From phlip at 99main.com  Fri Mar  1 08:57:16 2013
From: phlip at 99main.com (Saint Phlip)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2013 11:57:16 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Pasta in period
Message-ID: <CAA3uHKz7B7VuUBxhm9pehgFNfnK=RniRRgDOy_TFZ4SGqVDn3g@mail.gmail.com>

So, was playing around on the 'Net this morning, and found this picture:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:6-alimenti,_pasta,Taccuino_Sanitatis,_Casanatense_4182..jpg

Making pasta; illustration from the 15th century edition of Tacuinum
Sanitatis, a Latin translation of the Arabic work Taqw?m al-sihha by
Ibn Butlan.

I'm thinking both works might be interesting to find out more about ;-)

-- 
Saint Phlip

So, you think your data is safe?
http://www.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/01/23/schneier.google.hacking/index.html?hpt=T2

Heat it up
Hit it hard
Repent as necessary.

Priorities:

It's the smith who makes the tools, not the tools which make the smith.

.I never wanted to see anybody die, but there are a few obituary
notices I have read with pleasure. -Clarence Darrow

From jimandandi at cox.net  Fri Mar  1 09:09:51 2013
From: jimandandi at cox.net (Jim and Andi Houston)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2013 12:09:51 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] dormice
In-Reply-To: <1362006692.72436.YahooMailNeo@web142405.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <55592E68-AD53-4CA4-AF63-25D5C3324D95@austin.rr.com>	<EB96DC4401C04888A34310D4DEFC3252@TerryPC>	<349A3BE5-803F-46D8-B441-A5F9FDDDF60B@mac.com>	<512E696A.7090201@gmail.com>	<973EC7FB-B584-4731-9812-714F2D816F99@mac.com>	<512E85B5.3070400@gmail.com>
	<1362006692.72436.YahooMailNeo@web142405.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <01e601ce169f$96889e30$c399da90$@cox.net>

That is bloody brilliant, that is.

Madhavi

-----Original Message-----
From: sca-cooks-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org [mailto:sca-cooks-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org] On Behalf Of V O
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 6:12 PM
To: Cooks within the SCA
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] dormice

 You could always do what a friend of mine did for a feast, make faux dormice from chicken legs.  We took the meat off of the bone and rolled them up to form small "bodies" fat on one end and narrow at the other so they look like little  rounded mouse bodies with out the legs and heads.  For some of the I left a bit of the skin on and pulled it to the fat end to hang off and when they cooked the shrivled up to look like the tails were left on.  Really grossed out some people, but was lots of fun.  Cooked just like the recipe from period, but not as difficult getting the meat.
 
Mirianna


________________________________
From: Dama Antonia <dama.antonia at gmail.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 3:16 PM
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] dormice

On 28/02/2013 10:19 a.m., Johnna Holloway wrote:
> Both the live ones and the stuffed ones in the museum at Sne?nik Castle were not as large as a squirrel.
> Wikipedia in the entry on the edible dormouse says 4.2-5.3 ounces 
> which doubles right before hibernation. So the whole animal weighs maybe 10.6 ounces. Fox squirrels weigh 1.1-2.2 pounds by comparison.

That's quite true- I was thinking of smaller species such as red squirrels when I typed it.  Grey squirrels and fox squirrels would certainly be a fair bit bigger than an edible dormouse.

Still, people eat lots of fairly small creatures because they think they're tasty.

I believe it's the extra pre-hibernation fat that's supposed to make the dormouse good eating.

-- Antonia di Benedetto Calvo
----------------------------------------------
Dulce et decorum est pro patria pavlovam coxi.

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From johnnae at mac.com  Fri Mar  1 09:41:26 2013
From: johnnae at mac.com (Johnna Holloway)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2013 12:41:26 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Pasta in period
In-Reply-To: <CAA3uHKz7B7VuUBxhm9pehgFNfnK=RniRRgDOy_TFZ4SGqVDn3g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAA3uHKz7B7VuUBxhm9pehgFNfnK=RniRRgDOy_TFZ4SGqVDn3g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3D213F1F-94AF-4BAC-B74D-B751D8A37955@mac.com>

We've talked about it i the past and the various editions and reprints that are available.
There were discussions about the differences between the various illuminations.
Think back to the discussion about beets for one instance.

Try a search under Tacuinum  Sanitatis and SCA to find some via Google.

Wikipedia has a a good entry on it.

Johnnae

On Mar 1, 2013, at 11:57 AM, Saint Phlip wrote:

> So, was playing around on the 'Net this morning, and found this picture:
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:6-alimenti,_pasta,Taccuino_Sanitatis,_Casanatense_4182..jpg
> 
> Making pasta; illustration from the 15th century edition of Tacuinum
> Sanitatis, a Latin translation of the Arabic work Taqw?m al-sihha by
> Ibn Butlan. I'm thinking both works might be interesting to find out more about ;-)


From aruvqan at gmail.com  Fri Mar  1 11:14:42 2013
From: aruvqan at gmail.com (aruvqan)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2013 14:14:42 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] dormice
In-Reply-To: <AA983B58-B739-4134-870E-A86D4F12F2A1@mac.com>
References: <55592E68-AD53-4CA4-AF63-25D5C3324D95@austin.rr.com>
	<EB96DC4401C04888A34310D4DEFC3252@TerryPC>
	<349A3BE5-803F-46D8-B441-A5F9FDDDF60B@mac.com>
	<512E696A.7090201@gmail.com> <512FBCE3.8020406@gmail.com>
	<AA983B58-B739-4134-870E-A86D4F12F2A1@mac.com>
Message-ID: <5130FE22.7000402@gmail.com>

On 2/28/2013 5:01 PM, Johnna Holloway wrote:
> But would you actually serve dormice or would you serve say the chicken substitute?
> (At least in the USA, the cost might be prohibitive since you might have to use pet priced African dormice, since
> we don't have native dormice. And that could lead to possible charges regarding animal cruelty and using a pet or domesticated animal for food. Both charges in many jurisdictions are misdemeanors.)
>
> I am reminded of the discussion that we had last August with the lady who wanted to make the de Nola kitty cat recipe.
>
> Johnnae
>
Depends on whom I was cooking for. Phlip, Rob and I would probably have 
a go at an original dormouse recipe made with dormice from a pet shop 
[after fattening it up] but for anybody outside the family, chicken leg 
or quail dormice.

From voztemp at yahoo.com  Fri Mar  1 11:47:40 2013
From: voztemp at yahoo.com (V O)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2013 11:47:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] dormice
In-Reply-To: <01e601ce169f$96889e30$c399da90$@cox.net>
References: <55592E68-AD53-4CA4-AF63-25D5C3324D95@austin.rr.com>
	<EB96DC4401C04888A34310D4DEFC3252@TerryPC>
	<349A3BE5-803F-46D8-B441-A5F9FDDDF60B@mac.com>
	<512E696A.7090201@gmail.com>
	<973EC7FB-B584-4731-9812-714F2D816F99@mac.com>
	<512E85B5.3070400@gmail.com>
	<1362006692.72436.YahooMailNeo@web142405.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
	<01e601ce169f$96889e30$c399da90$@cox.net>
Message-ID: <1362167260.3450.YahooMailNeo@web142404.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

It was a lot of fun too, when the menu listed dormice and they saw those "tails" :-)? Well, you can imagine what some people thought.? Others did imitations of the TV series "V" and?put the little bodies in their mouths?whole..........?? 
?
Mirianna




________________________________
From: Jim and Andi Houston <jimandandi at cox.net>
To: 'V O' <voztemp at yahoo.com>; 'Cooks within the SCA' <> 
Sent: Friday, March 1, 2013 10:09 AM
Subject: RE: [Sca-cooks] dormice

That is bloody brilliant, that is.

Madhavi

-----Original Message-----
From: sca-cooks-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org [mailto:sca-cooks-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org] On Behalf Of V O
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 6:12 PM
To: Cooks within the SCA
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] dormice

You could always do what a friend of mine did for a feast, make faux dormice from chicken legs.? We took the meat off of the bone and rolled them up to form small "bodies" fat on one end and narrow at the other so they looked like little rounded mouse bodies with out the legs and heads.? For some of them I left a bit of the skin on and pulled it to the fat end to hang off and when they cooked they shrivled up to look like the tails were left on.? Really grossed out some people, but was lots of fun.? Cooked just like the recipe from period, but not as difficult getting the meat.

Mirianna

From galefridus at optimum.net  Fri Mar  1 13:40:46 2013
From: galefridus at optimum.net (galefridus at optimum.net)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2013 21:40:46 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Pasta in period
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1362168368.28853.sca-cooks-ansteorra.org@lists.ansteorra.org>
References: <mailman.1.1362168368.28853.sca-cooks-ansteorra.org@lists.ansteorra.org>
Message-ID: <e5178b682540a.5131205e@optonline.net>

Yeah, practically every illustrated version of the Tacuinum includes an image of folks making pasta. The illustrated Tacuina date anywhere from the late 1300s to the late 1400s. The original Arabic (not illustrated) is from the middle of the 11th century, and is a table of 280 items, mostly food and drink. The 35th entry is for al-atriyyah, which is translated as pasta threads.

-- Galefridus, who spent the past 18 months studying the Taqwim al-Sihha/Tacuinum Sanitatis and has just submitted the manuscript to PPC for publication.

> Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2013 11:57:16 -0500
> From: Saint Phlip 
> To: Cooks within the SCA 
> Subject: [Sca-cooks] Pasta in period
> Message-ID:
> 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> 
> So, was playing around on the 'Net this morning, and found this 
> picture:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:6-
> alimenti,_pasta,Taccuino_Sanitatis,_Casanatense_4182..jpg
> Making pasta; illustration from the 15th century edition of Tacuinum
> Sanitatis, a Latin translation of the Arabic work Taqw?m al-
> sihha by
> Ibn Butlan.
> 
> I'm thinking both works might be interesting to find out more 
> about ;-)
> 
> -- 
> Saint Phlip

From carlton_bach at yahoo.de  Sat Mar  2 23:44:06 2013
From: carlton_bach at yahoo.de (Volker Bach)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2013 07:44:06 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] [OT] Festschrift for Jaelle of Armida - Call for Papers
Message-ID: <1362296646.66790.YahooMailNeo@web171706.mail.ir2.yahoo.com>

Dear friends and fellow Society
members,

The death of our beloved friend Jaelle
of Armida is the sorrowful occasion of this call for contributions.
It is in memory of this truly exceptional, learned, generous and
strong-willed lady that we intend to put together a collection of
research articles in the form of a festschrift to be published both
in print and through the Drachenwald website. 

If you wish to contribute, we will
happily accept research articles, including translations of period
sources, in any of the following fields:

	* heraldry
	* onomastics
	* cookery and dietetics
	* period manners and customs

Contributions should be no longer than 
5,500 words (ca fifteen 12pt, 1.5 spaced A4 pages) and will be needed
by 19 July 2013 (i.e. the first day of Pennsic War) in electronic
form. If you would like to volunteer to contribute an article, please
let us know by 1 June. 

Needless to say, we want to publish
original research to which you hold the copyright and which is fully
sourced, with citations and bibliography. If you wish to include
images, please obtain and include the permission of the copyright
holder (or, if you hold copyright, just include it).  Please do not
embed images within word-processed documents. Instead, send them as
separate attachments. Do feel free to make suggestions as to where
images should be placed within the text.

Any questions you have can be addressed
to the editors:

Aryanhwy merch Catmael (mka Sara
Uckelman): sara.uckelman at asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de

Celemon Bleiddiast Gwynedd (mka
Kristina Hildebrand): kristina_hildebrand at yahoo.se 

Giano Balestriere (mka Volker Bach):
carlton_bach at yahoo.de 

Ariel of Lindisfarne (mka Ellen
Rawson): silme13 at yahoo.com

We are grateful for all contributions
and hope to make this book a source of useful and intriguing
knowledge worthy of Magistra Jaelle.
YIS

GIano

From alysk at ix.netcom.com  Sun Mar  3 04:04:15 2013
From: alysk at ix.netcom.com (Elise Fleming)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2013 07:04:15 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Jaelle of Armida?
Message-ID: <51333C3F.9000701@ix.netcom.com>

Greetings!  I get the digest, so perhaps this has already been 
mentioned, but is it true that Jaelle of Armida has died?

Alys K.
-- 
Elise Fleming
alysk at ix.netcom.com
alyskatharine at gmail.com
http://damealys.medievalcookery.com/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8311418 at N08/sets/

From carlton_bach at yahoo.de  Sun Mar  3 04:39:58 2013
From: carlton_bach at yahoo.de (Volker Bach)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2013 12:39:58 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Jaelle of Armida?
In-Reply-To: <51333C3F.9000701@ix.netcom.com>
References: <51333C3F.9000701@ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <1362314398.99475.YahooMailNeo@web171706.mail.ir2.yahoo.com>

Sadly, yes. Her husband notified us yesterday. She died two days ago, in her sleep.

We are in the process of putting together an essay collection in her honour, and the Kingdom of Drachwenwald is planning to hold a Silver guard memorial tourney for the order's only nonfighting member. 

YIS

Giano




________________________________
 Von: Elise Fleming <alysk at ix.netcom.com>
An: sca-cooks <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org> 
Gesendet: 13:04 Sonntag, 3.M?rz 2013
Betreff: [Sca-cooks] Jaelle of Armida?
 
Greetings!? I get the digest, so perhaps this has already been mentioned, but is it true that Jaelle of Armida has died?

Alys K.
-- Elise Fleming
alysk at ix.netcom.com
alyskatharine at gmail.com
http://damealys.medievalcookery.com/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8311418 at N08/sets/
_______________________________________________
Sca-cooks mailing list
Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org

From johnnae at mac.com  Sun Mar  3 12:42:54 2013
From: johnnae at mac.com (Johnna Holloway)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2013 15:42:54 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Not Dormice but muskrats
Message-ID: <713FEA5D-6ED8-4AA1-9506-744C5ADB72D6@mac.com>

And apparently the meat tastes like turkey, and not chicken!
From the Detroit News March 2, 2013
Annual Monroe dinner offers a taste of history: Muskrat

Event celebrates rodent that has a flavor 'like a strong, dark turkey meat'

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20130302/METRO/303020355/1409/metro/Annual-Monroe-dinner-offers-taste-history-Muskrat

Johnnae

From alysk at ix.netcom.com  Mon Mar  4 14:56:07 2013
From: alysk at ix.netcom.com (Elise Fleming)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2013 17:56:07 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Not Dormice but muskrats
Message-ID: <51352687.8020807@ix.netcom.com>

Johnnae sent:
 >And apparently the meat tastes like turkey, and not chicken!
 >>From the Detroit News March 2, 2013
 >>Annual Monroe dinner offers a taste of history: Muskrat

 >Event celebrates rodent that has a flavor 'like a strong, dark turkey 
 >meat'

 >http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20130302/METRO/303020355/1409/metro/Annual-Monroe-dinner-offers-taste-history-Muskrat

Well!  That gives us something to do with the inhabitants of the four 
newly-built muskrat lodges behind our row of homes!

