ Take the swan/ and stick it on 
a spit/ take an instrument/ that is made nicely smooth from iron/ 
stick it through both bones/ and look/ that the instrument and the 
soles are nicely wide/ that also three or four holes are made in it. 
And when the swan is roasted/ so you can in place on a clean round 
board/ that is nicely cleanly turned (on a lathe)/ Nail it with clean 
white nails/ and let it stay like this/ until it becomes cold/ when 
it is cold/ then it becomes stiff and hard/ that makes the 
instrument/ Dress it on the other hand the head/ neck/ wings/ and 
tail/ and when it is prepares/ then set it on a dish or silver/ pour 
a jellied broth/ that is boiled from clean feet/ over it/ and that 
you take nothing to it/ but cinnamon and saffron/ enough/ that 
strongly tastes/ and make it well sweet/ that no other material comes 
to it/ than vinegar and wine.  Then when you have clarified it/ so it 
becomes good and well tasting.  Pour then in the dish/ that the swan 
stands in/ let it become nicely cold/ and congeal/ so it becomes a 
beautiful aspic/ give the roasted swan a beautiful adornment/ it is 
lovely and beautiful for a show-food (subtlety).  You may gild or 
silver it/ or adorn as you will.

(The swan is roasted and served standing on the bed of aspic, 
presumably looking as if it was alive.  Except for the roasted body).

Ranvaig

From StefanliRous at austin.rr.com  Mon Jan 21 16:34:14 2013
From: StefanliRous at austin.rr.com (Stefan li Rous)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2013 18:34:14 -0600
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Swan recipes
Message-ID: <A312EF5F-C3FF-4FBA-9382-DCB73B8CF124@austin.rr.com>

Jim  Chevallier replied to me with:
<<< I certainly would have looked in the Florilegium had I seriously been  
looking. It is immensely valuable and was very useful to me long before I (just  
recently) joined this list.

Ironically enough, we are just now having a discussion of irony on-line on  
another list. Since two people now have interpreted my *boutade* as a call 
for a  recipe, let me rather ponderously explain that I was in fact assuming 
MANY  people here know recipes for swan, and so this would be the first 
place to look  for suspects in this rather strange series of theft/murders. >>>

My apologies, Jim.

I replied to your first message before I had seen your later message. Since I get the list in digest form, I often look at a single digest and reply immediately, rather than reading ahead and then trying to remember to reply to a past message. 

Yes, my first thought was that you might be kidding, but we have had and probably still do have, folks of all experience levels on this list. We have folks that have been professional cooks, others who are published cookbook authors and researchers and people who have cooked multiple, often large, complex feasts. On the other hand, we have folks that are brand new to medieval cooking or even new to cooking at all, as I was when I joined this list some 15? years ago.

So, along with perhaps trying to be overly helpful when I think I can, I was loathe to assume you, and everyone else on this list, was aware of the peacock recipes that might be available.  In addition, the peacock-msg file, which I didn't mention, has a lot of interesting stories of presenting (and eating peacocks as you highlight) in the SCA and period. Even in period it appears to be not uncommon to cover a better tasting bird with a peacock's skin and feathers for decoration. :-)

And thank you for the additional swan recipe. That was one I didn't have and I will add it to the exotic-measts-msg file in its next update. And thank you for the compliment on the Florilegium. It is nice to know that it is still useful.

Stefan

--------
THLord Stefan li Rous    Barony of Bryn Gwlad    Kingdom of Ansteorra
   Mark S. Harris           Austin, Texas          StefanliRous at austin.rr.com
http://www.linkedin.com/in/marksharris
**** See Stefan's Florilegium files at:  http://www.florilegium.org ****







From JIMCHEVAL at aol.com  Mon Jan 21 17:11:44 2013
From: JIMCHEVAL at aol.com (JIMCHEVAL at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2013 20:11:44 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Swan recipes
Message-ID: <4094e.42823f23.3e2f4150@aol.com>

While you're at it, perhaps you'd like to include two from Anthimus' 6th  
century De Observatione Ciborum (my translation).

The recipe for peacock  is listed under "domestic birds" (and so the bird 
typically was, even if it  seems like a game bird to us). Anthimus was 
writing a dietetic, not a recipe  book, so if he left out anything like putting 
the feathers back on, it may be  because that didn't affect the bird's 
nutritional impact. Still his instructions  seem to assume a bird being cooked much 
like any other (even though the Romans  did sometimes dress it in its 
feathers):

"Of peacocks, if there are any,  the best are the oldest, killed five to 
six days before, and well caprientur  those which have such meat, and put them 
in wine or boil each in its own juices,  so that for those who like it put 
a moderate amount of honey and pepper in the  juices, after they have been 
cooked. Younger or tender peacocks should be killed  a day or two before."

"Caprientur" might mean marinate or hang, but since  scholars better than I 
have yet to resolve the issue, I left it as is. Either  way this works 
nicely enough with turkey. Probably would work for swan, too,  since later 
medieval texts often pair them (though one version of the Viandier  says swan 
would be the second course, but peacock the last).

Under "wild  birds", one finds this for partridge:

"Partridges are good, especially  their breasts. Boiled but not roasted. 
Moreover, they are suitable for those who  suffer from fluxes of the stomach 
or dysentery, and they are good boiled in pure  water without any seasoning. 
And if possible, put neither salt nor oil on them,  only a bundle of 
coriander [that is, for us, cilantro], and cook them with this.  Eat only the 
breast, if possible without salt; otherwise dip it in  salt."

No swans, but then no geese either. In general he says, "birds  well cooked 
in their juices are suitable and, if steamed as soon as they are  killed, 
yet well cooked, and also carefully roasted some distance from the  hearth, 
fit." (Note that this breaks down into three methods: in their juices,  
steamed - a Roman but not late medieval method - or roasted at a distance from  
the fire.)

I just saw today that one Gallo-Roman dig found remnants of an  owl that 
apparently had been eaten; never seen a recipe for THAT.

Jim  Chevallier
www.chezjim.com

Newly translated from Pierre Jean-Baptiste  Le Grand d'Aussy:
Eggs, Cheese and Butter in Old Regime France 

In a  message dated 1/21/2013 4:34:20 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,  
StefanliRous at austin.rr.com writes:

And thank you for the additional swan  recipe. That was one I didn't have 
and I will add it to the exotic-measts-msg  file in its next update. 
 

From t.d.decker at att.net  Mon Jan 21 18:08:50 2013
From: t.d.decker at att.net (Terry Decker)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2013 20:08:50 -0600
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Swan recipes
In-Reply-To: <34b3f.506a4082.3e2ee279@aol.com>
References: <34b3f.506a4082.3e2ee279@aol.com>
Message-ID: <0BB8942D55894C12BDB7CB8ACE2DF20E@TerryPC>

Recipes are always in order on this list.

I know nothing.  I wasn't there.  Jim knows too much about this.  Besides, 
swan doesn't taste as good as it sounds.

Bear


> Ironically enough, we are just now having a discussion of irony on-line on
> another list. Since two people now have interpreted my *boutade* as a call
> for a  recipe, let me rather ponderously explain that I was in fact 
> assuming
> MANY  people here know recipes for swan, and so this would be the first
> place to look  for suspects in this rather strange series of 
> theft/murders.
>
> Jim  Chevallier


From ranvaig at columbus.rr.com  Mon Jan 21 22:00:35 2013
From: ranvaig at columbus.rr.com (Sharon Palmer)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2013 01:00:35 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Swan recipes
In-Reply-To: <p0601025acd238ba8d3b7@[10.0.1.112]>
References: <50FDA92E.9070906@ix.netcom.com>
	<70377FB0-4B75-4DB4-99A3-33FF7A81244E@mac.com>
	<p0601025acd238ba8d3b7@[10.0.1.112]>
Message-ID: <p0601025fcd23db1b7324@[10.0.1.112]>

>2. Cold in a pie with its accompaniments/ the feathers arranged over the pie.

Rumpolt tells you to have the feathers showing, sometimes the wings/ 
tail/ or head, so you can see the kind of pie it is.  And no one ever 
stuck the swan wing on chicken pie.. of course not!

Ranvaig

From alexbclark at pennswoods.net  Tue Jan 22 17:30:25 2013
From: alexbclark at pennswoods.net (Alexander Clark)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2013 20:30:25 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Swan recipes
Message-ID: <CAKWJ1s3N5JXnxeZ9K9WV5TPW+cf4D_hHJ_7UbMPJy57zNGjjhA@mail.gmail.com>

Not only were swans often included in the cookbooks, they also
appeared on many menus. In the menus that someone thought were worth
preserving, as many as I've seen of them, swans are among the most
frequently appearing items, approximately tied with partridges and
pheasants.

In most sources there is just one place for swans, which is in the
first course. (Other dishes that also tend to be specific to the first
course are viand bruse, boars' heads, great flesh, capons, and pike.)

-- 
Henry/Alex

On Mon, 21 Jan 2013 15:56:38 -0500, Johnna Holloway wrote:
> For the Concordance of English Recipes Thirteenth Through Fifteenth Centuries
> we identified and listed 15 recipes. Constance Hieatt then located another 5 for her volumes
> A Gathering of Medieval English Recipes and Cocatrice and Lampray Hay.
> There's a considerable number considering the bird received royal status in as early as
> the 12th century, making it out of bounds for most people.
> Or maybe all noble collections needed at least one swan recipe. Or maybe
> they kept trying to make it taste better.
>
> Johnnae
>
> On Jan 21, 2013, at 3:46 PM, Elise Fleming wrote:
>
> Not recipes per se, but there was an interesting article in Petits Propos Culinaires (PPC), Issue 24, November 1986, by Joop Witteveen, entitled "On Swans, Cranes and Herons: Part 1. Swans".
>
> Witteveen examines the sources listing swans as food as to preparation and service for England, the Netherlands, Italy, France, and Germany during the Middle Ages.  There are some 45+ footnotes that should give someone a bit of reading!
>
> Back issues of PPC are available from http://acanthus-books.stores.yahoo.net/ .
>
> Alys K.

From JIMCHEVAL at aol.com  Tue Jan 22 17:40:44 2013
From: JIMCHEVAL at aol.com (JIMCHEVAL at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2013 20:40:44 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Swan recipes
Message-ID: <34bb5.38ed32b8.3e30999c@aol.com>

Taillevent recommends the second, which is where it appears in one of the  
fifteenth century recipes following the (very corrupt) published edition of  
his Viandier from that century:

"Banquet Of My Lord Of La Marche  
And  Firstly 
Vinaigrette,  cretonn?e of lard, brewet of cinnamon, venison with clove. 

SECOND  COURSE 
Peacocks,  swans, herons, young rabbits with spiced sauce, partridges with  
sugar."
 
Jim  Chevallier
www.chezjim.com

Newly translated from Pierre Jean-Baptiste  Le Grand d'Aussy:
Eggs, Cheese and Butter in Old Regime France  

 
In a message dated 1/22/2013 5:30:30 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,  
alexbclark at pennswoods.net writes:

In most  sources there is just one place for swans, which is in the
first course.  


From alexbclark at pennswoods.net  Tue Jan 22 20:14:39 2013
From: alexbclark at pennswoods.net (Alexander Clark)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2013 23:14:39 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Swan recipes
Message-ID: <CAKWJ1s0_cUgrXbQCaQ2LNKWwDP-FcP15SJUNmoj4rOv4J0rkEA@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue Jan 22 17:40:44 PST 2013, Jim  Chevallier writes:
> Taillevent recommends the second, . . .
> In a message dated 1/22/2013 5:30:30 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
> alexbclark at pennswoods.net writes:
>
> In most  sources there is just one place for swans, which is in the
> first course.

So is it the French who are stealing and eating Britain's swans? :-)
An international incident!

I assumed that we were still talking about the British swans, so I
didn't specify that these are the English sources. BTW, I also forgot
to mention that the menus that I was studying were medieval, not
renaissance.

-- 
Henry/Alex

From JIMCHEVAL at aol.com  Tue Jan 22 20:47:49 2013
From: JIMCHEVAL at aol.com (JIMCHEVAL at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2013 23:47:49 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Swan recipes
Message-ID: <383f5.2eb1612d.3e30c575@aol.com>

We edge into some nuances here. Taillevent's recipes - including the  
corrupt versions which came out in the fifteenth century - are generally  
considered medieval, though I agree their whole ethos is dangerously close to  
being Renaissance (which is one reason I've been looking at all the food BEFORE  
Taillevent, in search of something that truly was fully medieval food). But 
also  the Plantagenets were a French dynasty and I don't know that the 
differences  between the two cultures were as established as they would become. 
(I don't know  if the London statutes were still written in Anglo-Normand, 
but they certainly  were for a long time.)
 
Jim  Chevallier
www.chezjim.com

Newly translated from Pierre Jean-Baptiste  Le Grand d'Aussy:
Eggs, Cheese and Butter in Old Regime France  

 
In a message dated 1/22/2013 8:14:43 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,  
alexbclark at pennswoods.net writes:

I  assumed that we were still talking about the British swans, so I
didn't  specify that these are the English sources. BTW, I also forgot
to mention  that the menus that I was studying were medieval,  not
renaissance.



From karobert at unm.edu  Wed Jan 23 06:29:31 2013
From: karobert at unm.edu (Kathleen Roberts)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2013 14:29:31 +0000
Subject: [Sca-cooks] The Taste
Message-ID: <AF2F1DA7964D6344A6B72C61AC9AA953050DA418@CH1PRD0711MB432.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>

Well, while all of you were watching NCIS, I watched The Taste and had a great time.



The panel of judges was just a plain old bunch of happy cats, enjoying each other's comments and occasional snarkiness.  Most of the snarky was among themselves and not in front of the contestant.  And let me tell you, some of those food combinations in those dishes were pretty ... aaahhhhh.... inventive, some to the point of being "a crime against food".  (Bourdain)  Nigella was lovely as always.  Ludo was... well, Ludo... intense but amiable.  Brian Malarky was your typical California laid back.



I thought the premise was pretty good, one hour to cook and put out the titled taste (though how some people packed so much food on one little oriental style spoon is beyond me).  I guess the time limit kept the cooks from doing the obvious tasty, crunchy skinned little piggy to sway Bourdain.



If two judges wanted the same cook on their team, they let the cook choose who she/he wanted to join.  This was fun because then the judges had about 20 seconds to persuade the cook to come to their team.  The pain when a cook was lost to another team was evident and amusing in its own right.



I thought the panel was pretty encouraging to the people they did not pick for their teams, even if the food was not that good they had something good to say like "keep trying" or "this just wasn't your day".



It was fast paced and down to earth.  It seemed comfortable in its own skin.

 Even my husband liked it (although he is a big Bourdain fan).



I thoroughly enjoyed it and will happily watch it again.  Even if it is up against Doomsday Preppers.



Cailte



Kathleen Roberts

Admissions Advisor

University of New Mexico

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Being Irish, he had an abiding sense of tragedy, which sustained him through temporary periods of joy."  W.B. Yeats



"The hand that rocks the ladle rules the world."  Nadia G.

From ranvaig at columbus.rr.com  Wed Jan 23 08:11:23 2013
From: ranvaig at columbus.rr.com (Sharon Palmer)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2013 11:11:23 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Swan recipes
In-Reply-To: <CAKWJ1s3N5JXnxeZ9K9WV5TPW+cf4D_hHJ_7UbMPJy57zNGjjhA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKWJ1s3N5JXnxeZ9K9WV5TPW+cf4D_hHJ_7UbMPJy57zNGjjhA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p06010202cd25b3bbaf44@[10.0.1.112]>

>Not only were swans often included in the cookbooks, they also
>appeared on many menus. In the menus that someone thought were worth
>preserving, as many as I've seen of them, swans are among the most
>frequently appearing items, approximately tied with partridges and
>pheasants.
>
>In most sources there is just one place for swans, which is in the
>first course. (Other dishes that also tend to be specific to the first
>course are viand bruse, boars' heads, great flesh, capons, and pike.)
>
>--
>Henry/Alex
>
That may be true of English menus, but in the 30 some Rumpolt menus, 
swans appear twice as roasted swan in the second course among other 
roasted poultry, and once in the first course among other cold pies. 
Compared to 14 references to Partridge, 9 to partridge, 14 to grouse, 
and 10 references to New World Turkey.

The progression of dishes is different too.
Ranvaig

From JIMCHEVAL at aol.com  Wed Jan 23 10:02:33 2013
From: JIMCHEVAL at aol.com (JIMCHEVAL at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2013 13:02:33 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Swan recipes
Message-ID: <2d72a.7651abf2.3e317fb8@aol.com>

In fact it's worth noting that the whole idea of a fixed set of courses was 
 still very much in flux in this time. The Menagier de Paris includes over 
20  menus and most follow no obvious shared sequence. It's mainly the 
wedding menus  - the grandest - which follow something like the soup, etc. courses 
that became  the Western standard.
 
The history of courses (which I believe Flandrin has done to some degree)  
is interesting in itself. The Romans (at least at the highest levels) had a  
fairly (if loosely) organized sequence (which they shorthanded as "from 
eggs to  apples"). There are still traces of this in the early Merovingian 
period, along  with clear indications then and in Charlemagne's time that SOME 
idea of services  existed. But exactly what we don't know, except that by the 
time records become  more extensive the sequence seems to have become 
anarchic.

Bear in mind  too that in France at the start of the fourteenth century, in 
theory, at least,  meals were supposed to be limited to two courses.

Some credit Ziryab, a  fascinating figure in cultural history, with 
inventing the sequence that became  standard in Western cuisine. He lived in Spain 
about 100 years after Charlemagne  (and is also credited with establishing 
the bases for flamenco and for seasons  in fashion); if his ideas made it to 
fourteenth century France, I would guess it  was via the East.

But we should be cautious about saying any food was  universally served in 
any course at this time; there still seems to have been a  lot of room for 
leeway.
 
Jim  Chevallier
www.chezjim.com

Newly translated from Pierre Jean-Baptiste  Le Grand d'Aussy:
Eggs, Cheese and Butter in Old Regime France  

 
In a message dated 1/23/2013 8:11:30 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,  
ranvaig at columbus.rr.com writes:

The  progression of dishes is different  too.



From JIMCHEVAL at aol.com  Wed Jan 23 10:07:35 2013
From: JIMCHEVAL at aol.com (JIMCHEVAL at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2013 13:07:35 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] The Taste
Message-ID: <2da14.76f50b4c.3e3180e5@aol.com>

I did as well. I was a little disappointed, partially in that there was  
very little of the enthusiastically supportive remarks one sees on "The Voice" 
 (its obvious model) and remarkably few really successful contestants.

The  mayonnaise did not, as the French say, "take" for me. I still enjoy 
Gordon  Ramsay's cooking shows more. But I'll probably give it a few more  
shots.

Meanwhile, we should do a write-in campaign to get them to do an  
all-medieval menu. :)
 
Jim  Chevallier
www.chezjim.com

Newly translated from Pierre Jean-Baptiste  Le Grand d'Aussy:
Eggs, Cheese and Butter in Old Regime France  

 
In a message dated 1/23/2013 6:29:44 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,  
karobert at unm.edu writes:

Well,  while all of you were watching NCIS, I watched The Taste and had a 
great  time.






From karobert at unm.edu  Wed Jan 23 10:30:44 2013
From: karobert at unm.edu (Kathleen Roberts)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2013 18:30:44 +0000
Subject: [Sca-cooks] The Taste
In-Reply-To: <2da14.76f50b4c.3e3180e5@aol.com>
References: <2da14.76f50b4c.3e3180e5@aol.com>
Message-ID: <AF2F1DA7964D6344A6B72C61AC9AA953050DA4E7@CH1PRD0711MB432.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>

I think some of the blandness is due to missing all the histrionics that go into the prep, cooking and plating.  That's where some of the best fun comes in on the other shows (esp involving canned haggis). 

I think the pro chefs are trying too hard to impress the judges, and over reaching.  They have more to prove than the home chefs.

Cailte

Kathleen Roberts

Admissions Advisor

University of New Mexico

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Being Irish, he had an abiding sense of tragedy, which sustained him through temporary periods of joy."  W.B. Yeats



"The hand that rocks the ladle rules the world."  Nadia G.

________________________________________
From: sca-cooks-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org [sca-cooks-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org] on behalf of JIMCHEVAL at aol.com [JIMCHEVAL at aol.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2013 11:07 AM
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] The Taste

I did as well. I was a little disappointed, partially in that there was
very little of the enthusiastically supportive remarks one sees on "The Voice"
 (its obvious model) and remarkably few really successful contestants.

The  mayonnaise did not, as the French say, "take" for me. I still enjoy
Gordon  Ramsay's cooking shows more. But I'll probably give it a few more
shots.

Meanwhile, we should do a write-in campaign to get them to do an
all-medieval menu. :)

Jim  Chevallier
www.chezjim.com

Newly translated from Pierre Jean-Baptiste  Le Grand d'Aussy:
Eggs, Cheese and Butter in Old Regime France


In a message dated 1/23/2013 6:29:44 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
karobert at unm.edu writes:

Well,  while all of you were watching NCIS, I watched The Taste and had a
great  time.





_______________________________________________
Sca-cooks mailing list
Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org

From alysk at ix.netcom.com  Thu Jan 24 07:31:55 2013
From: alysk at ix.netcom.com (Elise Fleming)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2013 10:31:55 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Is This a Type of Quince?
Message-ID: <510153EB.30200@ix.netcom.com>

Greetings!  Can anyone positively identify the type of fruit tree this 
is?  A resident in my retirement community says that it's a quince, but 
I'm not sure.  It grows in the scrub area at the edge of the community. 
  I've looked online, but it appears to be rounder, more globular, than 
most quince varieties.  Here is the link to my Flickr site where this is 
the first of three photos of "the tree":

http://www.flickr.com/photos/8311418 at N08/8160947226/in/set-72157631799881583/

Sure hope someone knows!

Alys K.
-- 
Elise Fleming
alysk at ix.netcom.com
alyskatharine at gmail.com
http://damealys.medievalcookery.com/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8311418 at N08/sets/

From rcarrollmann at gmail.com  Thu Jan 24 07:44:08 2013
From: rcarrollmann at gmail.com (Robin Carroll-Mann)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2013 10:44:08 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Is This a Type of Quince?
In-Reply-To: <510153EB.30200@ix.netcom.com>
References: <510153EB.30200@ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <CA+tVTM+XupvCN-yyxTSwWcQOuqGetu=a=c4TGqDXhQxNORt5jQ@mail.gmail.com>

I have no clue -- but I think I can point you at someone who does.

In this article<http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/03/garden/in-praise-of-the-misunderstood-quince-tree.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0>from
the New York Times on quince varieties, they cite Joseph Postman, a
USDA scientist who specializes in quinces.  His contact information is
here<http://www.ars.usda.gov/pandp/people/people.htm?personid=4490>.
I'd shoot him an email with a link to your pictures.

Brighid ni Chiarain

From johnnae at mac.com  Thu Jan 24 08:09:55 2013
From: johnnae at mac.com (Johnna Holloway)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2013 11:09:55 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Is This a Type of Quince?
In-Reply-To: <510153EB.30200@ix.netcom.com>
References: <510153EB.30200@ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <5443FEE7-9D2F-4B19-AC0F-ABFCDE2CBB46@mac.com>

I think it's an Asian Pear.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrus_pyrifolia

Johnnae

On Jan 24, 2013, at 10:31 AM, Elise Fleming wrote:

> Greetings!  Can anyone positively identify the type of fruit tree this is?  A resident in my retirement community says that it's a quince, but I'm not sure.  It grows in the scrub area at the edge of the community.  I've looked online, but it appears to be rounder, more globular, than most quince varieties.  Here is the link to my Flickr site where this is the first of three photos of "the tree":
> 
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/8311418 at N08/8160947226/in/set-72157631799881583/
> 
> Sure hope someone knows!
> 
> Alys K.
> -- 

From crimlaw at jeffnet.org  Thu Jan 24 08:20:14 2013
From: crimlaw at jeffnet.org (Mark Hendershott)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2013 08:20:14 -0800
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Is This a Type of Quince?
In-Reply-To: <510153EB.30200@ix.netcom.com>
References: <510153EB.30200@ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <51015F3E.5070701@jeffnet.org>

I agree the fruit looks a lot like an asian pear.  Neither quince nor 
asian pear have such long stems.  My my guess would be either an 
uncommon variety of asian pear or a relative.

Simon Sinneghe

On 1/24/2013 7:31 AM, Elise Fleming wrote:
> Greetings!  Can anyone positively identify the type of fruit tree this 
> is?  A resident in my retirement community says that it's a quince, 
> but I'm not sure.  It grows in the scrub area at the edge of the 
> community.  I've looked online, but it appears to be rounder, more 
> globular, than most quince varieties.  Here is the link to my Flickr 
> site where this is the first of three photos of "the tree":
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/8311418 at N08/8160947226/in/set-72157631799881583/ 
>
>
> Sure hope someone knows!
>
> Alys K.


From johnnae at mac.com  Thu Jan 24 08:30:27 2013
From: johnnae at mac.com (Johnna Holloway)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2013 11:30:27 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Is This a Type of Quince?
In-Reply-To: <5443FEE7-9D2F-4B19-AC0F-ABFCDE2CBB46@mac.com>
References: <510153EB.30200@ix.netcom.com>
	<5443FEE7-9D2F-4B19-AC0F-ABFCDE2CBB46@mac.com>
Message-ID: <968ADE43-EDF9-4226-AB36-0549BCFA4ADF@mac.com>

There are different varieties and they will grow in Ohio.

http://www.weymouthfarms.com/
(Although not in the drought of last summer.)

http://www.weymouthfarms.com/home/asian-pear-varieties-1

Johnnae

On Jan 24, 2013, at 11:09 AM, Johnna Holloway wrote:

> I think it's an Asian Pear.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrus_pyrifolia
> 
> Johnnae
> 
> On Jan 24, 2013, at 10:31 AM, Elise Fleming wrote:
> 
>> Greetings!  Can anyone positively identify the type of fruit tree this is?  A resident in my retirement community says that it's a quince, but I'm not sure.  It grows in the scrub area at the edge of the community.  I've looked online, but it appears to be rounder, more globular, than most quince varieties.  Here is the link to my Flickr site where this is the first of three photos of "the tree":
>> 
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/8311418 at N08/8160947226/in/set-72157631799881583/
>> 
>> Sure hope someone knows!
>> 
>> Alys K.

From mistressaldyth at gmail.com  Thu Jan 24 09:16:02 2013
From: mistressaldyth at gmail.com (Deborah Hammons)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2013 10:16:02 -0700
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Pelmeni
Message-ID: <CAPPosh60eTZO23C+e+ibrfcuQ7OX5msRTV6T=xLuyuW00GOGzA@mail.gmail.com>

Still working on my Russian collegium.   I have come across those lovely
obtuse references to Pelmeni being available "in period" .  Is there
another word discription for them I should be looking for?

Aldyth

From mistressaldyth at gmail.com  Thu Jan 24 09:20:59 2013
From: mistressaldyth at gmail.com (Deborah Hammons)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2013 10:20:59 -0700
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Kissel
Message-ID: <CAPPosh6UvgGMjvad_fbzf=CuEbddj3gPnK+fGNfzZt24B4s5tQ@mail.gmail.com>

And, there are again those nebulous 10th century  references to the Primary
Chronicle where this was made.  What kind of "thickener" would have been in
use then?  "Remnants of grain"  isn't helpful.

Aldyth

From t.d.decker at att.net  Thu Jan 24 11:18:01 2013
From: t.d.decker at att.net (Terry Decker)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2013 13:18:01 -0600
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Pelmeni
In-Reply-To: <CAPPosh60eTZO23C+e+ibrfcuQ7OX5msRTV6T=xLuyuW00GOGzA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPPosh60eTZO23C+e+ibrfcuQ7OX5msRTV6T=xLuyuW00GOGzA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2708FD55A3564A7F898693FC11BFD0BF@TerryPC>

Try "pel'n'an'" (pel = ear   n'an=bread).  The Oxford Companion to Food 
gives this as a Finnic form derived from the Persian that has been changed 
by usage to pel'meni in the modern period.

Since they are a basic dumpling and we have recipes from neighboring 
cultures within period, it is accepted by most food historians that pelmeni 
are being produced "within period."  The big argument is whether they were 
introduced from China by the invading Mongols or introduced from the Middle 
East.

Bear

> Still working on my Russian collegium.   I have come across those lovely
> obtuse references to Pelmeni being available "in period" .  Is there
> another word discription for them I should be looking for?
>
> Aldyth


From t.d.decker at att.net  Thu Jan 24 11:48:35 2013
From: t.d.decker at att.net (Terry Decker)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2013 13:48:35 -0600
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Kissel
In-Reply-To: <CAPPosh6UvgGMjvad_fbzf=CuEbddj3gPnK+fGNfzZt24B4s5tQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPPosh6UvgGMjvad_fbzf=CuEbddj3gPnK+fGNfzZt24B4s5tQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <74767F068F80457ABDA000654847FE59@TerryPC>

Remnants of grain is very helpful.  The thickener is obviously starch from 
cereal.  The remnants are very likely the "middlings" from milling flour, 
most probably wheat or spelt.  You might also want to look for archaic 
definitions for the translation of "remnants."  It is possible that they are 
actually referring to flour or even wheat starch.

The Primary Chronicle (or The Tale of Bygone Years) is actually early 12th 
Century (about 1113) and covers Kievan history from about 850 to 1110. 
Since there isn't (to my knowledge) an existing copy of the original you may 
be looking at a modification from the 14th or 15th Century.

Bear


> And, there are again those nebulous 10th century  references to the 
> Primary
> Chronicle where this was made.  What kind of "thickener" would have been 
> in
> use then?  "Remnants of grain"  isn't helpful.
>
> Aldyth


From mistressaldyth at gmail.com  Thu Jan 24 14:05:52 2013
From: mistressaldyth at gmail.com (Deborah Hammons)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2013 15:05:52 -0700
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Kissel
In-Reply-To: <74767F068F80457ABDA000654847FE59@TerryPC>
References: <CAPPosh6UvgGMjvad_fbzf=CuEbddj3gPnK+fGNfzZt24B4s5tQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<74767F068F80457ABDA000654847FE59@TerryPC>
Message-ID: <CAPPosh6a8og1O3MmsJeUWKkVV+bSup20CLzBK8y12f+-YvBqAQ@mail.gmail.com>

Yay Bear!!.  I have been looking into my archeological grain findings too.
Seems they refer to rye more times than not.  One of the more recent finds
says potato....

