[Sca-cooks] Sundays in Lent
JIMCHEVAL at aol.com
JIMCHEVAL at aol.com
Sat Jul 20 10:01:22 PDT 2013
A little bit more on how unstable rules on eggs and dairy during fasting
were in early centuries - this from the Catholic Church's official site:
"Nature of the fast
Neither was there originally less divergence regarding the nature of the
_fast_ (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05789c.htm) . For example, the
historian _Socrates_ (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14118b.htm) (_Church
HistoryV.22_ (http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/26015.htm) ) tells of the
practice of the fifth century: "Some _abstain_
(http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01067a.htm) from every sort of creature that has _life_
(http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09238c.htm) , while others of all the living creatures eat of
fish only. Others eat birds as well as fish, because, according to the
_Mosaic account of the Creation_ (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07310a.htm) ,
they too sprang from the water; others _abstain_
(http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01067a.htm) from fruit covered by a hard shell and from eggs. Some
eat dry bread only, others not even that; others again when they have
_fasted_ (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05789c.htm) to the ninth hour (three
o'clock) partake of various kinds of food". Amid this diversity some inclined
to the extreme limits of rigor. _Epiphanius_
(http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13393b.htm) , _Palladius_ (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11425a.htm) ,
and the author of the "Life of St. Melania the Younger" seem to
contemplate a state of things in which ordinary _Christians_
(http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03712a.htm) were expected to pass twenty-four hours or more
without food of any kind, especially during _Holy Week_
(http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07435a.htm) , while the more austere actually subsisted during part
or the whole of Lent upon one or two meals a week (see Rampolla, "Vita di.
S. Melania Giuniore", appendix xxv, p. 478). But the ordinary rule on
_fasting_ (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05789c.htm) days was to take but one
meal a day and that only in the evening, while meat and, in the early
centuries, wine were entirely forbidden. During _Holy Week_
(http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07435a.htm) , or at least on _Good Friday_
(http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06643a.htm) it was common to enjoin the xerophagiæ, i.e., a
diet of dry food, bread, salt, and vegetables.
There does not seem at the beginning to have been any prohibition of
lacticinia, as the passage just quoted from _Socrates_
(http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14118b.htm) would show. Moreover, at a somewhat later date, _Bede_
(http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02384a.htm) tells us of _Bishop Cedda_
(http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03475a.htm) [7th c], that during Lent he
took only one meal a day consisting of "a little bread, a hen's egg, and a
little milk mixed with water" (_Church History III.23_
(http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/26013.htm) ), while _Theodulphus of Orleans_
(http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14579b.htm) in the eighth century regarded _abstinence_
(http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01067a.htm) from eggs, cheese, and fish as a
mark of exceptional _virtue_ (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15472a.htm) .
None the less _St. Gregory_ (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06780a.htm)
writing to _St. Augustine of England_
(http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02081a.htm) laid down the rule, "We _abstain_
(http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01067a.htm) from flesh meat, and from all things that come from flesh, as
milk, cheese, and eggs." This decision was afterwards enshrined in the _"Corpus
Juris"_ (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04391a.htm) , and must be
regarded as the _common law_ (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09068a.htm) of the
_Church_ (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03744a.htm) . Still exceptions were
admitted, and _dispensations_ (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05041a.htm)
to eat "lacticinia" were often granted upon condition of making a
contribution to some pious work. These _dispensations_
(http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05041a.htm) were known in _Germany_
(http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06484b.htm) as Butterbriefe, and several _churches_
(http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03041a.htm) are said to have been partly built by the proceeds of
such exceptions. One of the steeples of _Rouen_
(http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13208b.htm) _cathedral_ (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03438a.htm)
was for this reason formerly known as the Butter Tower. This general
prohibition of eggs and milk during Lent is perpetuated in the popular custom of
_blessing_ (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02599b.htm) or making gifts of
eggs at _Easter_ (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05224d.htm) , and in the
_English_ (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05445a.htm) usage of eating
pancakes on _Shrove Tuesday_ (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13763a.htm) ."
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09152a.htm
(For those who care, this received ecclesiastical approbation on October
1, 1910
Ecclesiastical approbation. Nihil Obstat. October 1, 1910. Remy Lafort,
Censor. Imprimatur. +John M. Farley, Archbishop of New York.
)
Jim Chevallier
Comparing early and late medieval food in France
http://www.chezjim.com/food/pre-v/comparisons.html
In a message dated 7/15/2013 10:46:01 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
alexbclark at pennswoods.net writes:
Thanks! That seems to explain it. I didn't understand about the exact
extent to which the Sundays were an exception from the rules for fast
days.
--
Henry/Alex
On Thu, 11 Jul 2013 16:10:25 -0500, "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at att.net>
wrote:
> During the Middle Ages, the Western Church followed the Roman practice of
> observing forty weekdays of fasting (one meal a day general taken after
> sundown, although this was not a hard and fast rule) broken by Sundays.
> Even on Sundays meat and milk products were prohibited. So the
coronation
> meals likely represent normal Sunday fare with dispensation for the meat
>
> Bear
>
>> I've been studying feast menus from around the time of Henry V, and
>> have a question about them. Both Henry V and his bride Catherine of
>> Valois were apparently crowned in Lent, and if I have the dates right
>> (this depends on whether my sources agree on how to handle
>> Julian-Gregorian conversion), they were both crowned on Sundays.