Alys K.
-- 
Elise Fleming
alysk at ix.netcom.com
alyskatharine at gmail.com
http://damealys.medievalcookery.com/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8311418 at N08/sets/

From StefanliRous at austin.rr.com  Mon Mar  4 17:13:19 2013
From: StefanliRous at austin.rr.com (Stefan li Rous)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2013 19:13:19 -0600
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Not Dormice but muskrats
Message-ID: <B3C6EEAF-7D84-4B15-8474-4EFE39E15FB5@austin.rr.com>

<<< And apparently the meat tastes like turkey, and not chicken!
From the Detroit News March 2, 2013
Annual Monroe dinner offers a taste of history: Muskrat

Event celebrates rodent that has a flavor 'like a strong, dark turkey meat' >>>

But for those thinking that this would be just the meat for your next SCA feast, they are native to North America and weren't introduced to Europe until the 20th century, according to Wikapedia.

Stefan

PS: For all those going to Gulf Wars, I wish you a lot of fun! I wish I was going to be there with you.

--------
THLord Stefan li Rous    Barony of Bryn Gwlad    Kingdom of Ansteorra
   Mark S. Harris           Austin, Texas          StefanliRous at austin.rr.com
http://www.linkedin.com/in/marksharris
**** See Stefan's Florilegium files at:  http://www.florilegium.org ****







From t.d.decker at att.net  Mon Mar  4 18:35:57 2013
From: t.d.decker at att.net (Terry Decker)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2013 20:35:57 -0600
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Not Dormice but muskrats
In-Reply-To: <B3C6EEAF-7D84-4B15-8474-4EFE39E15FB5@austin.rr.com>
References: <B3C6EEAF-7D84-4B15-8474-4EFE39E15FB5@austin.rr.com>
Message-ID: <0131358777614AE48E8D2EECB30DE330@TerryPC>


> <<< And apparently the meat tastes like turkey, and not chicken!
> From the Detroit News March 2, 2013
> Annual Monroe dinner offers a taste of history: Muskrat
>
> Event celebrates rodent that has a flavor 'like a strong, dark turkey 
> meat' >>>
>
> But for those thinking that this would be just the meat for your next SCA 
> feast, they are native to North America and weren't introduced to Europe 
> until the 20th century, according to Wikapedia.
>
> Stefan

I have no idea of the taste, but the muskrat niche in Europe was that of the 
European water vole (Arvicola amphibius).  It is roughly 1/8 to 1/4 of the 
size of a muskrat.

Bear 


From alysk at ix.netcom.com  Tue Mar  5 06:21:18 2013
From: alysk at ix.netcom.com (Elise Fleming)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2013 09:21:18 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Cockentrice
Message-ID: <5135FF5E.2080701@ix.netcom.com>

Greetings!  Here's a link to a cockentrice that you might find interesting:
http://mountsbridgewater.wordpress.com/2013/03/05/behold-xaviers-cockentrice/

I'm not sure that it's a full cockentrice with the back part of a pig, 
but the front is certainly...interesting!

Alys K.
-- 
Elise Fleming
alysk at ix.netcom.com
alyskatharine at gmail.com
http://damealys.medievalcookery.com/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8311418 at N08/sets/

From drakey at internode.on.net  Wed Mar  6 02:43:52 2013
From: drakey at internode.on.net (Craig Jones)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2013 20:43:52 +1000
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Cockentrice
In-Reply-To: <5135FF5E.2080701@ix.netcom.com>
References: <5135FF5E.2080701@ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <51371DE8.5090304@internode.on.net>

On 6/03/2013 12:21 AM, Elise Fleming wrote:
> Greetings! Here's a link to a cockentrice that you might find 
> interesting:
> http://mountsbridgewater.wordpress.com/2013/03/05/behold-xaviers-cockentrice/ 
>
>
> I'm not sure that it's a full cockentrice with the back part of a pig, 
> but the front is certainly...interesting!
>
> Alys K.

I did some thing similar last year - freaked the hell out of my barony...

Behold:

Sir Steggles:

http://www.diningwiththekhan.com/sir-steggles.html

Drakey.

From ggorsuch at gmail.com  Wed Mar  6 08:16:23 2013
From: ggorsuch at gmail.com (Glenn Gorsuch)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2013 08:16:23 -0800
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Pantry raid...
Message-ID: <CAFoYnQ00As5+Yq+2uvy5N4jd=Y13dedCv6VF6CoBv8TcjvRwKw@mail.gmail.com>

Yes, I know Alton Brown used the line first.

However, I was starting to create a packing list for the West Coast Cooking
Symposium at the end of the month (Yay!  Symposium!  Yay!  Lists!), and one
of the "classes" will be time to use our period cookware to cook over fires
(Yay!  Pots with feet!).

So, I started thinking this morning over breakfast.  What sorts of things
would I, and this august grouping of medieval culinary hooligans, think
would be essentials for the medieval pantry?  Ideally, stuff that would be
pretty shelf-stable, or could easily be added at the last minute, without
need for an ice chest.  Things that would allow one to create a wide
assortment of period dishes.

So far, in just a few minutes, I've come up with:

a loaf of bread (last minute add)
bottle of verjus
almonds
my herb and spice collection (known as the "Spice Weasel")
pilloncillo sugar cone
flour (mix of whole wheat and unbleached AP), also rice flour
oil
wine or cider vinegar
salt
chicken and beef boullions (yes, they're cr at p, but they make a fast
starting point)
dried peas, lentils, barley, rice, chickpeas
eggs (last minute add)
wine (red or white)

Wht else would you consider an essential?

From cmupythia at cmu.edu  Wed Mar  6 08:41:19 2013
From: cmupythia at cmu.edu (Gretchen R Beck)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2013 16:41:19 +0000
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Pantry raid...
In-Reply-To: <CAFoYnQ00As5+Yq+2uvy5N4jd=Y13dedCv6VF6CoBv8TcjvRwKw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFoYnQ00As5+Yq+2uvy5N4jd=Y13dedCv6VF6CoBv8TcjvRwKw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56DDB644A1AF6E4CB5CF6CB8B50FCDB40218CB87@PGH-MSGMB-03.andrew.ad.cmu.edu>

Raisins, prunes, dates, figs

toodles, margaret

________________________________________
From: sca-cooks-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org [sca-cooks-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org] on behalf of Glenn Gorsuch [ggorsuch at gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2013 11:16 AM
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Pantry raid...

Yes, I know Alton Brown used the line first.

However, I was starting to create a packing list for the West Coast Cooking
Symposium at the end of the month (Yay!  Symposium!  Yay!  Lists!), and one
of the "classes" will be time to use our period cookware to cook over fires
(Yay!  Pots with feet!).

So, I started thinking this morning over breakfast.  What sorts of things
would I, and this august grouping of medieval culinary hooligans, think
would be essentials for the medieval pantry?  Ideally, stuff that would be
pretty shelf-stable, or could easily be added at the last minute, without
need for an ice chest.  Things that would allow one to create a wide
assortment of period dishes.

So far, in just a few minutes, I've come up with:

a loaf of bread (last minute add)
bottle of verjus
almonds
my herb and spice collection (known as the "Spice Weasel")
pilloncillo sugar cone
flour (mix of whole wheat and unbleached AP), also rice flour
oil
wine or cider vinegar
salt
chicken and beef boullions (yes, they're cr at p, but they make a fast
starting point)
dried peas, lentils, barley, rice, chickpeas
eggs (last minute add)
wine (red or white)

Wht else would you consider an essential?
_______________________________________________
Sca-cooks mailing list
Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org

From rcarrollmann at gmail.com  Wed Mar  6 08:44:22 2013
From: rcarrollmann at gmail.com (Robin Carroll-Mann)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2013 11:44:22 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Pantry raid...
In-Reply-To: <CAFoYnQ00As5+Yq+2uvy5N4jd=Y13dedCv6VF6CoBv8TcjvRwKw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFoYnQ00As5+Yq+2uvy5N4jd=Y13dedCv6VF6CoBv8TcjvRwKw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+tVTMJaGz2O-0tuBYcQtT8=Oof_inNZM_Sgf37Ve147=iTSuQ@mail.gmail.com>

Honey, hazelnuts, walnuts, pomegranate molasses, quince paste.

Brighid ni Chiarain

From david at vastrepast.com  Wed Mar  6 08:50:48 2013
From: david at vastrepast.com (David Walddon)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2013 08:50:48 -0800
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Pantry raid...
In-Reply-To: <CA+tVTMJaGz2O-0tuBYcQtT8=Oof_inNZM_Sgf37Ve147=iTSuQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFoYnQ00As5+Yq+2uvy5N4jd=Y13dedCv6VF6CoBv8TcjvRwKw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+tVTMJaGz2O-0tuBYcQtT8=Oof_inNZM_Sgf37Ve147=iTSuQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <47372654-C704-42B5-9668-186EE2422270@vastrepast.com>

Saba!


On Mar 6, 2013, at 8:44 AM, Robin Carroll-Mann wrote:

> Honey, hazelnuts, walnuts, pomegranate molasses, quince paste.
> 
> Brighid ni Chiarain
> _______________________________________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org


From ddfr at daviddfriedman.com  Wed Mar  6 11:30:18 2013
From: ddfr at daviddfriedman.com (David Friedman)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2013 11:30:18 -0800
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Pantry raid...
In-Reply-To: <CAFoYnQ00As5+Yq+2uvy5N4jd=Y13dedCv6VF6CoBv8TcjvRwKw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFoYnQ00As5+Yq+2uvy5N4jd=Y13dedCv6VF6CoBv8TcjvRwKw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5137994A.1020903@daviddfriedman.com>

Steel cut oats, for oat cakes.

As an alternative or substitute for your loaf of bread, Bread of Abu 
Hamsa from al-Warraq (small flat breads that keep well). Also some 
cracker/cookie type things that keep well, such as al-Warraq's crumbly 
crackers.

Sekanjabin syrup.

And I'm not sure if it counts as pantry, but we always bring to Pennsic 
various pre-made nibbles that keep, such as hais, khushkananaj, prince 
biscuit, hulwa, ....  .

On 3/6/13 8:16 AM, Glenn Gorsuch wrote:
> Yes, I know Alton Brown used the line first.
>
> However, I was starting to create a packing list for the West Coast Cooking
> Symposium at the end of the month (Yay!  Symposium!  Yay!  Lists!), and one
> of the "classes" will be time to use our period cookware to cook over fires
> (Yay!  Pots with feet!).
>
> So, I started thinking this morning over breakfast.  What sorts of things
> would I, and this august grouping of medieval culinary hooligans, think
> would be essentials for the medieval pantry?  Ideally, stuff that would be
> pretty shelf-stable, or could easily be added at the last minute, without
> need for an ice chest.  Things that would allow one to create a wide
> assortment of period dishes.
>
> So far, in just a few minutes, I've come up with:
>
> a loaf of bread (last minute add)
> bottle of verjus
> almonds
> my herb and spice collection (known as the "Spice Weasel")
> pilloncillo sugar cone
> flour (mix of whole wheat and unbleached AP), also rice flour
> oil
> wine or cider vinegar
> salt
> chicken and beef boullions (yes, they're cr at p, but they make a fast
> starting point)
> dried peas, lentils, barley, rice, chickpeas
> eggs (last minute add)
> wine (red or white)
>
> Wht else would you consider an essential?
> _______________________________________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org
>
>

-- 
David/Cariadoc
www.daviddfriedman.com
http://daviddfriedman.blogspot.com/


From galefridus at optimum.net  Wed Mar  6 12:37:47 2013
From: galefridus at optimum.net (galefridus at optimum.net)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2013 20:37:47 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Pantry raid...
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1362600330.38265.sca-cooks-ansteorra.org@lists.ansteorra.org>
References: <mailman.1.1362600330.38265.sca-cooks-ansteorra.org@lists.ansteorra.org>
Message-ID: <e5abfa4425e28.5137a91b@optonline.net>

In addition to what others have listed, I'd supplement the oil with a few animal fats --?Ghee, duck or goose fat, etc. I'd also pack some soy sauce or maggi sauce, both of which can be used as substitutes for murri, which plays a significant role in the kind of cooking I play with. I'd add olives and possibly capers as well.

-- Galefidus

> Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2013 08:16:23 -0800
> From: Glenn Gorsuch 
> To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> Subject: [Sca-cooks] Pantry raid...
> Message-ID:
> 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> 
> Yes, I know Alton Brown used the line first.
> 
> However, I was starting to create a packing list for the West 
> Coast Cooking
> Symposium at the end of the month (Yay! Symposium! Yay! 
> Lists!), and one
> of the "classes" will be time to use our period cookware to cook 
> over fires
> (Yay! Pots with feet!).
> 
> So, I started thinking this morning over breakfast. What sorts 
> of things
> would I, and this august grouping of medieval culinary 
> hooligans, think
> would be essentials for the medieval pantry? Ideally, stuff 
> that would be
> pretty shelf-stable, or could easily be added at the last 
> minute, without
> need for an ice chest. Things that would allow one to create a wide
> assortment of period dishes.
> 
> So far, in just a few minutes, I've come up with:
> 
> a loaf of bread (last minute add)
> bottle of verjus
> almonds
> my herb and spice collection (known as the "Spice Weasel")
> pilloncillo sugar cone
> flour (mix of whole wheat and unbleached AP), also rice flour
> oil
> wine or cider vinegar
> salt
> chicken and beef boullions (yes, they're cr at p, but they make a fast
> starting point)
> dried peas, lentils, barley, rice, chickpeas
> eggs (last minute add)
> wine (red or white)
> 
> Wht else would you consider an essential?

From johnnae at mac.com  Wed Mar  6 12:56:03 2013
From: johnnae at mac.com (Johnna Holloway)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2013 15:56:03 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Pantry raid...
In-Reply-To: <CAFoYnQ00As5+Yq+2uvy5N4jd=Y13dedCv6VF6CoBv8TcjvRwKw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFoYnQ00As5+Yq+2uvy5N4jd=Y13dedCv6VF6CoBv8TcjvRwKw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <193A1B7B-F435-45EB-A631-500113C76A37@mac.com>

Depends on the century and country but maybe oats and certainly honey.

Pepper of various grinds. 

Recipes.

Appropriate spits.

scouring pads etc to clean the pots and pottery

Johnnae

Sent from my iPad

On Mar 6, 2013, at 11:16 AM, Glenn Gorsuch <ggorsuch at gmail.com> wrote:

> Yes, I know Alton Brown used the line first.
> 
> However, I was starting to create a packing list for the West Coast Cooking
> Symposium at the end of the month (Yay!  Symposium!  Yay!  Lists!), and one
> of the "classes" will be time to use our period cookware to cook over fires
> (Yay!  Pots with feet!).