Aldyth

On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 12:48 PM, Terry Decker <t.d.decker at att.net> wrote:

> Remnants of grain is very helpful.  The thickener is obviously starch from
> cereal.  The remnants are very likely the "middlings" from milling flour,
> most probably wheat or spelt.  You might also want to look for archaic
> definitions for the translation of "remnants."  It is possible that they
> are actually referring to flour or even wheat starch.
>
> The Primary Chronicle (or The Tale of Bygone Years) is actually early 12th
> Century (about 1113) and covers Kievan history from about 850 to 1110.
> Since there isn't (to my knowledge) an existing copy of the original you
> may be looking at a modification from the 14th or 15th Century.
>
> Bear
>
>
>
>  And, there are again those nebulous 10th century  references to the
>> Primary
>> Chronicle where this was made.  What kind of "thickener" would have been
>> in
>> use then?  "Remnants of grain"  isn't helpful.
>>
>> Aldyth
>>
>
> ______________________________**_________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/**listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-**ansteorra.org<http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org>
>

From t.d.decker at att.net  Thu Jan 24 17:39:28 2013
From: t.d.decker at att.net (Terry Decker)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2013 19:39:28 -0600
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Kissel
In-Reply-To: <CAPPosh6a8og1O3MmsJeUWKkVV+bSup20CLzBK8y12f+-YvBqAQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPPosh6UvgGMjvad_fbzf=CuEbddj3gPnK+fGNfzZt24B4s5tQ@mail.gmail.com><74767F068F80457ABDA000654847FE59@TerryPC>
	<CAPPosh6a8og1O3MmsJeUWKkVV+bSup20CLzBK8y12f+-YvBqAQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <15CD302BC0FD449EB4363710BC855668@TerryPC>

Rye was the common grain of northern Europe.  It was well suited for the 
climate and the short growing period.  Less common, but also grown in the 
Ukraine (remember the source is from Kiev) was winter wheat, which was 
brought to the US by Russian Mennonites in the 19th Century.  The potato is 
probably out of period.

Bear


> Yay Bear!!.  I have been looking into my archeological grain findings too.
> Seems they refer to rye more times than not.  One of the more recent finds
> says potato....
>
> Aldyth
>
> On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 12:48 PM, Terry Decker <t.d.decker at att.net> wrote:
>
>> Remnants of grain is very helpful.  The thickener is obviously starch 
>> from
>> cereal.  The remnants are very likely the "middlings" from milling flour,
>> most probably wheat or spelt.  You might also want to look for archaic
>> definitions for the translation of "remnants."  It is possible that they
>> are actually referring to flour or even wheat starch.
>>
>> The Primary Chronicle (or The Tale of Bygone Years) is actually early 
>> 12th
>> Century (about 1113) and covers Kievan history from about 850 to 1110.
>> Since there isn't (to my knowledge) an existing copy of the original you
>> may be looking at a modification from the 14th or 15th Century.
>>
>> Bear
>>
>>
>>
>>  And, there are again those nebulous 10th century  references to the
>>> Primary
>>> Chronicle where this was made.  What kind of "thickener" would have been
>>> in
>>> use then?  "Remnants of grain"  isn't helpful.
>>>
>>> Aldyth


From lilinah at earthlink.net  Thu Jan 24 18:36:31 2013
From: lilinah at earthlink.net (lilinah at earthlink.net)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2013 18:36:31 -0800 (GMT-08:00)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Is This a Type of Quince?
Message-ID: <2537692.1359081391840.JavaMail.root@mswamui-andean.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Alys K. wrote:
> Can anyone positively identify the type of fruit tree this 
> is?  A resident in my retirement community says that it's a quince, but 
> I'm not sure.  It grows in the scrub area at the edge of the community. 
>  I've looked online, but it appears to be rounder, more globular, than 
> most quince varieties.  Here is the link to my Flickr site where this is 
> the first of three photos of "the tree":
>
>http://www.flickr.com/photos/8311418 at N08/8160947226/in/set-72157631799881583/

Those sure looks like Asian pears to me!

Urtatim
who has been seeing unfamiliar birds in her neighborhood lately

From JIMCHEVAL at aol.com  Fri Jan 25 12:52:10 2013
From: JIMCHEVAL at aol.com (JIMCHEVAL at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 15:52:10 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Tracing food consumption through istopic analysis of
	bones
Message-ID: <10b5b.331bb5c0.3e344a7a@aol.com>

I imagine we all know in a general way that the rich ate more meat than the 
 poor in our time; I only recently learned that meat consumption overall 
went up  in France at the end of the medieval period.

For those who read French,  this article - which looks at English and 
German sites as well - provides  isotopic analyses of skeletons which confirm all 
this in a more concrete  way:

Reconstitution des comportements alimentaires aux ?poques historiques  en 
Europe ? partir de l'analyse isotopique d'ossements  humains


http://www.persee.fr/web/revues/home/prescript/article/rbph_0035-0818_2002_n
um_80_4_4676?luceneQuery=%28%2B%28content%3Aisotopiques+title%3Aisotopiques%
5E2.0+fullContent%3Aisotopiques%5E100.0+fullTitle%3Aisotopiques%5E140.0+summ
ary%3Aisotopiques+authors%3Aisotopiques%5E5.0+illustrations%3Aisotopiques%5E
4.0+bibrefs%3Aisotopiques%5E4.0+toctitles%3Aisotopiques%5E4.0+toctitles1%3Ai
sotopiques%5E3.0+toctitles2%3Aisotopiques%5E2.0+toctitles3%3Aisotopiques%29+
%2B%28content%3Aalimentation+title%3Aalimentation%5E2.0+fullContent%3Aalimen
tation%5E100.0+fullTitle%3Aalimentation%5E140.0+summary%3Aalimentation+autho
rs%3Aalimentation%5E5.0+illustrations%3Aalimentation%5E4.0+bibrefs%3Aaliment
ation%5E4.0+toctitles%3Aalimentation%5E4.0+toctitles1%3Aalimentation%5E3.0+t
octitles2%3Aalimentation%5E2.0+toctitles3%3Aalimentation%29%29+AND+%28+%2Bac
cess_right%3A%28free%29+%29&words=isotopiques&words=100&words=140&words=alim
entation&words=free

Jim  Chevallier
www.chezjim.com

Newly translated from Pierre Jean-Baptiste  Le Grand d'Aussy:
Eggs, Cheese and Butter in Old Regime France 
 

From mistressaldyth at gmail.com  Fri Jan 25 14:33:43 2013
From: mistressaldyth at gmail.com (Deborah Hammons)
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 15:33:43 -0700
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Kissel
In-Reply-To: <15CD302BC0FD449EB4363710BC855668@TerryPC>
References: <CAPPosh6UvgGMjvad_fbzf=CuEbddj3gPnK+fGNfzZt24B4s5tQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<74767F068F80457ABDA000654847FE59@TerryPC>
	<CAPPosh6a8og1O3MmsJeUWKkVV+bSup20CLzBK8y12f+-YvBqAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<15CD302BC0FD449EB4363710BC855668@TerryPC>
Message-ID: <CAPPosh6R28yc9Q94bNxFq7=xCXnT3Z3vLVW87XnHPLgHmHPraQ@mail.gmail.com>

What do you think of the idea that buckwheat groats could be used?

Aldyth

On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 6:39 PM, Terry Decker <t.d.decker at att.net> wrote:

> Rye was the common grain of northern Europe.  It was well suited for the
> climate and the short growing period.  Less common, but also grown in the
> Ukraine (remember the source is from Kiev) was winter wheat, which was
> brought to the US by Russian Mennonites in the 19th Century.  The potato is
> probably out of period.
>
> Bear
>
>
>
>  Yay Bear!!.  I have been looking into my archeological grain findings too.
>> Seems they refer to rye more times than not.  One of the more recent finds
>> says potato....
>>
>> Aldyth
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 12:48 PM, Terry Decker <t.d.decker at att.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>  Remnants of grain is very helpful.  The thickener is obviously starch
>>> from
>>> cereal.  The remnants are very likely the "middlings" from milling flour,
>>> most probably wheat or spelt.  You might also want to look for archaic
>>> definitions for the translation of "remnants."  It is possible that they
>>> are actually referring to flour or even wheat starch.
>>>
>>> The Primary Chronicle (or The Tale of Bygone Years) is actually early
>>> 12th
>>> Century (about 1113) and covers Kievan history from about 850 to 1110.
>>> Since there isn't (to my knowledge) an existing copy of the original you
>>> may be looking at a modification from the 14th or 15th Century.
>>>
>>> Bear
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  And, there are again those nebulous 10th century  references to the
>>>
>>>> Primary
>>>> Chronicle where this was made.  What kind of "thickener" would have been
>>>> in
>>>> use then?  "Remnants of grain"  isn't helpful.
>>>>
>>>> Aldyth
>>>>
>>>
> ______________________________**_________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/**listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-**ansteorra.org<http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org>
>

From sprucebranch at gmail.com  Fri Jan 25 14:49:50 2013
From: sprucebranch at gmail.com (Ian Kusz)
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 14:49:50 -0800
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Tracing food consumption through istopic analysis
	of bones
In-Reply-To: <10b5b.331bb5c0.3e344a7a@aol.com>
References: <10b5b.331bb5c0.3e344a7a@aol.com>
Message-ID: <CAHofC-RqD6=N5H3SGYuduBDFTjO2OiCNa8o5JESEB=qJ1h7qTg@mail.gmail.com>

funny; when they examine my bones, all they'll find is a bunch of twinkies.

On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 12:52 PM, <JIMCHEVAL at aol.com> wrote:

> I imagine we all know in a general way that the rich ate more meat than the
>  poor in our time; I only recently learned that meat consumption overall
> went up  in France at the end of the medieval period.
>
> For those who read French,  this article - which looks at English and
> German sites as well - provides  isotopic analyses of skeletons which
> confirm all
> this in a more concrete  way:
>
> Reconstitution des comportements alimentaires aux ?poques historiques  en
> Europe ? partir de l'analyse isotopique d'ossements  humains
>
>
>
> http://www.persee.fr/web/revues/home/prescript/article/rbph_0035-0818_2002_n
>
> um_80_4_4676?luceneQuery=%28%2B%28content%3Aisotopiques+title%3Aisotopiques%
>
> 5E2.0+fullContent%3Aisotopiques%5E100.0+fullTitle%3Aisotopiques%5E140.0+summ
>
> ary%3Aisotopiques+authors%3Aisotopiques%5E5.0+illustrations%3Aisotopiques%5E
>
> 4.0+bibrefs%3Aisotopiques%5E4.0+toctitles%3Aisotopiques%5E4.0+toctitles1%3Ai
>
> sotopiques%5E3.0+toctitles2%3Aisotopiques%5E2.0+toctitles3%3Aisotopiques%29+
>
> %2B%28content%3Aalimentation+title%3Aalimentation%5E2.0+fullContent%3Aalimen
>
> tation%5E100.0+fullTitle%3Aalimentation%5E140.0+summary%3Aalimentation+autho
>
> rs%3Aalimentation%5E5.0+illustrations%3Aalimentation%5E4.0+bibrefs%3Aaliment
>
> ation%5E4.0+toctitles%3Aalimentation%5E4.0+toctitles1%3Aalimentation%5E3.0+t
>
> octitles2%3Aalimentation%5E2.0+toctitles3%3Aalimentation%29%29+AND+%28+%2Bac
>
> cess_right%3A%28free%29+%29&words=isotopiques&words=100&words=140&words=alim
> entation&words=free
>
> Jim  Chevallier
> www.chezjim.com
>
> Newly translated from Pierre Jean-Baptiste  Le Grand d'Aussy:
> Eggs, Cheese and Butter in Old Regime France
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org
>



-- 
Ian of Oertha

From t.d.decker at att.net  Fri Jan 25 15:00:39 2013
From: t.d.decker at att.net (Terry Decker)
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 17:00:39 -0600
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Kissel
In-Reply-To: <CAPPosh6R28yc9Q94bNxFq7=xCXnT3Z3vLVW87XnHPLgHmHPraQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPPosh6UvgGMjvad_fbzf=CuEbddj3gPnK+fGNfzZt24B4s5tQ@mail.gmail.com><74767F068F80457ABDA000654847FE59@TerryPC><CAPPosh6a8og1O3MmsJeUWKkVV+bSup20CLzBK8y12f+-YvBqAQ@mail.gmail.com><15CD302BC0FD449EB4363710BC855668@TerryPC>
	<CAPPosh6R28yc9Q94bNxFq7=xCXnT3Z3vLVW87XnHPLgHmHPraQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1C1132DA181F4B86BFE4B4D0D37020A4@TerryPC>

Yes.  buckwheat groats are 70 to 78 percent starch, buckwheat flour is even 
better at 71 to 90 percent.  This makes it roughly equivalent to hard winter 
wheat in starch content.  There may be a qualitative difference between the 
starches, but buckwheat starch is used as a thickener in some Korean recipes 
(that I know of, it may have wider use).

As to whether buckwheat was used in this manner in period, I don't know.

Bear


> What do you think of the idea that buckwheat groats could be used?
>
> Aldyth
>
> On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 6:39 PM, Terry Decker <t.d.decker at att.net> wrote:
>
>> Rye was the common grain of northern Europe.  It was well suited for the
>> climate and the short growing period.  Less common, but also grown in the
>> Ukraine (remember the source is from Kiev) was winter wheat, which was
>> brought to the US by Russian Mennonites in the 19th Century.  The potato 
>> is
>> probably out of period.
>>
>> Bear


From mistressaldyth at gmail.com  Fri Jan 25 15:13:41 2013
From: mistressaldyth at gmail.com (Deborah Hammons)
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 16:13:41 -0700
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Kissel
In-Reply-To: <1C1132DA181F4B86BFE4B4D0D37020A4@TerryPC>
References: <CAPPosh6UvgGMjvad_fbzf=CuEbddj3gPnK+fGNfzZt24B4s5tQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<74767F068F80457ABDA000654847FE59@TerryPC>
	<CAPPosh6a8og1O3MmsJeUWKkVV+bSup20CLzBK8y12f+-YvBqAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<15CD302BC0FD449EB4363710BC855668@TerryPC>
	<CAPPosh6R28yc9Q94bNxFq7=xCXnT3Z3vLVW87XnHPLgHmHPraQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<1C1132DA181F4B86BFE4B4D0D37020A4@TerryPC>
Message-ID: <CAPPosh45ooeV2JubWML4PZVTkBL5joY3OUq4=n5osfRRCPSwQQ@mail.gmail.com>

I have three credible references to the use of buckwheat groats for
"pancakes" so I am thinking making the jump to the fact they had them, and
they used them.  Going to try out a batch and see.

Aldyth

On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 4:00 PM, Terry Decker <t.d.decker at att.net> wrote:

> Yes.  buckwheat groats are 70 to 78 percent starch, buckwheat flour is
> even better at 71 to 90 percent.  This makes it roughly equivalent to hard
> winter wheat in starch content.  There may be a qualitative difference
> between the starches, but buckwheat starch is used as a thickener in some
> Korean recipes (that I know of, it may have wider use).
>
> As to whether buckwheat was used in this manner in period, I don't know.
>
> Bear
>
>
>
>  What do you think of the idea that buckwheat groats could be used?
>>
>> Aldyth
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 6:39 PM, Terry Decker <t.d.decker at att.net> wrote:
>>
>>  Rye was the common grain of northern Europe.  It was well suited for the
>>> climate and the short growing period.  Less common, but also grown in the
>>> Ukraine (remember the source is from Kiev) was winter wheat, which was
>>> brought to the US by Russian Mennonites in the 19th Century.  The potato
>>> is
>>> probably out of period.
>>>
>>> Bear
>>>
>>
> ______________________________**_________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/**listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-**ansteorra.org<http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org>
>

From karobert at unm.edu  Fri Jan 25 15:55:14 2013
From: karobert at unm.edu (Kathleen Roberts)
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 23:55:14 +0000
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Good price on butter
Message-ID: <AF2F1DA7964D6344A6B72C61AC9AA953050DCFBC@BLUPRD0711MB426.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>

Smith's has butter 3 lbs for $5.00 this week.  That's better than most I have seen, even Shamrock.  And it is standard quarters.



Cailte



Kathleen Roberts

Admissions Advisor

University of New Mexico

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Being Irish, he had an abiding sense of tragedy, which sustained him through temporary periods of joy."  W.B. Yeats



"The hand that rocks the ladle rules the world."  Nadia G.

From t.d.decker at att.net  Fri Jan 25 16:23:10 2013
From: t.d.decker at att.net (Terry Decker)
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 18:23:10 -0600
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Kissel
In-Reply-To: <CAPPosh45ooeV2JubWML4PZVTkBL5joY3OUq4=n5osfRRCPSwQQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPPosh6UvgGMjvad_fbzf=CuEbddj3gPnK+fGNfzZt24B4s5tQ@mail.gmail.com><74767F068F80457ABDA000654847FE59@TerryPC><CAPPosh6a8og1O3MmsJeUWKkVV+bSup20CLzBK8y12f+-YvBqAQ@mail.gmail.com><15CD302BC0FD449EB4363710BC855668@TerryPC><CAPPosh6R28yc9Q94bNxFq7=xCXnT3Z3vLVW87XnHPLgHmHPraQ@mail.gmail.com><1C1132DA181F4B86BFE4B4D0D37020A4@TerryPC>
	<CAPPosh45ooeV2JubWML4PZVTkBL5joY3OUq4=n5osfRRCPSwQQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0EBADC69D12144899E1EBB087959A569@TerryPC>

Buckwheat was introduced into Russia from Asia, possibly (and speculatively) 
during the Mongol incursions of the 13th Century.  It began moving west from 
Russia into the rest of Europe around the 15th Century.  The were definitely 
used in period.

My question is whether there is any evidence they were used specifically as 
a thickener, which is part of the initial discussion.

After you try out the recipes, post them and let us know the results.

Bear


>I have three credible references to the use of buckwheat groats for
> "pancakes" so I am thinking making the jump to the fact they had them, and
> they used them.  Going to try out a batch and see.
>
> Aldyth
>
> On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 4:00 PM, Terry Decker <t.d.decker at att.net> wrote:
>
>> Yes.  buckwheat groats are 70 to 78 percent starch, buckwheat flour is
>> even better at 71 to 90 percent.  This makes it roughly equivalent to 
>> hard
>> winter wheat in starch content.  There may be a qualitative difference
>> between the starches, but buckwheat starch is used as a thickener in some
>> Korean recipes (that I know of, it may have wider use).
>>
>> As to whether buckwheat was used in this manner in period, I don't know.
>>
>> Bear


From prescotj at telusplanet.net  Fri Jan 25 16:30:07 2013
From: prescotj at telusplanet.net (James Prescott)
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 17:30:07 -0700 (MST)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Tracing food consumption through istopic analysis
 of	bones
Message-ID: <18294430.1469140.1359160208823.JavaMail.nitido@priv-edtnes92>


I have read that the population drop due to the Black Death led to higher living standards, including more meat, for the surviving ordinary folks.


Thorvald


Jan 25, 2013 01:52:39 PM, sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org wrote:

===========================================

I imagine we all know in a general way that the rich ate more meat than the 
 poor in our time; I only recently learned that meat consumption overall 
went up  in France at the end of the medieval period.

From ranvaig at columbus.rr.com  Fri Jan 25 17:03:38 2013
From: ranvaig at columbus.rr.com (Sharon Palmer)
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 20:03:38 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Kissel
In-Reply-To: <0EBADC69D12144899E1EBB087959A569@TerryPC>
References: <CAPPosh6UvgGMjvad_fbzf=CuEbddj3gPnK+fGNfzZt24B4s5tQ@mail.gmail.com><74767
	F068F80457ABDA000654847FE59@TerryPC><CAPPosh6a8og1O3MmsJeUWKkVV+bSup20CLzB
	K8y12f+-YvBqAQ@mail.gmail.com><15CD302BC0FD449EB4363710BC855668@TerryPC><C
	APPosh6R28yc9Q94bNxFq7=xCXnT3Z3vLVW87XnHPLgHmHPraQ@mail.gmail.com><1C1132D
	A181F4B86BFE4B4D0D37020A4@TerryPC>
	<CAPPosh45ooeV2JubWML4PZVTkBL5joY3OUq4=n5osfRRCPSwQQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<0EBADC69D12144899E1EBB087959A569@TerryPC>
Message-ID: <p0601021ccd28daa3d161@[10.0.1.112]>

>Buckwheat was introduced into Russia from Asia, 
>possibly (and speculatively) during the Mongol 
>incursions of the 13th Century.  It began moving 
>west from Russia into the rest of Europe around 
>the 15th Century.  The were definitely used in 
>period.
>
>My question is whether there is any evidence 
>they were used specifically as a thickener, 
>which is part of the initial discussion.


Rumpolt 1581 talks about Buckwheat cooked with 
beef broth until it is thick, but this is 
probably buckwheat groats, not flour.

Zugem?? 98.  Buckwheat porridge (Heidenbrey)/ 
that is cleanly picked (hulled??) and washed off/ 
set it with beef broth to (the fire)/ let simmer/ 
until it becomes thick/ put fat/ that has been 
skimmed from beef broth/ in it/ like this it is 
good and well tasting.

Ranvaig

From t.d.decker at att.net  Fri Jan 25 17:36:36 2013
From: t.d.decker at att.net (Terry Decker)
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 19:36:36 -0600
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Tracing food consumption through istopic analysis
	of	bones
In-Reply-To: <18294430.1469140.1359160208823.JavaMail.nitido@priv-edtnes92>
References: <18294430.1469140.1359160208823.JavaMail.nitido@priv-edtnes92>
Message-ID: <892224A081E64CD49741D89EDA4BD54A@TerryPC>

The general adoption of the moldboard plow and the three field rotation 
system improved the general food supply in the 8th and 9th Centuries.  This 
generally led to an improvement in the quality of life which was slowly 
eroded by a growing population.  Plague reduced the population and the 
inheritance laws concentrated wealth across a broad spectrum of the 
population.  Combined with an industrial revolution in wind and water 
powered technologies, the effect was a higher standard of living for most 
Europeans.  This standard of living lasted for roughly 300 years, when it 
declined from a number of factors.

Ferdinand Braudel's 3 volume series on Civilization and Capitalism, 
particularly the first volume, The Structures of Everyday Life, provides a 
lot of information and references on general existence between the 15th and 
the 18th Centuries.

Bear


>
> I have read that the population drop due to the Black Death led to higher 
> living standards, including more meat, for the surviving ordinary folks.
>
>
> Thorvald


From johnnae at mac.com  Fri Jan 25 19:02:02 2013
From: johnnae at mac.com (Johnna Holloway)
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 22:02:02 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] How Tasty Was the Past? Cooking My Way into the 17th
	Century Kitchen
Message-ID: <784D879B-B63B-4713-98F4-22715217E3EB@mac.com>

>From a blog about a doctoral project
"my work has revolved around the minutia of everyday life in the kitchens of the court of Brandenburg in the seventeenth century."

http://cmems.stanford.edu/blog/how-tasty-was-past-cooking-my-way-17th-century-kitchen

Johnnae

From mistressaldyth at gmail.com  Fri Jan 25 19:17:41 2013
From: mistressaldyth at gmail.com (Deborah Hammons)
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 20:17:41 -0700
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Kissel
In-Reply-To: <p0601021ccd28daa3d161@10.0.1.112>
References: <CAPPosh6UvgGMjvad_fbzf=CuEbddj3gPnK+fGNfzZt24B4s5tQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<15CD302BC0FD449EB4363710BC855668@TerryPC>
	<CAPPosh45ooeV2JubWML4PZVTkBL5joY3OUq4=n5osfRRCPSwQQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<0EBADC69D12144899E1EBB087959A569@TerryPC>
	<p0601021ccd28daa3d161@10.0.1.112>
Message-ID: <CAPPosh7PQe1DB_u5V=NNV9mNF+q5iA4VNVoG_=ORc9dARb54Nw@mail.gmail.com>

I am going to experiment with boiling the groats (to make kasha) and then
using the groat water to make the kissel with the cherries.  If it thickens
I think I will go with that.  I think that making a meal with little waste
would make more sense in the long run.  And I am going to try grinding the
hulled groats into flour (mortar and pestle) and just using it like flour
for gravy.  There is a recipe out there for white sauce using butter and
flour and sour milk.  For Pelmeni.

Aldyth

On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 6:03 PM, Sharon Palmer <ranvaig at columbus.rr.com>wrote:

> Buckwheat was introduced into Russia from Asia, possibly (and
>> speculatively) during the Mongol incursions of the 13th Century.  It began
>> moving west from Russia into the rest of Europe around the 15th Century.
>>  The were definitely used in period.
>>
>> My question is whether there is any evidence they were used specifically
>> as a thickener, which is part of the initial discussion.
>>
>
>
> Rumpolt 1581 talks about Buckwheat cooked with beef broth until it is
> thick, but this is probably buckwheat groats, not flour.
>
> Zugem?? 98.  Buckwheat porridge (Heidenbrey)/ that is cleanly picked
> (hulled??) and washed off/ set it with beef broth to (the fire)/ let
> simmer/ until it becomes thick/ put fat/ that has been skimmed from beef
> broth/ in it/ like this it is good and well tasting.
>
> Ranvaig
>
> ______________________________**_________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/**listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-**ansteorra.org<http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org>
>

From mistressaldyth at gmail.com  Fri Jan 25 19:46:35 2013
From: mistressaldyth at gmail.com (Deborah Hammons)
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 20:46:35 -0700
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Kissel
In-Reply-To: <CAPPosh7PQe1DB_u5V=NNV9mNF+q5iA4VNVoG_=ORc9dARb54Nw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPPosh6UvgGMjvad_fbzf=CuEbddj3gPnK+fGNfzZt24B4s5tQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<15CD302BC0FD449EB4363710BC855668@TerryPC>
	<CAPPosh45ooeV2JubWML4PZVTkBL5joY3OUq4=n5osfRRCPSwQQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<0EBADC69D12144899E1EBB087959A569@TerryPC>
	<p0601021ccd28daa3d161@10.0.1.112>
	<CAPPosh7PQe1DB_u5V=NNV9mNF+q5iA4VNVoG_=ORc9dARb54Nw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPPosh4pAgugpRn9AYit6==YNmjA7b6KXv9+47VbTZQrBL76JQ@mail.gmail.com>

I am going to experiment with boiling the groats (to make kasha) and then
using the groat water to make the kissel with the cherries.  If it thickens
I think I will go with that.  I think that making a meal with little waste
would make more sense in the long run.  And I am going to try grinding the
hulled groats into flour (mortar and pestle) and just using it like flour
for gravy.  There is a recipe out there for white sauce using butter and
flour and sour milk.  For Pelmeni.

Aldyth

On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 6:03 PM, Sharon Palmer <ranvaig at columbus.rr.com>wrote:

> Buckwheat was introduced into Russia from Asia, possibly (and
>> speculatively) during the Mongol incursions of the 13th Century.  It began
>> moving west from Russia into the rest of Europe around the 15th Century.
>>  The were definitely used in period.
>>
>> My question is whether there is any evidence they were used specifically
>> as a thickener, which is part of the initial discussion.
>>
>
>
> Rumpolt 1581 talks about Buckwheat cooked with beef broth until it is
> thick, but this is probably buckwheat groats, not flour.
>
> Zugem?? 98.  Buckwheat porridge (Heidenbrey)/ that is cleanly picked
> (hulled??) and washed off/ set it with beef broth to (the fire)/ let
> simmer/ until it becomes thick/ put fat/ that has been skimmed from beef
> broth/ in it/ like this it is good and well tasting.
>
> Ranvaig
>
> ______________________________**_________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/**listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-**ansteorra.org<http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org>
>

From nancy_kiel at hotmail.com  Sat Jan 26 06:07:23 2013
From: nancy_kiel at hotmail.com (Nancy Kiel)
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2013 09:07:23 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Is This a Type of Quince?
In-Reply-To: <510153EB.30200@ix.netcom.com>
References: <510153EB.30200@ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <BLU163-W19002EF16CD11D9E8760CBE01A0@phx.gbl>


I'm pretty sure that this is NOT a quince---the leaves look way too big, and quince bushes have thorns (and aren't trees).
 

Nancy Kiel nancy_kiel at hotmail.com Never tease a weasel! This is very good advice. For the weasel will not like it And teasing isn't nice.
 

> Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2013 10:31:55 -0500
> From: alysk at ix.netcom.com
> To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> Subject: [Sca-cooks] Is This a Type of Quince?
> 
> Greetings! Can anyone positively identify the type of fruit tree this 
> is? A resident in my retirement community says that it's a quince, but 
> I'm not sure. It grows in the scrub area at the edge of the community. 
> I've looked online, but it appears to be rounder, more globular, than 
> most quince varieties. Here is the link to my Flickr site where this is 
> the first of three photos of "the tree":
> 
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/8311418 at N08/8160947226/in/set-72157631799881583/
> 
> Sure hope someone knows!
> 
> Alys K.
> -- 
> Elise Fleming
> alysk at ix.netcom.com
> alyskatharine at gmail.com
> http://damealys.medievalcookery.com/
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/8311418 at N08/sets/
> _______________________________________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org
 		 	   		  

From karobert at unm.edu  Sat Jan 26 07:06:31 2013
From: karobert at unm.edu (Kathleen Roberts)
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2013 15:06:31 +0000
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Good price on butter
In-Reply-To: <AF2F1DA7964D6344A6B72C61AC9AA953050DCFBC@BLUPRD0711MB426.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
References: <AF2F1DA7964D6344A6B72C61AC9AA953050DCFBC@BLUPRD0711MB426.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <AF2F1DA7964D6344A6B72C61AC9AA953050E22CC@CH1PRD0711MB432.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>

Sorry folks, meant to send that to the local cooks list.
Cailte

Kathleen Roberts

Admissions Advisor

University of New Mexico

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Being Irish, he had an abiding sense of tragedy, which sustained him through temporary periods of joy."  W.B. Yeats



"The hand that rocks the ladle rules the world."  Nadia G.