>>
>> My question is this: Both feasts were almost entirely of fish, with
>> one or two dishes of flesh. Does this mean that these Sundays were
>> fish days, and flesh was included by dispensation, or did most of each
>> menu amount to a voluntary fast?
>>
>> --
>> Henry/Alex
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2013 14:34:52 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
> From: lilinah at earthlink.net
> To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Fabulous Feasts
> Message-ID:
>
<32236979.1373578492711.JavaMail.root at elwamui-hound.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> As a Californian i have a certain prejudice for Mediterranean recipes
over
> English (as Wulfric calls it, Curry on Brown Goo), since they make use of
> fresh produce easily available here. So my favorite beginner books are
>
> The Medieval Kitchen: Recipes from France and Italy
> Odile Redon, Fran?oise Sabban, and Silvano Serventi
> University of Chicago Press, 2000
> Softcover, ISBN 0226706850
> This paperback appears to be available for around $10 from many used
book
> vendors
>
> and
>
> The Original Mediterranean Cuisine: Medieval Recipes for Today
> Barbara Santich
> Chicago Review Press, 1996
> Softcover, ISBN 155652272X
> This paperback appears to be available for between $2 and $15 from many
used
> book vendors
>
> For used book searches i HIGHLY recommend
> http://www.bookfinder.com
>
> bookfinder searches amazon, abe books, biblio, alibris, and many many
more,
> all from one single search.
>
> bookfinder also finds books from non-US sellers, which is helpful when
> looking for books not published in the US or not in English - or if you
> don't live in the US...
>
> Urtatim (that's oor-tah-TEEM)
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2013 00:54:57 -0500
> From: Stefan li Rous <StefanliRous at austin.rr.com>
> To: SCA-Cooks maillist SCA-Cooks <SCA-Cooks at Ansteorra.org>
> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Fabulous Feasts
> Message-ID: <9C2890F7-5A26-4090-B534-69D4E5ADD5AA at austin.rr.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Mercy asked:
> <<< Just how terrible is this book, Fabulous Feasts? I'm trying to
gather up
> some good books for my students/friends to learn about period cooking and
> start off in baby steps. Suggestions on inexpensive period cook books
that
> are GOOD would be appreciated.
>
> I own a crap ton of books, but other than the specific books with full
> translations, I'm a little hesitant to suggest books. ::sigh:; >>>
>
> Generally the first section about food is fairly good. The recipes are of
> unreliable vintages and often, aren't that good tasting. Read the first,
> ignore the second half.
>
> Fabulous-Fsts-msg (26K) 4/12/08 Reviews and comments on Madeleine Pelner
> Cosman's "Fabulous Feasts".
> http://www.florilegium.org/files/FOOD-BOOKS/Fabulous-Fsts-msg.html
>
> For food book recommendations, I recommend this annotated bibliography:
> cookbooks-bib (44K) 2/15/04 Cookbook bib. by Mistress Jaelle of Armida.
> http://www.florilegium.org/files/FOOD-BOOKS/cookbooks-bib.html
>
> As well as various book reviews in the FOOD-BOOKS section.
>
> books-food-msg (213K) 5/16/10 Books about food. Not cookbooks.
> http://www.florilegium.org/files/FOOD-BOOKS/books-food-msg.html
>
> Stefan
>
> --------
> THLord Stefan li Rous Barony of Bryn Gwlad Kingdom of Ansteorra
> Mark S. Harris Austin, Texas
> StefanliRous at austin.rr.com
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/marksharris
> **** See Stefan's Florilegium files at: http://www.florilegium.org ****
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2013 10:05:12 -0400
> From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>
> To: SCA_Subtleties at yahoogroups.com, Cooks within the SCA
> <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>, west-cooks at yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Sca-cooks] Another Ivan Day Blog
> Message-ID: <A1CD4762-91FD-4A1B-AFFE-AAD06119B88A at mac.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> And yet another new blog entry by Ivan Day
> http://foodhistorjottings.blogspot.com/
> Wednesday, 10 July 2013
>
> More Edible Artistry
>
> For those wondering what it is that Ivan and his students create at his
> courses, well here's a taste.
>
> Johnnae
>
> On Jul 10, 2013, at 6:38 AM, Elise Fleming wrote:
>
>> Greetings! Ivan Day (foodhistorjottings.blogspot.com) has just posted a
>> blog on "Lattice Top Tarts and Their Precursors" which starts in the
>> 1500s and works onward. A nice challenge for a special feast. Salivate
>> as you look at these!
>>
>> Alys K.__
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2013 10:37:08 -0400 (EDT)
> From: JIMCHEVAL at aol.com
> To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> Subject: [Sca-cooks] What happens when you eat celery, rockett,
> melilot leaves and orange blossom?
> Message-ID: <4413_e.24f88019.3f116e94 at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> "a 9th century physician named Yuhanna ibn Masawayh, believed that ?
> lesbianism results when a nursing woman eats celery, rocket, melilot
leaves
> and
> the flowers of a bitter orange tree. " "
>
>
http://www.medievalists.net/2010/07/29/study-examines-the-same-sex-relations
> hips-of-medieval-arab-women/
>
> Jim Chevallier
>
> Comparing early and late medieval food in France
> http://www.chezjim.com/food/pre-v/comparisons.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
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>
>
> End of Sca-cooks Digest, Vol 87, Issue 14
> *****************************************
>
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