From morgana.abbey at juno.com  Wed Mar  6 12:57:14 2013
From: morgana.abbey at juno.com (morgana.abbey at juno.com)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2013 20:57:14 GMT
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Pantry Raid
Message-ID: <20130306.155714.30555.0@webmail02.vgs.untd.com>

whatever is seasonal in the fruit and veg dept



____________________________________________________________
Fast, Secure, NetZero 4G Mobile Broadband. Try it.
http://www.netzero.net/?refcd=NZINTISP0512T4GOUT2

From chimene at ravensgard.org  Wed Mar  6 13:00:21 2013
From: chimene at ravensgard.org (Patricia Dunham)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2013 13:00:21 -0800
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Pantry raid...
In-Reply-To: <CAFoYnQ00As5+Yq+2uvy5N4jd=Y13dedCv6VF6CoBv8TcjvRwKw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFoYnQ00As5+Yq+2uvy5N4jd=Y13dedCv6VF6CoBv8TcjvRwKw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <232C7CD7-D089-4C97-897D-FC3B1C7C9437@ravensgard.org>

I would think some kind of smallish bread roll, rather than a loaf, if leavened breads were kept around at all? (rather than being fresh-baked within a day or two??) 

unflavored stuffing croutons -- I was under the impression that at some point, dried bread crumbs were used for thickening, flour-roux thickening came "later"?

cheeses? dry types for keeping... or would dairy products (cheeses, butter, etc.) be in the dairy rather than the pantry?

butter, maybe fancy fermented European types???

barley flour, oat flour, rye flour - lower class but possibly more common than whole wheat 

Oh, I didn't recognize "saba", so... is this about right? 
	"a syrup made from freshly squeezed grape juice, also known as must. ... contains many of the sugars naturally present in the grape, and when slowly cooked into a syrup, it develops into a very rich, concentrated material which can be used in a wide assortment of ways. Saba is most closely associated with Abruzzese cuisine in Italy, as well as other regions of Italy... This [stuff] has been made since Roman times, when it was known as defrutum or sapa. Cooks made sapa by cooking huge batches of must over an extended period of time in large cauldrons, allowing the mixture to slowly develop into a syrup and controlling the cooking process so that the sugars did not burn..."

keeping types of fruit & veg, definitely apples & carrots, for instance. quinces, turnips, parsnips, rutabaga???

add fava or broad beans to the legumes

add steel-cut or whole-grain wheat, for frumenty?

lard, other rendered fats (duck fat; goose grease; and we keep a little pot of bacon grease in the frig, I like it better for fried eggs, than olive oil)

MAYBE?? walnut oil, almond oil??? does almond oil separate off, if you let almond milk sit long enough???

this is fun, 8-)
chimene & gerek


On Mar 6, 2013, at 8:16 AM, Glenn Gorsuch wrote:

> Yes, I know Alton Brown used the line first.
> 
> However, I was starting to create a packing list for the West Coast Cooking
> Symposium at the end of the month (Yay!  Symposium!  Yay!  Lists!), and one
> of the "classes" will be time to use our period cookware to cook over fires
> (Yay!  Pots with feet!).
> 
> So, I started thinking this morning over breakfast.  What sorts of things
> would I, and this august grouping of medieval culinary hooligans, think
> would be essentials for the medieval pantry?  Ideally, stuff that would be
> pretty shelf-stable, or could easily be added at the last minute, without
> need for an ice chest.  Things that would allow one to create a wide
> assortment of period dishes.
> 
> So far, in just a few minutes, I've come up with:
> 
> a loaf of bread (last minute add)
> bottle of verjus
> almonds
> my herb and spice collection (known as the "Spice Weasel")
> pilloncillo sugar cone
> flour (mix of whole wheat and unbleached AP), also rice flour
> oil
> wine or cider vinegar
> salt
> chicken and beef boullions (yes, they're cr at p, but they make a fast
> starting point)
> dried peas, lentils, barley, rice, chickpeas
> eggs (last minute add)
> wine (red or white)
> 
> Wht else would you consider an essential?
> _______________________________________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org


From chimene at ravensgard.org  Wed Mar  6 13:03:16 2013
From: chimene at ravensgard.org (Patricia Dunham)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2013 13:03:16 -0800
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Pantry raid...
In-Reply-To: <CAFoYnQ00As5+Yq+2uvy5N4jd=Y13dedCv6VF6CoBv8TcjvRwKw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFoYnQ00As5+Yq+2uvy5N4jd=Y13dedCv6VF6CoBv8TcjvRwKw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8D7936FA-BDDD-4F3E-9E1B-8861F9000C8F@ravensgard.org>

of course, I sent just as Himself came up with...

salt fish

dried & smoked & salted meats of all sorts!

how far back do double-baked breads & pastries go? (biscotti?) one would expect drier items to keep better

ch/ger



From johnnae at mac.com  Wed Mar  6 13:15:56 2013
From: johnnae at mac.com (Johnna Holloway)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2013 16:15:56 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Pantry raid...
In-Reply-To: <232C7CD7-D089-4C97-897D-FC3B1C7C9437@ravensgard.org>
References: <CAFoYnQ00As5+Yq+2uvy5N4jd=Y13dedCv6VF6CoBv8TcjvRwKw@mail.gmail.com>
	<232C7CD7-D089-4C97-897D-FC3B1C7C9437@ravensgard.org>
Message-ID: <92DA1ECC-142A-4C80-A776-5A48B34C233C@mac.com>

West Coast Culinary Symposium
http://dragonsmist.antir.sca.org/index.php/wccs/

Not to throw a damper on the cooking with fire, but 
I suppose the question one might ask is how much one needs for a two hour class.
Cooking play time, in the fire- first hour & Wafffles!
Cooking play time, in the fire, second hour

You might want to pare down and take less so that you don't return with it all never touched or used.
If it were several hours, then one might bring more and use it, but this is a limited time period.

I'm sorry I can't attend this year but the son is graduating and we have his senior show to attend.

Johnnae 


> On Mar 6, 2013, at 8:16 AM, Glenn Gorsuch wrote:
> 
>> Yes, I know Alton Brown used the line first.
>> 
>> However, I was starting to create a packing list for the West Coast Cooking
>> Symposium at the end of the month (Yay!  Symposium!  Yay!  Lists!), and one
>> of the "classes" will be time to use our period cookware to cook over fires
>> (Yay!  Pots with feet!).

From t.d.decker at att.net  Wed Mar  6 14:29:36 2013
From: t.d.decker at att.net (Terry Decker)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2013 16:29:36 -0600
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Pantry raid...
In-Reply-To: <CAFoYnQ00As5+Yq+2uvy5N4jd=Y13dedCv6VF6CoBv8TcjvRwKw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFoYnQ00As5+Yq+2uvy5N4jd=Y13dedCv6VF6CoBv8TcjvRwKw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <88629D7ED383421CBE8F655F21FDFA82@TerryPC>

Refined cane sugar.  Technically, it should be white cone or loaf sugar, but 
one does what one must.

Bear 


From t.d.decker at att.net  Wed Mar  6 14:51:50 2013
From: t.d.decker at att.net (Terry Decker)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2013 16:51:50 -0600
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Pantry raid...
In-Reply-To: <232C7CD7-D089-4C97-897D-FC3B1C7C9437@ravensgard.org>
References: <CAFoYnQ00As5+Yq+2uvy5N4jd=Y13dedCv6VF6CoBv8TcjvRwKw@mail.gmail.com>
	<232C7CD7-D089-4C97-897D-FC3B1C7C9437@ravensgard.org>
Message-ID: <FCE71715C2534FE08CE174873851DAE2@TerryPC>


>I would think some kind of smallish bread roll, rather than a loaf, if 
>leavened breads were kept around at all? (rather than being fresh-baked 
>within a day or two??)
>

A wheat loaf with a relatively thick crust will last roughly four days 
uncut.  A larger loaf holds moisture better.  Availability of bread depended 
largely on whether or not an oven was available.  And I will point out that 
the question was about a Medieval pantry, the primary purpose of which is to 
store the bread.

> unflavored stuffing croutons -- I was under the impression that at some 
> point, dried bread crumbs were used for thickening, flour-roux thickening 
> came "later"?

A stale roll (like the three I have in a bag on the counter) works fine as 
well.  You will find a recipe or two that starts with what appears to be 
roux in Sabina Welserin.

> barley flour, oat flour, rye flour - lower class but possibly more common 
> than whole wheat
>
>
> this is fun, 8-)
> chimene & gerek


Available flours are generally dependent upon region and the trade routes, 
but for the European nobility, fine wheat flour was the preference.

Bear


From t.d.decker at att.net  Wed Mar  6 15:09:30 2013
From: t.d.decker at att.net (Terry Decker)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2013 17:09:30 -0600
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Pantry raid...
In-Reply-To: <8D7936FA-BDDD-4F3E-9E1B-8861F9000C8F@ravensgard.org>
References: <CAFoYnQ00As5+Yq+2uvy5N4jd=Y13dedCv6VF6CoBv8TcjvRwKw@mail.gmail.com>
	<8D7936FA-BDDD-4F3E-9E1B-8861F9000C8F@ravensgard.org>
Message-ID: <EFDA266074D84D95A7253B36CD4AEFF1@TerryPC>

>
> how far back do double-baked breads & pastries go? (biscotti?) one would 
> expect drier items to keep better
>
> ch/ger

Panis biscotus.  Twice baked bread.  The Egyptians had something of the 
sort.  The Romans had bucellum.  King Richard had biskits of muslin (maslin, 
mixed grain) on the 3rd Crusade.  Rusks and hardtack were prepared 
commercially in Italy during the Middle Ages for various sea ventures. 
They've been around almost for forever.

Bear 


From donnaegreen at yahoo.com  Wed Mar  6 15:22:41 2013
From: donnaegreen at yahoo.com (Donna Green)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2013 15:22:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Pantry raid...
In-Reply-To: <mailman.158262.1362611379.34820.sca-cooks-ansteorra.org@lists.ansteorra.org>
Message-ID: <1362612161.17374.YahooMailClassic@web140901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

> Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2013 16:15:56 -0500
> From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>
> To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Pantry raid...
> 
> West Coast Culinary Symposium
> http://dragonsmist.antir.sca.org/index.php/wccs/
> 
> Not to throw a damper on the cooking with fire, but 
> I suppose the question one might ask is how much one needs
> for a two hour class.
> Cooking play time, in the fire- first hour & Wafffles!
> Cooking play time, in the fire, second hour
> 
> You might want to pare down and take less so that you don't
> return with it all never touched or used.
> If it were several hours, then one might bring more and use
> it, but this is a limited time period.

Yes, the class time is short at the symposium compared to this wonderful shopping list, but he can be pre-packed for the Cooks Play Date at West An Tir War ... several days (4 or 5) of cooking over fire in pots with feet :-) and since the suggestions are mostly non-perishable, once this portable pantry is assembled for the symposium, he can leave it packed and ready to go.

Juana Isabella
   Looking forward to the PPFIII this weekend, then Culinary Symposium at the end of the month and then to start planning for the Cooks Play Date :-)

From mneumark at hotmail.com  Wed Mar  6 17:30:03 2013
From: mneumark at hotmail.com (Mercy Neumark)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2013 17:30:03 -0800
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Last minute: things to do with sausage
Message-ID: <BLU405-EAS67D4FFBA9008567E638ECFC9E50@phx.gbl>

Hello list!

I have been researching and trying to come up with a tourney dish for using up some period German sausages I made. I've had a great help from Ranvaig with suggestions of salad.  I'm wondering if there might be something else I can use these sausages with? Is there any documentation for sausage being used in a tart (quiche like) or possibly another pre-made item that needs no refrigeration?

I have the salad set but I'm just not feeling excited by it. Any suggestions would be appreciated. 

Thanks!

--Mercy

Sent from my iPhone
Please excuse any typos or odd autocorrection errors

From johnnae at mac.com  Wed Mar  6 17:34:17 2013
From: johnnae at mac.com (Johnna Holloway)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2013 20:34:17 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Last minute: things to do with sausage
In-Reply-To: <BLU405-EAS67D4FFBA9008567E638ECFC9E50@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU405-EAS67D4FFBA9008567E638ECFC9E50@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <627B9957-D168-4C6D-A4EB-7CF13FB2F8CF@mac.com>


After some searching I came across this recipe from OldCook. http://www.oldcook.com/en/cooking-recipes_medieval
Sausages with apples, cinnamon and nutmeg

from Saulcisses en potage, Lancelot de Casteau,
Ouverture de cuisine, 1585.

Ingredients (1 tsp = 1 teaspoon)
4 smoked sausages (about 700g)
1,1 kg of tart apples
340g onions
40g butter
3 tablespoons of sugar (30 g maxi)
200g of red wine
3/4tsp cinnamon
1/2tsp nutmeg
pinch of salt.

Recipe (cuisson = 3/4 h)
Brown the sausages with butter (reserve), brown the onions which have been cut into rings (reserve), and brown the apples which have been cut into pieces.

Add the sausages, apples, and onions in a pot with wine, sugar, salt, and spices. Cover and cook for 30 min.

This is an excerpt from Ouverture de Cuisine
(France, 1604 - Daniel Myers, trans.)
The original source can be found at MedievalCookery.com

Sausages in Pottage. Take sausages, & fry them in butter, then take four or five peeled apples & cut into small quarters, & four or five onions cut into rings, & fry them in butter, & put all of them into a pot with the sausages, & put therein nutmeg, cinnamon, with red or white wine, sugar, & let them then all stew.

Johnnae

On Mar 6, 2013, at 8:30 PM, Mercy Neumark wrote:

> Hello list!
> 
> I have been researching and trying to come up with a tourney dish for using up some period German sausages I made. I've had a great help from Ranvaig with suggestions of salad.  I'm wondering if there might be something else I can use these sausages with? Is there any documentation for sausage being used in a tart (quiche like) or possibly another pre-made item that needs no refrigeration?
> 
> I have the salad set but I'm just not feeling excited by it. Any suggestions would be appreciated. 
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> --Mercy


From alysk at ix.netcom.com  Wed Mar  6 18:35:47 2013
From: alysk at ix.netcom.com (Elise Fleming)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2013 21:35:47 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Pantry Raid
Message-ID: <5137FD03.9080609@ix.netcom.com>

 From the looks of the lists, the kitchen's owner might need to put on 
an addition!

Alys K.
-- 
Elise Fleming
alysk at ix.netcom.com
alyskatharine at gmail.com
http://damealys.medievalcookery.com/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8311418 at N08/sets/

From lilinah at earthlink.net  Wed Mar  6 20:01:52 2013
From: lilinah at earthlink.net (lilinah at earthlink.net)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2013 23:01:52 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Pantry raid...
Message-ID: <7445402.1362628912714.JavaMail.root@elwamui-cypress.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Cooking from Arabic language cookbooks, my pantry would need what i list below. The pantries of the anonymous Andalusian, in the Western Arabic speaking world, and al-Baghdadi, in the Eastern Arabic speaking world, and both from the 13th c., are significantly different - i've compared them on my website. Below is a composite list.