________________________________________
From: sca-cooks-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org [sca-cooks-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org] on behalf of Kathleen Roberts [karobert at unm.edu]
Sent: Friday, January 25, 2013 4:55 PM
To: SCA-Cooks at ansteorra.org
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Good price on butter

Smith's has butter 3 lbs for $5.00 this week.  That's better than most I have seen, even Shamrock.  And it is standard quarters.



Cailte



Kathleen Roberts

Admissions Advisor

University of New Mexico

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Being Irish, he had an abiding sense of tragedy, which sustained him through temporary periods of joy."  W.B. Yeats



"The hand that rocks the ladle rules the world."  Nadia G.
_______________________________________________
Sca-cooks mailing list
Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org

From JIMCHEVAL at aol.com  Sat Jan 26 10:33:11 2013
From: JIMCHEVAL at aol.com (JIMCHEVAL at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2013 13:33:11 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Menestral - medieval food links (French)
Message-ID: <620.23de9a9a.3e357b67@aol.com>

Menestral is a site which in general offers numerous links and  
bibliographic information on various aspects of the medieval period. It tends to  be in 
French, since the assumption seems to be that the same information is more  
widely available for English. Still the section on Food at least has an 
intro in  English:
 
_http://www.menestrel.fr/spip.php?rubrique379&lang=en_ 
(http://www.menestrel.fr/spip.php?rubrique379&lang=en) 
 
I haven't found much new here, but that's only because I've been  
researching this for a while. The site in fact lists several articles which it  took 
me a while to find on my own.
 
Jim  Chevallier
www.chezjim.com

Newly translated from Pierre Jean-Baptiste  Le Grand d'Aussy:
Eggs, Cheese and Butter in Old Regime  France

From ddfr at daviddfriedman.com  Sun Jan 27 00:24:09 2013
From: ddfr at daviddfriedman.com (David Friedman)
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 09:24:09 +0100
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Is This a Type of Quince?
In-Reply-To: <BLU163-W19002EF16CD11D9E8760CBE01A0@phx.gbl>
References: <510153EB.30200@ix.netcom.com>
	<BLU163-W19002EF16CD11D9E8760CBE01A0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <5104E429.5010101@daviddfriedman.com>

I think you may be confusing the Quince with the Japanese Quince. The 
quince is a tree--I have one.

On 1/26/13 3:07 PM, Nancy Kiel wrote:
> I'm pretty sure that this is NOT a quince---the leaves look way too big, and quince bushes have thorns (and aren't trees).
>   
>
> Nancy Kiel nancy_kiel at hotmail.com Never tease a weasel! This is very good advice. For the weasel will not like it And teasing isn't nice.
>   
>
>> Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2013 10:31:55 -0500
>> From: alysk at ix.netcom.com
>> To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
>> Subject: [Sca-cooks] Is This a Type of Quince?
>>
>> Greetings! Can anyone positively identify the type of fruit tree this
>> is? A resident in my retirement community says that it's a quince, but
>> I'm not sure. It grows in the scrub area at the edge of the community.
>> I've looked online, but it appears to be rounder, more globular, than
>> most quince varieties. Here is the link to my Flickr site where this is
>> the first of three photos of "the tree":
>>
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/8311418 at N08/8160947226/in/set-72157631799881583/
>>
>> Sure hope someone knows!
>>
>> Alys K.
>> -- 
>> Elise Fleming
>> alysk at ix.netcom.com
>> alyskatharine at gmail.com
>> http://damealys.medievalcookery.com/
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/8311418 at N08/sets/
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sca-cooks mailing list
>> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
>> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org
>   		 	   		
> _______________________________________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org
>
>

-- 
David Friedman
www.daviddfriedman.com
http://daviddfriedman.blogspot.com/


From johnnae at mac.com  Sun Jan 27 07:01:53 2013
From: johnnae at mac.com (Johnna Holloway)
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 10:01:53 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Swan in Plumage
Message-ID: <5F45CD06-394F-4A97-9D49-C1DD4F5176CA@mac.com>

The recent posts on swans and recipes reminded me that I had seen a swan in plumage on a dinner table lately, 
but I couldn't quite remember where.

It's on Ivan Day's Blog of course. 

http://foodhistorjottings.blogspot.com/

Thursday, 20 December 2012 Eat the Entire Creation if you dare ....

...but Beware of the Fatal Effects of Gluttony

Johnnae

From JIMCHEVAL at aol.com  Sun Jan 27 08:06:44 2013
From: JIMCHEVAL at aol.com (JIMCHEVAL at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 11:06:44 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Swan in Plumage
Message-ID: <f4b0.62d19e6e.3e36aa93@aol.com>

Worth visiting for the images of period spices alone (the swan image is way 
 down the page).

Ivan Day's own Web page gives a recipe for this, showing  that the actual 
contents of the pie were.... goose.
 
_http://www.historicfood.com/_ (http://www.historicfood.com/) 
 
Jim  Chevallier
www.chezjim.com

Newly translated from Pierre Jean-Baptiste  Le Grand d'Aussy:
Eggs, Cheese and Butter in Old Regime France  

 
In a message dated 1/27/2013 7:02:16 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,  
johnnae at mac.com writes:

http://foodhistorjottings.blogspot.com/


From sassyredhead39 at yahoo.com  Sun Jan 27 16:50:01 2013
From: sassyredhead39 at yahoo.com (sassyredhead)
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 16:50:01 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Queens Tea
Message-ID: <1359334201.5684.YahooMailNeo@web162105.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

I will be hosting my first Queens Tea in April. I am looking for some ideas...what have you done for a Tea...what worked what didn't...period foods...elegant foods...mixture of foods?? All ideas welcome!
Baroness Sarah Beth
Atlantia

From johnnae at mac.com  Sun Jan 27 17:57:10 2013
From: johnnae at mac.com (Johnna Holloway)
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 20:57:10 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Queens Tea
In-Reply-To: <1359334201.5684.YahooMailNeo@web162105.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <1359334201.5684.YahooMailNeo@web162105.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <E7B5EFEC-AF82-4004-9845-9852F0C32B76@mac.com>

Depends on large part--
how many,
setting (how rustic or facilities are available? Do you provide and transport everything from linens to tables plus the food?),
anticipated schedule (late in afternoon or lunchtime?)
budget (who pays?),
distance to transport everything,
royal preferences?
weather during that time of year and what happens if it rains?

Once you know those things, then you can talk about the menu.

Johnnae

On Jan 27, 2013, at 7:50 PM, sassyredhead wrote:

> I will be hosting my first Queens Tea in April. I am looking for some ideas...what have you done for a Tea...what worked what didn't...period foods...elegant foods...mixture of foods?  All ideas welcome!
> Baroness Sarah Beth
> Atlantia

From jimandandi at cox.net  Sun Jan 27 20:47:22 2013
From: jimandandi at cox.net (Jim and Andi Houston)
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 23:47:22 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Queens Tea
In-Reply-To: <1359334201.5684.YahooMailNeo@web162105.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <1359334201.5684.YahooMailNeo@web162105.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <02ea01cdfd12$9007a070$b016e150$@cox.net>

Sarah-

I've done two Queen's Teas at Gulf Wars. The Queen's Tea at Gulf Wars is
served on the field between tournaments, no kitchen available. Gulf Wars is
a week long and the Tea is always on Wednesday, so you either have to bring
everything from home and keep it cold for 4-5 days, or you have to be able
to find it in Hattiesburg, Mississippi. Both Queens agreed to period food
and let me choose my own theme.

1st year I did a crazy Asian romp with finger foods from Persia, India, and
China. 

http://madhavifeast.wordpress.com/2011/02/09/gulf-wars-menu-take-4/

I did super-authentic food and modern themed cocktails ("Sneaky Hindu" and
"Pink Persian"). The food was delicious and everything was admired and
eaten, but at the end of the day the attendees cared as much (or more) about
the booze as they did about the food. I about killed myself cooking those
dishes in a primitive kitchen, even with lots of help. I made the food too
complicated.

The next year I was asked again. I decided to do a themed luncheon by
dressing in kampfrau with my minions, building a simple camp kitchen behind
the royal pavilion, and cooking at least some of the food right there during
the luncheon. I stripped the menu down to the simplest I could and made
everything ahead of time that couldn't be cooked over coals behind the
pavilion.

Here's the menu:
http://madhavifeast.wordpress.com/2012/02/13/queens-luncheon-final-menu/
We didn't do the apple fritters or the cherry tarts. Everything was cooked
ahead of time except the sausages and the funnel cakes. I cannot even tell
you how excited those royals were to get fresh, hot funnel cakes. They were
positively giddy. I made the sausages and cured the tongue at home, froze
them, and brought them with me. My apprentice took the marzipan tarts
description and turned it into these awesome heraldic-painted tarts with
molded marzipan, they were amazing. Once again, I served this very medieval
food with modern mixed drinks (French 75s with muddled strawberries and
mulled wine I think) and it was very successful. We had an absolute blast.

What I learned is:

They cared as much about the booze as they do about the food. Have good
drinks and plenty of them. Mixed drinks are the best way to stretch your
budget, and make sure they're not too strong.

Everything should be finger food. Nothing dripping or messy.

Don't bother serving raw vegetables, no one eats them. "Crudite" are a waste
of time and money. If you serve vegetables, hide them in pie crusts or under
cheese. People want sweets, carbs, and meat. If you're worried there's
nothing green, serve a bit of salad for people to put on their plate so they
won't feel so guilty.

Don't volunteer to decorate the pavilion. This is what chatelaines are
*for*. Tell the queen that you'll do the food but her people have to provide
the serving ware and table decorations. This means you don't have to get it,
transport it, set it up, or carry it home. This was a sanity-saving measure
for me so I could concentrate on the food.

Get twice as many volunteers as you'll think you'll need. Make sure one
volunteer has a car and is willing to make emergency runs, like when it's an
hour until serving time and you realize you don't have any ice for the
drinks.

Get one volunteer to do nothing but sit by the drinks coolers, pour drinks
in 4oz disposable cups, and chat with people. This keeps anyone from filling
their 42 ounce mug with rum punch. Also make sure there's plenty of
non-alcoholic drinks... and not just water!

Have fun. Make sure your staff is having fun. 

Good luck to you!
Madhavi
Trimaris


From JIMCHEVAL at aol.com  Sun Jan 27 21:08:47 2013
From: JIMCHEVAL at aol.com (JIMCHEVAL at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 00:08:47 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] =?iso-8859-1?q?La_Cuisine_m=E9di=E9vale__Yann_Amouret?=
Message-ID: <1e306.374c5664.3e3761df@aol.com>

Just happened on a French set of medieval redactions, readable in part at  
least for free
:
La Cuisine m?di?vale  Yann Amouret
?ditions  Atelier du gu? (2003)

_http://lekti.net/liseuse/9782913589377/index.html_ 
(http://lekti.net/liseuse/9782913589377/index.html) 
 
One is for lacquered eel. Never saw that one.

Jim  Chevallier
www.chezjim.com

Newly translated from Pierre Jean-Baptiste  Le Grand d'Aussy:
Eggs, Cheese and Butter in Old Regime France 
 

From the.red.ross at gmail.com  Mon Jan 28 05:02:15 2013
From: the.red.ross at gmail.com (Stephanie Ross)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 08:02:15 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Estonian food
Message-ID: <CALE-c-1aaAeWJC6x7Z6hsNO-eiZr-7TY+h=2KOw-12RhKmWvDQ@mail.gmail.com>

I had the great fortune to have visited the country of Estonia twice since
2008. I have been to Tallinn, the capitol, which is right on the coast of
the Gulf of Finland, twice, and took a bus ride to look at the folk
costumes and viking stuff at the Estonian National Museum in
Tartu (research for my Russian persona, doncha know). However, I quickly
found out that the Estonians hate the Russians that were brought in during
communist times. And I mean HATE. It was difficult for me as an American
(and a Rusophile) to see the blatant racism. Although I do understand it as
about 25% of the population of Estonia are transplanted/second generation
immigrants from Russia. Estonia stopped publishing its laws in Russian in
2009 and also shut down the Russian newspapers. One is only an Estonian
citizen if one can prove paternal heritage in the country before WWII.
Being born there does not make one a citizen, so the Russians are SOL.

Tallinn is the only intact medieval city left in Europe because Hitler
wanted to live there after the war, so he never bombed Estonia. It is quite
the tourist city with visitors from all over the world. There is a medieval
restaurant there called Olde Hansa, after the Hanseatic League that ruled
Estonia and the Nordic countries during the late middle ages (
www.oldehansa.ee). The restaurant also has a bakery that serves meat pies
for take away - the carrot and parsnip one was divine and unusual. I loved
walking down the cobblestone street eating a hot meatpie fresh from the
oven. The only thing that would have made it better was if I had been in
garb, although the street vendors that serve spiced nuts were in 14 cent.
medieval clothing, and Olde Hansa had a medieval store where I could have
bought clothes, shoes and ceramics. I did buy a Bartman mug for my former
lord. I saw the original from an archeology dig in a museum in Riga, Latvia
on my second trip.  The best part about Estonia is that everyone under 35
is fluent in English because of the Internat/Skype.

Of course I bought a cookbook on my first visit. The cookbook had the most
beautiful tablet-woven belt pictures on the front cover. Estonia is the
only country in the world (that I know of) where they still make
tablet-woven belts for their national costumes. I bought a half-dozen (all
they had) 3" square wooden weaving tablets at the museum in Tartu - wish I
could have found more! Here is a wonderful Estonian food blog
www.nami-nami.blogspot.com. I met the author Pille on my first visit to
Tallinn for dinner, when she took me to Olde Hansa. Food in Estonia is very
German - boiled potatoes, cream sauces, the best sauerkraut that I have
ever eaten, boiled meat, sausages and cabbage.

I plan to post a recipe for an Estonian type of potato salad called risolje
when I get to work. As I was flipping through the pages trying to find it,
two things jumped out at me regarding recent discussions on this list. The
first was regarding groats, which refers to crushed barley in northern
Estonia. The groats were cooked in water in a 10 to one ratio of water to
groats, then milk was added at the end of the cooking time. "Groat broth
was eaten with bread (OMG, the black and wheat bread there was to die for)
and baltic herring". This book also mentiones birch sap that was made into
a fermented drink in eastern Estonia.

At Tallinn Technical University, where I stayed with my travel companions
in the dormatories, the cafeteria served a meat-filled bread ball that was
fantastic and for which I cannot find a recipe anywhere. Is there anything
like it in period? It wasn't a dumpling like pelmeni; it was literally a
white bread ball baked with ground meat in the middle. I would buy three at
breakfast and put them in my pockets to eat later. I think they would make
a great portable breakfast for SCA if only I could find a recipe or more
info about them. OK, off to work, will post the recipe later.

AEschwynne

From agora158 at gmail.com  Mon Jan 28 05:18:02 2013
From: agora158 at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ana_Vald=E9s?=)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 11:18:02 -0200
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Estonian food
In-Reply-To: <CALE-c-1aaAeWJC6x7Z6hsNO-eiZr-7TY+h=2KOw-12RhKmWvDQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALE-c-1aaAeWJC6x7Z6hsNO-eiZr-7TY+h=2KOw-12RhKmWvDQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFbYiE+Z4pW_ctYDbpMWR5coHRh8zY-gv_i8vB5_h0JTZShufw@mail.gmail.com>

We had something very similar to what you described in Swedish food (Sweden
ruled Estonia and Latvia and Lituany under many years), it's called
"kroppkakor". It's made with potatos, as a kind of big Italian gnocchi or
dumpling. It's filled with ground meat and it taste wonderful.

http://www.food.com/recipe/swedish-kroppkakor-61420

http://kokblog.johannak.com/58/

Ana



On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 11:02 AM, Stephanie Ross <the.red.ross at gmail.com>wrote:

> I had the great fortune to have visited the country of Estonia twice since
> 2008. I have been to Tallinn, the capitol, which is right on the coast of
> the Gulf of Finland, twice, and took a bus ride to look at the folk
> costumes and viking stuff at the Estonian National Museum in
> Tartu (research for my Russian persona, doncha know). However, I quickly
> found out that the Estonians hate the Russians that were brought in during
> communist times. And I mean HATE. It was difficult for me as an American
> (and a Rusophile) to see the blatant racism. Although I do understand it as
> about 25% of the population of Estonia are transplanted/second generation
> immigrants from Russia. Estonia stopped publishing its laws in Russian in
> 2009 and also shut down the Russian newspapers. One is only an Estonian
> citizen if one can prove paternal heritage in the country before WWII.
> Being born there does not make one a citizen, so the Russians are SOL.
>
> Tallinn is the only intact medieval city left in Europe because Hitler
> wanted to live there after the war, so he never bombed Estonia. It is quite
> the tourist city with visitors from all over the world. There is a medieval
> restaurant there called Olde Hansa, after the Hanseatic League that ruled
> Estonia and the Nordic countries during the late middle ages (
> www.oldehansa.ee). The restaurant also has a bakery that serves meat pies
> for take away - the carrot and parsnip one was divine and unusual. I loved
> walking down the cobblestone street eating a hot meatpie fresh from the
> oven. The only thing that would have made it better was if I had been in
> garb, although the street vendors that serve spiced nuts were in 14 cent.
> medieval clothing, and Olde Hansa had a medieval store where I could have
> bought clothes, shoes and ceramics. I did buy a Bartman mug for my former
> lord. I saw the original from an archeology dig in a museum in Riga, Latvia
> on my second trip.  The best part about Estonia is that everyone under 35
> is fluent in English because of the Internat/Skype.
>
> Of course I bought a cookbook on my first visit. The cookbook had the most
> beautiful tablet-woven belt pictures on the front cover. Estonia is the
> only country in the world (that I know of) where they still make
> tablet-woven belts for their national costumes. I bought a half-dozen (all
> they had) 3" square wooden weaving tablets at the museum in Tartu - wish I
> could have found more! Here is a wonderful Estonian food blog
> www.nami-nami.blogspot.com. I met the author Pille on my first visit to
> Tallinn for dinner, when she took me to Olde Hansa. Food in Estonia is very
> German - boiled potatoes, cream sauces, the best sauerkraut that I have
> ever eaten, boiled meat, sausages and cabbage.
>
> I plan to post a recipe for an Estonian type of potato salad called risolje
> when I get to work. As I was flipping through the pages trying to find it,
> two things jumped out at me regarding recent discussions on this list. The
> first was regarding groats, which refers to crushed barley in northern
> Estonia. The groats were cooked in water in a 10 to one ratio of water to
> groats, then milk was added at the end of the cooking time. "Groat broth
> was eaten with bread (OMG, the black and wheat bread there was to die for)
> and baltic herring". This book also mentiones birch sap that was made into
> a fermented drink in eastern Estonia.
>
> At Tallinn Technical University, where I stayed with my travel companions
> in the dormatories, the cafeteria served a meat-filled bread ball that was
> fantastic and for which I cannot find a recipe anywhere. Is there anything
> like it in period? It wasn't a dumpling like pelmeni; it was literally a
> white bread ball baked with ground meat in the middle. I would buy three at
> breakfast and put them in my pockets to eat later. I think they would make
> a great portable breakfast for SCA if only I could find a recipe or more
> info about them. OK, off to work, will post the recipe later.
>
> AEschwynne
> _______________________________________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org
>



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? Leonardo da Vinci

From the.red.ross at gmail.com  Mon Jan 28 06:20:08 2013
From: the.red.ross at gmail.com (Stephanie Ross)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 09:20:08 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Estonian food-rosolje
Message-ID: <CALE-c-3y3OwdqvbkQaQw+AXT1Tko4LoMm6NTJRKA6yG04P_2tg@mail.gmail.com>

*Rosolje  (Salad)*

All the ingredients in this salad are completely typical of Estonian
cuisine. The dressing is cream-based, rather than the typical mayonnaise
dressing more common in Western Europe.
*Recipe Serving:* Serves 4

*Ingredients*
*Salad
*2 cups (450 ml) cold meat (Parisa, Fritz, roast or ham), cubed
3 fillets salted herring, soaked overnight, rinsed, and chopped
4 hard boiled eggs, chopped
6 potatoes, boiled, peeled, and cubed
4 dill pickles, chopped
2 onions, minced
2 apples, chopped
3 beets, boiled, peeled, and cubed
*Dressing
*1 cup (225 ml) sour cream
1 tsp (5 ml) mustard
1/2 tsp (2.5 g) sugar
2 tbsp (30 ml) vinegar
Salt and pepper to taste

*Instructions*

1.      Combine all the salad ingredients.

2.      Separately, whisk together dressing ingredients.

3.      Mix dressing well with salad ingredients and serve.

From the.red.ross at gmail.com  Mon Jan 28 07:41:48 2013
From: the.red.ross at gmail.com (Stephanie Ross)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 10:41:48 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Estonian food
Message-ID: <CALE-c-3DB2CHpVe72Wbc7K6kGTnMeDg7Tq=g8sXuzkoH9799Zg@mail.gmail.com>

Ana wrote:

We had something very similar to what you described in Swedish food (Sweden
ruled Estonia and Latvia and Lituany under many years), it's called
"kroppkakor". It's made with potatos, as a kind of big Italian gnocchi or
dumpling. It's filled with ground meat and it taste wonderful.

These kroppkakor are very similar to the potato balls that the Hispanics
(Cubans and Mexicans) make where I live in Florida. Not quite the same as
the meat-filled bread balls I had in Estonia, however; the bread was
distinctly NOT potato-based. I thought they might be Scandinavian because
Estonians today consider themselves Scandinavian and not Slavic, besides
the fact that Sweden ruled Estonia twice before and after the Hanseatic
league. I am dying to get my hands on the book "The Estonians Vikings" to
compare and contrast what we know about the Danish and Scandinavian
Vikings, and how they headed into Russia from Estonia.

A unique schmear that Estonians make for their bread is "egg butter", which
is butter mixed with chopped hard-boiled eggs, salt, chives, parsley and
dill (Estonians love dill, and boiled potatoes are always seasoned with it)
and sometimes sour cream is added too to make it lighter in texture.

There is a section in my book about how food was eaten/prepared "in times
past". Modern cookstoves did not come into being until 1860 - before that
they cooked in pots hung over the fire. Bread was baked once a week
(although there is no description of the ovens, sadly, except that
kohlrabi, turnips and later potatoes were cooked in the hot coals) and
Wednesday and Saturday were fasting, meatless days each week when the
family ate from the pot of porridge. (Always makes me think of the nursery
rhyme "pease porridge hot"). Vegetables, milk and water were added as
necessary to make the consistancy better when reheating it. Meat went from
being roasted in the oven before 1860 to being boiled on the stovetop or
fried in the pan. Pancakes became a staple after this time; before they
baked buns and bread but pancakes were easier to cook on the stovetop. Fish
started being fried at this time too, whereas before it was either baked or
boiled. Rye bread, barley porridge, roasted pork, sauerkraut and cabbage,
pickles, salted herring and fresh fish were the main staples of the diet
for nobles and farmers alike.

Here is a recipe for a lemon drink that is certainly "period-oid" made with
honey, lemon and yeast, a type of small mead it would seem. They also
describe how beer was made for the home if anyone is interested in that
information. There is also a recipe for a type of "kvas", a Russian
bread-based fermented drink that the Estonians call "Leivakali" which I can
also share if anyone is interested. My eating habits have changed since I
visted there. I now drink keefir at home. I used to buy a small glass every
morning at breakfast in Estonia, and I was thrilled to find it recently in
my local grocery stores. Keefir is definitely a staple drink in Estonia, as
well I'm sure in the Scandinavian countries.

Honey-Lemon Drink

700 g honey
5 liters water
25 g yeast
1-3 lemons

Bring the water to a boil. Add the lemon slices and cool to 40 degrees C.
Mix in the honey and let it cool completely. Finally add the yeast and let
it brew until froth forms. Pour into jars and secure tightly with lids.
Store in a cool place.


AEschwynne

From ddfr at daviddfriedman.com  Mon Jan 28 09:10:42 2013
From: ddfr at daviddfriedman.com (David Friedman)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 18:10:42 +0100
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Queens Tea
In-Reply-To: <1359334201.5684.YahooMailNeo@web162105.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <1359334201.5684.YahooMailNeo@web162105.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5106B112.9070502@daviddfriedman.com>

At the risk of sounding negative ... .

Tea as a drink comes into use in western Europe in the 17th century. Tea 
as the name of a social occasion probably originates in the 19th 
century. I am not in favor of encouraging the tendency of people in the 
SCA to smear all of history into a vague blur in which Jane Austen and 
Queen Boadiccea are contemporaries, so don't do queen's teas.

I don't suppose you could persuade the relevant authorities to find a 
period label for what they want to do?


On 1/28/13 1:50 AM, sassyredhead wrote:
> I will be hosting my first Queens Tea in April. I am looking for some ideas...what have you done for a Tea...what worked what didn't...period foods...elegant foods...mixture of foods?  All ideas welcome!
> Baroness Sarah Beth
> Atlantia
> _______________________________________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org
>
>

-- 
David/Cariadoc
www.daviddfriedman.com
http://daviddfriedman.blogspot.com/


From ddfr at daviddfriedman.com  Mon Jan 28 09:15:26 2013
From: ddfr at daviddfriedman.com (David Friedman)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 18:15:26 +0100
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Estonian food
In-Reply-To: <CALE-c-1aaAeWJC6x7Z6hsNO-eiZr-7TY+h=2KOw-12RhKmWvDQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALE-c-1aaAeWJC6x7Z6hsNO-eiZr-7TY+h=2KOw-12RhKmWvDQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5106B22E.7050005@daviddfriedman.com>

I visited Olde Hansa a few years ago. The decor is lovely but, at least 
then, the food wasn't consistently period. Not only did they serve 
coffee, the recipes, so far as I could tell, were invented by the 
proprietor on the basis of his guesses, not actually taken from period 
cookbooks. I don't know if that situation has changed since.

On 1/28/13 2:02 PM, Stephanie Ross wrote:

...

> Tallinn is the only intact medieval city left in Europe because Hitler
> wanted to live there after the war, so he never bombed Estonia. It is quite
> the tourist city with visitors from all over the world. There is a medieval
> restaurant there called Olde Hansa, after the Hanseatic League that ruled
> Estonia and the Nordic countries during the late middle ages (
> www.oldehansa.ee). The restaurant also has a bakery that serves meat pies
> for take away - the carrot and parsnip one was divine and unusual. I loved
> walking down the cobblestone street eating a hot meatpie fresh from the
> oven. The only thing that would have made it better was if I had been in
> garb, although the street vendors that serve spiced nuts were in 14 cent.
> medieval clothing, and Olde Hansa had a medieval store where I could have
> bought clothes, shoes and ceramics. I did buy a Bartman mug for my former
> lord. I saw the original from an archeology dig in a museum in Riga, Latvia
> on my second trip.  The best part about Estonia is that everyone under 35
> is fluent in English because of the Internat/Skype.
...
> AEschwynne

-- 
David/Cariadoc
www.daviddfriedman.com
http://daviddfriedman.blogspot.com/


From rcarrollmann at gmail.com  Mon Jan 28 09:51:51 2013
From: rcarrollmann at gmail.com (Robin Carroll-Mann)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 12:51:51 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Queens Tea
In-Reply-To: <5106B112.9070502@daviddfriedman.com>
References: <1359334201.5684.YahooMailNeo@web162105.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
	<5106B112.9070502@daviddfriedman.com>
Message-ID: <CA+tVTML9mRBUuGteZz39O4v9f1nS2Cv=9LNw1ZLu9Y-Gnh5R4g@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 12:10 PM, David Friedman
<ddfr at daviddfriedman.com> wrote:
> I don't suppose you could persuade the relevant authorities to find a period
> label for what they want to do?

"Collation", meaning a light meal, dates back to the 16th century.

Brighid ni Chiarain

From johnnae at mac.com  Mon Jan 28 10:24:47 2013
From: johnnae at mac.com (Johnna Holloway)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 13:24:47 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Queens Tea
In-Reply-To: <CA+tVTML9mRBUuGteZz39O4v9f1nS2Cv=9LNw1ZLu9Y-Gnh5R4g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1359334201.5684.YahooMailNeo@web162105.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
	<5106B112.9070502@daviddfriedman.com>
	<CA+tVTML9mRBUuGteZz39O4v9f1nS2Cv=9LNw1ZLu9Y-Gnh5R4g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A1AFEF21-B8AC-43DA-BE69-64AD7692554D@mac.com>

Tea shows up right on the boundary line.
According to OED-
the plant
[1598   W. Phillip tr. J. H. van Linschoten [Disc. Voy. E. & W. Indies  i. xxvi. 46/1]   The aforesaid warme water is made with the powder of a certaine hearbe called Chaa.] 
the drink
[1601   R. Johnson tr. G. Botero [Travellers Breviat  (1603) 216]   Water mixt with a certaine precious powder which they [the Japanese] use, they account a daintie beverage: they call it Chia.

Tea as "A meal or social entertainment at which tea is served" is mid 18th century."
---
One could use repast as well as collation or banquet meaning either
A slight repast between meals. Sometimes called running banquet. (Often transf. and fig., as in prec. sense.) Obs.

1509   Bp. J. Fisher [Wks i. 294]   Eschewynge bankettes, rere~soupers, joncryes betwyxe meles.
1552   R. Huloet [Abcedarium Anglico Latinum] ,   Banquet before supper, Antec?nium.
1620   T. Venner [Via Recta v. 91]   At banquets betweene meales, when the stomache is empty.
or 
Banquet as  "A course of sweetmeats, fruit, and wine, served either as a separate entertainment, or as a continuation of the principal meal, but in the latter case usually in a different room; a dessert. Obs. in gen. use; but cf. ?cake and wine banquet? in Scotland, ?fruit banquet? in northern counties."

1523   Ld. Berners tr. J. Froissart [Cronycles I. cccciii,]   He gaue dyners, suppers, and banketes to ladyes and damosels.
1584   T. Cogan [Haven of Health ccxii. 191]   Yea, and after Supper for feare least they be not full gorged, to haue a delicate banquet, with abundance of Wine.

Johnnae
   
On Jan 28, 2013, at 12:51 PM, Robin Carroll-Mann wrote:

> On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 12:10 PM, David Friedman
> <ddfr at daviddfriedman.com> wrote:
>> I don't suppose you could persuade the relevant authorities to find a period
>> label for what they want to do?
> 
> "Collation", meaning a light meal, dates back to the 16th century.
> 
> Brighid ni Chiarain

From johnnae at mac.com  Mon Jan 28 10:36:26 2013
From: johnnae at mac.com (Johnna Holloway)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 13:36:26 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Estonian food
In-Reply-To: <CALE-c-1aaAeWJC6x7Z6hsNO-eiZr-7TY+h=2KOw-12RhKmWvDQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALE-c-1aaAeWJC6x7Z6hsNO-eiZr-7TY+h=2KOw-12RhKmWvDQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8CD3C5A1-30BC-4820-9A7B-B675B6189E4E@mac.com>

Estonia is featured in a chapter in the book:
Medieval Food Traditions in Northern Europe. Edited by Sabine Karg. Copenhagen: National Museum of Denmark, 2007. (National Museum Studies in Archaeology & History volume 12.) Botanical lists of plants gleaned from various sites. Hanseatic Germany, Estonia, and Northern Poland; medieval Finland; Sweden and the Hanse; also medieval Denmark; and Norway. 

You might find it of interest. 

Johnnae

On Jan 28, 2013, at 8:02 AM, Stephanie Ross wrote:

> I had the great fortune to have visited the country of Estonia twice since
> 2008. snipped

From johnnae at mac.com  Mon Jan 28 10:50:44 2013
From: johnnae at mac.com (Johnna Holloway)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 13:50:44 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Olde Hansa was Estonian food
In-Reply-To: <CALE-c-1aaAeWJC6x7Z6hsNO-eiZr-7TY+h=2KOw-12RhKmWvDQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALE-c-1aaAeWJC6x7Z6hsNO-eiZr-7TY+h=2KOw-12RhKmWvDQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <044BDC29-BE06-4E59-AF3F-6A70E85E5AF9@mac.com>

Cooks Con 2 or more properly European Cooking from Rome to the Renaissance which was held back in January 2002
had a session on the Olde Hansa Restaurant.

Titled "A Medieval Restaurant in the 20th and 21st Centuries" by Judy Gerjuoy. That's Mistress Jaelle. She actually helped with the development of the restaurant.

We discussed their website and menu quite  bit back in 2004.

http://www.oldehansa.org/

Johnnae


On Jan 28, 2013, at 8:02 AM, Stephanie Ross wrote:

> I had the great fortune to have visited the country of Estonia twice since
> 2008. snipped There is a medieval
> restaurant there called Olde Hansa, after the Hanseatic League that ruled
> Estonia and the Nordic countries during the late middle ages (
> www.oldehansa.ee). The restaurant also has a bakery that serves meat pies
> for take away - the carrot and parsnip one was divine and unusual. I loved
> walking down the cobblestone street eating a hot meatpie fresh from the
> oven. snipped
> AEschwynne

From ddfr at daviddfriedman.com  Mon Jan 28 11:17:16 2013
From: ddfr at daviddfriedman.com (David Friedman)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 20:17:16 +0100
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Queens Tea
In-Reply-To: <A1AFEF21-B8AC-43DA-BE69-64AD7692554D@mac.com>
References: <1359334201.5684.YahooMailNeo@web162105.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
	<5106B112.9070502@daviddfriedman.com>
	<CA+tVTML9mRBUuGteZz39O4v9f1nS2Cv=9LNw1ZLu9Y-Gnh5R4g@mail.gmail.com>
	<A1AFEF21-B8AC-43DA-BE69-64AD7692554D@mac.com>
Message-ID: <5106CEBC.7090200@daviddfriedman.com>


On 1/28/13 7:24 PM, Johnna Holloway wrote:
> Tea shows up right on the boundary line.
> According to OED-
> the plant
> [1598   W. Phillip tr. J. H. van Linschoten [Disc. Voy. E. & W. Indies  i. xxvi. 46/1]   The aforesaid warme water is made with the powder of a certaine hearbe called Chaa.]
> the drink
> [1601   R. Johnson tr. G. Botero [Travellers Breviat  (1603) 216]   Water mixt with a certaine precious powder which they [the Japanese] use, they account a daintie beverage: they call it Chia.
That's the word "tea." But it's describing its use outside of Europe, so 
it isn't evidence that tea was being drunk in Europe by 1600.
>
> Tea as "A meal or social entertainment at which tea is served" is mid 18th century."
Source? The traditional story  makes it 19th century, and I don't have 
my OED ready to hand.

-- 
David/Cariadoc
www.daviddfriedman.com
http://daviddfriedman.blogspot.com/


From ddfr at daviddfriedman.com  Mon Jan 28 11:19:12 2013
From: ddfr at daviddfriedman.com (David Friedman)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 20:19:12 +0100
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Olde Hansa was Estonian food
In-Reply-To: <044BDC29-BE06-4E59-AF3F-6A70E85E5AF9@mac.com>
References: <CALE-c-1aaAeWJC6x7Z6hsNO-eiZr-7TY+h=2KOw-12RhKmWvDQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<044BDC29-BE06-4E59-AF3F-6A70E85E5AF9@mac.com>
Message-ID: <5106CF30.4010305@daviddfriedman.com>


On 1/28/13 7:50 PM, Johnna Holloway wrote:
> Cooks Con 2 or more properly European Cooking from Rome to the Renaissance which was held back in January 2002
> had a session on the Olde Hansa Restaurant.
>
> Titled "A Medieval Restaurant in the 20th and 21st Centuries" by Judy Gerjuoy. That's Mistress Jaelle. She actually helped with the development of the restaurant.
Or at least tried to.

As best I could tell, the proprietor was a chef and not inclined to use 
the recipes Jaelle provided, preferring to invent his own. Again, that 
was some years back--I went with Jaelle.

-- 
David/Cariadoc
www.daviddfriedman.com
http://daviddfriedman.blogspot.com/


From cmupythia at cmu.edu  Mon Jan 28 12:20:05 2013
From: cmupythia at cmu.edu (Gretchen R Beck)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 20:20:05 +0000
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Queens Tea
In-Reply-To: <5106CEBC.7090200@daviddfriedman.com>
References: <1359334201.5684.YahooMailNeo@web162105.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
	<5106B112.9070502@daviddfriedman.com>
	<CA+tVTML9mRBUuGteZz39O4v9f1nS2Cv=9LNw1ZLu9Y-Gnh5R4g@mail.gmail.com>
	<A1AFEF21-B8AC-43DA-BE69-64AD7692554D@mac.com>,
	<5106CEBC.7090200@daviddfriedman.com>
Message-ID: <56DDB644A1AF6E4CB5CF6CB8B50FCDB401764A5B@PGH-MSGMB-03.andrew.ad.cmu.edu>

OED has:

4.

 
 a. A meal or social entertainment at which tea is served; esp. an ordinary afternoon or evening meal, at which the usual beverage is tea (but sometimes cocoa, chocolate, coffee, or other substitute). Now usu. a light meal in the late afternoon, but locally in the U.K. (esp. northern), and in Australia and N.Z., a cooked evening meal; in Jamaica, the first meal of the day. high tea, meat tea: see high adj. and n.2 Special uses 2, meat n. Compounds 2 tea and turn-out: see turn-out n. 7b.
1738   Swift Compl. Coll. Genteel Conversat. p. ii,   Whether they meet..at Meals, Tea, or Visits.
1778   F. Burney Evelina I. xxvi. 213,   I was relieved by a summons to tea.
1789   J. Wesley Wks. (1872) IV. 453   At breakfast and at tea, on these two days, I met all the Society.

toodles, margaret
________________________________________
From: sca-cooks-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org [sca-cooks-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org] on behalf of David Friedman [ddfr at daviddfriedman.com]
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2013 2:17 PM
To: Cooks within the SCA
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Queens Tea

On 1/28/13 7:24 PM, Johnna Holloway wrote:
> Tea shows up right on the boundary line.
> According to OED-
> the plant
> [1598   W. Phillip tr. J. H. van Linschoten [Disc. Voy. E. & W. Indies  i. xxvi. 46/1]   The aforesaid warme water is made with the powder of a certaine hearbe called Chaa.]
> the drink
> [1601   R. Johnson tr. G. Botero [Travellers Breviat  (1603) 216]   Water mixt with a certaine precious powder which they [the Japanese] use, they account a daintie beverage: they call it Chia.
That's the word "tea." But it's describing its use outside of Europe, so
it isn't evidence that tea was being drunk in Europe by 1600.
>
> Tea as "A meal or social entertainment at which tea is served" is mid 18th century."
Source? The traditional story  makes it 19th century, and I don't have
my OED ready to hand.

--
David/Cariadoc
www.daviddfriedman.com
http://daviddfriedman.blogspot.com/

_______________________________________________
Sca-cooks mailing list
Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org

From johnnae at mac.com  Mon Jan 28 12:29:52 2013
From: johnnae at mac.com (Johnna Holloway)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 15:29:52 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Queens Tea
In-Reply-To: <5106CEBC.7090200@daviddfriedman.com>
References: <1359334201.5684.YahooMailNeo@web162105.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
	<5106B112.9070502@daviddfriedman.com>
	<CA+tVTML9mRBUuGteZz39O4v9f1nS2Cv=9LNw1ZLu9Y-Gnh5R4g@mail.gmail.com>
	<A1AFEF21-B8AC-43DA-BE69-64AD7692554D@mac.com>
	<5106CEBC.7090200@daviddfriedman.com>
Message-ID: <A0427D1E-D10B-4A07-9247-1004BDE7F341@mac.com>

That's correct. I was just pointing out tea was appearing in English printed books at that time. First in accounts and then the actual substance arrives before 1615.

OED cited this quotation first under the definition mentioned before, namely, " A meal or social entertainment at which tea is served."

1738   Jonathan Swift A complete collection of genteel and ingenious conversation (Polite conversation) 1731?38 (1738; Wks. 1738 VI) p. ii,   Whether they meet..at Meals, Tea, or Visits.

The article about tea in the 18th century to see might be

http://thehistoricfoodie.wordpress.com/2012/04/17/a-bit-on-tea-in-the-18th-

See also

https://www.lib.umn.edu/bell/tradeproducts/tea

Johnnae

Sent from my iPad

On Jan 28, 2013, at 2:17 PM, David Friedman <ddfr at daviddfriedman.com> wrote:

> 
> On 1/28/13 7:24 PM, Johnna Holloway wrote:
>> Tea shows up right on the boundary line.
>> According to OED-
>> the plant
>> [1598   W. Phillip tr. J. H. van Linschoten [Disc. Voy. E. & W. Indies  i. xxvi. 46/1]   The aforesaid warme water is made with the powder of a certaine hearbe called Chaa.]
>> the drink
>> [1601   R. Johnson tr. G. Botero [Travellers Breviat  (1603) 216]   Water mixt with a certaine precious powder which they [the Japanese] use, they account a daintie beverage: they call it Chia.
> That's the word "tea." But it's describing its use outside of Europe, so it isn't evidence that tea was being drunk in Europe by 1600.
>> 
>> Tea as "A meal or social entertainment at which tea is served" is mid 18th century."
> Source? The traditional story  makes it 19th century, and I don't have my OED ready to hand.
> 
> -- 
> David/Cariadoc
> www.daviddfriedman.com
> http://daviddfriedman.blogspot.com/
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org

From t.d.decker at att.net  Mon Jan 28 12:31:01 2013
From: t.d.decker at att.net (Terry Decker)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 14:31:01 -0600
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Queens Tea
In-Reply-To: <A1AFEF21-B8AC-43DA-BE69-64AD7692554D@mac.com>
References: <1359334201.5684.YahooMailNeo@web162105.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><5106B112.9070502@daviddfriedman.com><CA+tVTML9mRBUuGteZz39O4v9f1nS2Cv=9LNw1ZLu9Y-Gnh5R4g@mail.gmail.com>
	<A1AFEF21-B8AC-43DA-BE69-64AD7692554D@mac.com>
Message-ID: <E84127CD61E240E6A13EC76070122648@TerryPC>

Let me say that this is the knowledge of tea, not necessarily the drinking 
of tea.  The first commercial shipment of tea of which I have knowledge 
arrived in the Netherlands in 1610.  Tea in general use in Europe is 
somewhat later.

Bear


----- Original Message ----- 

Tea shows up right on the boundary line.
According to OED-
the plant
[1598   W. Phillip tr. J. H. van Linschoten [Disc. Voy. E. & W. Indies  i. 
xxvi. 46/1]   The aforesaid warme water is made with the powder of a 
certaine hearbe called Chaa.]
the drink
[1601   R. Johnson tr. G. Botero [Travellers Breviat  (1603) 216]   Water 
mixt with a certaine precious powder which they [the Japanese] use, they 
account a daintie beverage: they call it Chia.

Tea as "A meal or social entertainment at which tea is served" is mid 18th 
century."

Johnnae


From christianetrue at earthlink.net  Mon Jan 28 13:27:11 2013
From: christianetrue at earthlink.net (Christiane)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 16:27:11 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Cicera fracta, farinata
Message-ID: <32080190.1359408431907.JavaMail.root@elwamui-mouette.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

In researching gluten-free, grain-free period dishes for my Laurel to eat, I came across this entry from the Liber de coquina:

Item, aliter : accipe cicera fracta et pone ad decoquendum cum
oleo, pipere et safrano et cum caseo detruncato et ouis perditis et ouis
debatutis; uel aliter, cum ciceris fractis et perbullitis et, aqua bullitionis
eiecta, ponatur cepa frissa et bene confecta cum lardo uel oleo sicut dies
exigit.

This one seems to be two recipes for "broken" chickpeas. I know the "galettes of chickpeas" recipe on the Old Cooks page uses whole chickpeas, cooked and then mashed into a paste, and the paste is baked in an oiled dish. But I have been wondering if chickpea flour would be an acceptable substitute in a redaction of this recipe? Also, what kind of cheese are they calling for here in the first part of the recipe? Can't seem to find a translation of "detruncato." Google translate says "detruncato" means "beheaded," and I am not sure "beheaded cheese" is quite what the recipe is trying to say. Unless the intent is "cut up" cheese.

In looking up modern-day recipes using chickpea flour, I have found farinata (Genoese), socca (from Nice), and pannelle (Sicilian sort-of-falafel). I have been messing around with my own version of farinata. It's phenomenally easy to prepare because you don't have to cook and mash up chickpeas (though you have to let the batter sit for at least three hours and skim off the icky foam that develops). Chickpea flour is also pretty cheap. I just pour the batter in a dish, plop in other ingredients, generously pepper and salt it, and bake for 20 minutes.

So for your delectation:

Farinata with bacon, goat cheese, and caramelized onions

2 3/4 cups of chickpea flour
4 cups of cold water
one onion
half a rasher of bacon
1 small log of goat cheese (or half of a large log)
salt
pepper

Oven at 375F.


Put your flour into a large measuring cup and add the water; stir with a fork until water and flour are well blended, then cover the measuring cup and let sit for at least 3 hours.

Meanwhile, chop up your half-rasher of bacon into small pieces, fry the pieces until crisp, and set then aside to drain.

For the onion, either fry the thin slices in the bacon drippings, or use olive oil. Once the onions are caramelized, set them aside.

After three hours, you'll notice that the batter is all foamy and separated. Skim the foam from the top of the batter and then remix the batter. Pour the batter into a greased rectangular baking dish. The batter is thin, like pancake batter. Sprinkle the cooked bacon, the onions, and blobs of goat cheese on top of the batter. Dust with plenty of black pepper and a generous sprinkling of salt.

Stick the dish into the oven and bake for 20 minutes. It's done when the sides are just browned and the top is firm. You may want to broil it for another 10 minutes to get the top very browned, or not (I prefer not). 

Let it cool for a few minutes before cutting it up into squares. Can be served hot or lukewarm. Can be carried in the hand and eaten, making it a great dayboard or picnic food. You can make it totally vegan, with no cheese or bacon or eggs (just onions, saffron, salt, and pepper, or add vegetables such as finely chopped spinach or chard). Instead of goat cheese, you can use a fresh cheese like farmers' cheese. You can even use grated parmesan. 

My next version (for breakfasts this week) will feature turkey bacon, beaten eggs, goat cheese, artichoke hearts, and spinach. 

YIS,
Adelisa
 





From rcarrollmann at gmail.com  Mon Jan 28 13:44:10 2013
From: rcarrollmann at gmail.com (Robin Carroll-Mann)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 16:44:10 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Cicera fracta, farinata
In-Reply-To: <32080190.1359408431907.JavaMail.root@elwamui-mouette.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <32080190.1359408431907.JavaMail.root@elwamui-mouette.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <CA+tVTMJmZS8ijSt6ZwA11KyL3g6GtOe0LMZudLJM7TG=3Upm6g@mail.gmail.com>

I wonder if this isn't referring to split chickpeas.  As for the
cheese, I'm not a Latinist, but Googling found a site or two that
defined 'detruncato' as 'cut into pieces'.

Brighid ni Chiarain

From johnnae at mac.com  Mon Jan 28 14:21:20 2013
From: johnnae at mac.com (Johnna Holloway)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 17:21:20 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Kitchen Round Table
Message-ID: <B8BFC4CD-6FE2-4F0B-BE7C-0F9504963563@mac.com>

Betty Fussell, Judith Jones, Lidia Bastianich, Madhur Jaffrey, and Deb Perelman are the five prominent authors/editors/restaurateurs featured on the new Kitchen Round Table audio pro?gram hosted by chef Marja Samsom, who ran The Kitchen Club restaurant in New York City for some 20 years. All of these accomplished women spend their lives engaging others, both with their words and the foods they cook. Their fans often view them as friends. Samson honors that relationship by inviting listeners into this lively kitchen table conversation. 
Download or cd available here

http://www.audiogo.com/us/kitchen-round-table-marja-samsom-gid-81431

Johnnae

From dephelps at embarqmail.com  Mon Jan 28 16:07:36 2013
From: dephelps at embarqmail.com (Daniel And elizabeth phelps)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 19:07:36 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Queens Tea
In-Reply-To: <E84127CD61E240E6A13EC76070122648@TerryPC>
Message-ID: <1763592301.1611270.1359418056740.JavaMail.root@md11.embarq.synacor.com>

Perhaps the solution to the problem is to go Oriental,Japanese perhaps?

Daniel

----- Original Message -----
Let me say that this is the knowledge of tea, not necessarily the drinking 
of tea.  The first commercial shipment of tea of which I have knowledge 
arrived in the Netherlands in 1610.  Tea in general use in Europe is 
somewhat later.

Bear


----- Original Message ----- 

Tea shows up right on the boundary line.
According to OED-
the plant
[1598   W. Phillip tr. J. H. van Linschoten [Disc. Voy. E. & W. Indies  i. 
xxvi. 46/1]   The aforesaid warme water is made with the powder of a 
certaine hearbe called Chaa.]
the drink
[1601   R. Johnson tr. G. Botero [Travellers Breviat  (1603) 216]   Water 
mixt with a certaine precious powder which they [the Japanese] use, they 
account a daintie beverage: they call it Chia.

Tea as "A meal or social entertainment at which tea is served" is mid 18th 
century."

Johnnae

_______________________________________________
Sca-cooks mailing list
Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org

From lcm at jeffnet.org  Mon Jan 28 17:02:29 2013
From: lcm at jeffnet.org (Laura C. Minnick)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 17:02:29 -0800
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Queens Tea
In-Reply-To: <CA+tVTML9mRBUuGteZz39O4v9f1nS2Cv=9LNw1ZLu9Y-Gnh5R4g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1359334201.5684.YahooMailNeo@web162105.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
	<5106B112.9070502@daviddfriedman.com>
	<CA+tVTML9mRBUuGteZz39O4v9f1nS2Cv=9LNw1ZLu9Y-Gnh5R4g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <51071FA5.6040202@jeffnet.org>

On 1/28/2013 9:51 AM, Robin Carroll-Mann wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 12:10 PM, David Friedman
> <ddfr at daviddfriedman.com> wrote:
>> I don't suppose you could persuade the relevant authorities to find a period
>> label for what they want to do?
> "Collation", meaning a light meal, dates back to the 16th century.
>
>
Goes back much further than that. 'Collation' began in the 9th century, 
as a Lenten practice. The monks were allowed a drink of water and a 
light snack (called the Parvitas materiae) after labor, while listening 
to a reading of a text of the _Collationes_ (Conferences) of an early 
Christian monk named Cassian. How and when this practice became 
associated with women in frilly garments sipping tea, I don't know.

Liutgard, who sees Ash Wednesday on the horizon and beginning the Lenten 
whining early
-- 
"It is our choices Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our 
abilities." -Albus Dumbledore ~~~Follow my Queenly perambulations at: 
http://slugcrossings.blogspot.com/

From galefridus at optimum.net  Mon Jan 28 17:35:07 2013
From: galefridus at optimum.net (Galefridus Peregrinus)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 20:35:07 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Olde Hansa was Estonian food
In-Reply-To: <mailman.101912.1359400756.34820.sca-cooks-ansteorra.org@lists.ansteorra.org>
References: <mailman.101912.1359400756.34820.sca-cooks-ansteorra.org@lists.ansteorra.org>
Message-ID: <76B760E0-A325-4E47-8897-8E63D1410696@optimum.net>

Interestingly, there was another paper by Judy Gerjoy/Mistress Jaelle presented during the 2005 Oxford Symposium on Food and Cookery, Authenticity in the Kitchen, titled "Running a 15th Century Restaurant in the 21st Century." This later article addresses a lot of these questions and includes explanations as to where and why the Olde Hansa menu departs from historical recipes and cooking techniques.

-- Galefridus

> Message: 9
> Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 20:19:12 +0100
> From: David Friedman <ddfr at daviddfriedman.com>
> To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Olde Hansa was Estonian food
> Message-ID: <5106CF30.4010305 at daviddfriedman.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> 
> 
> On 1/28/13 7:50 PM, Johnna Holloway wrote:
>> Cooks Con 2 or more properly European Cooking from Rome to the Renaissance which was held back in January 2002
>> had a session on the Olde Hansa Restaurant.
>> 
>> Titled "A Medieval Restaurant in the 20th and 21st Centuries" by Judy Gerjuoy. That's Mistress Jaelle. She actually helped with the development of the restaurant.
> Or at least tried to.
> 
> As best I could tell, the proprietor was a chef and not inclined to use 
> the recipes Jaelle provided, preferring to invent his own. Again, that 
> was some years back--I went with Jaelle.
> 
> -- 
> David/Cariadoc
> www.daviddfriedman.com
> http://daviddfriedman.blogspot.com/
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org
> 
> 
> End of Sca-cooks Digest, Vol 81, Issue 37
> *****************************************

From johnnae at mac.com  Mon Jan 28 18:25:26 2013
From: johnnae at mac.com (Johnna Holloway)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 21:25:26 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Olde Hansa was Estonian food
In-Reply-To: <76B760E0-A325-4E47-8897-8E63D1410696@optimum.net>
References: <mailman.101912.1359400756.34820.sca-cooks-ansteorra.org@lists.ansteorra.org>
	<76B760E0-A325-4E47-8897-8E63D1410696@optimum.net>
Message-ID: <0C0DD809-0B38-4F37-B150-40F04F8BB0AB@mac.com>

Authenticity in the Kitchen is up on Google Books now. the article starts on
page 201.

Johnnae

On Jan 28, 2013, at 8:35 PM, Galefridus Peregrinus wrote:

> Interestingly, there was another paper by Judy Gerjoy/Mistress Jaelle presented during the 2005 Oxford Symposium on Food and Cookery, Authenticity in the Kitchen, titled "Running a 15th Century Restaurant in the 21st Century." This later article addresses a lot of these questions and includes explanations as to where and why the Olde Hansa menu departs from historical recipes and cooking techniques.
> 
> -- Galefridus

From JIMCHEVAL at aol.com  Mon Jan 28 19:24:59 2013
From: JIMCHEVAL at aol.com (JIMCHEVAL at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 22:24:59 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Queens Tea
Message-ID: <e43c.6d174e18.3e389b0b@aol.com>

Actually, in French it goes back much further than that:

"Ca 1200  collatioun ? conf?rence du soir apr?s laquelle les moines 
prenaient un repas  l?ger ?; ici prob. trad. des Collationes de Cassien, v. plus 
bas (NICOLE, R?gle  de Saint-Beno?t, 2432, H?ron ds R. Hist. litt. Fr., t. 6, 
p. 460 [Legat unus  Collationes])''

It takes its name from the evening conference which it  followed.
 
Otherwise, if tea was first mentioned in 1598 (the late 16th century), that 
 hardly puts it on the border with the medieval era, no?

Jim  Chevallier
www.chezjim.com

Newly translated from Pierre Jean-Baptiste  Le Grand d'Aussy:
Eggs, Cheese and Butter in Old Regime France 

In a  message dated 1/28/2013 9:51:54 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,  
rcarrollmann at gmail.com writes:
"Collation", meaning a light meal, dates back  to the 16th century. 
 

From lilinah at earthlink.net  Mon Jan 28 19:51:04 2013
From: lilinah at earthlink.net (lilinah at earthlink.net)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 22:51:04 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Queens Tea
Message-ID: <14982746.1359431464818.JavaMail.root@elwamui-darkeyed.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

sassyredhead39 at yahoo.com wrote:
> I will be hosting my first Queens Tea in April. I am looking for some ideas...what have 
> you done for a Tea...what worked what didn't...period foods...elegant foods...mixture of 
> foods?? All ideas welcome!

Trying to replace the phrase "Queen's Tea" or "Princess's Tea" seems extremely difficult, even though tea was not drunk in Europe or the Middle East within SCA period. I will be happy to accept any of several other suggestions that have been broached in my own Kingdom and no longer hear such mini-social events with food called "Tea".

Is there a particular time or cultural focus for the "Tea", the larger event surrounding it, or your Royals?

Is your "Tea" held indoors or outdoors? What is the nature of the event as a whole?

Where i live nearly all our Kingdom level events, and most of our Principality events, are outdoors, so foods need to be pre-prepared for the most part, and need to keep from, say, Friday night to Saturday afternoon without spoiling.

Are there servers? Or will guests be helping themselves modern buffet style?

If modern buffet style, foods need to be in small portions, preferably pre-made, or else sliced or cut before serving. And, of course, you will need serving dishes.

Will guests be bringing their own feast gear? Will you be supplying paper plates? Or something else?

Is this something of an after-lunch event? Or will some people be likely to have missed lunch?

This will determine if it is to be mostly sweets or a mix of sweet and savory. Depending on the weather, fresh fruit might be a nice addition. Whole fruits (things like apples, pears, oranges, etc.) are a bit much, so it is nice if they are cut into smaller pieces. Bathing apples and pears in lemon juice or a citric acid solution will keep them from oxidizing and turning a less-appealing brown.

How will beverages be served? Pitchers? Larger beverage dispensers with a spigot toward their bottoms?

I would recommend having plenty of nice clean water and some light fruity beverages. Tea would be very inappropriate and coffee only made it to Istanbul in the mid-16th c. and not to Europe until the 17th c., so it, too, is inappropriate if you want to provide only period foods. While not typically European as far as i know, beverages made from fruit syrups (sharbat) were served warm in al-Andalus (which was, after all, in Europe) if you feel the need for hot beverages.

Are you providing cups? Or are people expected to bring their own?

Is is pot-luck style, or is a select group of individuals bringing food, or is a particular group like a cooks' guild preparing the food?

The 16th century has recipes for cookie-like items, usually called small cakes. There are other things that can be made in individual molds - press in some pie crust dough, fill with chosen filling, bake, cool, serve.

I like to bring savory tarts for which there are many period recipes - these are generally composed of eggs, cheese, and fresh greens and/or herbs. I purchased a pie slicer, which makes cutting even-sized pieces easy - these are metal rings with either 6 or 8 "blades" attached - you just press it into the pie and voila! Or bake in a rectangular pan and cut in small rectangles.

Urtatim (that's oor-tah-TEEM)

From StefanliRous at austin.rr.com  Mon Jan 28 19:56:09 2013
From: StefanliRous at austin.rr.com (Stefan li Rous)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 21:56:09 -0600
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Estonian food
Message-ID: <2F08F33A-B8D0-4EBF-A2EB-48F620597CAF@austin.rr.com>

<<< We had something very similar to what you described in Swedish food (Sweden
ruled Estonia and Latvia and Lituany under many years), it's called
"kroppkakor". It's made with potatos, as a kind of big Italian gnocchi or
dumpling. It's filled with ground meat and it taste wonderful.

http://www.food.com/recipe/swedish-kroppkakor-61420

http://kokblog.johannak.com/58/

Ana >>>

I'm assuming that this recipe is likely post-period (later than 1600 CE) since it includes potatoes. Although they were known in Spain, I doubt they were known as far away as Estonia. Or is this actually an older recipe that used something other than potatoes originally?

Stefan

--------
THLord Stefan li Rous    Barony of Bryn Gwlad    Kingdom of Ansteorra
   Mark S. Harris           Austin, Texas          StefanliRous at austin.rr.com
http://www.linkedin.com/in/marksharris
**** See Stefan's Florilegium files at:  http://www.florilegium.org ****







From JIMCHEVAL at aol.com  Mon Jan 28 19:57:34 2013
From: JIMCHEVAL at aol.com (JIMCHEVAL at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 22:57:34 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Queens Tea
Message-ID: <ed4c.5f63db1f.3e38a2ae@aol.com>

I don't know that the collatio was specifically Lenten; Benedict (6th  
century) established the reading as a regular thing in the Benedictine rule and  
the association with a light refreshment is said to have followed.