SPICES
Pepper - i am sensitive to something in the skins of black peppercorns, so i prefer white
Coriander seed
Cinnamon, preferably Ceylon or True Cinnamon
Cumin
Saffron
Ginger
Gum Mastic
Sumac
Caraway
Spikenard (Nardostachys jatamansi, Valerianaceae) or the American substitute
Cloves
Galangal
Nigella seeds
Mustard

HERBS
Spearmint (fresh)
Cilantro / coriander greens (fresh)
Celery leaves (no pesky stalks) (fresh)
Dill weed  (fresh - dried in a pinch)
Parsley (fresh)
Thyme & Marjoram, as a substitute for Zatar which is any of a number of related plants that grow in Southwest Asia, historically known as The Levant or Greater Syria (fresh preferred)
Rue (if i could find it)
Citrus tree leaves - preferably citron, but lemon will do - fresh preferred
Lavender buds, dried

MISC
1. Murri
--- light soy sauce, according to Charles Perry
--- i tasted someone else's homemade murri at Pennsic 2011 - it tasted close to Thai fish sauce without being fishy, if that makes any sense
--- several recipes say not to use fake / Byzantine murri
2. Rose water

SOURING AGENTS
1. Wine Vinegar
--- i prefer white, but i'm not sure if red or white is more historically accurate
2. Lemon Juice
3. Sumac Juice (yes, i have a bottle :-)
4. Pomegranate Juice, unsweetened - or sour pomegranate "molasses"/nardenk
5. Sour Grape Juice (verjus, abghurah, hisrim)

SWEETENERS
1. Sugar - For the type of cooking i do - and for most noble cooking - pilloncillo wouldn't really be appropriate - it's brown and damp. White sugar is more appropriate. Also, for some cooking - rock sugar.
Question for the combined wisdom: Would turbinado or demerara sugars be as or more appropriate than white? Turbinado is usually off-white or pale beige with crystals larger than standard white sugar. Demerara is more pale brown, and tends to have crystals that are larger and more irregular than Turbinado.
2. Honey
3. Grape Syrup, Pekmez in modern Turkish

NUTS
Almonds
Walnuts
Pistachios
Pine nuts
Hazelnuts

ALLIA
Onions
Garlic

GRAINS / STARCHES
Semolina flour
Pastry flour
Rice
Lentils, red
Mung beans
Chickpeas
Fava beans

Urtatim
Who will also be making up a food list of things to bring for the classes i'm teaching at the Symposium

From ggorsuch at gmail.com  Wed Mar  6 21:00:58 2013
From: ggorsuch at gmail.com (Glenn Gorsuch)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2013 21:00:58 -0800
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Pantry Raid
Message-ID: <CAFoYnQ0bV1yze2uzwYgzx4gEq6Gkt=5fN+jyZ=n=ELqpuo7ppw@mail.gmail.com>

You folks are awesome.  Good thoughts from everyone.

Johnnae, your points are well made--in having cleaning supplies (but that's
for a different research project--I'll pack a scrubber sponge and dish soap
for now), having recipes ( oh blessed iPad), and in bringing too much
stuff.  I should admit that while the idea of the post was inspired by the
Symposium, there's also thoughts of upcoming Playdates or setting up a
hearth and oven in the side yard.  We're really going to miss you by the
way, Johnnae--it was great to meet you last year.

Bear, good to know about the lasting properties of bread.

Everyone else, great ideas--feel free to keep them coming!

Now, one thing that IS specifically for the Symposium.  There is a potluck
Friday night, again.  I was just given about 5 pounds of bear (NOT
Bear)...anyone have any brilliant ideas?

From StefanliRous at austin.rr.com  Wed Mar  6 21:19:32 2013
From: StefanliRous at austin.rr.com (Stefan li Rous)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2013 23:19:32 -0600
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Cockentrice
Message-ID: <146775C2-8BF7-4F56-8AE2-04B7F4D2D7B5@austin.rr.com>

<<< I did some thing similar last year - freaked the hell out of my barony...

Behold:

Sir Steggles:

http://www.diningwiththekhan.com/sir-steggles.html

Drakey. >>>

A self-portrait?

Stefan

--------
THLord Stefan li Rous    Barony of Bryn Gwlad    Kingdom of Ansteorra
   Mark S. Harris           Austin, Texas          StefanliRous at austin.rr.com
http://www.linkedin.com/in/marksharris
**** See Stefan's Florilegium files at:  http://www.florilegium.org ****







From ddfr at daviddfriedman.com  Wed Mar  6 21:31:31 2013
From: ddfr at daviddfriedman.com (David Friedman)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2013 21:31:31 -0800
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Pantry raid...
In-Reply-To: <7445402.1362628912714.JavaMail.root@elwamui-cypress.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <7445402.1362628912714.JavaMail.root@elwamui-cypress.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <51382633.6050807@daviddfriedman.com>


On 3/6/13 8:01 PM, lilinah at earthlink.net wrote:
> Rue (if i could find it)
Growing in our yard. You aren't that far away.

-- 
David Friedman
www.daviddfriedman.com
http://daviddfriedman.blogspot.com/


From StefanliRous at austin.rr.com  Wed Mar  6 21:32:29 2013
From: StefanliRous at austin.rr.com (Stefan li Rous)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2013 23:32:29 -0600
Subject: [Sca-cooks] period thickening agents
Message-ID: <DD8453F2-4760-47B4-ABDB-F6E5702676C8@austin.rr.com>

chimene & gerek said:
<<< unflavored stuffing croutons -- I was under the impression that at some point, dried bread crumbs were used for thickening, flour-roux thickening came "later"? >>>

Pretty much correct, although I might say bread crumbs used for thickening rather than flour. Or is flour almost always used as a roux as opposed to being added in as-is?

Some "gravies" started appearing a bit before 1600 but I don't think it was common.

Here are some of the previous discussions we've had on these topics, from the Florilegium.

breadcrumbs-msg (20K) 8/13/10 Obtaining bread crumbs for use in recipes.
http://www.florilegium.org/files/FOOD-BREADS/breadcrumbs-msg.html

gravy-msg (24K) 7/ 3/11 Period gravy. Renaissance, not medieval.
http://www.florilegium.org/files/FOOD-CONDIMENTS/gravy-msg.html

thickening-msg (29K) 6/11/10 Use of period food thickening agents.
http://www.florilegium.org/files/FOOD/thickening-msg.html

Stefan

--------
THLord Stefan li Rous    Barony of Bryn Gwlad    Kingdom of Ansteorra
   Mark S. Harris           Austin, Texas          StefanliRous at austin.rr.com
http://www.linkedin.com/in/marksharris
**** See Stefan's Florilegium files at:  http://www.florilegium.org ****







From ddfr at daviddfriedman.com  Wed Mar  6 21:32:57 2013
From: ddfr at daviddfriedman.com (David Friedman)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2013 21:32:57 -0800
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Pantry Raid
In-Reply-To: <CAFoYnQ0bV1yze2uzwYgzx4gEq6Gkt=5fN+jyZ=n=ELqpuo7ppw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFoYnQ0bV1yze2uzwYgzx4gEq6Gkt=5fN+jyZ=n=ELqpuo7ppw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <51382689.2040800@daviddfriedman.com>


On 3/6/13 9:00 PM, Glenn Gorsuch wrote:
> Bear, good to know about the lasting properties of bread.
Bread of abu Hamsa seems to stay good for a couple of weeks. So do 
crumbly crackers. Both from al-Warraq.

-- 
David/Cariadoc
www.daviddfriedman.com
http://daviddfriedman.blogspot.com/


From StefanliRous at austin.rr.com  Wed Mar  6 21:39:56 2013
From: StefanliRous at austin.rr.com (Stefan li Rous)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2013 23:39:56 -0600
Subject: [Sca-cooks] biscotti, twice-baked bread
Message-ID: <8B378B48-3013-475D-B9A6-3EB59403DE48@austin.rr.com>

ch/ger asked:
<<< how far back do double-baked breads & pastries go? (biscotti?) one would expect drier items to keep better >>>

Definitely as far back as period.

biscotti-msg (22K) 12/22/08 Period biscotti, a twice-baked travel bread.
http://www.florilegium.org/files/FOOD-BREADS/biscotti-msg.html

Litle-Morsels-art (18K) 6/23/06 "Little morsels or biscotti from 16th cent.
Italy" by Lady Helewyse de Birkestad.
http://www.florilegium.org/files/FOOD-BREADS/Litle-Morsels-art.html

Not quite as long-lasting as biscotti or hardtack, but I think used by the Norse on voyages and travels.
oatcakes-msg (28K) 9/ 5/09 Period oatcakes.
http://www.florilegium.org/files/FOOD-BREADS/oatcakes-msg.html

Worm-Castles-art (9K) 2/ 2/13 "Worm Castles: Ship?s Biscuits in the SCA"
by William "Cookie" Barfoot.
( Okay not online yet. Soon, though)

More travel food, not necessarily twice-baked bread:
travel-foods-msg (17K) 8/19/12 Period travel foods.
http://www.florilegium.org/files/TRAVEL/travel-foods-msg.html

Stefan
--------
THLord Stefan li Rous    Barony of Bryn Gwlad    Kingdom of Ansteorra
   Mark S. Harris           Austin, Texas          StefanliRous at austin.rr.com
http://www.linkedin.com/in/marksharris
**** See Stefan's Florilegium files at:  http://www.florilegium.org ****







From t.d.decker at att.net  Wed Mar  6 23:16:41 2013
From: t.d.decker at att.net (Terry Decker)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2013 01:16:41 -0600
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Pantry Raid
In-Reply-To: <5137FD03.9080609@ix.netcom.com>
References: <5137FD03.9080609@ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <A63406E6068349CF992BA352309CCC49@TerryPC>

Have you stopped to consider the size of a great household and what they 
required of the pantry on a daily basis?  One of the English households in 
the High Middle Ages had the Lord and Lady travelling seperately each with 
their own household.  He having 125 in his and she having 93 in hers.  Add 
in the staff at any manor where they took residence and you are looking at 
at least 500 pounds of bread per day.  The baker traveled several days in 
advance of the Lord's party, so that the pantry would be full when they 
arrived.  I'd really like to find a description of what was in the baggage 
train.

As for the spices, they wouldn't be in the pantry.  They would be in the 
possession of household clerk locked in a strongbox.

Bear


> From the looks of the lists, the kitchen's owner might need to put on an 
> addition!
>
> Alys K.
> -- 
> Elise Fleming


From johnnae at mac.com  Thu Mar  7 04:24:36 2013
From: johnnae at mac.com (Johnna Holloway)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2013 07:24:36 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Pantry Raid
In-Reply-To: <CAFoYnQ0bV1yze2uzwYgzx4gEq6Gkt=5fN+jyZ=n=ELqpuo7ppw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFoYnQ0bV1yze2uzwYgzx4gEq6Gkt=5fN+jyZ=n=ELqpuo7ppw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F7E84AE9-EFE9-465E-970C-D8D8CBB0E592@mac.com>

Depends on the cut. (Tongue is mentioned in some recipes.) 

Medievalcookery.com has a few and varied recipes.

http://www.medievalcookery.com/search/search.html?term=Bear&file=all

I've always heard that frozen cuts of bear meat are best stewed.

Johnna

Sent from my iPad

On Mar 7, 2013, at 12:00 AM, Glenn Gorsuch <ggorsuch at gmail.com> wrote:

> Now, one thing that IS specifically for the Symposium.  There is a potluck
> Friday night, again.  I was just given about 5 pounds of bear (NOT
> Bear)...anyone have any brilliant ideas?

From johnnae at mac.com  Thu Mar  7 04:30:14 2013
From: johnnae at mac.com (Johnna Holloway)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2013 07:30:14 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Pantry Raid
In-Reply-To: <CAFoYnQ0bV1yze2uzwYgzx4gEq6Gkt=5fN+jyZ=n=ELqpuo7ppw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFoYnQ0bV1yze2uzwYgzx4gEq6Gkt=5fN+jyZ=n=ELqpuo7ppw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7FB002D9-3124-4070-B90F-C2C872FF954E@mac.com>

I would have so loved a side trip to Powells ? just for browsing.


Johnnae

On Mar 7, 2013, at 12:00 AM, Glenn Gorsuch wrote:

> You folks are awesome.  Good thoughts from everyone.
> 
> Johnnae, your points are well made--in having cleaning supplies (but that's
> for a different research project--I'll pack a scrubber sponge and dish soap
> for now), having recipes ( oh blessed iPad), and in bringing too much
> stuff.  I should admit that while the idea of the post was inspired by the
> Symposium, there's also thoughts of upcoming Playdates or setting up a
> hearth and oven in the side yard.  We're really going to miss you by the
> way, Johnnae--it was great to meet you last year.

From agora158 at gmail.com  Thu Mar  7 04:31:15 2013
From: agora158 at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ana_Vald=E9s?=)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2013 10:31:15 -0200
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Pantry Raid
In-Reply-To: <F7E84AE9-EFE9-465E-970C-D8D8CBB0E592@mac.com>
References: <CAFoYnQ0bV1yze2uzwYgzx4gEq6Gkt=5fN+jyZ=n=ELqpuo7ppw@mail.gmail.com>
	<F7E84AE9-EFE9-465E-970C-D8D8CBB0E592@mac.com>
Message-ID: <CAFbYiEKXhrzhyqtSjt2MW1+nd-229RuqwkPgk8qx9wo03dQvOQ@mail.gmail.com>

I ate bear in the north of Sweden and in Finland. We had the heart (really
good, made in a saut?e of scallions and chantarelles, eaten with
lingonberries) and some steak. The people who did it told us how they did
it, they marinated it for two days in beer, juniper, honey and vineger to
tenderize it.
When it was tender enough it was done as deer meat or any other game, steak
or in casseroles, accompanied by chantarelles, potatis and carrots.
ana


On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 10:24 AM, Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com> wrote:

> Depends on the cut. (Tongue is mentioned in some recipes.)
>
> Medievalcookery.com has a few and varied recipes.
>
> http://www.medievalcookery.com/search/search.html?term=Bear&file=all
>
> I've always heard that frozen cuts of bear meat are best stewed.
>
> Johnna
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Mar 7, 2013, at 12:00 AM, Glenn Gorsuch <ggorsuch at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Now, one thing that IS specifically for the Symposium.  There is a
> potluck
> > Friday night, again.  I was just given about 5 pounds of bear (NOT
> > Bear)...anyone have any brilliant ideas?
> _______________________________________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org
>



-- 
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http://maraya.tumblr.com/
http://www.twitter.com/caravia158
http://www.scoop.it/t/art-and-activism/
http://www.scoop.it/t/food-history-and-trivia
http://www.scoop.it/t/gender-issues/
http://www.scoop.it/t/literary-exiles/
http://www.scoop.it/t/museums-and-ethics/
http://www.scoop.it/t/urbanism-3-0
http://www.scoop.it/t/postcolonial-mind/

cell Sweden +4670-3213370
cell Uruguay +598-99470758


"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with
your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you will always
long to return.
? Leonardo da Vinci

From drakey at internode.on.net  Thu Mar  7 04:40:12 2013
From: drakey at internode.on.net (Craig Jones)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2013 22:40:12 +1000
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Cockentrice
In-Reply-To: <146775C2-8BF7-4F56-8AE2-04B7F4D2D7B5@austin.rr.com>
References: <146775C2-8BF7-4F56-8AE2-04B7F4D2D7B5@austin.rr.com>
Message-ID: <51388AAC.5050007@internode.on.net>

On 7/03/2013 3:19 PM, Stefan li Rous wrote:
> Drakey. >>>
>
> A self-portrait?
>
> Stefan
>

:P

D.