_http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_of_Saint_Benedict_ 
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_of_Saint_Benedict) 

_http://books.google.com/books?id=gPaJTL2ZFakC&pg=PA31&dq=collatio+Benedict&
hl=en&sa=X&ei=uEUHUeikN-rjigKyvoG4Bg&ved=0CEIQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=collatio%20
Benedict&f=false_ 
(http://books.google.com/books?id=gPaJTL2ZFakC&pg=PA31&dq=collatio+Benedict&hl=en&sa=X&ei=uEUHUeikN-rjigKyvoG4Bg&ved=0CEIQ6AEwBA#v=one
page&q=collatio%20Benedict&f=false) 
 
One thing's for sure: it's as medieval as medieval can be. And I for one  
think "The Queen's Collatio" has a lovely ring to it.
 
As I wrote one list member privately, hypocras would be the obvious  
refreshment for the event. But pear cider has a long history (St. Radegund drank  
it) and one bishop left a donation for a yearly quaffing of a fennel  drink.

The Franks were fond of wine mixed with wormwood (and maybe honey  to 
offset the absinthe's bitterness). That might be a bit more iffy these days.  But 
you could always push a point and mix some modern absinthe (a liqueur) with 
 wine.
 
Jim  Chevallier
www.chezjim.com

Newly translated from Pierre Jean-Baptiste  Le Grand d'Aussy:
Eggs, Cheese and Butter in Old Regime France  

 
In a message dated 1/28/2013 5:02:40 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,  
lcm at jeffnet.org writes:

Goes  back much further than that. 'Collation' began in the 9th century, 
as a  Lenten practice. 


From JIMCHEVAL at aol.com  Mon Jan 28 20:10:08 2013
From: JIMCHEVAL at aol.com (JIMCHEVAL at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 23:10:08 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Queens Tea
Message-ID: <f046.53648254.3e38a5a0@aol.com>

If period is even a concern here (the event seems ambivalent), a frequent  
post-dinner refreshment starting at least about the time of Hughes Capet was 
the  wafer (oublie), basically a small waffle (and probably a secularized 
form of the  communion wafer). A somewhat lighter version of this was called 
a "cloud"  (nebula/nieulle in old French). These were typically served with 
hypocras after  a meal. Flans also came along quite early, though they 
evolved from a flatcake  to a cream in a pastry shell, possibly passing through a 
pizza-like phase en  route.
 
There seems to be some disagreement about whether a "maistre" was a large  
oublie or a collection of them, but that word appears quite a bit too.
 
Fruit of course was a dessert from the Romans on and never really fell out  
of favor (even Charlemagne had a piece of it after his meal).
 
Jim  Chevallier
www.chezjim.com

Newly translated from Pierre Jean-Baptiste  Le Grand d'Aussy:
Eggs, Cheese and Butter in Old Regime France  

 
In a message dated 1/28/2013 7:51:08 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,  
lilinah at earthlink.net writes:

The 16th  century has recipes for cookie-like items, usually called small 
cakes. There  are other things that can be made in individual molds - press 
in some pie  crust dough, fill with chosen filling, bake, cool,  serve.



From johnnae at mac.com  Mon Jan 28 20:21:22 2013
From: johnnae at mac.com (Johnna Holloway)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 23:21:22 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Queens Tea
In-Reply-To: <e43c.6d174e18.3e389b0b@aol.com>
References: <e43c.6d174e18.3e389b0b@aol.com>
Message-ID: <EC288811-3E0F-4145-A0A7-F2A65EF36A83@mac.com>

But this would be a Queens Tea at an SCA event and the SCA breaks off with 1600.
So we mix medieval with early modern and toss in the Renaissance...

http://www.sca.org/

[PDF] 
A BRIEF INTRODUCTION TO THE SCA - Society for Creative ...

www.sca.org/officers/chatelain/pdf/MarketingFlyer-2side.pdf

http://www.goldenstag.net/MiscSCA/glossary.htm

When we use the word "period", it stretches from roughly 600-1600.
Period -- The historical era used by the SCA as a base for its activities. The SCA period is generally considered 600 AD. to 1600 AD. (The 'starting date' is very open to interpretation, but the ending date is defined in Corpora ...) 

Johnnae

Sent from my iPad

On Jan 28, 2013, at 10:24 PM, JIMCHEVAL at aol.com wrote:

> Otherwise, if tea was first mentioned in 1598 (the late 16th century), that 
> hardly puts it on the border with the medieval era, no?

and
On Jan 28, 2013, at 11:10 PM, JIMCHEVAL at aol.com wrote:

> If period is even a concern here (the event seems ambivalent),

> 
> Jim  Chevallier
> www.chezjim.com
> 
> 

From johnnae at mac.com  Mon Jan 28 20:28:03 2013
From: johnnae at mac.com (Johnna Holloway)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 23:28:03 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Queens Tea
In-Reply-To: <f046.53648254.3e38a5a0@aol.com>
References: <f046.53648254.3e38a5a0@aol.com>
Message-ID: <480AB515-C319-40BB-B925-0CC440E2636A@mac.com>

It could be called the Queens Fest for that matter, but Queen's Tea seems to be
the traditional name. I see that the University of Atlantia actually offers a course called Youth- Making and Serving a Queen's Tea. 
Description
Making and serving a Queen's Tea for youth ages 11-17. The first hour will involve discussions on food and beverage choices and actually making both a beverage and food. The second hour will involve setting up the tea and serving it to invited guests. The class would end with the guests giving their compliments and constructive remarks and finally, the clean up by the students and staff.

Johnnae

From lilinah at earthlink.net  Mon Jan 28 20:56:17 2013
From: lilinah at earthlink.net (lilinah at earthlink.net)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 20:56:17 -0800 (GMT-08:00)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Queens Tea
Message-ID: <18434357.1359435378158.JavaMail.root@elwamui-darkeyed.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

JIMCHEVAL at aol.com wrote:
> One thing's for sure: it's as medieval as medieval can be. And I for one  
> think "The Queen's Collatio" has a lovely ring to it.

It might need some explaining lest some barbarian might think it's a sexual exploit...

Urta... uh, Adamantius
duck, and cover!

From christianetrue at earthlink.net  Tue Jan 29 11:36:31 2013
From: christianetrue at earthlink.net (Christiane)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 14:36:31 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Cicera fracta, farinata
Message-ID: <17179925.1359488191735.JavaMail.root@mswamui-valley.atl.sa.earthlink.net>


>I wonder if this isn't referring to split chickpeas.  As for the
>cheese, I'm not a Latinist, but Googling found a site or two that
>defined 'detruncato' as 'cut into pieces'.
>
>Brighid ni Chiarain

Yes, thank you, the cheese is definitely cut into pieces. And I agree that the chickpeas are split. "Pone ad decoquendum cum oleo" seems to translate into "make a decoction with oil." Something that looks like a decoction? Thick and pasty?

I've found a couple of French redactions of this recipe and they all seem to like the "gallettes" concept. 

Anyway, I'll do a variation with mashed chickpeas mixed with oil, beaten eggs, pepper, and saffron, and layered with sliced hardboiled eggs. That should also be tasty, baked.

Adelisa


From ddfr at daviddfriedman.com  Tue Jan 29 15:26:43 2013
From: ddfr at daviddfriedman.com (David Friedman)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 23:26:43 +0000
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Estonian food
In-Reply-To: <2F08F33A-B8D0-4EBF-A2EB-48F620597CAF@austin.rr.com>
References: <2F08F33A-B8D0-4EBF-A2EB-48F620597CAF@austin.rr.com>
Message-ID: <51085AB3.4090200@daviddfriedman.com>


On 1/29/13 3:56 AM, Stefan li Rous wrote:
> <<< We had something very similar to what you described in Swedish food (Sweden
> ruled Estonia and Latvia and Lituany under many years), it's called
> "kroppkakor". It's made with potatos, as a kind of big Italian gnocchi or
> dumpling. It's filled with ground meat and it taste wonderful.
>
> http://www.food.com/recipe/swedish-kroppkakor-61420
>
> http://kokblog.johannak.com/58/
>
> Ana >>>
>
> I'm assuming that this recipe is likely post-period (later than 1600 CE) since it includes potatoes. Although they were known in Spain, I doubt they were known as far away as Estonia. Or is this actually an older recipe that used something other than potatoes originally?
>
> Stefan
At a slight tangent, there is a 15th century Italian gnocchi recipe (in 
the cookbook my daughter translated--it's on my site). Bread crumbs 
instead of potatoes.

-- 
David Friedman
www.daviddfriedman.com
http://daviddfriedman.blogspot.com/


From lilinah at earthlink.net  Tue Jan 29 18:14:06 2013
From: lilinah at earthlink.net (lilinah at earthlink.net)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 18:14:06 -0800 (GMT-08:00)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Officially serving modern food at SCA events
Message-ID: <1727382.1359512046409.JavaMail.root@elwamui-milano.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

I realize not everyone is interested in being historically accurate in everything they do. That's fine. No one is under that obligation, and people are free to do as they like in their own camps as long as they're wearing some attempt at period clothing, per sca.org.

But it seems to me that when serving food as an official part of an official event, it is much more interesting - and often tastier - to serve historical food rather than modern food. Period food definitely can be yummy. When it isn't, it's usually because the modern cook hasn't quite perfected their interpretation of a dish.

I am also often perplexed when Royalty declare that something modern is "period" during their reign. Then i wonder, how hard IS it to go for a few Saturdays within a 6-month period without some favorite modern food or drink?

Even if someone went to an SCA event EVERY SINGLE Saturday in a year, assuming 52 Saturdays, there would still be 313 other days to enjoy modern stuff.

When i've been rather broke and/or pressed for time, i admit i've sometimes eaten modern food - such as a can of tuna with mayonnaise - while in the confines of my own tent. I would never serve such things at a public or branch dayboard, potluck, feast, etc. And that's also a far cry from declaring, for example, that chocolate brownies are "period" just because i like them. There's plenty more time in a year to enjoy them when not at SCA events.

Urtatim (that's oor-tah-TEEM)
sometimes just a cranky pants

From richenda.du.jardin at gmail.com  Tue Jan 29 18:29:27 2013
From: richenda.du.jardin at gmail.com (Richenda du Jardin)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 18:29:27 -0800
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Officially serving modern food at SCA events
In-Reply-To: <1727382.1359512046409.JavaMail.root@elwamui-milano.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <1727382.1359512046409.JavaMail.root@elwamui-milano.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <51088587.8050908@gmail.com>

I once did a feast for a Newcomer's Event for my local college branch. 
We served two versions of each dish - one spiced for a more medieval 
palate and one spiced for a more modern palate. However, everything, 
including spicing, was documented to period.

People's responses were amazing. A member of the faculty newspaper 
attended the event and couldn't believe we were serving French toast 
(pain perdu), macaroni and cheese (lozenges), and the like and it was 
all medieval and yummy!

One thing a lot of people forget - and sometimes even the cooks forget 
it - is we need to remember who we are feeding. We need to remember 
their palates and take the time to educate them. I moved from a very 
urbane, large group that strongly encourages authenticity in everything 
you want to do and can afford, to a much smaller, more rural group that 
is less arts and sciences-oriented. Soups and roasts are as period as 
they generally want their food to be - give them their potatoes and corn 
and they are happy. So, our fledgling culinary guild has a lot of 
educating to do.

Richenda

On 1/29/2013 6:14 PM, lilinah at earthlink.net wrote:
> I realize not everyone is interested in being historically accurate in everything they do. That's fine. No one is under that obligation, and people are free to do as they like in their own camps as long as they're wearing some attempt at period clothing, per sca.org.
>
> But it seems to me that when serving food as an official part of an official event, it is much more interesting - and often tastier - to serve historical food rather than modern food. Period food definitely can be yummy. When it isn't, it's usually because the modern cook hasn't quite perfected their interpretation of a dish.
>
> I am also often perplexed when Royalty declare that something modern is "period" during their reign. Then i wonder, how hard IS it to go for a few Saturdays within a 6-month period without some favorite modern food or drink?
>
> Even if someone went to an SCA event EVERY SINGLE Saturday in a year, assuming 52 Saturdays, there would still be 313 other days to enjoy modern stuff.
>
> When i've been rather broke and/or pressed for time, i admit i've sometimes eaten modern food - such as a can of tuna with mayonnaise - while in the confines of my own tent. I would never serve such things at a public or branch dayboard, potluck, feast, etc. And that's also a far cry from declaring, for example, that chocolate brownies are "period" just because i like them. There's plenty more time in a year to enjoy them when not at SCA events.
>
> Urtatim (that's oor-tah-TEEM)
> sometimes just a cranky pants
> _______________________________________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org


From phlip at 99main.com  Tue Jan 29 18:39:18 2013
From: phlip at 99main.com (Saint Phlip)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 21:39:18 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Officially serving modern food at SCA events
In-Reply-To: <51088587.8050908@gmail.com>
References: <1727382.1359512046409.JavaMail.root@elwamui-milano.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<51088587.8050908@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAA3uHKxmWwvXZd07O_3Ge7kcpwa6GZOiNuf-wgcAZadXajbbBg@mail.gmail.com>

You know, if you don't advertise, you can actually get away with
serving period foods more easily.
When Avraham and I did our feast, we didn't mention that we were
deliberately not serving beef, so they griped about the peas- no one
noticed there was no beef.

I suspect that if we kept our proud little yaps shut when we're
serving a period feast, and served them lots of rice and legumes,
breads and similar starches, the anti-period dweebs would never know
the difference. Giggle afterwards ;-)

On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 9:29 PM, Richenda du Jardin
<richenda.du.jardin at gmail.com> wrote:
> I once did a feast for a Newcomer's Event for my local college branch. We
> served two versions of each dish - one spiced for a more medieval palate and
> one spiced for a more modern palate. However, everything, including spicing,
> was documented to period.
>
> People's responses were amazing. A member of the faculty newspaper attended
> the event and couldn't believe we were serving French toast (pain perdu),
> macaroni and cheese (lozenges), and the like and it was all medieval and
> yummy!
>
> One thing a lot of people forget - and sometimes even the cooks forget it -
> is we need to remember who we are feeding. We need to remember their palates
> and take the time to educate them. I moved from a very urbane, large group
> that strongly encourages authenticity in everything you want to do and can
> afford, to a much smaller, more rural group that is less arts and
> sciences-oriented. Soups and roasts are as period as they generally want
> their food to be - give them their potatoes and corn and they are happy. So,
> our fledgling culinary guild has a lot of educating to do.
>
> Richenda
>
>
> On 1/29/2013 6:14 PM, lilinah at earthlink.net wrote:
>>
>> I realize not everyone is interested in being historically accurate in
>> everything they do. That's fine. No one is under that obligation, and people
>> are free to do as they like in their own camps as long as they're wearing
>> some attempt at period clothing, per sca.org.
>>
>> But it seems to me that when serving food as an official part of an
>> official event, it is much more interesting - and often tastier - to serve
>> historical food rather than modern food. Period food definitely can be
>> yummy. When it isn't, it's usually because the modern cook hasn't quite
>> perfected their interpretation of a dish.
>>
>> I am also often perplexed when Royalty declare that something modern is
>> "period" during their reign. Then i wonder, how hard IS it to go for a few
>> Saturdays within a 6-month period without some favorite modern food or
>> drink?
>>
>> Even if someone went to an SCA event EVERY SINGLE Saturday in a year,
>> assuming 52 Saturdays, there would still be 313 other days to enjoy modern
>> stuff.
>>
>> When i've been rather broke and/or pressed for time, i admit i've
>> sometimes eaten modern food - such as a can of tuna with mayonnaise - while
>> in the confines of my own tent. I would never serve such things at a public
>> or branch dayboard, potluck, feast, etc. And that's also a far cry from
>> declaring, for example, that chocolate brownies are "period" just because i
>> like them. There's plenty more time in a year to enjoy them when not at SCA
>> events.
>>
>> Urtatim (that's oor-tah-TEEM)
>> sometimes just a cranky pants
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sca-cooks mailing list
>> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
>> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org



-- 
Saint Phlip

So, you think your data is safe?
http://www.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/01/23/schneier.google.hacking/index.html?hpt=T2

Heat it up
Hit it hard
Repent as necessary.

Priorities:

It's the smith who makes the tools, not the tools which make the smith.

.I never wanted to see anybody die, but there are a few obituary
notices I have read with pleasure. -Clarence Darrow

From t.d.decker at att.net  Tue Jan 29 20:34:27 2013
From: t.d.decker at att.net (Terry Decker)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 22:34:27 -0600
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Officially serving modern food at SCA events
In-Reply-To: <51088587.8050908@gmail.com>
References: <1727382.1359512046409.JavaMail.root@elwamui-milano.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<51088587.8050908@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <12137F8799294E44BB8F8A1F77F9EF72@TerryPC>

These days I wonder if period potatoes are being served at feasts in the 
rural reaches of the Outlands.  I have had a presentation entitled "Batatas 
and Papas -- Potatoes and the SCA Feast,"  which is revised every couple of 
years as I find more sources and which contains late period recipes for 
sweet potatoes and white potatoes.  I presented the latest revision at the 
last Known World Cooks and Bards and had a couple of comments from some of 
the good rural folk that the local meat and potatoes crowd were going to be 
having a little more period feast in future.

At the same talk, Duke Cariadoc asked a very interesting question, "When did 
sweet potatoes reach the Islamic world?"  The answer so far, is that it 
appears sweet potatoes arrived in Moslem West Africa as part of the 
Portuguese slave trade early in the 16th Century.  Slightly later, they were 
introduced into India via the spice trade, such that by the early 19th 
Century, they were a major crop in Mughal India.  Introduction into North 
Africa and the Middle East is far more nebulous, but I suspect that it may 
have arrived via the Red Sea and Persian trade.  Other possibilities are by 
caravan from West Africa or via the spice trade from Italy.  I'll make this 
revision when I locate some solid references.

Bear


> Soups and roasts are as period as they generally want their food to be - 
> give them their potatoes and corn and they are happy. So, our fledgling 
> culinary guild has a lot of educating to do.
>
> Richenda


From JIMCHEVAL at aol.com  Tue Jan 29 21:24:51 2013
From: JIMCHEVAL at aol.com (JIMCHEVAL at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 00:24:51 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Cicera fracta,
	farinata /Southern Fried Peacock?/mock capon
Message-ID: <5d03e.73d2b268.3e3a08a3@aol.com>

I don't think fracta here is split (or fractured or anything similar).  
Arnauld de Villeneuve talks about a drink made with "ossa fracta" and I don't  
think split bones would have gone down very well.  Also the Dictionnaire  
Gaffiot says that fractus means "broken, reduced to pieces".  Plus a word  in 
Provencal (faufrach), meaning a soup made of powdered broad beans, turns  
out to be derived from "faba fracta", which is said to mean "broken broad  
beans".
_http://books.google.com/books?id=kGhXAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA218&dq=%22faba+fracta%22
&hl=en&sa=X&ei=upgIUeflAY7vigKysoFQ&ved=0CGgQ6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q=%22faba%20fr
acta%22&f=false_ 
(http://books.google.com/books?id=kGhXAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA218&dq="faba+fracta"&hl=en&sa=X&ei=upgIUeflAY7vigKysoFQ&ved=0CGgQ6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q
="faba%20fracta"&f=false) 

In  fairness, Dalby does translate the latter as "split beans", however.
 
Otherwise, the same document includes an intriguing recipe for peacock (or  
goose), which I read as:
 
"Of the great [most eminent] birds, first of peacocks and geese, roast  
goose or peacock well, and set the pan or another appropriate instrument under  
it to receive the flowing fat. And color it with saffron. Also have the 
juice of  small lemons [?] mixed with sugar, so that it is sweet and sour. 
Then, take a  little bread crumb fried with well beaten egg yolks, mix a little 
of the form  there together [sic], roll the above-said bread crumbs and fry 
them with fresh  bacon in a pan, and roll this bread in the said flavors, 
sprinkle good spices  well ground over it. Then order it set on the terrace in 
pieces. And give it to  eat for capon."
 
25. -- De avibus magnatum, primo de pavone et ansere: pavonem vel anserem  
assa bene; et patellam vel aliud instrumentum conveniens subtus pone, ad  
recipiendum pinguedinem fluentem. Et colora cum safrano. Habeas etiam succum 
de  limoncellis cum zucara mistum, ita quod sit acrum dulce. Deinde, habeas 
micam  panis parum assatam cum vitellis ovorum bene batutis, parum de forma 
ibidem  simul mixa; micam predicti panis involve et suffrige cum lardo 
recenti in  sartagine, et istum panem in predicto sapore involve, bonis speciebus 
bene  trittis desuper sparsis. Deinde ordinatim per solaria in cissorio 
pone. Et da  comedere pro caponibus.  

I can't figure if, despite the lack of a clear direction, the flavored  
bread crumbs are meant to somehow end up on the bird, in which case we would  
have an early mention of something like Souther Fried... Peacock? But maybe 
the  most surprising touch is that this rather expensive bird is supposed to 
be  offered up as the somewhat cheaper capon. (Which again suggests that it 
was  covered with the bread crumbs somehow.
 
 
Jim  Chevallier
www.chezjim.com

Newly translated from Pierre Jean-Baptiste  Le Grand d'Aussy:
Eggs, Cheese and Butter in Old Regime France  

 
In a message dated 1/29/2013 11:36:38 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,  
christianetrue at earthlink.net writes:

And I  agree that the chickpeas are  split.


From online2much at cox.net  Wed Jan 30 04:34:59 2013
From: online2much at cox.net (Terri Morgan)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 07:34:59 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Queens Tea
In-Reply-To: <18434357.1359435378158.JavaMail.root@elwamui-darkeyed.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <18434357.1359435378158.JavaMail.root@elwamui-darkeyed.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <000001cdfee6$389870a0$a9c951e0$@cox.net>

So outside of complaining about the common use of the phrase "Queen's Tea"
for a light sideboard hosted by the Queen... has anyone actually answered
the querent's question about things to serve? I saw one message asking for
more information about the circumstances of the event where the repast is to
be served but nothing else that the hosting cook could use as solid
information. Since Sarah Beth just stepped down as my baroness, I think I
know which event she is referring to so I'm fairly certain this will be held
outdoors at (essentially) a one-day high-pageantry event.

I praised the knowledge and helpfulness of the members of this list to Sarah
Beth and encouraged her to join - please don't make me have to hang my head
the next time I see her in person.*

Hrothny
*Yes, yes, a guilt play. I've been slaving over Things Heraldic for the last
couple of days and just finished a 12-hour session of research, otherwise
I'd jump to it and start searching my recipes for her myself. But first I
absolutely have to get some sleep. So while ya'll are awake, please someone
chime in with some ideas. Pretty please?


From johnnae at mac.com  Wed Jan 30 06:06:51 2013
From: johnnae at mac.com (Johnna Holloway)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 09:06:51 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Queens Tea
In-Reply-To: <000001cdfee6$389870a0$a9c951e0$@cox.net>
References: <18434357.1359435378158.JavaMail.root@elwamui-darkeyed.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<000001cdfee6$389870a0$a9c951e0$@cox.net>
Message-ID: <2A332C89-A7DE-4C42-B309-1D282A2F0F23@mac.com>

I asked all those questions within an hour of the initial query because I think the chosen recipes
and menu depend largely upon the setting, circumstances, and budget. Is it for 12 people or 30?
$100 budget or $50? Transported over 100 miles or just down the street?

I can suggest all sorts of things and they could be highly inappropriate for this event which means my
suggesting them would just be a waste of time. 

Is it to be a meal or a light repast? Cakes and ice tea or hot tea or is it something more akin to a modern cocktail
party where as someone else suggested "They cared as much about the booze as they do about the food. Have good
drinks and plenty of them." 

For instance, for the Fourth Annual Tournament of the Rose held in early June 2002, I prepared
a selection of conceits and delights that included A Jelly of Strawberries, A Summer Dishe, A Cream; Sugar Cakes, Shortbreads, Wafers, Letter Cookies;  Spiced (Dutch Taai-Taai) Cookies; A Great Cake; Sugarpaste and Marchepane Roses; Candies of Lemon Peel, Orange Peel, Blood Orange Peel, Lemon Slices and Orange Segments, Blood Oranges Candied and Dried, Candied Citron, candy of lemon, candy made of oranges, tamarind candy and melon candy; Apples cut into sticks, Candied and Preserved;  Apricot Paste cut into Diamonds and Squares; Rose Preserves; Quince Jam; Marmalade; Sugar Candy Crystals and Comfits; Dried Fruits of Apricots, Cherries, Currants, Dates, Raisins, Figs, and Almonds; and lastly Fresh Fruits of Strawberries, Cherries, Grapes, and Watermelon.
http://www.mkcc.rhawn.com/MKCCfiles/RoseTournament2002Desserts.html

Is this what she wants?

Johnnae

On Jan 30, 2013, at 7:34 AM, Terri Morgan wrote:

> So outside of complaining about the common use of the phrase "Queen's Tea"
> for a light sideboard hosted by the Queen... has anyone actually answered
> the querent's question about things to serve? I saw one message asking for
> more information about the circumstances of the event where the repast is to
> be served but nothing else that the hosting cook could use as solid
> information. Since Sarah Beth just stepped down as my baroness, I think I
> know which event she is referring to so I'm fairly certain this will be held
> outdoors at (essentially) a one-day high-pageantry event.
> 
> I praised the knowledge and helpfulness of the members of this list to Sarah
> Beth and encouraged her to join - please don't make me have to hang my head
> the next time I see her in person.*
> 
> Hrothny
> *Yes, yes, a guilt play. I've been slaving over Things Heraldic for the last
> couple of days and just finished a 12-hour session of research, otherwise
> I'd jump to it and start searching my recipes for her myself. But first I
> absolutely have to get some sleep. So while ya'll are awake, please someone
> chime in with some ideas. Pretty please?

From karobert at unm.edu  Wed Jan 30 06:08:16 2013
From: karobert at unm.edu (Kathleen Roberts)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 14:08:16 +0000
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Officially serving modern food at SCA events
In-Reply-To: <1727382.1359512046409.JavaMail.root@elwamui-milano.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <1727382.1359512046409.JavaMail.root@elwamui-milano.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <AF2F1DA7964D6344A6B72C61AC9AA953050E79BA@CH1PRD0711MB432.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>

Hmmm.... let me put on my pair of cranky pants. ;)

Alcohol consumption determining whether or not to attend an event.   It is getting harder and harder to find liquor service or permission at large feast sites around New Mexico.  It's hard enough to find a venue for a large amount of people, much less with the ability to consume alcohol on site.

Some people don't attend an event because they can't drink at the event.  Forget the good food, forget the fun, just stay home because you can't have a beer.

Don't get me wrong, I drink.  I enjoy my Scotch et. al.  But I can surely stand to be at an event for four to five hours without a drink in my hand.

YMMV

Cailte

Kathleen Roberts

Admissions Advisor

University of New Mexico

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Being Irish, he had an abiding sense of tragedy, which sustained him through temporary periods of joy."  W.B. Yeats



"The hand that rocks the ladle rules the world."  Nadia G.

________________________________________
From: sca-cooks-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org [sca-cooks-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org] on behalf of lilinah at earthlink.net [lilinah at earthlink.net]
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 7:14 PM
To: SCA-Cooks
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Officially serving modern food at SCA events

I realize not everyone is interested in being historically accurate in everything they do. That's fine. No one is under that obligation, and people are free to do as they like in their own camps as long as they're wearing some attempt at period clothing, per sca.org.

But it seems to me that when serving food as an official part of an official event, it is much more interesting - and often tastier - to serve historical food rather than modern food. Period food definitely can be yummy. When it isn't, it's usually because the modern cook hasn't quite perfected their interpretation of a dish.

I am also often perplexed when Royalty declare that something modern is "period" during their reign. Then i wonder, how hard IS it to go for a few Saturdays within a 6-month period without some favorite modern food or drink?

Even if someone went to an SCA event EVERY SINGLE Saturday in a year, assuming 52 Saturdays, there would still be 313 other days to enjoy modern stuff.

When i've been rather broke and/or pressed for time, i admit i've sometimes eaten modern food - such as a can of tuna with mayonnaise - while in the confines of my own tent. I would never serve such things at a public or branch dayboard, potluck, feast, etc. And that's also a far cry from declaring, for example, that chocolate brownies are "period" just because i like them. There's plenty more time in a year to enjoy them when not at SCA events.

Urtatim (that's oor-tah-TEEM)
sometimes just a cranky pants
_______________________________________________
Sca-cooks mailing list
Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org

From carlton_bach at yahoo.de  Wed Jan 30 05:43:12 2013
From: carlton_bach at yahoo.de (Volker Bach)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 13:43:12 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Leeds Symposium 2013
Message-ID: <1359553392.18949.YahooMailNeo@web171704.mail.ir2.yahoo.com>

Salvete,

does anyone know if there is a way to get information on or even register for Leeds 2013 without having the PPC? I have no way of acquiring the latest edition in a timely fashion, and I need to figure out my travel plans for the year soon.

Gratiam ago

Giano

From johnnae at mac.com  Wed Jan 30 06:26:47 2013
From: johnnae at mac.com (Johnna Holloway)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 09:26:47 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Leeds Symposium 2013
In-Reply-To: <1359553392.18949.YahooMailNeo@web171704.mail.ir2.yahoo.com>
References: <1359553392.18949.YahooMailNeo@web171704.mail.ir2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <68EFEFF8-9952-495A-A617-5E21C7201CF1@mac.com>

answered offlist

Johnna

On Jan 30, 2013, at 8:43 AM, Volker Bach wrote:

> Salvete,
> 
> does anyone know if there is a way to get information on or even register for Leeds 2013 without having the PPC? I have no way of acquiring the latest edition in a timely fashion, and I need to figure out my travel plans for the year soon.
> 
> Gratiam ago
> 
> Giano

From lcm at jeffnet.org  Wed Jan 30 08:01:06 2013
From: lcm at jeffnet.org (Laura C. Minnick)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 08:01:06 -0800
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Officially serving modern food at SCA events
In-Reply-To: <AF2F1DA7964D6344A6B72C61AC9AA953050E79BA@CH1PRD0711MB432.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
References: <1727382.1359512046409.JavaMail.root@elwamui-milano.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<AF2F1DA7964D6344A6B72C61AC9AA953050E79BA@CH1PRD0711MB432.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <510943C2.2090201@jeffnet.org>

Are your cranky pants big enough for two?

I encountered this problem a couple of times as an autocrat, and really, 
if you can't go without booze for a few hours, YOU HAVE A PROBLEM. And 
as far as I'm concerned, it should not be my problem.

Liutgard, up to early and not happy about it.

On 1/30/2013 6:08 AM, Kathleen Roberts wrote:
> Hmmm.... let me put on my pair of cranky pants. ;)
>
> Alcohol consumption determining whether or not to attend an event.   It is getting harder and harder to find liquor service or permission at large feast sites around New Mexico.  It's hard enough to find a venue for a large amount of people, much less with the ability to consume alcohol on site.
>
> Some people don't attend an event because they can't drink at the event.  Forget the good food, forget the fun, just stay home because you can't have a beer.
>
> Don't get me wrong, I drink.  I enjoy my Scotch et. al.  But I can surely stand to be at an event for four to five hours without a drink in my hand.
>
> YMMV
>
> Cailte
>
> Kathleen Roberts
>
> Admissions Advisor
>
> University of New Mexico
>
>


-- 
"It is our choices Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our 
abilities." -Albus Dumbledore ~~~Follow my Queenly perambulations at: 
http://slugcrossings.blogspot.com/

From teucer at pobox.com  Wed Jan 30 09:00:59 2013
From: teucer at pobox.com (Craig Daniel)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 12:00:59 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Dry sites (was: Officially serving modern food at SCA
	events)
Message-ID: <CAP=UV6o2gM_UmhfhxEbukBY6Ayi7z3_VWj_bRcHO1Qwju=cdqA@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 9:08 AM, Kathleen Roberts <karobert at unm.edu> wrote:
> Hmmm.... let me put on my pair of cranky pants. ;)
>
> Alcohol consumption determining whether or not to attend an event.   It is getting harder and
> harder to find liquor service or permission at large feast sites around New Mexico.  It's hard
> enough to find a venue for a large amount of people, much less with the ability to consume
> alcohol on site.
>
> Some people don't attend an event because they can't drink at the event.  Forget the good food,
> forget the fun, just stay home because you can't have a beer.
>
> Don't get me wrong, I drink.  I enjoy my Scotch et. al.  But I can surely stand to be at an event
> for four to five hours without a drink in my hand.
>
> YMMV
>
> Cailte

Respectfully, my mileage does vary, and I think putting it in terms
like "forget the good food, forget the fun, just stay home because you
can't have a beer" or "you can't go without booze for a few hours" as
an interpretation of why some of us feel wet sites are a must for at
least some events is uncharitable in the extreme. Allow me to weigh in
as somebody who will be staying home from an upcoming event because it
is at a dry site.

I'm not in the SCA to drink. I'm in it to have fun with people by
doing medieval things. I can do that with or without alcohol being
available, and am perfectly willing to attend most events whether or
not they are at wet sites. But at the same time, while I find medieval
food fascinating and delicious (hence reading this list a bunch and
commenting occasionally), it's not my primary A&S activity in the
society. (In fact cooking is a very marginal part of my SCA life. I
don't help cook feasts, because while I have a great deal of gratitude
for those of you who show up to an event, pay a site fee, and then
spend the day in the kitchen, I prefer to be out enjoying other
activities during the day. My hat is off to those of you who do,
though, because the food never fails to be extraordinary and a great
feast serves as a wonderful capstone to any event.)

I am, however, a brewer.

I'm confident I'm in the majority on this list in the fact that my
enjoyment of the society is greatly improved by my ability to share my
work in period arts and sciences. That fact should not be taken as
evidence that I have a drinking problem, any more than the fact that
people on this list enjoy cooking and eating period food means we're
all compulsive overeaters urgently in need of a new diet.

I'm content to only be able to share my art at some of the events I
attend rather than all, just as I don't personally know any fighters
who skip all events without martial activities or cooks who will only
attend an event if there's a kitchen on site. My involvement in the
SCA is quite strongly enhanced by there being wet sites, but it's most
certainly not contingent on all sites being wet, as no single event
should have to be all things to all people. On the other hand, I do
feel that autocrats should (and almost always do! thank you
autocrats!) look for wet or discretely damp sites and should (and
often do! thank you autocrats!) ask sites that don't offer that by
default whether the site contract can be adjusted for our purposes.
I'm aware and understanding of the fact that they will not always be
able to achieve this, of course, and I won't be kept away from most
events by the fact that it's not always possible.

(The exception is Atlantia's upcoming Kingdom Arts and Sciences
festival, a day specifically dedicated to showing off your A&S
activities as long as they aren't that one. I thought about going and
decided not to. That's not because there's something horribly wrong
with such an event happening, mind, it just doesn't appeal to me; I
imagine most cooks would feel the same about an A&S event at a site
which prohibited food - especially as every event I go to requires
tweaking my work schedule, which is heavy on the Saturdays.)

But even though I can have a great time at an SCA event without
drinking a drop, the words "dry site" do somewhat reduce my desire to
attend a particular event, simply because they mean I can't share the
latest cool things I've made. (Brewing isn't my only A&S activity, but
it's hard to spread my excitement about having recently translated a
cool new poem.) For me, at least, it's not a matter of having a
crippling alcohol addiction that prevents me from getting through a
Saturday without a drink in my hand, or of choosing to stay home and
drink beer over enjoying the company of great people with a shared
interest in medieval and Renaissance history. But I do want the
opportunity to help recreate that history by spreading the enjoyment
of my particular art. Is there something wrong with this desire now?

Yes, I go to events at dry sites, but yes, I would enjoy myself more
if they were not dry. Please do not dismiss this preference by telling
me I have a problem and it should not be your problem.

 - Jaume de Mon??

From karobert at unm.edu  Wed Jan 30 09:25:16 2013
From: karobert at unm.edu (Kathleen Roberts)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 17:25:16 +0000
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Dry sites (was: Officially serving modern food at
 SCA	events)
In-Reply-To: <CAP=UV6o2gM_UmhfhxEbukBY6Ayi7z3_VWj_bRcHO1Qwju=cdqA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAP=UV6o2gM_UmhfhxEbukBY6Ayi7z3_VWj_bRcHO1Qwju=cdqA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AF2F1DA7964D6344A6B72C61AC9AA953050E7AB0@CH1PRD0711MB432.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>

Well said.  I was in no way inferring that there was some addictive problems, just expressing frustration with the people I have known who have actually said that to my face and didn't come to the event that someone worked so hard on for so long.  

I have missed events because the feast/theme just didn't interest me in general, or the weather was nasty, or because I knew that particular cook and did not like their "style", or I had other things to do with my money.  There are lots of reasons not to attend any event.  I would find someone not attending because someone was serving seafood (with no allergies) and loudly proclaiming it equally frustrating.

Apologies if anyone misunderstood.

Cailte

Kathleen Roberts

Admissions Advisor

University of New Mexico

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Being Irish, he had an abiding sense of tragedy, which sustained him through temporary periods of joy."  W.B. Yeats



"The hand that rocks the ladle rules the world."  Nadia G.

________________________________________
From: sca-cooks-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org [sca-cooks-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org] on behalf of Craig Daniel [teucer at pobox.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 10:00 AM
To: Cooks within the SCA
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Dry sites (was: Officially serving modern food at SCA      events)

On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 9:08 AM, Kathleen Roberts <karobert at unm.edu> wrote:
> Hmmm.... let me put on my pair of cranky pants. ;)
>
> Alcohol consumption determining whether or not to attend an event.   It is getting harder and
> harder to find liquor service or permission at large feast sites around New Mexico.  It's hard
> enough to find a venue for a large amount of people, much less with the ability to consume
> alcohol on site.
>
> Some people don't attend an event because they can't drink at the event.  Forget the good food,
> forget the fun, just stay home because you can't have a beer.
>
> Don't get me wrong, I drink.  I enjoy my Scotch et. al.  But I can surely stand to be at an event
> for four to five hours without a drink in my hand.
>
> YMMV
>
> Cailte

Respectfully, my mileage does vary, and I think putting it in terms
like "forget the good food, forget the fun, just stay home because you
can't have a beer" or "you can't go without booze for a few hours" as
an interpretation of why some of us feel wet sites are a must for at
least some events is uncharitable in the extreme. Allow me to weigh in
as somebody who will be staying home from an upcoming event because it
is at a dry site.

I'm not in the SCA to drink. I'm in it to have fun with people by
doing medieval things. I can do that with or without alcohol being
available, and am perfectly willing to attend most events whether or
not they are at wet sites. But at the same time, while I find medieval
food fascinating and delicious (hence reading this list a bunch and
commenting occasionally), it's not my primary A&S activity in the
society. (In fact cooking is a very marginal part of my SCA life. I
don't help cook feasts, because while I have a great deal of gratitude
for those of you who show up to an event, pay a site fee, and then
spend the day in the kitchen, I prefer to be out enjoying other
activities during the day. My hat is off to those of you who do,
though, because the food never fails to be extraordinary and a great
feast serves as a wonderful capstone to any event.)

I am, however, a brewer.

I'm confident I'm in the majority on this list in the fact that my
enjoyment of the society is greatly improved by my ability to share my
work in period arts and sciences. That fact should not be taken as
evidence that I have a drinking problem, any more than the fact that
people on this list enjoy cooking and eating period food means we're
all compulsive overeaters urgently in need of a new diet.

I'm content to only be able to share my art at some of the events I
attend rather than all, just as I don't personally know any fighters
who skip all events without martial activities or cooks who will only
attend an event if there's a kitchen on site. My involvement in the
SCA is quite strongly enhanced by there being wet sites, but it's most
certainly not contingent on all sites being wet, as no single event
should have to be all things to all people. On the other hand, I do
feel that autocrats should (and almost always do! thank you
autocrats!) look for wet or discretely damp sites and should (and
often do! thank you autocrats!) ask sites that don't offer that by
default whether the site contract can be adjusted for our purposes.
I'm aware and understanding of the fact that they will not always be
able to achieve this, of course, and I won't be kept away from most
events by the fact that it's not always possible.

(The exception is Atlantia's upcoming Kingdom Arts and Sciences
festival, a day specifically dedicated to showing off your A&S
activities as long as they aren't that one. I thought about going and
decided not to. That's not because there's something horribly wrong
with such an event happening, mind, it just doesn't appeal to me; I
imagine most cooks would feel the same about an A&S event at a site
which prohibited food - especially as every event I go to requires
tweaking my work schedule, which is heavy on the Saturdays.)

But even though I can have a great time at an SCA event without
drinking a drop, the words "dry site" do somewhat reduce my desire to
attend a particular event, simply because they mean I can't share the
latest cool things I've made. (Brewing isn't my only A&S activity, but
it's hard to spread my excitement about having recently translated a
cool new poem.) For me, at least, it's not a matter of having a
crippling alcohol addiction that prevents me from getting through a
Saturday without a drink in my hand, or of choosing to stay home and
drink beer over enjoying the company of great people with a shared
interest in medieval and Renaissance history. But I do want the
opportunity to help recreate that history by spreading the enjoyment
of my particular art. Is there something wrong with this desire now?

Yes, I go to events at dry sites, but yes, I would enjoy myself more
if they were not dry. Please do not dismiss this preference by telling
me I have a problem and it should not be your problem.

 - Jaume de Mon??
_______________________________________________
Sca-cooks mailing list
Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org

From jo_foster81 at hotmail.com  Wed Jan 30 11:23:24 2013
From: jo_foster81 at hotmail.com (Jo Foster)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 12:23:24 -0700
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Dry sites
In-Reply-To: <CAP=UV6o2gM_UmhfhxEbukBY6Ayi7z3_VWj_bRcHO1Qwju=cdqA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAP=UV6o2gM_UmhfhxEbukBY6Ayi7z3_VWj_bRcHO1Qwju=cdqA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SNT145-W9599B8F55B376C7102AC7F851E0@phx.gbl>


Just to make matters even more fun .... there is this whole area of law pertaining to alcohol.
 
While attempting to find a venue where Eric (Owen ap Howell) and I could have our Chivaree (wedding reception) I was advised of a State of Utah LAW which prohibits the serving of alcohol at any venue were there will be minors present.  While this is a MODERN event ... it does show why so many many many venues in the State of Utah are at DRY DRY DRY sites.
 
Because I have minor children and grandchildren, and HE has minor grandchildren and MANY of our friends have minor children, our Chivaree will not be serving alcohol so that we are in compliance with State Law.  SUCKS .... but there it is.
 
SO in the State of Utah, you can either have the children welcome to attend an event .... but no brewers and no alcohol, or you can exclude children and serve alcohol (and there is a HOST of requirements for the actual serving of alcohol).  
 
Cheers
 
Malkin Allardsen
Otherhill
Artemisia
 
 

Jo (Georgia L.) Foster

 		 	   		  

From colin at mccr.org  Wed Jan 30 12:28:17 2013
From: colin at mccr.org (Colin MacNachtan)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 14:28:17 -0600
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Dry sites
In-Reply-To: <SNT145-W9599B8F55B376C7102AC7F851E0@phx.gbl>
References: <CAP=UV6o2gM_UmhfhxEbukBY6Ayi7z3_VWj_bRcHO1Qwju=cdqA@mail.gmail.com>
	<SNT145-W9599B8F55B376C7102AC7F851E0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <201301301428.17448.colin@mccr.org>

On Wednesday, January 30, 2013, Jo Foster wrote:
> While attempting to find a venue where Eric (Owen ap Howell) and I could
> have our Chivaree (wedding reception) I was advised of a State of Utah LAW
> which prohibits the serving of alcohol at any venue were there will be
> minors present.  While this is a MODERN event ... it does show why so many
> many many venues in the State of Utah are at DRY DRY DRY sites.

I'm curious.  Does this law specifically prohibit only serving of alcohol, or 
does it apply to allowing people to bring their own alcohol?  No SCA event 
I've ever seen has actually served any alcohol.  It's all been individuals 
bringing their own alcohol (which they often share with their friends).

HL Colin MacNachtan
Ansteorra

From susanrlin at gmail.com  Wed Jan 30 14:36:51 2013
From: susanrlin at gmail.com (Susan Lin)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 15:36:51 -0700
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Dry sites
In-Reply-To: <201301301428.17448.colin@mccr.org>
References: <CAP=UV6o2gM_UmhfhxEbukBY6Ayi7z3_VWj_bRcHO1Qwju=cdqA@mail.gmail.com>
	<SNT145-W9599B8F55B376C7102AC7F851E0@phx.gbl>
	<201301301428.17448.colin@mccr.org>
Message-ID: <CAHkO8TRkhRHFSi--FXfwVBpXDUFBxM1X+NTiYxDpycR7QbdEpg@mail.gmail.com>

I believe Copora does not allow any SCA funds to be used for the purchase
of alcohol.  That's why people buy and bring it themselves.  The only
exception we have ever had is if the alcohol is going into cooking.  I was
allowed to purchase beer (okay really cheap beer) to make bread once.  It
wasn't stuff we would have poured into a glass to drink (or drink out of
the can either).

We have a site here that is wet but it is a cash bar at the VFW and you are
not allowed to bring in any outside liquor.  Another distinction to
consider in looking for a site.

Shoshanah

On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 1:28 PM, Colin MacNachtan <colin at mccr.org> wrote:

> On Wednesday, January 30, 2013, Jo Foster wrote:
> > While attempting to find a venue where Eric (Owen ap Howell) and I could
> > have our Chivaree (wedding reception) I was advised of a State of Utah
> LAW
> > which prohibits the serving of alcohol at any venue were there will be
> > minors present.  While this is a MODERN event ... it does show why so
> many
> > many many venues in the State of Utah are at DRY DRY DRY sites.
>
> I'm curious.  Does this law specifically prohibit only serving of alcohol,
> or
> does it apply to allowing people to bring their own alcohol?  No SCA event
> I've ever seen has actually served any alcohol.  It's all been individuals
> bringing their own alcohol (which they often share with their friends).
>
> HL Colin MacNachtan
> Ansteorra
> _______________________________________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org
>

From sassyredhead39 at yahoo.com  Wed Jan 30 16:53:31 2013
From: sassyredhead39 at yahoo.com (sassyredhead)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 16:53:31 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Queens Tea
In-Reply-To: <E7B5EFEC-AF82-4004-9845-9852F0C32B76@mac.com>
References: <1359334201.5684.YahooMailNeo@web162105.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
	<E7B5EFEC-AF82-4004-9845-9852F0C32B76@mac.com>
Message-ID: <1359593611.12422.YahooMailNeo@web162101.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

Johanna,
Thank you for your?input...all your questions are certainly a good place for me to start. I have to contact Her Highness and get some answers. Thanks for giving me direction!
Sarah Beth


>________________________________
> From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>
>To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org> 
>Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 8:57 PM
>Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Queens Tea
>  
>Depends on large part--
>how many,
>setting (how rustic or facilities are available? Do you provide and transport everything from linens to tables plus the food?),
>anticipated schedule (late in afternoon or lunchtime?)
>budget (who pays?),
>distance to transport everything,
>royal preferences?
>weather during that time of year and what happens if it rains?
>
>Once you know those things, then you can talk about the menu.
>
>Johnnae
>
>On Jan 27, 2013, at 7:50 PM, sassyredhead wrote:
>
>> I will be hosting my first Queens Tea in April. I am looking for some ideas...what have you done for a Tea...what worked what didn't...period foods...elegant foods...mixture of foods?? All ideas welcome!
>> Baroness Sarah Beth
>> Atlantia
>_______________________________________________
>Sca-cooks mailing list
>Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
>http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org
>
>
>   

From samia at idlelion.net  Wed Jan 30 16:56:10 2013
From: samia at idlelion.net (Sayyeda al-Kaslaania)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 18:56:10 -0600
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Officially serving modern food at SCA events
In-Reply-To: <510943C2.2090201@jeffnet.org>
References: <1727382.1359512046409.JavaMail.root@elwamui-milano.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<AF2F1DA7964D6344A6B72C61AC9AA953050E79BA@CH1PRD0711MB432.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
	<510943C2.2090201@jeffnet.org>
Message-ID: <5109C12A.2070603@idlelion.net>

I'm disappointed in the creation of a dichotomy in these statements-- 
those of us who consume alcohol are not out to be blind drunkards at 
events. I enjoy events where I can enjoy wine with dinner. It is part of 
the fun I have with friends that I get to see when I travel. This is 
especially true where many folks bring their home made goods. Please 
don't vilify us for wanting an experience you don't want.

Sayyeda al-Kaslaania

On 1/30/2013 10:01 AM, Laura C. Minnick wrote:
> I encountered this problem a couple of times as an autocrat, and 
> really, if you can't go without booze for a few hours, YOU HAVE A 
> PROBLEM. And as far as I'm concerned, it should not be my problem.
>
> Liutgard, up to early and not happy about it.
>
> On 1/30/2013 6:08 AM, Kathleen Roberts wrote:
>> Some people don't attend an event because they can't drink at the 
>> event.  Forget the good food, forget the fun, just stay home because 
>> you can't have a beer.
>>
>> Don't get me wrong, I drink.  I enjoy my Scotch et. al.  But I can 
>> surely stand to be at an event for four to five hours without a drink 
>> in my hand.
>>
>> YMMV
>>
>> Cailte

From agora158 at gmail.com  Wed Jan 30 17:17:45 2013
From: agora158 at gmail.com (=?utf-8?Q?Ana_Vald=C3=A9s?=)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 23:17:45 -0200
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Off topic but important
Message-ID: <2340A13A-B169-4168-A2BB-43F6120B97E1@gmail.com>

I have an invasion of small ants in the bathroom and a invasion of pantry moths in the kitchen :(
The moth are tough to eradicate and they live in spices and in flour.
Do anyone know how to get rid of them in an ecological way, no chemical sprays or other similar stuff?
Thanks in advance!
Ana

Skickat fr?n min iPhone

From phlip at 99main.com  Wed Jan 30 20:07:23 2013
From: phlip at 99main.com (Saint Phlip)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 23:07:23 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Off topic but important
In-Reply-To: <2340A13A-B169-4168-A2BB-43F6120B97E1@gmail.com>
References: <2340A13A-B169-4168-A2BB-43F6120B97E1@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAA3uHKzLRAWN_aYmubd_3d1FXPhbmv5riceJHZVjYu0BpDGoCw@mail.gmail.com>

If you put all your spices etc in the freezer for a few days, it will
kill the bugs. After that, make sure they're sealed tightly.

Boric acid does a good job on ants, and is reasonably non-toxic. It
can also put fires out, and is quite useful as a welding flux on my
forge ;-)

On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 8:17 PM, Ana Vald?s <agora158 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I have an invasion of small ants in the bathroom and a invasion of pantry moths in the kitchen :(
> The moth are tough to eradicate and they live in spices and in flour.
> Do anyone know how to get rid of them in an ecological way, no chemical sprays or other similar stuff?
> Thanks in advance!
> Ana
>
> Skickat fr?n min iPhone
> _______________________________________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org



-- 
Saint Phlip

So, you think your data is safe?
http://www.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/01/23/schneier.google.hacking/index.html?hpt=T2

Heat it up
Hit it hard
Repent as necessary.

Priorities:

It's the smith who makes the tools, not the tools which make the smith.

.I never wanted to see anybody die, but there are a few obituary
notices I have read with pleasure. -Clarence Darrow

From agora158 at gmail.com  Wed Jan 30 20:16:05 2013
From: agora158 at gmail.com (=?utf-8?Q?Ana_Vald=C3=A9s?=)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 02:16:05 -0200
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Off topic but important
In-Reply-To: <CAA3uHKzLRAWN_aYmubd_3d1FXPhbmv5riceJHZVjYu0BpDGoCw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2340A13A-B169-4168-A2BB-43F6120B97E1@gmail.com>
	<CAA3uHKzLRAWN_aYmubd_3d1FXPhbmv5riceJHZVjYu0BpDGoCw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E1DBD030-3754-4955-A787-432B720CA8AC@gmail.com>

Thanks a lot! How do I buy boric acid? In the pharmacy or in a store? Do you know if it's some label on it?
Ana

Skickat fr?n min iPhone

31 jan 2013 kl. 02:07 skrev Saint Phlip <phlip at 99main.com>:

> If you put all your spices etc in the freezer for a few days, it will
> kill the bugs. After that, make sure they're sealed tightly.
> 
> Boric acid does a good job on ants, and is reasonably non-toxic. It
> can also put fires out, and is quite useful as a welding flux on my
> forge ;-)
> 
> On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 8:17 PM, Ana Vald?s <agora158 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I have an invasion of small ants in the bathroom and a invasion of pantry moths in the kitchen :(
>> The moth are tough to eradicate and they live in spices and in flour.
>> Do anyone know how to get rid of them in an ecological way, no chemical sprays or other similar stuff?
>> Thanks in advance!
>> Ana
>> 
>> Skickat fr?n min iPhone
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sca-cooks mailing list
>> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
>> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Saint Phlip
> 
> So, you think your data is safe?
> http://www.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/01/23/schneier.google.hacking/index.html?hpt=T2
> 
> Heat it up
> Hit it hard
> Repent as necessary.
> 
> Priorities:
> 
> It's the smith who makes the tools, not the tools which make the smith.
> 
> .I never wanted to see anybody die, but there are a few obituary
> notices I have read with pleasure. -Clarence Darrow
> _______________________________________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org

From phlip at 99main.com  Wed Jan 30 20:24:01 2013
From: phlip at 99main.com (Saint Phlip)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 23:24:01 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Dry sites
In-Reply-To: <SNT145-W9599B8F55B376C7102AC7F851E0@phx.gbl>
References: <CAP=UV6o2gM_UmhfhxEbukBY6Ayi7z3_VWj_bRcHO1Qwju=cdqA@mail.gmail.com>
	<SNT145-W9599B8F55B376C7102AC7F851E0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <CAA3uHKyp_cT5F2-0g_m3OQ55BZU2ULi+ncH2A5BmcHG72vfiyA@mail.gmail.com>

Trying to sort out the laws relating to alcoholic beverages in the US
will drive you crazy. Where I lived in Ohio, on one side of the river
you could drink or buy anything you wanted, but on the other side you
were limited to beer or wine- unless you belonged to the American
Legion or the Eagles, where you could drink anything- until you set
foot out of town, where it was bone dry. All of these different rules
held forth in the same county, in very easy walking distance of each
other. Maybe within 100 yards?

In the mean time, it looks like the SCA is going to contribute to even
more confusion, in relation to the marijuana laws. The latest BoD
meeting ruled that ( from
http://eastkingdomgazette.org/2013/01/30/highlights-from-saturdays-bod-meeting/
)

"In another reminder of how real life politics affect the SCA, the BoD
created a new policy prohibiting marijuana at all events, even in
states where it is legal. Because federal law prohibits it, the SCA
will do so as well."

This is going to be interesting, the first time an event is held in a
state which allows consumption of medical marijuana, and some poor
event steward/autocrat/whatever attempts to make them stop. I'm sure
you all know that there will be at least one person who will want to
push the envelope, and I suspect all Hel is going to break loose-
"What do you mean, I can't take my medicine?" I think the BoD would
have been better served to say nothing- I don't think we can afford
another lawsuit. I hear we're still paying for the last one.


Oh well, I suspect things are going to get interesting.

-- 
Saint Phlip

So, you think your data is safe?
http://www.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/01/23/schneier.google.hacking/index.html?hpt=T2

Heat it up
Hit it hard
Repent as necessary.

Priorities:

It's the smith who makes the tools, not the tools which make the smith.

.I never wanted to see anybody die, but there are a few obituary
notices I have read with pleasure. -Clarence Darrow

From johnnae at mac.com  Wed Jan 30 20:29:07 2013
From: johnnae at mac.com (Johnna Holloway)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 23:29:07 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Off topic but important
In-Reply-To: <2340A13A-B169-4168-A2BB-43F6120B97E1@gmail.com>
References: <2340A13A-B169-4168-A2BB-43F6120B97E1@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8CFD33A8-8D75-4C09-9492-4E0E9E10E365@mac.com>

There are numerous websites here in the USA that address the matter.

http://www.ipm.ucdavis.edu/PMG/PESTNOTES/pn7452.html

The best seem to be by the university extension services.

Try a search under -- Natural pest control pantry pests

I know getting rid of pantry bugs is a real problem. They infested a pantry at my mother in law's. We tossed food out.
We sprayed. We kept everything in plastic. We would still find bugs from time to time.

Johnnae

Sent from my iPad

On Jan 30, 2013, at 8:17 PM, Ana Vald?s <agora158 at gmail.com> wrote:

> I have an invasion of small ants in the bathroom and a invasion of pantry moths in the kitchen :(
> The moth are tough to eradicate and they live in spices and in flour.
> Do anyone know how to get rid of them in an ecological way, no chemical sprays or other similar stuff?
> Thanks in advance!
> Ana
> 

From susanrlin at gmail.com  Wed Jan 30 20:30:34 2013
From: susanrlin at gmail.com (Susan Lin)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 21:30:34 -0700
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Off topic but important
In-Reply-To: <E1DBD030-3754-4955-A787-432B720CA8AC@gmail.com>
References: <2340A13A-B169-4168-A2BB-43F6120B97E1@gmail.com>
	<CAA3uHKzLRAWN_aYmubd_3d1FXPhbmv5riceJHZVjYu0BpDGoCw@mail.gmail.com>
	<E1DBD030-3754-4955-A787-432B720CA8AC@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHkO8TT=z3QgaOgSjC7mJH5su=aR-188JHUU5g2whCaORpi0FQ@mail.gmail.com>

Would sprinkling some diatomaceous earth work as well?

http://www.gardeners.com/Diatomaceous-Earth/05-402,default,pd.html

Shoshanah

On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 9:16 PM, Ana Vald?s <agora158 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Thanks a lot! How do I buy boric acid? In the pharmacy or in a store? Do
> you know if it's some label on it?
> Ana
>
> Skickat fr?n min iPhone
>
> 31 jan 2013 kl. 02:07 skrev Saint Phlip <phlip at 99main.com>:
>
> > If you put all your spices etc in the freezer for a few days, it will
> > kill the bugs. After that, make sure they're sealed tightly.
> >
> > Boric acid does a good job on ants, and is reasonably non-toxic. It
> > can also put fires out, and is quite useful as a welding flux on my
> > forge ;-)
> >
> > On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 8:17 PM, Ana Vald?s <agora158 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> I have an invasion of small ants in the bathroom and a invasion of
> pantry moths in the kitchen :(
> >> The moth are tough to eradicate and they live in spices and in flour.
> >> Do anyone know how to get rid of them in an ecological way, no chemical
> sprays or other similar stuff?
> >> Thanks in advance!
> >> Ana
> >>
> >> Skickat fr?n min iPhone
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Sca-cooks mailing list
> >> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> >> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Saint Phlip
> >
> > So, you think your data is safe?
> >
> http://www.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/01/23/schneier.google.hacking/index.html?hpt=T2
> >
> > Heat it up
> > Hit it hard
> > Repent as necessary.
> >
> > Priorities:
> >
> > It's the smith who makes the tools, not the tools which make the smith.
> >
> > .I never wanted to see anybody die, but there are a few obituary
> > notices I have read with pleasure. -Clarence Darrow
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sca-cooks mailing list
> > Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> > http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org
> _______________________________________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org
>

From phlip at 99main.com  Wed Jan 30 21:22:50 2013
From: phlip at 99main.com (Saint Phlip)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 00:22:50 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Off topic but important
In-Reply-To: <E1DBD030-3754-4955-A787-432B720CA8AC@gmail.com>
References: <2340A13A-B169-4168-A2BB-43F6120B97E1@gmail.com>
	<CAA3uHKzLRAWN_aYmubd_3d1FXPhbmv5riceJHZVjYu0BpDGoCw@mail.gmail.com>
	<E1DBD030-3754-4955-A787-432B720CA8AC@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAA3uHKxWZ0z+Zm1Z0GL8uW6BKRNhMG3LiOvRAnMgCHiYBFeLxA@mail.gmail.com>

Boric Acid is usually found in hardware or feed stores. Sometimes you
can find it for sale as an insecticide- that's one place we got it
when we wanted to use it as a flux. If you go to a decent hardware
store, though, they can find you some.