From morgana at gci.net  Thu Mar  7 06:13:25 2013
From: morgana at gci.net (morgana)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2013 05:13:25 -0900
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Bear was, Pantry Raid
In-Reply-To: <CAFbYiEKXhrzhyqtSjt2MW1+nd-229RuqwkPgk8qx9wo03dQvOQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFoYnQ0bV1yze2uzwYgzx4gEq6Gkt=5fN+jyZ=n=ELqpuo7ppw@mail.gmail.com>
	<F7E84AE9-EFE9-465E-970C-D8D8CBB0E592@mac.com>
	<CAFbYiEKXhrzhyqtSjt2MW1+nd-229RuqwkPgk8qx9wo03dQvOQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <198805A3-FD1B-45A1-B732-7B36D8C0F7C6@gci.net>


Although I've lived in Alaska for almost 50 years, I only got to eat bear once. It was late summer bear, berry fed. It was sweet and juicy, and pan fried to just-done in its own fat. Yum.

Morgana, getting hungry just thinking about it

From galefridus at optimum.net  Thu Mar  7 08:24:30 2013
From: galefridus at optimum.net (galefridus at optimum.net)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2013 16:24:30 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Ethnic market epiphanies
In-Reply-To: <mailman.158640.1362634351.34820.sca-cooks-ansteorra.org@lists.ansteorra.org>
References: <mailman.158640.1362634351.34820.sca-cooks-ansteorra.org@lists.ansteorra.org>
Message-ID: <e5febb4627b09.5138bf3e@optonline.net>

One of the things that I had to learn fairly early on as I've been playing this game is where to shop for ingredients. Ethnic markets of one sort or another have played a major role in this process. I had yet another ethnic market epiphany this morning: There's a supermarket that I walk past every morning on my way to work. I work in one of Little Dominica neighborhoods of Manhattan, so the supermarkets cater to Caribbean origins of the folks who live there. I had never really explored the place, but this morning I had a bit of time so I wandered up and down a few aisles. I quickly found several items that I'd been seeking for quite a while -- sour oranges, for example; a large selection of goat meat; smaller more "normal" chickens (unlike the 4-5 lb heavy-breasted monsters in most supermarkets). It occurs to me that it could be useful to list the sort of items one can find at various flavors of ethnic markets. The markets I've made use of thus far, together with a selection of the ingredients that I've found at them, include:

East Asian (fresh/frozen galangal; wheat starch)
Middle Eastern (old world beans; date and pomegranate molasses; rose and orange blossom waters) South Asian (an assortment of spices unusual to the modern Western palate; ghee)
Italian (raw uncured olives in season; fresh quince)
Caribbean (assorted meats and poultry; unusual citrus fruit)

The above list is by no means exhaustive in terms of either ethnicity or ingredients available. I happen to fortunate in that the ethnic markets that I have access to are mostly large, full-fledged supermarkets -- I know that I have barely scratched the surface in terms what they can supply. And a lot of what I find myself doing is learning how to identify items that are described only in languages other than English (East Asian and South Asian markets are the most challenging in this regard, at least to me).

In any case, I'd to like hear about the shopping experiences of others. Maybe we could even build a database of where to look for unusual or hard-to-find ingredients.

-- Galefridus

From lstywnch at gmail.com  Thu Mar  7 08:33:30 2013
From: lstywnch at gmail.com (Valleri Collins)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2013 07:33:30 -0900
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Bear was, Pantry Raid
Message-ID: <CABnRqDFwoanxD0WSZmyBeH2cR7oTAPrT_SW9UfhdiZMSsEOrUA@mail.gmail.com>

Morgana, I've been in Alaska for 16 years and have eaten bear twice. The
first time my husband lovingly marinated, seasoned and roasted it. I took
two bites before thinking, "I wonder if this is what dog tastes like," and
couldn't eat any more. It was very rich and dark. The second time someone
at work offered me a bite of his bear roast that had been stewed in the
crock pot. It was the most nasty, foul, gamey thing I'd ever tasted and has
put me right off bear.

Valeria

From voztemp at yahoo.com  Thu Mar  7 08:50:09 2013
From: voztemp at yahoo.com (V O)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2013 08:50:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Pantry Raid
In-Reply-To: <CAFbYiEKXhrzhyqtSjt2MW1+nd-229RuqwkPgk8qx9wo03dQvOQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFoYnQ0bV1yze2uzwYgzx4gEq6Gkt=5fN+jyZ=n=ELqpuo7ppw@mail.gmail.com>
	<F7E84AE9-EFE9-465E-970C-D8D8CBB0E592@mac.com>
	<CAFbYiEKXhrzhyqtSjt2MW1+nd-229RuqwkPgk8qx9wo03dQvOQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1362675009.26502.YahooMailNeo@web142403.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

My cousin who lived up in the mountains growing up, said to me her favorite mince meat was bear.? So, well spiced and marinated in lots of booze......... :-)? 
?
Mirianna


________________________________
From: Ana Vald?s <agora158 at gmail.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org> 
Sent: Thursday, March 7, 2013 5:31 AM
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Pantry Raid

I ate bear in the north of Sweden and in Finland. We had the heart (really
good, made in a saut?e of scallions and chantarelles, eaten with
lingonberries) and some steak. The people who did it told us how they did
it, they marinated it for two days in beer, juniper, honey and vineger to
tenderize it.
When it was tender enough it was done as deer meat or any other game, steak
or in casseroles, accompanied by chantarelles, potatis and carrots.
ana

From voztemp at yahoo.com  Thu Mar  7 08:55:30 2013
From: voztemp at yahoo.com (V O)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2013 08:55:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Ethnic market epiphanies
In-Reply-To: <e5febb4627b09.5138bf3e@optonline.net>
References: <mailman.158640.1362634351.34820.sca-cooks-ansteorra.org@lists.ansteorra.org>
	<e5febb4627b09.5138bf3e@optonline.net>
Message-ID: <1362675330.96543.YahooMailNeo@web142406.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

My best finds in Ethnic markets is Saffron!? The Mid Eastern market I go to has saffron, big containers of it, for ridiculusly small cost.? 
?
Love the Ethnic markets!? 
?
Mirianna


________________________________
From: "galefridus at optimum.net" <galefridus at optimum.net>
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org 
Sent: Thursday, March 7, 2013 9:24 AM
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Ethnic market epiphanies

One of the things that I had to learn fairly early on as I've been playing this game is where to shop for ingredients. Ethnic markets of one sort or another have played a major role in this process. I had yet another ethnic market epiphany this morning: There's a supermarket that I walk past every morning on my way to work. I work in one of Little Dominica neighborhoods of Manhattan, so the supermarkets cater to Caribbean origins of the folks who live there. I had never really explored the place, but this morning I had a bit of time so I wandered up and down a few aisles. I quickly found several items that I'd been seeking for quite a while -- sour oranges, for example; a large selection of goat meat; smaller more "normal" chickens (unlike the 4-5 lb heavy-breasted monsters in most supermarkets). It occurs to me that it could be useful to list the sort of items one can find at various flavors of ethnic markets. The markets I've made use of thus far,
 together with a selection 
of the ingredients that I've found at them, include:

East Asian (fresh/frozen galangal; wheat starch)
Middle Eastern (old world beans; date and pomegranate molasses; rose and orange blossom waters) South Asian (an assortment of spices unusual to the modern Western palate; ghee)
Italian (raw uncured olives in season; fresh quince)
Caribbean (assorted meats and poultry; unusual citrus fruit)

The above list is by no means exhaustive in terms of either ethnicity or ingredients available. I happen to fortunate in that the ethnic markets that I have access to are mostly large, full-fledged supermarkets -- I know that I have barely scratched the surface in terms what they can supply. And a lot of what I find myself doing is learning how to identify items that are described only in languages other than English (East Asian and South Asian markets are the most challenging in this regard, at least to me).

In any case, I'd to like hear about the shopping experiences of others. Maybe we could even build a database of where to look for unusual or hard-to-find ingredients.

-- Galefridus
_______________________________________________
Sca-cooks mailing list
Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org

From johnnae at mac.com  Thu Mar  7 09:13:31 2013
From: johnnae at mac.com (Johnna Holloway)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2013 12:13:31 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Ethnic market epiphanies
In-Reply-To: <1362675330.96543.YahooMailNeo@web142406.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.158640.1362634351.34820.sca-cooks-ansteorra.org@lists.ansteorra.org>
	<e5febb4627b09.5138bf3e@optonline.net>
	<1362675330.96543.YahooMailNeo@web142406.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <F398B115-B010-4AC4-A57A-D26C1E501831@mac.com>

There are some guides.

Back in January 2004 I collected a list and published it--

Actually the guides already do exist---
Check out
Bruce Cost. Asian Ingredients.
Eve Zibart. The Ethnic Food Lover's Companion.
Linda Bladholm. Latin & Caribbean Grocery Stores Demystified.
Linda Bladholm. The Asian Grocery Store Demystified.
Linda Bladholm. The Indian Grocery Store Demystified.
There are many more---
Then there are the produce guides like
The Great Exotic Fruit Book.

Master A suggested the Von Welanetz Guide To Ethnic Ingredients.
---
In 2010 I suggested 

 Field Guide to Produce: How to Identify, Select, and Prepare Virtually Every Fruit and Vegetable at the Market. 

also The Edible Asian Garden will help.
Edible: An Illustrated Guide to the World's Food Plants 
 Vegetables from Amaranth to Zucchini: The Essential Reference: 500 Recipes, 275 Photographs by Elizabeth Schneider which is an encyclopedic volume. Your library may have it. It's too big to take to take shopping but it's a good source.

Cook's Guide To Asian Vegetables or Handy Pocket Guide To Asian Vegetables. 

By that time I was suggesting talking to the produce manager who may be able to help identify and provide more details. Back when I was able to drive and shop extensively I was on a first name basis with two or three produce managers at different stores. (I was after specialty citrus items and things like quince at the time.)

Lastly and this is what works best these days---
There's always
the take a photo with the cellphone. Then use the web to identify the produce in question.

My husband was in China last summer and sent me cellphone photos of certain items being served on the breakfast buffet.
I identified the fruits and sent the answers with links back to them in China.

Johnnae


On Mar 7, 2013, at 11:55 AM, "galefridus at optimum.net" <galefridus at optimum.net>

> snipped And a lot of what I find myself doing is learning how to identify items that are described only in languages other than English (East Asian and South Asian markets are the most challenging in this regard, at least to me).


From mistressaldyth at gmail.com  Thu Mar  7 09:26:00 2013
From: mistressaldyth at gmail.com (Deborah Hammons)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2013 10:26:00 -0700
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Bear was, Pantry Raid
In-Reply-To: <CABnRqDFwoanxD0WSZmyBeH2cR7oTAPrT_SW9UfhdiZMSsEOrUA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABnRqDFwoanxD0WSZmyBeH2cR7oTAPrT_SW9UfhdiZMSsEOrUA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPPosh5C5LKhLMVmNTQhWn=XJbBwX1VEe5KCtpR5Q5w3oYN4GA@mail.gmail.com>

All "game" meat has a different taste.  Many years ago I was in a
discussion over just when and where the term "gamey" began to be used to
describe something that did not taste good.  I have been actively been
hunting and fishing for over 30 years.  Have never taken bear.  (Because
they are too dumb to know they are dead before they get to you, and I am a
bowhunter).  The best deer I have ever tasted came from a wheat farm in
Montana.  Moose from Pinedale, Wyoming.  Elk from Saratoga Wyoming.

Antelope, well.  is antelope. I have had domestic goat and it is better
than "speed goat". I think it is because antelope have a hormone they
release when they run, that makes the meat strong/bitter tasting if you
don't let it metabolize out.  Moral, don't shoot one you have seen running,
and make a good enough shot that it doesn't run off.

Bears are omnivores. And on lean years eat more meat than not.  The bear I
have tasted that had plenty of salmon and berries was much milder than
those driven to scavenging. Deer and antelope taken from areas thick in
sage will taste sagey.  Trout that are wild most often have a pink or red
flesh due to the fresh water shrimp they eat.  Hatchery raised are white
and muddy tasting.  It takes about a year in the wild before the alfalfa
pellets process out.  Same with salmon.

In my experience, how wild game is handled after the kill can also directly
affect the taste.  For example, most "venison" needs to be separated from
the bone, and fat.  Bear is a fat meat in the first place, so rendering it
slowly and draining OFF the fat will make it tast better.  It is rich. And
seems to lend itself to strong spices.

The best bear.  Taken in theYukon. Friends made a roast of a backstrap
chunk.  No fat.  Used their "Cajun" injector with accompanying spices.
Bacon wrapped.  Roasted in a clay pot for 6 hours.  Texture of pulled
pork.  Yum.

Aldyth

On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 9:33 AM, Valleri Collins <lstywnch at gmail.com> wrote:

> Morgana, I've been in Alaska for 16 years and have eaten bear twice. The
> first time my husband lovingly marinated, seasoned and roasted it. I took
> two bites before thinking, "I wonder if this is what dog tastes like," and
> couldn't eat any more. It was very rich and dark. The second time someone
> at work offered me a bite of his bear roast that had been stewed in the
> crock pot. It was the most nasty, foul, gamey thing I'd ever tasted and has
> put me right off bear.
>
> Valeria
> _______________________________________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org
>

From sjk3 at cornell.edu  Thu Mar  7 10:07:31 2013
From: sjk3 at cornell.edu (Sandra J. Kisner)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2013 18:07:31 +0000
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Ethnic market epiphanies
In-Reply-To: <1362675330.96543.YahooMailNeo@web142406.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.158640.1362634351.34820.sca-cooks-ansteorra.org@lists.ansteorra.org>
	<e5febb4627b09.5138bf3e@optonline.net>
	<1362675330.96543.YahooMailNeo@web142406.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <66B77324292D9C439D75C2952BFFBBB50977B049@BN1PRD0412MB601.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>

How big a container, and at what price?  It's entirely possible what they're selling is safflower or calendula, not the true stamens of crocus sativa.

Sandra

-----Original Message-----
From: sca-cooks-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org [mailto:sca-cooks-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org] On Behalf Of V O
Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2013 11:56 AM
To: Cooks within the SCA
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Ethnic market epiphanies

My best finds in Ethnic markets is Saffron!? The Mid Eastern market I go to has saffron, big containers of it, for ridiculusly small cost.? 
?
Love the Ethnic markets!? 
?
Mirianna


________________________________
From: "galefridus at optimum.net" <galefridus at optimum.net>
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org 
Sent: Thursday, March 7, 2013 9:24 AM
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Ethnic market epiphanies

One of the things that I had to learn fairly early on as I've been playing this game is where to shop for ingredients. Ethnic markets of one sort or another have played a major role in this process. I had yet another ethnic market epiphany this morning: There's a supermarket that I walk past every morning on my way to work. I work in one of Little Dominica neighborhoods of Manhattan, so the supermarkets cater to Caribbean origins of the folks who live there. I had never really explored the place, but this morning I had a bit of time so I wandered up and down a few aisles. I quickly found several items that I'd been seeking for quite a while -- sour oranges, for example; a large selection of goat meat; smaller more "normal" chickens (unlike the 4-5 lb heavy-breasted monsters in most supermarkets). It occurs to me that it could be useful to list the sort of items one can find at various flavors of ethnic markets. The markets I've made use of thus far,
 together with a selection 
of the ingredients that I've found at them, include:

East Asian (fresh/frozen galangal; wheat starch)
Middle Eastern (old world beans; date and pomegranate molasses; rose and orange blossom waters) South Asian (an assortment of spices unusual to the modern Western palate; ghee)
Italian (raw uncured olives in season; fresh quince)
Caribbean (assorted meats and poultry; unusual citrus fruit)

The above list is by no means exhaustive in terms of either ethnicity or ingredients available. I happen to fortunate in that the ethnic markets that I have access to are mostly large, full-fledged supermarkets -- I know that I have barely scratched the surface in terms what they can supply. And a lot of what I find myself doing is learning how to identify items that are described only in languages other than English (East Asian and South Asian markets are the most challenging in this regard, at least to me).

In any case, I'd to like hear about the shopping experiences of others. Maybe we could even build a database of where to look for unusual or hard-to-find ingredients.

-- Galefridus
_______________________________________________
Sca-cooks mailing list
Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org
_______________________________________________
Sca-cooks mailing list
Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org



From donnaegreen at yahoo.com  Thu Mar  7 10:19:18 2013
From: donnaegreen at yahoo.com (Donna Green)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2013 10:19:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Bear Recipes
In-Reply-To: <mailman.159514.1362673473.34820.sca-cooks-ansteorra.org@lists.ansteorra.org>
Message-ID: <1362680358.86087.YahooMailClassic@web140904.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

 
> On Mar 7, 2013, at 12:00 AM, Glenn Gorsuch <ggorsuch at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
> > Now, one thing that IS specifically for the
> Symposium.? There is a potluck
> > Friday night, again.? I was just given about 5
> pounds of bear (NOT
> > Bear)...anyone have any brilliant ideas?

There's a recipe for bear (not Bear) in Scappi I think.

Juana Isabella

From johnnae at mac.com  Thu Mar  7 10:30:14 2013
From: johnnae at mac.com (Johnna Holloway)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2013 13:30:14 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Bear Recipes
In-Reply-To: <1362680358.86087.YahooMailClassic@web140904.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <1362680358.86087.YahooMailClassic@web140904.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <FF574593-2138-4BAF-96BB-F6C795F29C86@mac.com>

88. Various ways to cook bear meat. The bear has to be young and caught in its season, which is the winter, for even though in July it is much fatter because of its grazing?.

Long paragraph on page 179 of the Scully translation. The Opera of Bartolomeo Scappi (1570): L'Arte Et Prudenza D'Un Maestro Cuoco by Bartolomeo Scappi, Terence Scully.

You can view it on google books.

Johnnae

On Mar 7, 2013, at 1:19 PM, Donna Green wrote:

> 
>> On Mar 7, 2013, at 12:00 AM, Glenn Gorsuch <ggorsuch at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Now, one thing that IS specifically for the
>> Symposium.  There is a potluck
>>> Friday night, again.  I was just given about 5
>> pounds of bear (NOT
>>> Bear)...anyone have any brilliant ideas?
> 
> There's a recipe for bear (not Bear) in Scappi I think.
> 
> Juana Isabella
> _______________________________________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org


From galefridus at optimum.net  Thu Mar  7 10:57:55 2013
From: galefridus at optimum.net (Galefridus Peregrinus)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2013 13:57:55 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Saffron (was: Ethnic market epiphanies)
Message-ID: <73255067.826d2.13d46378010.Webtop.11@optimum.net>

I have seen saffron priced at around $80/oz. It's the real stuff, not 
safflower. I don't use it in large enough quantities, so I've never 
bought that much, but I scored a 2g container for $10 a year or so ago 
-- Spanish saffron, select grade. The price has gone up a bit -- I think 
that it's now $13/2g at the same store. 2g will last me quite a while, 
but if I were doing feast cooking, I might consider the 1 oz package.

-- Galefridus

From ddfr at daviddfriedman.com  Thu Mar  7 11:32:12 2013
From: ddfr at daviddfriedman.com (David Friedman)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2013 11:32:12 -0800
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Ethnic market epiphanies
In-Reply-To: <e5febb4627b09.5138bf3e@optonline.net>
References: <mailman.158640.1362634351.34820.sca-cooks-ansteorra.org@lists.ansteorra.org>
	<e5febb4627b09.5138bf3e@optonline.net>
Message-ID: <5138EB3C.7050803@daviddfriedman.com>

Chinese grocery stores carry Opo gourd, which I believe is the white 
flowered gourd that was available in the Old World before the New World 
squash/gourd/pumpkins came in.

Persian/middle eastern/Indian groceries have sekanjabin syrup, semolina 
(also available in many standard supermarkets), verjuice (labeled sour 
grape juice), sesame oil from untoasted sesame, and almond oil. Also 
often goat. I managed to find mutton at one hallal butcher, but it took 
searching, since they tend to use the term to include lamb and goat--at 
this one he took me into the freezer to show me the size of the animal 
he was cutting a piece off of for me. Edible camphor in an Indian 
grocery, but that took searching too. Cubebs in an Indian grocery.


On 3/7/13 8:24 AM, galefridus at optimum.net wrote:
> One of the things that I had to learn fairly early on as I've been playing this game is where to shop for ingredients. Ethnic markets of one sort or another have played a major role in this process. I had yet another ethnic market epiphany this morning: There's a supermarket that I walk past every morning on my way to work. I work in one of Little Dominica neighborhoods of Manhattan, so the supermarkets cater to Caribbean origins of the folks who live there. I had never really explored the place, but this morning I had a bit of time so I wandered up and down a few aisles. I quickly found several items that I'd been seeking for quite a while -- sour oranges, for example; a large selection of goat meat; smaller more "normal" chickens (unlike the 4-5 lb heavy-breasted monsters in most supermarkets). It occurs to me that it could be useful to list the sort of items one can find at various flavors of ethnic markets. The markets I've made use of thus far, together with a selection
>   of the ingredients that I've found at them, include:
>
> East Asian (fresh/frozen galangal; wheat starch)
> Middle Eastern (old world beans; date and pomegranate molasses; rose and orange blossom waters) South Asian (an assortment of spices unusual to the modern Western palate; ghee)
> Italian (raw uncured olives in season; fresh quince)
> Caribbean (assorted meats and poultry; unusual citrus fruit)
>
> The above list is by no means exhaustive in terms of either ethnicity or ingredients available. I happen to fortunate in that the ethnic markets that I have access to are mostly large, full-fledged supermarkets -- I know that I have barely scratched the surface in terms what they can supply. And a lot of what I find myself doing is learning how to identify items that are described only in languages other than English (East Asian and South Asian markets are the most challenging in this regard, at least to me).
>
> In any case, I'd to like hear about the shopping experiences of others. Maybe we could even build a database of where to look for unusual or hard-to-find ingredients.
>
> -- Galefridus
> _______________________________________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org
>
>

-- 
David Friedman
www.daviddfriedman.com
http://daviddfriedman.blogspot.com/



From ddfr at daviddfriedman.com  Thu Mar  7 11:36:36 2013
From: ddfr at daviddfriedman.com (David Friedman)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2013 11:36:36 -0800
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Saffron (was: Ethnic market epiphanies)
In-Reply-To: <73255067.826d2.13d46378010.Webtop.11@optimum.net>
References: <73255067.826d2.13d46378010.Webtop.11@optimum.net>
Message-ID: <5138EC44.7000901@daviddfriedman.com>

About $80/oz is the current price at http://www.theposter.com/saffron2.html

On 3/7/13 10:57 AM, Galefridus Peregrinus wrote:
> I have seen saffron priced at around $80/oz. It's the real stuff, not 
> safflower. I don't use it in large enough quantities, so I've never 
> bought that much, but I scored a 2g container for $10 a year or so ago 
> -- Spanish saffron, select grade. The price has gone up a bit -- I 
> think that it's now $13/2g at the same store. 2g will last me quite a 
> while, but if I were doing feast cooking, I might consider the 1 oz 
> package.
>
> -- Galefridus
> _______________________________________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org
>
>

-- 
David Friedman
www.daviddfriedman.com
http://daviddfriedman.blogspot.com/


From cmupythia at cmu.edu  Thu Mar  7 11:38:46 2013
From: cmupythia at cmu.edu (Gretchen R Beck)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2013 19:38:46 +0000
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Ethnic market epiphanies
In-Reply-To: <5138EB3C.7050803@daviddfriedman.com>
References: <mailman.158640.1362634351.34820.sca-cooks-ansteorra.org@lists.ansteorra.org>
	<e5febb4627b09.5138bf3e@optonline.net>,
	<5138EB3C.7050803@daviddfriedman.com>
Message-ID: <56DDB644A1AF6E4CB5CF6CB8B50FCDB40218DCE9@PGH-MSGMB-03.andrew.ad.cmu.edu>

I've also found semolina flour at Italian groceries

Our local middle eastern is the only place I know that carries quail (frozen) at a reasonable price.  Both the middle eastern and the indian groceries tend to have both multiple colors of both lentils and chickpeas.  Ditto for reasonably priced fresh mint (and of course the middle eastern grocery often carries a variety of cucumbers, not just gherkins, english seedless, and whatever the ones every grocery store has are)

toodles, margaret


________________________________________
From: sca-cooks-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org [sca-cooks-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org] on behalf of David Friedman [ddfr at daviddfriedman.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2013 2:32 PM
To: Cooks within the SCA
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Ethnic market epiphanies

Chinese grocery stores carry Opo gourd, which I believe is the white
flowered gourd that was available in the Old World before the New World
squash/gourd/pumpkins came in.

Persian/middle eastern/Indian groceries have sekanjabin syrup, semolina
(also available in many standard supermarkets), verjuice (labeled sour
grape juice), sesame oil from untoasted sesame, and almond oil. Also
often goat. I managed to find mutton at one hallal butcher, but it took
searching, since they tend to use the term to include lamb and goat--at
this one he took me into the freezer to show me the size of the animal
he was cutting a piece off of for me. Edible camphor in an Indian
grocery, but that took searching too. Cubebs in an Indian grocery.


On 3/7/13 8:24 AM, galefridus at optimum.net wrote:
> One of the things that I had to learn fairly early on as I've been playing this game is where to shop for ingredients. Ethnic markets of one sort or another have played a major role in this process. I had yet another ethnic market epiphany this morning: There's a supermarket that I walk past every morning on my way to work. I work in one of Little Dominica neighborhoods of Manhattan, so the supermarkets cater to Caribbean origins of the folks who live there. I had never really explored the place, but this morning I had a bit of time so I wandered up and down a few aisles. I quickly found several items that I'd been seeking for quite a while -- sour oranges, for example; a large selection of goat meat; smaller more "normal" chickens (unlike the 4-5 lb heavy-breasted monsters in most supermarkets). It occurs to me that it could be useful to list the sort of items one can find at various flavors of ethnic markets. The markets I've made use of thus far, together with a selectio
 n
>   of the ingredients that I've found at them, include:
>
> East Asian (fresh/frozen galangal; wheat starch)
> Middle Eastern (old world beans; date and pomegranate molasses; rose and orange blossom waters) South Asian (an assortment of spices unusual to the modern Western palate; ghee)
> Italian (raw uncured olives in season; fresh quince)
> Caribbean (assorted meats and poultry; unusual citrus fruit)
>
> The above list is by no means exhaustive in terms of either ethnicity or ingredients available. I happen to fortunate in that the ethnic markets that I have access to are mostly large, full-fledged supermarkets -- I know that I have barely scratched the surface in terms what they can supply. And a lot of what I find myself doing is learning how to identify items that are described only in languages other than English (East Asian and South Asian markets are the most challenging in this regard, at least to me).
>
> In any case, I'd to like hear about the shopping experiences of others. Maybe we could even build a database of where to look for unusual or hard-to-find ingredients.
>
> -- Galefridus
> _______________________________________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org
>
>

--
David Friedman
www.daviddfriedman.com
http://daviddfriedman.blogspot.com/


_______________________________________________
Sca-cooks mailing list
Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org

From ddfr at daviddfriedman.com  Thu Mar  7 11:57:09 2013
From: ddfr at daviddfriedman.com (David Friedman)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2013 11:57:09 -0800
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Ethnic market epiphanies
In-Reply-To: <56DDB644A1AF6E4CB5CF6CB8B50FCDB40218DCE9@PGH-MSGMB-03.andrew.ad.cmu.edu>
References: <mailman.158640.1362634351.34820.sca-cooks-ansteorra.org@lists.ansteorra.org>
	<e5febb4627b09.5138bf3e@optonline.net>,
	<5138EB3C.7050803@daviddfriedman.com>
	<56DDB644A1AF6E4CB5CF6CB8B50FCDB40218DCE9@PGH-MSGMB-03.andrew.ad.cmu.edu>
Message-ID: <5138F115.30704@daviddfriedman.com>