On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 11:16 PM, Ana Vald?s <agora158 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks a lot! How do I buy boric acid? In the pharmacy or in a store? Do you know if it's some label on it?
> Ana
>
> Skickat fr?n min iPhone
>
> 31 jan 2013 kl. 02:07 skrev Saint Phlip <phlip at 99main.com>:
>
>> If you put all your spices etc in the freezer for a few days, it will
>> kill the bugs. After that, make sure they're sealed tightly.
>>
>> Boric acid does a good job on ants, and is reasonably non-toxic. It
>> can also put fires out, and is quite useful as a welding flux on my
>> forge ;-)
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 8:17 PM, Ana Vald?s <agora158 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I have an invasion of small ants in the bathroom and a invasion of pantry moths in the kitchen :(
>>> The moth are tough to eradicate and they live in spices and in flour.
>>> Do anyone know how to get rid of them in an ecological way, no chemical sprays or other similar stuff?
>>> Thanks in advance!
>>> Ana
>>>
>>> Skickat fr?n min iPhone
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Sca-cooks mailing list
>>> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
>>> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Saint Phlip
>>
>> So, you think your data is safe?
>> http://www.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/01/23/schneier.google.hacking/index.html?hpt=T2
>>
>> Heat it up
>> Hit it hard
>> Repent as necessary.
>>
>> Priorities:
>>
>> It's the smith who makes the tools, not the tools which make the smith.
>>
>> .I never wanted to see anybody die, but there are a few obituary
>> notices I have read with pleasure. -Clarence Darrow
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sca-cooks mailing list
>> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
>> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org
> _______________________________________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org



-- 
Saint Phlip

So, you think your data is safe?
http://www.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/01/23/schneier.google.hacking/index.html?hpt=T2

Heat it up
Hit it hard
Repent as necessary.

Priorities:

It's the smith who makes the tools, not the tools which make the smith.

.I never wanted to see anybody die, but there are a few obituary
notices I have read with pleasure. -Clarence Darrow

From ranvaig at columbus.rr.com  Wed Jan 30 22:39:10 2013
From: ranvaig at columbus.rr.com (Sharon Palmer)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 01:39:10 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Off topic but important
In-Reply-To: <2340A13A-B169-4168-A2BB-43F6120B97E1@gmail.com>
References: <2340A13A-B169-4168-A2BB-43F6120B97E1@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p0601024ecd2fbf55736d@[10.0.1.112]>

>I have an invasion of small ants in the bathroom and a invasion of 
>pantry moths in the kitchen :(
>The moth are tough to eradicate and they live in spices and in flour.
>Do anyone know how to get rid of them in an ecological way, no 
>chemical sprays or other similar stuff?
>Thanks in advance!
>Ana
>


I once brought home grain moths from Pennsic.  They are terrible to 
get rid of.  It took nearly two years to get rid of them all.

Look for anything that has any kind of seed, bird seed, spices, 
everything.  And either put it in the freezer or throw it out. Two 
weeks will kill the eggs, but leave the stuff in the freezer until 
you are sure they are gone from the house, or they will just reinfest 
it.

I wasn't drastic enough at first.  I was in a phase where I had jars 
of all kinds of grains and beans, and I ended up throwing them all 
out.  They loved jalapeno seeds.

Glass jars with threaded lids will NOT stop them, neither will 
plastic bags.  Plastic containers might if they are closed really 
tightly, but I wouldn't count on it.

Pull everything off the shelves, clean drastically.  Make sure there 
isn't a flake of flour or tapioca for them to find.  I had to throw 
away a placemat my son made in  preschool, where they glued seeds and 
beans in a design.

There are many ways to get an infection like that, but since then, 
anything that has been on a camping trip either gets tossed, or has a 
two week visit to the freezer.

At 12:22 AM -0500 1/31/13, Saint Phlip wrote:
>Boric Acid is usually found in hardware or feed stores. Sometimes you
>can find it for sale as an insecticide- that's one place we got it
>when we wanted to use it as a flux. If you go to a decent hardware
>store, though, they can find you some.

Ana isn't in the US, so I'm not sure that will work.

Ranvaig

From wandap at hevanet.com  Wed Jan 30 22:53:21 2013
From: wandap at hevanet.com (Wanda Pease)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 22:53:21 -0800
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Off topic but important
In-Reply-To: <CAA3uHKxWZ0z+Zm1Z0GL8uW6BKRNhMG3LiOvRAnMgCHiYBFeLxA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2340A13A-B169-4168-A2BB-43F6120B97E1@gmail.com>
	<CAA3uHKzLRAWN_aYmubd_3d1FXPhbmv5riceJHZVjYu0BpDGoCw@mail.gmail.com>
	<E1DBD030-3754-4955-A787-432B720CA8AC@gmail.com>
	<CAA3uHKxWZ0z+Zm1Z0GL8uW6BKRNhMG3LiOvRAnMgCHiYBFeLxA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DF9329BD-70DC-4151-9EA9-F8976D1E5205@hevanet.com>

I found a product at my local hardware store specifically for pantry moths.  Ti consists of a sealed carton that folds out into a little A frame type tent about 2" x 3" that becomes sticky inside.  Then you drop in a thin pad of stuff that is supposed to be a moth pheromone.  The moths fly in, stick and don't breed any little moths!  Took three boxes in the pantry plus everywhere I have wool but it works.  I keep renewing because the larva can come in the paper grocery bags we use now.
   Boric acid I got in the laundry section as Borateam or Twenty Mule Team Borax, an old time Laundry booster before Oxyclean. (you probably won't remember when Ronald Reagan replaced " the Old Ranger" on the TV show sponsored by the company.

Sent from my iPad

On Jan 30, 2013, at 9:22 PM, Saint Phlip <phlip at 99main.com> wrote:

> Boric Acid is usually found in hardware or feed stores. Sometimes you
> can find it for sale as an insecticide- that's one place we got it
> when we wanted to use it as a flux. If you go to a decent hardware
> store, though, they can find you some.
> 

Sent from my iPad

On Jan 25, 2013, at 4:35 PM, "leahrandal at msn.com" <leahrandal at msn.com> 

From lcm at jeffnet.org  Wed Jan 30 23:16:45 2013
From: lcm at jeffnet.org (Laura C. Minnick)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 23:16:45 -0800
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Officially serving modern food at SCA events
In-Reply-To: <5109C12A.2070603@idlelion.net>
References: <1727382.1359512046409.JavaMail.root@elwamui-milano.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<AF2F1DA7964D6344A6B72C61AC9AA953050E79BA@CH1PRD0711MB432.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
	<510943C2.2090201@jeffnet.org> <5109C12A.2070603@idlelion.net>
Message-ID: <510A1A5D.8070401@jeffnet.org>

I don't think that was what I said, or certainly what I meant. If you 
refuse to attend an event because there is no alcohol allowed, there is 
a problem. The problem may be that the breadth of the experience 
available in the SCA have not been made evident or available to you, and 
you don't know of all of the things you can do that are fun, enjoyable, 
etc, that don't involve drinking anything, booze or not. Or it might be 
something else.

I'm not suggesting that you or your friends are drunkards. Or that it is 
wrong to enjoy wine with dinner. Do you always have wine with dinner? Do 
you sometimes go without? Do you avoid a restaurant solely because it 
doesn't serve wine? I hit our local brewpub frequently. I also hit the 
local drivein, which does not serve alcohol.

The problem is when the question is only binary- if the presence of 
alcohol is the sole factor in whether one goes to an event or not.

  I had a whole household throw a hissy fit over a dry site. It was a 
good site, one of the few available in the area, and it was a county 
park that was used as a Boy Scout camp. Rather than support the branch 
(first heavy tourney in years, and we needed the money) and finding that 
I wouldn't tell them it was ok to violate the county's ban anyway, they 
boycotted. People still came, we had a really good time (the kitchen 
crew was still singing the next morning), and we made money. But I was 
appalled. Still am.

BTW, I'm skipping an event- a fairly major feast- in a neighboring 
Barony in two weeks- not because of an alcohol policy, but because I am 
observing Lent (which @#$%^@ is early this year) and there's really no 
point in my being there. I can't be eating what is served, and my 
abstention apparently makes people uncomfortable. So I'm staying home Or 
I could have to work, or I might not be able to afford it, or I might be 
out of town or have homework or I might just not feel like going. But 
I've never skipped an event because it was a dry or wet site. It only 
changes what bottle I slip into the day basket.

Liutgard, who thanks God that the Lenten rules changed sometime in the 
mid 8th c, and she can have beer or wine. Beer makes Lent bearable.

On 1/30/2013 4:56 PM, Sayyeda al-Kaslaania wrote:
> I'm disappointed in the creation of a dichotomy in these statements-- 
> those of us who consume alcohol are not out to be blind drunkards at 
> events. I enjoy events where I can enjoy wine with dinner. It is part 
> of the fun I have with friends that I get to see when I travel. This 
> is especially true where many folks bring their home made goods. 
> Please don't vilify us for wanting an experience you don't want.
>
> Sayyeda al-Kaslaania
>
> On 1/30/2013 10:01 AM, Laura C. Minnick wrote:
>> I encountered this problem a couple of times as an autocrat, and 
>> really, if you can't go without booze for a few hours, YOU HAVE A 
>> PROBLEM. And as far as I'm concerned, it should not be my problem.
>>
>> Liutgard, up to early and not happy about it.
>>
>> On 1/30/2013 6:08 AM, Kathleen Roberts wrote:
>>> Some people don't attend an event because they can't drink at the 
>>> event.  Forget the good food, forget the fun, just stay home because 
>>> you can't have a beer.
>>>
>>> Don't get me wrong, I drink.  I enjoy my Scotch et. al.  But I can 
>>> surely stand to be at an event for four to five hours without a 
>>> drink in my hand.
>>>
>>> YMMV
>>>
>>> Cailte
> _______________________________________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org
>


-- 
"It is our choices Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our 
abilities." -Albus Dumbledore ~~~Follow my Queenly perambulations at: 
http://slugcrossings.blogspot.com/

From lcm at jeffnet.org  Wed Jan 30 23:23:59 2013
From: lcm at jeffnet.org (Laura C. Minnick)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 23:23:59 -0800
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Off topic but important
In-Reply-To: <CAA3uHKxWZ0z+Zm1Z0GL8uW6BKRNhMG3LiOvRAnMgCHiYBFeLxA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2340A13A-B169-4168-A2BB-43F6120B97E1@gmail.com>
	<CAA3uHKzLRAWN_aYmubd_3d1FXPhbmv5riceJHZVjYu0BpDGoCw@mail.gmail.com>
	<E1DBD030-3754-4955-A787-432B720CA8AC@gmail.com>
	<CAA3uHKxWZ0z+Zm1Z0GL8uW6BKRNhMG3LiOvRAnMgCHiYBFeLxA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <510A1C0F.4020100@jeffnet.org>

You can get it most easily in the laundry soap aisle- "20 Mule Team" 
laundry borax. Kills ants, your cats won't eat it.

Liutgard

On 1/30/2013 9:22 PM, Saint Phlip wrote:
> Boric Acid is usually found in hardware or feed stores. Sometimes you
> can find it for sale as an insecticide- that's one place we got it
> when we wanted to use it as a flux. If you go to a decent hardware
> store, though, they can find you some.
>
> On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 11:16 PM, Ana Vald?s <agora158 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Thanks a lot! How do I buy boric acid? In the pharmacy or in a store? Do you know if it's some label on it?
>> Ana
>>
>> Skickat fr?n min iPhone
>>
>> 31 jan 2013 kl. 02:07 skrev Saint Phlip <phlip at 99main.com>:
>>
>>> If you put all your spices etc in the freezer for a few days, it will
>>> kill the bugs. After that, make sure they're sealed tightly.
>>>
>>> Boric acid does a good job on ants, and is reasonably non-toxic. It
>>> can also put fires out, and is quite useful as a welding flux on my
>>> forge ;-)
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 8:17 PM, Ana Vald?s <agora158 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> I have an invasion of small ants in the bathroom and a invasion of pantry moths in the kitchen :(
>>>> The moth are tough to eradicate and they live in spices and in flour.
>>>> Do anyone know how to get rid of them in an ecological way, no chemical sprays or other similar stuff?
>>>> Thanks in advance!
>>>> Ana
>>>>
>>>> Skickat fr?n min iPhone
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Sca-cooks mailing list
>>>> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
>>>> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org
>>>>


-- 
"It is our choices Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our 
abilities." -Albus Dumbledore ~~~Follow my Queenly perambulations at: 
http://slugcrossings.blogspot.com/

From online2much at cox.net  Thu Jan 31 01:54:42 2013
From: online2much at cox.net (Terri Morgan)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 04:54:42 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Queens Tea
In-Reply-To: <ed4c.5f63db1f.3e38a2ae@aol.com>
References: <ed4c.5f63db1f.3e38a2ae@aol.com>
Message-ID: <006201cdff98$fe1e4180$fa5ac480$@cox.net>

> I don't know that the collatio was specifically Lenten; 
> Benedict (6th century) established the reading as a
> regular thing in the Benedictine rule and the association
> with a light refreshment is said to have followed.
> <snip> 
> One thing's for sure: it's as medieval as medieval can be.
> And I for one think "The Queen's Collatio" has a lovely ring to it.
> Jim  Chevallier

I agree. I bet we could get a movement going in our kingdom to call it a
"Queen's Collatio"... it sounds very nice.


Hrothny 


From online2much at cox.net  Thu Jan 31 01:55:29 2013
From: online2much at cox.net (Terri Morgan)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 04:55:29 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Officially serving modern food at SCA events
In-Reply-To: <510A1A5D.8070401@jeffnet.org>
References: <1727382.1359512046409.JavaMail.root@elwamui-milano.atl.sa.earthlink.net>	<AF2F1DA7964D6344A6B72C61AC9AA953050E79BA@CH1PRD0711MB432.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>	<510943C2.2090201@jeffnet.org>
	<5109C12A.2070603@idlelion.net> <510A1A5D.8070401@jeffnet.org>
Message-ID: <006301cdff99$1a3a25f0$4eae71d0$@cox.net>

> Liutgard, who thanks God that the Lenten rules changed
> sometime in the mid 8th c, and she can have beer or wine.
> Beer makes Lent bearable.

Can you have cider? (Your aside made me curious)


Hrothny




From lcm at jeffnet.org  Thu Jan 31 02:14:46 2013
From: lcm at jeffnet.org (Laura C. Minnick)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 02:14:46 -0800
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Officially serving modern food at SCA events
In-Reply-To: <006301cdff99$1a3a25f0$4eae71d0$@cox.net>
References: <1727382.1359512046409.JavaMail.root@elwamui-milano.atl.sa.earthlink.net>	<AF2F1DA7964D6344A6B72C61AC9AA953050E79BA@CH1PRD0711MB432.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>	<510943C2.2090201@jeffnet.org>
	<5109C12A.2070603@idlelion.net> <510A1A5D.8070401@jeffnet.org>
	<006301cdff99$1a3a25f0$4eae71d0$@cox.net>
Message-ID: <510A4416.9040408@jeffnet.org>

On 1/31/2013 1:55 AM, Terri Morgan wrote:
>> Liutgard, who thanks God that the Lenten rules changed
>> sometime in the mid 8th c, and she can have beer or wine.
>> Beer makes Lent bearable.
> Can you have cider? (Your aside made me curious)
>
>
> Hrothny
>

Yes, I can have cider. I personally don't drink much because it is 
generally higher in sugar and leaves me with a headache. Do like the 
occasional dry pear cider. (James is not here to wink at me, so you'll 
have to conjure the blush on my face for yourself. ;-) )

The really ANNOYING part this yeah- Lent begins the day BEFORE 
Valentine's Day. Uh-huh. I'm thinking about buying a big box of candy 
and eating it myself, so I can get that out of my system. It's a theory 
at least. :-P

I've been going back and forth through the docs I have, and still have 
not been able to establish an if, what, and when there might have been a 
relaxation of the fast of Sunday and other feast days. In the 8th c at 
least a 'feast' day during Lent meant you got to eat a little more, and 
more festive meals. But still no eggs, meat, or dairy. I have not been 
able to ascertain whether there was a division between Eastern and 
Western tradition at that point.

Liutgard
-- 
"It is our choices Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our 
abilities." -Albus Dumbledore ~~~Follow my Queenly perambulations at: 
http://slugcrossings.blogspot.com/

From angharad at adam.com.au  Thu Jan 31 02:30:52 2013
From: angharad at adam.com.au (Claire Clarke)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 21:00:52 +1030
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Officially serving modern food at SCA events
In-Reply-To: <mailman.105182.1359565262.34820.sca-cooks-ansteorra.org@lists.ansteorra.org>
References: <mailman.105182.1359565262.34820.sca-cooks-ansteorra.org@lists.ansteorra.org>
Message-ID: <001501cdff9e$0bbaf590$2330e0b0$@com.au>

 [lilinah at earthlink.net]
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 7:14 PM
To: SCA-Cooks
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Officially serving modern food at SCA events


Even if someone went to an SCA event EVERY SINGLE Saturday in a year,
assuming 52 Saturdays, there would still be 313 other days to enjoy modern
stuff.

*snip*

Urtatim (that's oor-tah-TEEM)
sometimes just a cranky pants
_______________________________________________


I agree with you almost 100% except that caffeine withdrawal is really,
really unpleasant (and I don't even drink coffee - just a lot of tea).

Angharad 


From lcm at jeffnet.org  Thu Jan 31 02:47:19 2013
From: lcm at jeffnet.org (Laura C. Minnick)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 02:47:19 -0800
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Officially serving modern food at SCA events
In-Reply-To: <001501cdff9e$0bbaf590$2330e0b0$@com.au>
References: <mailman.105182.1359565262.34820.sca-cooks-ansteorra.org@lists.ansteorra.org>
	<001501cdff9e$0bbaf590$2330e0b0$@com.au>
Message-ID: <510A4BB7.8000705@jeffnet.org>

On 1/31/2013 2:30 AM, Claire Clarke wrote:
>   [lilinah at earthlink.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 7:14 PM
> To: SCA-Cooks
> Subject: [Sca-cooks] Officially serving modern food at SCA events
>
>
> Even if someone went to an SCA event EVERY SINGLE Saturday in a year,
> assuming 52 Saturdays, there would still be 313 other days to enjoy modern
> stuff.
>
> *snip*
>
> Urtatim (that's oor-tah-TEEM)
> sometimes just a cranky pants
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> I agree with you almost 100% except that caffeine withdrawal is really,
> really unpleasant (and I don't even drink coffee - just a lot of tea).
>
> Angharad
>
> _
:-D
There's two items of modern food in my camp. One is a small tin of cocoa 
mix, for the most miserable of cold wet nights. (I live in An Tir. This 
is not unusual.) It stays hidden in the box of staples. The other is a 
nicely carved wooden box that I can leave on the table, filled with tea 
bags. I bring my favorite stout British stuff and you can't take it from 
me myy preciousssss! Like my glasses, it is a matter of public safety. 
No one has been murdered in my kitchen. Yet.

(Amalric came pretty darn close though...)

Liutgard, who cooks nicely and wields a BIIIIIIIG war spoon!
-- 
"It is our choices Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our 
abilities." -Albus Dumbledore ~~~Follow my Queenly perambulations at: 
http://slugcrossings.blogspot.com/

From lcm at jeffnet.org  Thu Jan 31 03:09:21 2013
From: lcm at jeffnet.org (Laura C. Minnick)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 03:09:21 -0800
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Officially serving modern food at SCA events
In-Reply-To: <510A4BB7.8000705@jeffnet.org>
References: <mailman.105182.1359565262.34820.sca-cooks-ansteorra.org@lists.ansteorra.org>
	<001501cdff9e$0bbaf590$2330e0b0$@com.au>
	<510A4BB7.8000705@jeffnet.org>
Message-ID: <510A50E1.50506@jeffnet.org>

I know it's kind of meta, answering myself, but I had stuff occur to me 
after I hit 'send'...

On 1/31/2013 2:47 AM, Laura C. Minnick wrote:
> On 1/31/2013 2:30 AM, Claire Clarke wrote:
>>   [lilinah at earthlink.net]
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 7:14 PM
>> To: SCA-Cooks
>> Subject: [Sca-cooks] Officially serving modern food at SCA events
>>
>>
>> Even if someone went to an SCA event EVERY SINGLE Saturday in a year,
>> assuming 52 Saturdays, there would still be 313 other days to enjoy 
>> modern
>> stuff.
>>
>> *snip*
>>
>> Urtatim (that's oor-tah-TEEM)
>> sometimes just a cranky pants
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>> I agree with you almost 100% except that caffeine withdrawal is really,
>> really unpleasant (and I don't even drink coffee - just a lot of tea).
>>
>> Angharad
>>
>> _
> :-D
> There's two items of modern food in my camp. One is a small tin of 
> cocoa mix, for the most miserable of cold wet nights. (I live in An 
> Tir. This is not unusual.) It stays hidden in the box of staples. The 
> other is a nicely carved wooden box that I can leave on the table, 
> filled with tea bags. I bring my favorite stout British stuff and you 
> can't take it from me myy preciousssss! Like my glasses, it is a 
> matter of public safety. No one has been murdered in my kitchen. Yet.
>
> (Amalric came pretty darn close though...)
>
> Liutgard, who cooks nicely and wields a BIIIIIIIG war spoon!

Note here: neither item is being served by me at a feast. Come to think 
of it, I don't think I've ever been to a feast where modern beverages 
were served. There may have been some at a dayboard, but I seldom eat  
the dayboard, so I don't know. I would imagine that there would be 
caffeine opportunities during the day at a feast, to get a discreet (or 
not) caffeine hit.

But my eyebrows would permanently afix themselves somewhat higher than 
they are if coffee were served as part of the feast.

In camp, the time span is longer, and I'm a little more lenient, 
including on myself, about caffeinated beverages. And when the Laurels 
draw the short straw and get the 8 am meeting- or even the 9- I have 
been known to drag my sorry, nite-owl carcass over to the meeting with 
my teapot tucked under my arm. A friend of mine gifted me with a mug 
with a crab painted on it, and my peeps know that if the crabby mug is 
still in my hand, it's best not to approach. (And oh, so tempting to 
abuse this...)

Liutgard
-- 
"It is our choices Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our 
abilities." -Albus Dumbledore ~~~Follow my Queenly perambulations at: 
http://slugcrossings.blogspot.com/

From agora158 at gmail.com  Thu Jan 31 04:06:14 2013
From: agora158 at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ana_Vald=E9s?=)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 10:06:14 -0200
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Off topic but important
In-Reply-To: <510A1C0F.4020100@jeffnet.org>
References: <2340A13A-B169-4168-A2BB-43F6120B97E1@gmail.com>
	<CAA3uHKzLRAWN_aYmubd_3d1FXPhbmv5riceJHZVjYu0BpDGoCw@mail.gmail.com>
	<E1DBD030-3754-4955-A787-432B720CA8AC@gmail.com>
	<CAA3uHKxWZ0z+Zm1Z0GL8uW6BKRNhMG3LiOvRAnMgCHiYBFeLxA@mail.gmail.com>
	<510A1C0F.4020100@jeffnet.org>
Message-ID: <CAFbYiEJYaziM0i00KvXC6Uw8ttSEq9qamxbmCSoWYLLmATcRoA@mail.gmail.com>

Sorry I should add "I am now living in Uruguay, the most southern country
of South America" :) I moved last year from the extrem North (Sweden, where
I lived for 34 years) to the extrem South :)
Ana


On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 5:23 AM, Laura C. Minnick <lcm at jeffnet.org> wrote:

> You can get it most easily in the laundry soap aisle- "20 Mule Team"
> laundry borax. Kills ants, your cats won't eat it.
>
> Liutgard
>
>
> On 1/30/2013 9:22 PM, Saint Phlip wrote:
>
>> Boric Acid is usually found in hardware or feed stores. Sometimes you
>> can find it for sale as an insecticide- that's one place we got it
>> when we wanted to use it as a flux. If you go to a decent hardware
>> store, though, they can find you some.
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 11:16 PM, Ana Vald?s <agora158 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks a lot! How do I buy boric acid? In the pharmacy or in a store? Do
>>> you know if it's some label on it?
>>> Ana
>>>
>>> Skickat fr?n min iPhone
>>>
>>> 31 jan 2013 kl. 02:07 skrev Saint Phlip <phlip at 99main.com>:
>>>
>>>  If you put all your spices etc in the freezer for a few days, it will
>>>> kill the bugs. After that, make sure they're sealed tightly.
>>>>
>>>> Boric acid does a good job on ants, and is reasonably non-toxic. It
>>>> can also put fires out, and is quite useful as a welding flux on my
>>>> forge ;-)
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 8:17 PM, Ana Vald?s <agora158 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I have an invasion of small ants in the bathroom and a invasion of
>>>>> pantry moths in the kitchen :(
>>>>> The moth are tough to eradicate and they live in spices and in flour.
>>>>> Do anyone know how to get rid of them in an ecological way, no
>>>>> chemical sprays or other similar stuff?
>>>>> Thanks in advance!
>>>>> Ana
>>>>>
>>>>> Skickat fr?n min iPhone
>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>>>> Sca-cooks mailing list
>>>>> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
>>>>> http://lists.ansteorra.org/**listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-**ansteorra.org<http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>
> --
> "It is our choices Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our
> abilities." -Albus Dumbledore ~~~Follow my Queenly perambulations at:
> http://slugcrossings.blogspot.**com/ <http://slugcrossings.blogspot.com/>
>
> ______________________________**_________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/**listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-**ansteorra.org<http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org>
>



-- 
http://writings-escrituras.tumblr.com/
http://maraya.tumblr.com/
http://www.twitter.com/caravia158
http://www.scoop.it/t/art-and-activism/
http://www.scoop.it/t/food-history-and-trivia
http://www.scoop.it/t/gender-issues/
http://www.scoop.it/t/literary-exiles/
http://www.scoop.it/t/museums-and-ethics/
http://www.scoop.it/t/urbanism-3-0
http://www.scoop.it/t/postcolonial-mind/

cell Sweden +4670-3213370
cell Uruguay +598-99470758


"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with
your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you will always
long to return.
? Leonardo da Vinci

From lcm at jeffnet.org  Thu Jan 31 06:02:51 2013
From: lcm at jeffnet.org (Laura C. Minnick)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 06:02:51 -0800
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Off topic but important
In-Reply-To: <CAFbYiEJYaziM0i00KvXC6Uw8ttSEq9qamxbmCSoWYLLmATcRoA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2340A13A-B169-4168-A2BB-43F6120B97E1@gmail.com>
	<CAA3uHKzLRAWN_aYmubd_3d1FXPhbmv5riceJHZVjYu0BpDGoCw@mail.gmail.com>
	<E1DBD030-3754-4955-A787-432B720CA8AC@gmail.com>
	<CAA3uHKxWZ0z+Zm1Z0GL8uW6BKRNhMG3LiOvRAnMgCHiYBFeLxA@mail.gmail.com>
	<510A1C0F.4020100@jeffnet.org>
	<CAFbYiEJYaziM0i00KvXC6Uw8ttSEq9qamxbmCSoWYLLmATcRoA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <510A798B.8080003@jeffnet.org>

Oh! Sorry, I'd forgotten that you weren't in the US or western Europe. 
You sure get around, girl!

In that case, go to the chemist/pharmacy, tell them you need borax 
powder, and where can you find it. There's a very old-fashioned remedy 
for conjuctivitis (pink eye) that involves a solution of borax ans warm 
water (not terribly old, as my mom used to do it and she's not of a vast 
age). They should be able to help you find it.

We mix it with a bit of honey and spread it into a film, on a small 
dish. The ants crawl in thinking they're getting a free snack, and are 
poisoned by the borax.

I don't know of any simple ways to get rid of the pantry moths. Around 
here, they usually come into the house on a box or paper sack of 
something they like- flour, or pancake mix for instance. Throwing it all 
out, scalding the shelving and pantry walls and floor, and freezing 
everything you bring in for a few days before putting it on the shelf 
helps, but they can squeeze through the tiniest of cracks, and will 
repopulate before you know it. There's a few anti-bug recipes/hints in 
the _Menagier de Paris_, right after the instructions for keeping your 
husband well. They might be worth trying Or again, asking the chemist 
what they might suggest. I'd offer to send you some of the traps, but 
I'm not sure Customs would let them through.

Liutgard

On 1/31/2013 4:06 AM, Ana Vald?s wrote:
> Sorry I should add "I am now living in Uruguay, the most southern country
> of South America" :) I moved last year from the extrem North (Sweden, where
> I lived for 34 years) to the extrem South :)
> Ana
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 5:23 AM, Laura C. Minnick <lcm at jeffnet.org> wrote:
>
>> You can get it most easily in the laundry soap aisle- "20 Mule Team"
>> laundry borax. Kills ants, your cats won't eat it.
>>
>> Liutgard
>>
>>


-- 
"It is our choices Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our 
abilities." -Albus Dumbledore ~~~Follow my Queenly perambulations at: 
http://slugcrossings.blogspot.com/

From alysk at ix.netcom.com  Thu Jan 31 06:33:37 2013
From: alysk at ix.netcom.com (Elise Fleming)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 09:33:37 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] OT: Off topic but important
Message-ID: <510A80C1.5010500@ix.netcom.com>

Ana wrote, "Sorry I should add "I am now living in Uruguay, the most 
southern country of South America" :) I moved last year from the extrem 
North (Sweden, where I lived for 34 years) to the extrem South :)

Uhhhh... Argentina is farther south than Uruguay.  Chile has land that 
is either slightly farther south than Argentina or equal to it depending 
on whether you count islands 
(https://maps.google.com/maps?q=tierra+del+fuego+map&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=0xbc4c22cfd9432921:0x80ee54358cf0d88d,Tierra+del+Fuego+Province,+Argentina&gl=us&ei=M4AKUZXkGvKD0QHb3oCADQ&ved=0CDEQ8gEwAA). 
  And, the southernmost city in South America is Ushuaia in Argentina

I've been fortunate to visit Argentina twice.  Lovely place!  The cups 
of hot chocolate are unbelievably delicious!