On 3/7/13 11:38 AM, Gretchen R Beck wrote:
> I've also found semolina flour at Italian groceries
>
> Our local middle eastern is the only place I know that carries quail (frozen) at a reasonable price.
I'm not certain, but I think I saw them in the local Chinese 
supermarket. Don't remember the price.
> Both the middle eastern and the indian groceries tend to have both multiple colors of both lentils and chickpeas.  Ditto for reasonably priced fresh mint (and of course the middle eastern grocery often carries a variety of cucumbers, not just gherkins, english seedless, and whatever the ones every grocery store has are)
Has anyone here figured out what cucumbers currently available 
correspond to varieties in the Islamic sources, especially al-Warraq?
>
> toodles, margaret
>
>
> ________________________________________
> From: sca-cooks-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org [sca-cooks-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org] on behalf of David Friedman [ddfr at daviddfriedman.com]
> Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2013 2:32 PM
> To: Cooks within the SCA
> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Ethnic market epiphanies
>
> Chinese grocery stores carry Opo gourd, which I believe is the white
> flowered gourd that was available in the Old World before the New World
> squash/gourd/pumpkins came in.
>
> Persian/middle eastern/Indian groceries have sekanjabin syrup, semolina
> (also available in many standard supermarkets), verjuice (labeled sour
> grape juice), sesame oil from untoasted sesame, and almond oil. Also
> often goat. I managed to find mutton at one hallal butcher, but it took
> searching, since they tend to use the term to include lamb and goat--at
> this one he took me into the freezer to show me the size of the animal
> he was cutting a piece off of for me. Edible camphor in an Indian
> grocery, but that took searching too. Cubebs in an Indian grocery.
>
>
> On 3/7/13 8:24 AM, galefridus at optimum.net wrote:
>> One of the things that I had to learn fairly early on as I've been playing this game is where to shop for ingredients. Ethnic markets of one sort or another have played a major role in this process. I had yet another ethnic market epiphany this morning: There's a supermarket that I walk past every morning on my way to work. I work in one of Little Dominica neighborhoods of Manhattan, so the supermarkets cater to Caribbean origins of the folks who live there. I had never really explored the place, but this morning I had a bit of time so I wandered up and down a few aisles. I quickly found several items that I'd been seeking for quite a while -- sour oranges, for example; a large selection of goat meat; smaller more "normal" chickens (unlike the 4-5 lb heavy-breasted monsters in most supermarkets). It occurs to me that it could be useful to list the sort of items one can find at various flavors of ethnic markets. The markets I've made use of thus far, together with a selectio
>   n
>>    of the ingredients that I've found at them, include:
>>
>> East Asian (fresh/frozen galangal; wheat starch)
>> Middle Eastern (old world beans; date and pomegranate molasses; rose and orange blossom waters) South Asian (an assortment of spices unusual to the modern Western palate; ghee)
>> Italian (raw uncured olives in season; fresh quince)
>> Caribbean (assorted meats and poultry; unusual citrus fruit)
>>
>> The above list is by no means exhaustive in terms of either ethnicity or ingredients available. I happen to fortunate in that the ethnic markets that I have access to are mostly large, full-fledged supermarkets -- I know that I have barely scratched the surface in terms what they can supply. And a lot of what I find myself doing is learning how to identify items that are described only in languages other than English (East Asian and South Asian markets are the most challenging in this regard, at least to me).
>>
>> In any case, I'd to like hear about the shopping experiences of others. Maybe we could even build a database of where to look for unusual or hard-to-find ingredients.
>>
>> -- Galefridus
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sca-cooks mailing list
>> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
>> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org
>>
>>
> --
> David Friedman
> www.daviddfriedman.com
> http://daviddfriedman.blogspot.com/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org
> _______________________________________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org
>
>

-- 
David Friedman
www.daviddfriedman.com
http://daviddfriedman.blogspot.com/



From dmyers at medievalcookery.com  Thu Mar  7 11:59:18 2013
From: dmyers at medievalcookery.com (Daniel Myers)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2013 12:59:18 -0700
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Bear Recipes
Message-ID: <20130307125918.ed12dd0b5fcfab5c7acb3c004d380fe9.3138e4e6d0.wbe@email04.secureserver.net>



> -------- Original Message --------
> On Mar 7, 2013, at 12:00 AM, Glenn Gorsuch <ggorsuch at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
> Now, one thing that IS specifically for the
> Symposium.? There is a potluck Friday night, again.? I was just given about 5
> pounds of bear (NOT Bear)...anyone have any brilliant ideas?

Here's what little I found on a quick search:

Sauce for Any Game Animal (stag, bear, deer or other). Clean the meat
and roast or boil it; then make this sauce: get a toasted, crustless
loaf of bread with a handful of the animal's meat and pepper, ginger and
saffron, and grind it up together; distemper this with lean broth,
verjuice and honey, and boil it until it is thick; put it into bowls.
[The Neapolitan recipe collection, (Italy, 15th c - T. Scully, trans.)]

xij - Vn Vyaunde Furne3 san3 noum de chare. Take stronge Dow, and make a
cake sumdele thicke, and make it tow; than take larde3 of Venysoun, or a
bere, or of a Bere, and kerue hem thinne as Fylettes of Porke, and lay
thin lardys square as a chekyr, and ley ther-vppe a tyne y-makyd of
Eyroun vppe-on the tyne; ley thin farsure, y-makyd of Hennys, and of
Porke, of Eyroun, and myid brede, and Salt, and chese, yf thou it hast;
and that it be makkyd at .iiij. tymes. Fyrst make thus thin whyte
farsure: grynd in a mortere, Gyngere, Canelle, Galyngale; take then
almaundys and floure of Rys, and a party of Fleysshe, and caste ther-to
in a mortere, and grynd ry3th smal, and temper it with Eyroun. thus make
thin 3elow Farsure: nym Safroun, Gyngere, Canel, Galyngale, Brede, and a
partye of thin Fleyssche, and grynd it smal in the mortere, and temper
it vppe with Eyroun. The thryd maner schal ben blake: nym Gyngere,
Canelle, Galyngale, Brede, Eyroun, and Old chese; nym than Percely, and
grynd it smal in a mortere, and wryng it and do it vppe; and do it to
thin Fleyssche, and ther-with coloure thin fayre partye of Fleyssche,
and ley a party of thin Fleyssche on .iiij. quarterys, but that the
brede be as thin cake; take then and ley ther-vppe-on thin Fleyssche,
and lay ther-vppe-on a grece; a-boue thin grece ley thi cyvey; nym thin
thridde cours of thin Flessche, and lay as brode as thin cake, and than
grece, and ther a-bouyn, a cyvey. ley the iiij. course of thin Fleyssche
on .iiij. quarterys as brode as thin cake, and than grece, and than
a-boue, a cyuey. The .v. cours of thin Fleyssche, ley as brode as thine
cake, and then grece, and than aboue, a cyuey. Nym the .vj. cours, and
lay as brode as thin cake, and than grece, and than a cyuey. Nym the
.viij. cours of the Fleysshe, and lay as brode as thin cake on .iiij.
quarterys, and grece, and than a cyvey; and a lytel bake hem, and serue
forth.  [Two Fifteenth-Century Cookery-Books, (England, 1430)]

- Doc

From lyndyn29 at gmail.com  Thu Mar  7 12:11:21 2013
From: lyndyn29 at gmail.com (Beth Harper)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2013 13:11:21 -0700
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Ethnic market epiphanies
In-Reply-To: <e5febb4627b09.5138bf3e@optonline.net>
References: <mailman.158640.1362634351.34820.sca-cooks-ansteorra.org@lists.ansteorra.org>
	<e5febb4627b09.5138bf3e@optonline.net>
Message-ID: <CACAydnkdaMAqE1Xf6vhYEb-e5vVZR65Ee1qrfUSGB_LJHSczEQ@mail.gmail.com>

Just from the shopping list from my most recent feast -

kid and lamb, rose petal jam, lemon-quince and rose beverage syrups,
pomegranate molasses, bulb fennel, and lentils from a Persian grocer

quail and eggplant (both MUCH cheaper than mainstream supermarkets)
and wheat starch from a Southeast Asian grocer

dried pomegranate seeds, fresh sesame oil, nigella, edible camphor,
dates, and saffron from an Indian grocer.

I pretty much can't walk out of an Indian grocery store without
spices! In general, where SCA cooking is concerned, I like Middle
Eastern grocers for pre-made things (condiments, syrups and such) and
for fresh vegetables and red meat; Indian and Latin grocers for
spices, seafood, outrageously cheap cheese, and red meat, and
east/southeast Asian grocers for some vegetables, fruit, poultry, and
just about any non-wheat, non-corn alternatives (wheat starch, rice
flour, etc.).

And of course Russian and Polish places for Central and Eastern
European specialties - preserved wild mushrooms, millet, buckwheat
groats, salt-preserved fish. Cheeses! Cheeses are sometimes quite a
bit cheaper at an Eastern European market (though not usually cheaper
than Latin markets), and always more diverse.

So many other things I can' t think of off the top of my head! I shop
mainly in the Denver Metro (Barony of Caerthe, Outlands) area, fwiw.

Liepa

On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 9:24 AM,  <galefridus at optimum.net> wrote:
> One of the things that I had to learn fairly early on as I've been playing this game is where to shop for ingredients. Ethnic markets of one sort or another have played a major role in this process.

From ddfr at daviddfriedman.com  Thu Mar  7 12:24:01 2013
From: ddfr at daviddfriedman.com (David Friedman)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2013 12:24:01 -0800
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Ethnic market epiphanies
In-Reply-To: <CACAydnkdaMAqE1Xf6vhYEb-e5vVZR65Ee1qrfUSGB_LJHSczEQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.158640.1362634351.34820.sca-cooks-ansteorra.org@lists.ansteorra.org>
	<e5febb4627b09.5138bf3e@optonline.net>
	<CACAydnkdaMAqE1Xf6vhYEb-e5vVZR65Ee1qrfUSGB_LJHSczEQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5138F761.2090501@daviddfriedman.com>

One more thing, which I may have mentioned in a previous thread.

I wanted to do an al-Warraq recipe for a rack of lamb ribs. Individual 
Lamb rib chops at the local supermarket cost almost $20/lb! A local 
Mexican grocery store had a whole rack--the butcher cut it in half for 
me--at under $5/lb.

On 3/7/13 12:11 PM, Beth Harper wrote:
> Just from the shopping list from my most recent feast -
>
> kid and lamb, rose petal jam, lemon-quince and rose beverage syrups,
> pomegranate molasses, bulb fennel, and lentils from a Persian grocer
>
> quail and eggplant (both MUCH cheaper than mainstream supermarkets)
> and wheat starch from a Southeast Asian grocer
>
> dried pomegranate seeds, fresh sesame oil, nigella, edible camphor,
> dates, and saffron from an Indian grocer.
>
> I pretty much can't walk out of an Indian grocery store without
> spices! In general, where SCA cooking is concerned, I like Middle
> Eastern grocers for pre-made things (condiments, syrups and such) and
> for fresh vegetables and red meat; Indian and Latin grocers for
> spices, seafood, outrageously cheap cheese, and red meat, and
> east/southeast Asian grocers for some vegetables, fruit, poultry, and
> just about any non-wheat, non-corn alternatives (wheat starch, rice
> flour, etc.).
>
> And of course Russian and Polish places for Central and Eastern
> European specialties - preserved wild mushrooms, millet, buckwheat
> groats, salt-preserved fish. Cheeses! Cheeses are sometimes quite a
> bit cheaper at an Eastern European market (though not usually cheaper
> than Latin markets), and always more diverse.
>
> So many other things I can' t think of off the top of my head! I shop
> mainly in the Denver Metro (Barony of Caerthe, Outlands) area, fwiw.
>
> Liepa
>
> On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 9:24 AM,  <galefridus at optimum.net> wrote:
>> One of the things that I had to learn fairly early on as I've been playing this game is where to shop for ingredients. Ethnic markets of one sort or another have played a major role in this process.
> _______________________________________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org
>
>

-- 
David Friedman
www.daviddfriedman.com
http://daviddfriedman.blogspot.com/


From galefridus at optimum.net  Thu Mar  7 12:35:30 2013
From: galefridus at optimum.net (Galefridus Peregrinus)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2013 15:35:30 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Quail (was: Ethnic market epiphanies)
Message-ID: <5b415631.82bed.13d4690d7a4.Webtop.11@optimum.net>

There's a semi-gourmet supermarket a few blocks from my place of work 
the sells an 18 oz package of 4 quail for $8.

-- Galefridus

From lcm at jeffnet.org  Thu Mar  7 12:05:46 2013
From: lcm at jeffnet.org (Laura C. Minnick)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2013 12:05:46 -0800
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Interesting stuff on religious and food-
Message-ID: <5138F31A.4070209@jeffnet.org>

This came across my desk the other day, thought others here would be 
interested.

http://historicalresources.myzen.co.uk/PAPERS/food.pdf

Worth a grander, especially as regards food and the liturgical year.

Liutgard
-- 
"It is our choices Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our 
abilities." -Albus Dumbledore ~~~Follow my Queenly perambulations at: 
http://slugcrossings.blogspot.com/

From StefanliRous at austin.rr.com  Thu Mar  7 17:34:35 2013
From: StefanliRous at austin.rr.com (Stefan li Rous)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2013 19:34:35 -0600
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Last minute: things to do with sausage
Message-ID: <5B4CEECB-983E-48A0-A5E5-7244247F0F8D@austin.rr.com>

Mercy asked:
<<< I have been researching and trying to come up with a tourney dish for using up some period German sausages I made. I've had a great help from Ranvaig with suggestions of salad.  I'm wondering if there might be something else I can use these sausages with? >>>

I don't know if it is period or not, but what about sausages and sauerkraut? Each is period, I just don't know about serving them together. And the sauerkraut will keep without refrigeration.

sauerkraut-msg (44K) 6/21/09 Period sauerkraut and pickled cabbage.
http://www.florilegium.org/files/FOOD-VEGETABLES/sauerkraut-msg.html

Stefan
--------
THLord Stefan li Rous    Barony of Bryn Gwlad    Kingdom of Ansteorra
   Mark S. Harris           Austin, Texas          StefanliRous at austin.rr.com
http://www.linkedin.com/in/marksharris
**** See Stefan's Florilegium files at:  http://www.florilegium.org ****







From StefanliRous at austin.rr.com  Thu Mar  7 19:07:30 2013
From: StefanliRous at austin.rr.com (Stefan li Rous)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2013 21:07:30 -0600
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Pantry Raid
Message-ID: <2524D34C-8A92-4EE6-9714-EEE51FA0C76B@austin.rr.com>

<<< I would have so loved a side trip to Powells ? just for browsing.

Johnnae >>>

You can browse books, without buying any??? I usually find that really hard to do. There's almost always something interesting that I *have* to have. :-)

Stefan

--------
THLord Stefan li Rous    Barony of Bryn Gwlad    Kingdom of Ansteorra
   Mark S. Harris           Austin, Texas          StefanliRous at austin.rr.com
http://www.linkedin.com/in/marksharris
**** See Stefan's Florilegium files at:  http://www.florilegium.org ****







From StefanliRous at austin.rr.com  Thu Mar  7 19:26:40 2013
From: StefanliRous at austin.rr.com (Stefan li Rous)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2013 21:26:40 -0600
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Ethnic market epiphanies
Message-ID: <289FB4A3-F48A-4F0A-832E-CC519F6159AB@austin.rr.com>

<<< In any case, I'd to like hear about the shopping experiences of others. Maybe we could even build a database of where to look for unusual or hard-to-find ingredients.