Alys K.
-- 
Elise Fleming
alysk at ix.netcom.com
alyskatharine at gmail.com
http://damealys.medievalcookery.com/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8311418 at N08/sets/

From agora158 at gmail.com  Thu Jan 31 06:36:48 2013
From: agora158 at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ana_Vald=E9s?=)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 12:36:48 -0200
Subject: [Sca-cooks] OT: Off topic but important
In-Reply-To: <510A80C1.5010500@ix.netcom.com>
References: <510A80C1.5010500@ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <CAFbYiELdq9VmzLF-4rgN0Z0C4a4X70eQbeJ3BTL+fkgp5aiYtQ@mail.gmail.com>

Sorry to disagree, Uruguay as country, is the most southern country. Chile
and Argentina starts far up in the North but Uruguay is only on the South,
Montevideo is the world's most southern capital.
Ana


On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 12:33 PM, Elise Fleming <alysk at ix.netcom.com> wrote:

> Ana wrote, "Sorry I should add "I am now living in Uruguay, the most
> southern country of South America" :) I moved last year from the extrem
> North (Sweden, where I lived for 34 years) to the extrem South :)
>
> Uhhhh... Argentina is farther south than Uruguay.  Chile has land that is
> either slightly farther south than Argentina or equal to it depending on
> whether you count islands (https://maps.google.com/maps?**
> q=tierra+del+fuego+map&ie=UTF-**8&hq=&hnear=**0xbc4c22cfd9432921:**
> 0x80ee54358cf0d88d,Tierra+del+**Fuego+Province,+Argentina&gl=**
> us&ei=M4AKUZXkGvKD0QHb3oCADQ&**ved=0CDEQ8gEwAA<https://maps.google.com/maps?q=tierra+del+fuego+map&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=0xbc4c22cfd9432921:0x80ee54358cf0d88d,Tierra+del+Fuego+Province,+Argentina&gl=us&ei=M4AKUZXkGvKD0QHb3oCADQ&ved=0CDEQ8gEwAA>).
>  And, the southernmost city in South America is Ushuaia in Argentina
>
> I've been fortunate to visit Argentina twice.  Lovely place!  The cups of
> hot chocolate are unbelievably delicious!
>
> Alys K.
> --
> Elise Fleming
> alysk at ix.netcom.com
> alyskatharine at gmail.com
> http://damealys.**medievalcookery.com/<http://damealys.medievalcookery.com/>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/**8311418 at N08/sets/<http://www.flickr.com/photos/8311418 at N08/sets/>
> ______________________________**_________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/**listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-**ansteorra.org<http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org>
>



-- 
http://writings-escrituras.tumblr.com/
http://maraya.tumblr.com/
http://www.twitter.com/caravia158
http://www.scoop.it/t/art-and-activism/
http://www.scoop.it/t/food-history-and-trivia
http://www.scoop.it/t/gender-issues/
http://www.scoop.it/t/literary-exiles/
http://www.scoop.it/t/museums-and-ethics/
http://www.scoop.it/t/urbanism-3-0
http://www.scoop.it/t/postcolonial-mind/

cell Sweden +4670-3213370
cell Uruguay +598-99470758


"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with
your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you will always
long to return.
? Leonardo da Vinci

From talana1 at hotmail.com  Thu Jan 31 06:42:03 2013
From: talana1 at hotmail.com (Jennifer Carlson)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 08:42:03 -0600
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Off topic but important
Message-ID: <SNT002-W73354234FAD9D93F3CEB4DE91D0@phx.gbl>

I've had bad problems with pantry moths (candle bugs is our local name for them).  What everyone has said is true - freeze and seal.  Also clean your pantry from top to bottom to make sure you get any coccoons and every trace of flour dust that might be on the shelves, walls, or floor.
 
With the ants, in addition to using boric acid, mop more frequently for a while.  Ants leave a scent track for others to follow.  We have an annual migration through our bathroom every August, and busting up the highway puts a quick end to it.
 
 
Talana 		 	   		  

From lizmaekate at hotmail.com  Thu Jan 31 06:43:07 2013
From: lizmaekate at hotmail.com (. .)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 08:43:07 -0600
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Lenten Observations was Officially serving modern food
 at SCA events
In-Reply-To: <mailman.106694.1359640982.34820.sca-cooks-ansteorra.org@lists.ansteorra.org>
References: <mailman.106694.1359640982.34820.sca-cooks-ansteorra.org@lists.ansteorra.org>
Message-ID: <BAY172-W2883C588D0DFA90BA7B9C6C21D0@phx.gbl>


> > Liutgard, who thanks God that the Lenten rules changed
> > sometime in the mid 8th c, and she can have beer or wine.
> > Beer makes Lent bearable.
> 
> Can you have cider? (Your aside made me curious)
> 
> 
> Hrothny
> 

 
Cider, beer, and wine are all good during Lent.  It's the hard liquors that you can't have.  I've done the period Lent thing (focus on 16th Century practices, more on my blog at isabelladangelo.blogspot.com) and I plan on doing it again this year.  It really has helped a lot just as a learning tool of what our ancestors truly went through and I would LOVE to see a Lenten feast done in the SCA.   
 
BTW, since Valentine's Day is for Saint Valentine, in the modern Church, they will easily give any disposition for a feast that day if you ask.  It's not needed since it falls on a Thursday and, therefore, under the modern rules, it's perfectly fine to have a feast.  However, I know that in the past when a major Saint's day falls on a Friday, Lent tends to take a back seat to the feast day - i.e., Saint Patrick.  ;-)  
 
-Isabella
 
  		 	   		  

From lcm at jeffnet.org  Thu Jan 31 06:58:48 2013
From: lcm at jeffnet.org (Laura C. Minnick)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 06:58:48 -0800
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Lenten Observations was Officially serving modern
 food at SCA events
In-Reply-To: <BAY172-W2883C588D0DFA90BA7B9C6C21D0@phx.gbl>
References: <mailman.106694.1359640982.34820.sca-cooks-ansteorra.org@lists.ansteorra.org>
	<BAY172-W2883C588D0DFA90BA7B9C6C21D0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <510A86A8.4010208@jeffnet.org>

On 1/31/2013 6:43 AM, . . wrote:
>>> Liutgard, who thanks God that the Lenten rules changed
>>> sometime in the mid 8th c, and she can have beer or wine.
>>> Beer makes Lent bearable.
>> Can you have cider? (Your aside made me curious)
>>
>>
>> Hrothny
>>
>   
> Cider, beer, and wine are all good during Lent.  It's the hard liquors that you can't have.  I've done the period Lent thing (focus on 16th Century practices, more on my blog at isabelladangelo.blogspot.com) and I plan on doing it again this year.  It really has helped a lot just as a learning tool of what our ancestors truly went through and I would LOVE to see a Lenten feast done in the SCA.
>   
> BTW, since Valentine's Day is for Saint Valentine, in the modern Church, they will easily give any disposition for a feast that day if you ask.  It's not needed since it falls on a Thursday and, therefore, under the modern rules, it's perfectly fine to have a feast.  However, I know that in the past when a major Saint's day falls on a Friday, Lent tends to take a back seat to the feast day - i.e., Saint Patrick.  ;-)
>   
> -Isabella
>   
In the 8th c the rules were much more stringent, and I've not been able 
to find the beginning point of relaxation/allowances/indulgences. Not to 
say they aren't there later, just that I am still looking.

James and I will be celebrating the week before, and more than chocolate 
or anything like that, I want MEAT and cheese and cream sauces and 
things like that. Maybe make a pot roast.

(There's restriction on nooky too, but I will NOT be following that!)

Liutgard

-- 
"It is our choices Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our 
abilities." -Albus Dumbledore ~~~Follow my Queenly perambulations at: 
http://slugcrossings.blogspot.com/

From lcm at jeffnet.org  Thu Jan 31 07:05:35 2013
From: lcm at jeffnet.org (Laura C. Minnick)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 07:05:35 -0800
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Lenten Observations was Officially serving modern
 food at SCA events
In-Reply-To: <BAY172-W2883C588D0DFA90BA7B9C6C21D0@phx.gbl>
References: <mailman.106694.1359640982.34820.sca-cooks-ansteorra.org@lists.ansteorra.org>
	<BAY172-W2883C588D0DFA90BA7B9C6C21D0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <510A883F.8090504@jeffnet.org>

I have a history and practice of Lent article up on my blog, from last 
year: 
http://slugcrossings.blogspot.com/2012/02/basics-of-medieval-lenten-dietary.html 
Might be worth a gander.

Liutgard

-- 
"It is our choices Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our 
abilities." -Albus Dumbledore ~~~Follow my Queenly perambulations at: 
http://slugcrossings.blogspot.com/

From JIMCHEVAL at aol.com  Thu Jan 31 07:14:12 2013
From: JIMCHEVAL at aol.com (JIMCHEVAL at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 10:14:12 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Lenten Observations was Officially serving modern
	food at SCA...
Message-ID: <7957.566f4fb0.3e3be444@aol.com>

They are in fact ungodly complicated. Birds for a while were permitted,  
since they were created on the same day as fish. Under Charlemagne, monks  
were allowed to have pork fat since oil was difficult to get in some  regions, 
but dairy became forbidden. Etc.
 
Le Grand d'Aussy wrote several long sections on this in his history of  
French food, which I've translated as "Catholic Fasting in France from the  
Franks to the Eighteenth Century".
 
Jim  Chevallier
www.chezjim.com

Newly translated from Pierre Jean-Baptiste  Le Grand d'Aussy:
Eggs, Cheese and Butter in Old Regime France  

 
In a message dated 1/31/2013 6:59:01 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,  
lcm at jeffnet.org writes:

In the  8th c the rules were much more stringent, and I've not been able 
to find  the beginning point of relaxation/allowances/indulgences. Not to 
say they  aren't there later, just that I am still  looking.


From christianetrue at earthlink.net  Thu Jan 31 08:04:38 2013
From: christianetrue at earthlink.net (Christiane)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 11:04:38 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Cicera fracta, farinata
Message-ID: <8531018.1359648278606.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rubis.atl.sa.earthlink.net>


I don't think fracta here is split (or fractured or anything similar).  
Arnauld de Villeneuve talks about a drink made with "ossa fracta" and I don't  
think split bones would have gone down very well.  Also the Dictionnaire  
Gaffiot says that fractus means "broken, reduced to pieces".  Plus a word  in 
Provencal (faufrach), meaning a soup made of powdered broad beans, turns  
out to be derived from "faba fracta", which is said to mean "broken broad  
beans".
_http://books.google.com/books?id=kGhXAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA218&dq=%22faba+fracta%22
&hl=en&sa=X&ei=upgIUeflAY7vigKysoFQ&ved=0CGgQ6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q=%22faba%20fr
acta%22&f=false_ 
(http://books.google.com/books?id=kGhXAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA218&dq="faba+fracta"&hl=en&sa=X&ei=upgIUeflAY7vigKysoFQ&ved=0CGgQ6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q
="faba%20fracta"&f=false) 

In  fairness, Dalby does translate the latter as "split beans", however.

==================================================

Thank you, Jim, for your insights. I'll continue making the chickpea flour variations, as well as try it with cooked, mashed chickpeas and egg. 

As for your capon question, might your breadcrumb recipe be a variation of gallettes to serve as a sidedish with a capon? People can then get the taste of the "noble" bird, from the fat...perhaps even an early form of "stuffing?" Because fried patties of savory spiced bread flavored with bird fat and bacon, I would be all over that (says the gal who digs into the leftover stuffing at Thanksgiving, you can keep your turkey, thank you very much).

Adelisa

 


From agora158 at gmail.com  Thu Jan 31 08:18:26 2013
From: agora158 at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ana_Vald=E9s?=)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 14:18:26 -0200
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Cicera fracta, farinata
In-Reply-To: <8531018.1359648278606.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rubis.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <8531018.1359648278606.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rubis.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <CAFbYiE+iL08hSi4sVpG1hv8kAF-5JyeiZOmQ1CtFzQqaQRekYw@mail.gmail.com>

I think it must be similar to the thing we eat in Buenos Aires and
Montevideo, here it's called faina and it's eaten together with pizza. But
the original is from Genua and there is called farinata, I think  our faina
is a form of dialect.
In Nice, where it's eaten as traditional nicoise food, it's called socca.
And I ate it in Tanger in Marocco but I don't remember the name, it was
streetfood in Tanger.
It's done with chickpea flour, olive oil and salt and peppar, nothing more.
Really delicious.
Ana


On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 2:04 PM, Christiane <christianetrue at earthlink.net>wrote:

>
> I don't think fracta here is split (or fractured or anything similar).
> Arnauld de Villeneuve talks about a drink made with "ossa fracta" and I
> don't
> think split bones would have gone down very well.  Also the Dictionnaire
> Gaffiot says that fractus means "broken, reduced to pieces".  Plus a word
>  in
> Provencal (faufrach), meaning a soup made of powdered broad beans, turns
> out to be derived from "faba fracta", which is said to mean "broken broad
> beans".
> _
> http://books.google.com/books?id=kGhXAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA218&dq=%22faba+fracta%22
>
> &hl=en&sa=X&ei=upgIUeflAY7vigKysoFQ&ved=0CGgQ6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q=%22faba%20fr
> acta%22&f=false_
> (http://books.google.com/books?id=kGhXAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA218&dq=
> "faba+fracta"&hl=en&sa=X&ei=upgIUeflAY7vigKysoFQ&ved=0CGgQ6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q
> ="faba%20fracta"&f=false)
>
> In  fairness, Dalby does translate the latter as "split beans", however.
>
> ==================================================
>
> Thank you, Jim, for your insights. I'll continue making the chickpea flour
> variations, as well as try it with cooked, mashed chickpeas and egg.
>
> As for your capon question, might your breadcrumb recipe be a variation of
> gallettes to serve as a sidedish with a capon? People can then get the
> taste of the "noble" bird, from the fat...perhaps even an early form of
> "stuffing?" Because fried patties of savory spiced bread flavored with bird
> fat and bacon, I would be all over that (says the gal who digs into the
> leftover stuffing at Thanksgiving, you can keep your turkey, thank you very
> much).
>
> Adelisa
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org
>



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cell Sweden +4670-3213370
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"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with
your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you will always
long to return.
? Leonardo da Vinci

From donnaegreen at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 31 08:55:08 2013
From: donnaegreen at yahoo.com (Donna Green)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 08:55:08 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Lenten Observations
In-Reply-To: <mailman.106948.1359649128.34820.sca-cooks-ansteorra.org@lists.ansteorra.org>
Message-ID: <1359651308.67230.YahooMailClassic@web140903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

> Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 08:43:07 -0600
> From: ". ." <lizmaekate at hotmail.com>
> To: <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
> Subject: [Sca-cooks] Lenten Observations was Officially
> serving modern food at SCA events

> I would LOVE to see a Lenten feast done in the
> SCA.???
>  
> -Isabella

I remember a wonderful Lenten Feast I went to at the Rowany Festival many moons ago. My thought at the time was that if this was fasting, let's do it all year :-)

Juana Isabella



From audreybmorin at gmail.com  Thu Jan 31 09:15:17 2013
From: audreybmorin at gmail.com (Audrey Bergeron-Morin)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 12:15:17 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Off topic but important
In-Reply-To: <p0601024ecd2fbf55736d@10.0.1.112>
References: <2340A13A-B169-4168-A2BB-43F6120B97E1@gmail.com>
	<p0601024ecd2fbf55736d@10.0.1.112>
Message-ID: <CAA98QTpwx--Rc72CoQkr==Vh-ddNnr7i3xpr91VkcTvN3=-WVA@mail.gmail.com>

> There are many ways to get an infection like that, but since then,
> anything that has been on a camping trip either gets tossed, or has a two
> week visit to the freezer.


Our local bulk produce place had a pretty bad infestation at some point,
that's how I caught them (I bought something - flour maybe - before there
were moths flying in the store - and then spent a few months wondering how
people could buy there when there were moths flying around! I put
everything that came from that place straight in the freezer for a few
days, for a long time after their infestation seemed gone!).

I was lucky... I saw *one* adult fly out of the pantry once, freaked out
and checked everything. I took out one small bag of flour, there were adult
moths *in* the bag, dead. They didn't seem to have spread elsewhere, even
though the bag was just closed with a twist tie. I was very lucky, never
saw another one after that.

From voztemp at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 31 12:10:14 2013
From: voztemp at yahoo.com (V O)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 12:10:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Off topic but important
In-Reply-To: <CAA3uHKzLRAWN_aYmubd_3d1FXPhbmv5riceJHZVjYu0BpDGoCw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2340A13A-B169-4168-A2BB-43F6120B97E1@gmail.com>
	<CAA3uHKzLRAWN_aYmubd_3d1FXPhbmv5riceJHZVjYu0BpDGoCw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1359663014.85361.YahooMailNeo@web142403.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

I have heard that useing pepermint extract or oil will help to disuade ants from comming into the house.? You put a line of it along your baseboards, across threshholds, and anywhere you think they might be getting in.? It does not kill them, I believe, but it does stop them from comming in.? 

I have not ever used it, but have thought that this might work and be safe for my animals.

Mirianna

----- Original Message -----
From: Saint Phlip <phlip at 99main.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Cc: 
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 9:07 PM
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Off topic but important

If you put all your spices etc in the freezer for a few days, it will
kill the bugs. After that, make sure they're sealed tightly.

Boric acid does a good job on ants, and is reasonably non-toxic. It
can also put fires out, and is quite useful as a welding flux on my
forge ;-)

On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 8:17 PM, Ana Vald?s <agora158 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I have an invasion of small ants in the bathroom and a invasion of pantry moths in the kitchen :(
> The moth are tough to eradicate and they live in spices and in flour.
> Do anyone know how to get rid of them in an ecological way, no chemical sprays or other similar stuff?
> Thanks in advance!
> Ana
>
> Skickat fr?n min iPhone
> _______________________________________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org



-- 
Saint Phlip

So, you think your data is safe?
http://www.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/01/23/schneier.google.hacking/index.html?hpt=T2

Heat it up
Hit it hard
Repent as necessary.

Priorities:

It's the smith who makes the tools, not the tools which make the smith.

.I never wanted to see anybody die, but there are a few obituary
notices I have read with pleasure. -Clarence Darrow
_______________________________________________
Sca-cooks mailing list
Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org

From selene at earthlink.net  Thu Jan 31 12:13:24 2013
From: selene at earthlink.net (Susan Fox)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 12:13:24 -0800
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Off topic but important
In-Reply-To: <1359663014.85361.YahooMailNeo@web142403.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <2340A13A-B169-4168-A2BB-43F6120B97E1@gmail.com>
	<CAA3uHKzLRAWN_aYmubd_3d1FXPhbmv5riceJHZVjYu0BpDGoCw@mail.gmail.com>
	<1359663014.85361.YahooMailNeo@web142403.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <510AD064.4070401@earthlink.net>

I have used a strong tea brewed of hot chili peppers for dissuading 
ants, sprayed it on the ant trails and all openings to the outside.  
Gives them little anty hotfoot, owie ow ow.  YES I have used this and it 
works like a champ.

Selene Colfox, Caid


On 1/31/2013 12:10 PM, V O wrote:
> I have heard that useing pepermint extract or oil will help to disuade ants from comming into the house.  You put a line of it along your baseboards, across threshholds, and anywhere you think they might be getting in.  It does not kill them, I believe, but it does stop them from comming in.
>
> I have not ever used it, but have thought that this might work and be safe for my animals.
>
> Mirianna


From lcm at jeffnet.org  Thu Jan 31 12:35:46 2013
From: lcm at jeffnet.org (Laura C. Minnick)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 12:35:46 -0800
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Off topic but important
In-Reply-To: <510AD064.4070401@earthlink.net>
References: <2340A13A-B169-4168-A2BB-43F6120B97E1@gmail.com>
	<CAA3uHKzLRAWN_aYmubd_3d1FXPhbmv5riceJHZVjYu0BpDGoCw@mail.gmail.com>
	<1359663014.85361.YahooMailNeo@web142403.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
	<510AD064.4070401@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <510AD5A2.6050903@jeffnet.org>

On 1/31/2013 12:13 PM, Susan Fox wrote:
> I have used a strong tea brewed of hot chili peppers for dissuading 
> ants, sprayed it on the ant trails and all openings to the outside.  
> Gives them little anty hotfoot, owie ow ow.  YES I have used this and 
> it works like a champ.
>
> Selene Colfox, Caid

I understand you can do something similar for mice- mix a paste of flour 
and cayenne, and plug up their hidey holes with it. They will think they 
like it- until they taste it!

Liutgard


-- 
"It is our choices Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our 
abilities." -Albus Dumbledore ~~~Follow my Queenly perambulations at: 
http://slugcrossings.blogspot.com/

From lcm at jeffnet.org  Thu Jan 31 12:47:29 2013
From: lcm at jeffnet.org (Laura C. Minnick)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 12:47:29 -0800
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Lenten Observations was Officially serving modern
 food at SCA...
In-Reply-To: <7957.566f4fb0.3e3be444@aol.com>
References: <7957.566f4fb0.3e3be444@aol.com>
Message-ID: <510AD861.4090008@jeffnet.org>

On 1/31/2013 7:14 AM, JIMCHEVAL at aol.com wrote:
> They are in fact ungodly complicated. Birds for a while were permitted,
> since they were created on the same day as fish. Under Charlemagne, monks
> were allowed to have pork fat since oil was difficult to get in some  regions,
> but dairy became forbidden. Etc.
>   
> Le Grand d'Aussy wrote several long sections on this in his history of
> French food, which I've translated as "Catholic Fasting in France from the
> Franks to the Eighteenth Century".
>   
> Jim  Chevallier
> www.chezjim.com
>
Do you have documentation for the allowance of pork fat and of birds? 
The pork fat I have not seen but it is plausible, though I've never seen 
it show up in any of the medieval Lenten recipes; and Socrates in the 
5th c (not the guy who drank hemlock) allowed birds, but he is and 
outlier- everyone else, from Augustine down, is quite explicit in 
banning the flesh of birds.

And I'm afraid that 18th c practices are not relevant here.

Liutgard

-- 
"It is our choices Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our 
abilities." -Albus Dumbledore ~~~Follow my Queenly perambulations at: 
http://slugcrossings.blogspot.com/

From the.red.ross at gmail.com  Thu Jan 31 18:45:47 2013
From: the.red.ross at gmail.com (Stephanie Ross)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 21:45:47 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Cicera fracta, farinata
Message-ID: <CALE-c-2LPNdG=h5GPmjqjVmAp=7SJAjyWm8dprL6FvH6xWgxyg@mail.gmail.com>

Ana wrote:

I think it must be similar to the thing we eat in Buenos Aires and
Montevideo, here it's called faina and it's eaten together with pizza. But
the original is from Genua and there is called farinata, I think our faina
is a form of dialect.
In Nice, where it's eaten as traditional nicoise food, it's called socca.
And I ate it in Tanger in Marocco but I don't remember the name, it was
streetfood in Tanger.
It's done with chickpea flour, olive oil and salt and peppar, nothing more.
Really delicious.

This sounds like falafel to me. Perhaps "fracta" means crushed? The basis
for felafel is not quite a chickpea flour; it's crushed dried chickpeas,
reconsituted in hot water and then fried, often in a patty form. It has a
crunch and mouth feel you wouldn't get with flour.

AEschwynne

From agora158 at gmail.com  Thu Jan 31 18:55:38 2013
From: agora158 at gmail.com (=?utf-8?Q?Ana_Vald=C3=A9s?=)
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 00:55:38 -0200
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Cicera fracta, farinata
In-Reply-To: <CALE-c-2LPNdG=h5GPmjqjVmAp=7SJAjyWm8dprL6FvH6xWgxyg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALE-c-2LPNdG=h5GPmjqjVmAp=7SJAjyWm8dprL6FvH6xWgxyg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D6EE7A3E-10FB-431F-AF21-1587EE69A303@gmail.com>

But this faina or socca is not crunchy at all, it's smooth and it's made with chickpeas flour.
Ana

Skickat fr?n min iPhone

1 feb 2013 kl. 00:45 skrev Stephanie Ross <the.red.ross at gmail.com>:

> Ana wrote:
> 
> I think it must be similar to the thing we eat in Buenos Aires and
> Montevideo, here it's called faina and it's eaten together with pizza. But
> the original is from Genua and there is called farinata, I think our faina
> is a form of dialect.
> In Nice, where it's eaten as traditional nicoise food, it's called socca.
> And I ate it in Tanger in Marocco but I don't remember the name, it was
> streetfood in Tanger.
> It's done with chickpea flour, olive oil and salt and peppar, nothing more.
> Really delicious.
> 
> This sounds like falafel to me. Perhaps "fracta" means crushed? The basis
> for felafel is not quite a chickpea flour; it's crushed dried chickpeas,
> reconsituted in hot water and then fried, often in a patty form. It has a
> crunch and mouth feel you wouldn't get with flour.
> 
> AEschwynne
> _______________________________________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org

From t.d.decker at att.net  Thu Jan 31 19:33:41 2013
From: t.d.decker at att.net (Terry Decker)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 21:33:41 -0600
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Cicera fracta, farinata
In-Reply-To: <CALE-c-2LPNdG=h5GPmjqjVmAp=7SJAjyWm8dprL6FvH6xWgxyg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALE-c-2LPNdG=h5GPmjqjVmAp=7SJAjyWm8dprL6FvH6xWgxyg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F509184CA32645B49F8E5A1344470B3E@TerryPC>



> Ana wrote:
>
> I think it must be similar to the thing we eat in Buenos Aires and
> Montevideo, here it's called faina and it's eaten together with pizza. But
> the original is from Genua and there is called farinata, I think our faina
> is a form of dialect.
> In Nice, where it's eaten as traditional nicoise food, it's called socca.
> And I ate it in Tanger in Marocco but I don't remember the name, it was
> streetfood in Tanger.
> It's done with chickpea flour, olive oil and salt and peppar, nothing 
> more.
> Really delicious.
>
> This sounds like falafel to me. Perhaps "fracta" means crushed? The basis
> for felafel is not quite a chickpea flour; it's crushed dried chickpeas,
> reconsituted in hot water and then fried, often in a patty form. It has a
> crunch and mouth feel you wouldn't get with flour.
>
> AEschwynne

Faina isn't falafel.  It is chickpea flat bread of varying degrees of 
thickness usually baked in an open oven.  There is a variant that is cooked 
to the consistency of polenta then sliced and fried.  The basic recipe is 
chickpea flour, water and olive oil usually seasoned with salt and pepper, 
but there are some recipes that call for rosemary and other herbs and 
spices.

Bear 


From JIMCHEVAL at aol.com  Thu Jan 31 21:05:10 2013
From: JIMCHEVAL at aol.com (JIMCHEVAL at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 00:05:10 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Lenten Observations was Officially serving modern
	food at SCA...
Message-ID: <816b.7aa78e08.3e3ca706@aol.com>

Le Grand's work amply documents the use of birds, the allowance of pork  
fat, etc. (he says somewhere that he is as much a compiler as a writer). 
Gregory  de Tours (6th century) was served a boiled fowl (with chickpeas) to 
accommodate  his abstinent diet.

"It was comforting enough for the Monks of these  former times to mortify 
themselves, in eating all these dainty birds, domestic  or other. Nonetheless 
the Church in the end found that such food was a sensual  indulgence ill 
suited to people who, by their oath, had devoted themselves to an  austere 
life. In 817, the Council of Aix la Chapelle forbid it them except four  days 
at Easter and four days at Christmas; yet they allowed those who, as a  
penance, wanted even then to abstain from it, to do as they  pleased....

....the Canon of the Council of Aix la Chapelle was only a  rule of reform, 
set exclusively for the Regular Canons. It did not change how  most people 
thought about birds. They continued to regard them as  fish..."

"In 817, when the Council of Aix la Chapelle forbade Regular  Canons the 
use of poultry, as I have noted above, it allowed them that of fat,  to 
indemnify them for this deprivation; nonetheless it excepted from its  permission 
every Friday of the year, the octave of Christmas, and all of Lent;  ut 
Fratres aliquid pinguedinis habeant; excepto sext? feri?, etc. [?that the  
Brethren have some fat; except on the sixth day, etc.?]"


Here is how he sums up the situation as he saw it from his Old  Regime 
perspective:

"If it was possible to restore to Life for an instant  someone who no 
longer lives, it would be a Spectacle quite worthy of a  Philosopher's eyes to 
seat at the same table a Monk of the VIIIth century, a  Monk of the XIVth, and 
one of ours and to serve all three what, in their  different times, and 
according to the regime of their same Rule, constituted and  constitutes their 
fasting food. One would see the last think to keep a severe  abstinence in 
eating eggs, butter and milk-meat; the second regard these  substances as 
meat and abstain from them with horror; the first to the contrary  would join 
to them without scruple a fowl, a partridge, vegetables or greens  seasoned 
with fat or bacon. What a horrible scandal they would cause each other!  How 
they would mutually condemn each other to excommunication. Alas! Let us  
condemn no one. The history of a people's customs is only, strictly speaking,  
the history of its contradictions. Who knows if our own, one day, will not 
be  criticized by future centuries; if our nephews, when they read that we 
did not  dare to eat a duck on a fast day, while we ate a scoter duck and a 
water hen,  will not be as shocked as we are today when we see that our 
Ancestors abstained,  on the same days, from beef and pork, and yet fed themselves 
with vegetables  prepared with fat and bacon."

His work also includes other surprises, such as the fact that in the same  
period Saturday was made a fast day (despite previous objections - which I 
don't  believe he mentions - that this was "Judaizing"). Few Catholics today 
I think  know that it still is: "the Roman Pontiffs have constantly refused 
to abrogate  the law of abstaining on Saturday."
_http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01067a.htm_ 
(http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01067a.htm) 
 
 
So yes, birds (and eggs) were eaten for a long time by people avoiding meat 
 and yes a Church council authorized eating fat. In the medieval era.
 

Jim Chevallier
www.chezjim.com

Newly translated from Pierre  Jean-Baptiste Le Grand d'Aussy:
Eggs, Cheese and Butter in Old Regime France  

In a message dated 1/31/2013 12:47:42 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,  
lcm at jeffnet.org writes:
Do you have documentation for the allowance of pork  fat and of birds? 
....

And I'm afraid that 18th c practices are not  relevant here.