-- Galefridus >>>

We've discussed where to find various "exotic" some on this list. I would love to have an article on this or a set of spreadsheets or a database for the Florilegium.

food-sources-msg (68K) 1/31/08 Modern sources for unusual medieval meats
and other foods.
http://www.florilegium.org/files/FOOD/food-sources-msg.html

Thank you for this message. I have saved it to be added to this file later. :-)

<<< And a lot of what I find myself doing is learning how to identify items that are described only in languages other than English (East Asian and South Asian markets are the most challenging in this regard, at least to me). >>>

Yep. A lot of interesting, intriguing looking items from pastries to various canned items.

And I skip over much of this stuff, because I have no idea how it might be used. Maybe as databases, including the Florilegium, are more accessible on tablets or whatever when I am in such a store, I can then decide on and then buy some of these items. Right now, I'm concerned that I'll buy something that needs something else to make it useable. Something that I didn't buy and can't find more locally. Or avoid doing something ignorant, like say, putting incompatible items together or eating something raw that needs to be cooked or vice-versa.

Stefan

--------
THLord Stefan li Rous    Barony of Bryn Gwlad    Kingdom of Ansteorra
   Mark S. Harris           Austin, Texas          StefanliRous at austin.rr.com
http://www.linkedin.com/in/marksharris
**** See Stefan's Florilegium files at:  http://www.florilegium.org ****







From lcm at jeffnet.org  Thu Mar  7 20:40:14 2013
From: lcm at jeffnet.org (Laura C. Minnick)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2013 20:40:14 -0800
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Pantry Raid
In-Reply-To: <2524D34C-8A92-4EE6-9714-EEE51FA0C76B@austin.rr.com>
References: <2524D34C-8A92-4EE6-9714-EEE51FA0C76B@austin.rr.com>
Message-ID: <51396BAE.9090207@jeffnet.org>

On 3/7/2013 7:07 PM, Stefan li Rous wrote:
> <<< I would have so loved a side trip to Powells ? just for browsing.
>
> Johnnae >>>
>
> You can browse books, without buying any??? I usually find that really hard to do. There's almost always something interesting that I *have* to have. :-)
>
> Stefan
>
The Powell's management has apparently installed a secret homing beacon 
in my car, because if I cross the river into that side of town, however 
short the trip or intent I am on my destination, I always end up sitting 
in the Powell's parking garage wondering "How the heck did I get here?" 
This gets expensive, because once in there, I have to buy something. And 
this runs into money!

And this is why I stay on the east side! (Thank goodness Voodoo 
Doughnuts has an eastside location now!)

Liutgard
-- 
"It is our choices Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our 
abilities." -Albus Dumbledore ~~~Follow my Queenly perambulations at: 
http://slugcrossings.blogspot.com/

From JIMCHEVAL at aol.com  Thu Mar  7 21:19:39 2013
From: JIMCHEVAL at aol.com (JIMCHEVAL at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2013 00:19:39 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Pantry Raid
Message-ID: <1d7dc.1e74f140.3e6aceea@aol.com>

A number of modern recipe books for hunters give recipes for bear; some say 
 to cook it like pork. Some also say that it's like pork in another way: it 
can  carry trichinosis. So cook it well.

The Menagier de Paris frustratingly  mentions eating bear, but only to tell 
the reader how to counterfeit  it:

"To  Counterfeit Bear Venison from a Piece of Beef. Take flank, and let it 
be chopped  in large chunks as for loin stew, then parboil, lard and roast: 
and then boil a  boar's tail_[69]_ 
(http://old.cbbqa.org/history/primary/Menagier.html#fn68) ,  and let your meat boil a little, and throw sauce and all 
in a  dish."


Pichon's note says that "boar's tail" was a  sauce.
 
 
Jim  Chevallier
www.chezjim.com

Newly translated from Pierre Jean-Baptiste  Le Grand d'Aussy:
Eggs, Cheese and Butter in Old Regime France  

 
In a message dated 3/7/2013 8:50:16 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,  
voztemp at yahoo.com writes:

her  favorite mince meat was  bear.


From JIMCHEVAL at aol.com  Thu Mar  7 21:35:14 2013
From: JIMCHEVAL at aol.com (JIMCHEVAL at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2013 00:35:14 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Ethnic market epiphanies
Message-ID: <1da21.59e9a922.3e6ad292@aol.com>

We who live in the San Fernando Valley are spoiled in this regard. I  live 
a short walk from a both a Pakistani grocer and a small Armenian market. A  
bit further away an Indian market is next to an Israeli supermarket. Lots of 
 Latino places, of course. And more than a few Persian places. One of which 
makes  its own lavash (about four feet long) and a kind of green quiche 
which I THINK  is made with spinach and mint.  

Whatever it is, it's lucky I only bought one slice. If I'd bought ten,  I 
would have finished those on the drive home as well.

 
Jim  Chevallier
www.chezjim.com

Newly translated from Pierre Jean-Baptiste  Le Grand d'Aussy:
Eggs, Cheese and Butter in Old Regime France  

 
In a message dated 3/7/2013 10:08:03 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,  
sjk3 at cornell.edu writes:

East  Asian (fresh/frozen galangal; wheat starch)
Middle Eastern (old world  beans; date and pomegranate molasses; rose and 
orange blossom waters) South  Asian (an assortment of spices unusual to the 
modern Western palate;  ghee)
Italian (raw uncured olives in season; fresh quince)
Caribbean  (assorted meats and poultry; unusual citrus  fruit)



From ddfr at daviddfriedman.com  Fri Mar  8 04:50:45 2013
From: ddfr at daviddfriedman.com (David Friedman)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2013 04:50:45 -0800
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Ethnic market epiphanies
In-Reply-To: <1da21.59e9a922.3e6ad292@aol.com>
References: <1da21.59e9a922.3e6ad292@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5139DEA5.2050107@daviddfriedman.com>

Living in San Jose, we have, within about a mile, a large Chinese 
supermarket, a large Japanese supermarket, at least one Indian grocery 
store, a Persian grocery store, and various hispanic markets. Lots more 
things, including multiple halal butchers, a little farther away.

On 3/7/13 9:35 PM, JIMCHEVAL at aol.com wrote:
> We who live in the San Fernando Valley are spoiled in this regard. I  live
> a short walk from a both a Pakistani grocer and a small Armenian market. A
> bit further away an Indian market is next to an Israeli supermarket. Lots of
>   Latino places, of course. And more than a few Persian places. One of which
> makes  its own lavash (about four feet long) and a kind of green quiche
> which I THINK  is made with spinach and mint.
>
> Whatever it is, it's lucky I only bought one slice. If I'd bought ten,  I
> would have finished those on the drive home as well.
>
>   
> Jim  Chevallier
> www.chezjim.com
>
> Newly translated from Pierre Jean-Baptiste  Le Grand d'Aussy:
> Eggs, Cheese and Butter in Old Regime France
>
>   
> In a message dated 3/7/2013 10:08:03 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
> sjk3 at cornell.edu writes:
>
> East  Asian (fresh/frozen galangal; wheat starch)
> Middle Eastern (old world  beans; date and pomegranate molasses; rose and
> orange blossom waters) South  Asian (an assortment of spices unusual to the
> modern Western palate;  ghee)
> Italian (raw uncured olives in season; fresh quince)
> Caribbean  (assorted meats and poultry; unusual citrus  fruit)
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org
>
>

-- 
David Friedman
www.daviddfriedman.com
http://daviddfriedman.blogspot.com/


From johnnae at mac.com  Fri Mar  8 04:59:48 2013
From: johnnae at mac.com (Johnna Holloway)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2013 07:59:48 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Pantry Raid
In-Reply-To: <51396BAE.9090207@jeffnet.org>
References: <2524D34C-8A92-4EE6-9714-EEE51FA0C76B@austin.rr.com>
	<51396BAE.9090207@jeffnet.org>
Message-ID: <35FD6394-B1E0-4291-AC17-8C0AD290E309@mac.com>

Ahhh, but I am a professional. They teach a course in browsing; it's part of secret librarian reference voodoo and magic handshake course. Also when we are traveling with just carry-ons, we
tend not to buy books, although my husband has stood in bookstores and downloaded
titles to his kindle.

Johnnae

On Mar 7, 2013, at 11:40 PM, Laura C. Minnick wrote:

> On 3/7/2013 7:07 PM, Stefan li Rous wrote:
>> <<< I would have so loved a side trip to Powells ? just for browsing.
>> Johnnae >>>
>> 
>> You can browse books, without buying any??? I usually find that really hard to do. There's almost always something interesting that I *have* to have. :-) Stefan
>> 
> The Powell's management has apparently installed a secret homing beacon in my car, because if I cross the river into that side of town, however short the trip or intent I am on my destination, I always end up sitting in the Powell's parking garage wondering "How the heck did I get here?" This gets expensive, because once in there, I have to buy something. And this runs into money!
> And this is why I stay on the east side! (Thank goodness Voodoo Doughnuts has an eastside location now!)
> Liutgard

From samia at idlelion.net  Fri Mar  8 06:01:10 2013
From: samia at idlelion.net (Sayyeda al-Kaslaania)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2013 08:01:10 -0600
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Cucumbers, was: Ethnic market epiphanies
In-Reply-To: <5138F115.30704@daviddfriedman.com>
References: <mailman.158640.1362634351.34820.sca-cooks-ansteorra.org@lists.ansteorra.org>
	<e5febb4627b09.5138bf3e@optonline.net>,
	<5138EB3C.7050803@daviddfriedman.com>
	<56DDB644A1AF6E4CB5CF6CB8B50FCDB40218DCE9@PGH-MSGMB-03.andrew.ad.cmu.edu>
	<5138F115.30704@daviddfriedman.com>
Message-ID: <5139EF26.9070807@idlelion.net>

I, too, am curious what people know about the different kinds of 
cucumbers mentioned in Islamic cookbooks.

Sayyeda al-Kaslaania

>> Both the middle eastern and the indian groceries tend to have both 
>> multiple colors of both lentils and chickpeas.  Ditto for reasonably 
>> priced fresh mint (and of course the middle eastern grocery often 
>> carries a variety of cucumbers, not just gherkins, english seedless, 
>> and whatever the ones every grocery store has are)
> Has anyone here figured out what cucumbers currently available 
> correspond to varieties in the Islamic sources, especially al-Warraq?


From lcm at jeffnet.org  Fri Mar  8 08:11:39 2013
From: lcm at jeffnet.org (Laura C. Minnick)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2013 08:11:39 -0800
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Pantry Raid
In-Reply-To: <35FD6394-B1E0-4291-AC17-8C0AD290E309@mac.com>
References: <2524D34C-8A92-4EE6-9714-EEE51FA0C76B@austin.rr.com>
	<51396BAE.9090207@jeffnet.org>
	<35FD6394-B1E0-4291-AC17-8C0AD290E309@mac.com>
Message-ID: <513A0DBB.9080405@jeffnet.org>

You could always do what folks do when they go to the conference at 
Kalamazoo- mail them home. They even have a temporary post office set up 
in the lobby for just that purpose!

Liutgard

On 3/8/2013 4:59 AM, Johnna Holloway wrote:
> Ahhh, but I am a professional. They teach a course in browsing; it's part of secret librarian reference voodoo and magic handshake course. Also when we are traveling with just carry-ons, we
> tend not to buy books, although my husband has stood in bookstores and downloaded
> titles to his kindle.
>
> Johnnae
>
> On Mar 7, 2013, at 11:40 PM, Laura C. Minnick wrote:
>
>> On 3/7/2013 7:07 PM, Stefan li Rous wrote:
>>> <<< I would have so loved a side trip to Powells ? just for browsing.
>>> Johnnae >>>
>>>
>>> You can browse books, without buying any??? I usually find that really hard to do. There's almost always something interesting that I *have* to have. :-) Stefan
>>>
>> The Powell's management has apparently installed a secret homing beacon in my car, because if I cross the river into that side of town, however short the trip or intent I am on my destination, I always end up sitting in the Powell's parking garage wondering "How the heck did I get here?" This gets expensive, because once in there, I have to buy something. And this runs into money!
>> And this is why I stay on the east side! (Thank goodness Voodoo Doughnuts has an eastside location now!)
>> Liutgard
>>


-- 
"It is our choices Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our 
abilities." -Albus Dumbledore ~~~Follow my Queenly perambulations at: 
http://slugcrossings.blogspot.com/

From johnnae at mac.com  Fri Mar  8 09:23:27 2013
From: johnnae at mac.com (Johnna Holloway)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2013 12:23:27 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Cucumbers, was: Ethnic market epiphanies
In-Reply-To: <5139EF26.9070807@idlelion.net>
References: <mailman.158640.1362634351.34820.sca-cooks-ansteorra.org@lists.ansteorra.org>
	<e5febb4627b09.5138bf3e@optonline.net>
	<5138EB3C.7050803@daviddfriedman.com>
	<56DDB644A1AF6E4CB5CF6CB8B50FCDB40218DCE9@PGH-MSGMB-03.andrew.ad.cmu.edu>
	<5138F115.30704@daviddfriedman.com> <5139EF26.9070807@idlelion.net>
Message-ID: <C1C821D7-7262-4B97-B4A3-08CC8F7388B9@mac.com>

Start out with this article and then check the footnotes:

"Occidental diffusion of cucumber (Cucumis sativus) 500?1300 CE: two routes to Europe" by Paris, Daunay, and Janick.

http://aob.oxfordjournals.org/content/109/1/117.full

There's a full description if you scroll down for varieties grown in the east.

Johnnae

On Mar 8, 2013, at 9:01 AM, Sayyeda al-Kaslaania wrote:

> I, too, am curious what people know about the different kinds of cucumbers mentioned in Islamic cookbooks.
> 
> Sayyeda al-Kaslaania
> 
>>> Has anyone here figured out what cucumbers currently available correspond to varieties in the Islamic sources, especially al-Warraq?

From johnnae at mac.com  Fri Mar  8 09:53:20 2013
From: johnnae at mac.com (Johnna Holloway)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2013 12:53:20 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Cucumbers, was: Ethnic market epiphanies
In-Reply-To: <C1C821D7-7262-4B97-B4A3-08CC8F7388B9@mac.com>
References: <mailman.158640.1362634351.34820.sca-cooks-ansteorra.org@lists.ansteorra.org>
	<e5febb4627b09.5138bf3e@optonline.net>
	<5138EB3C.7050803@daviddfriedman.com>
	<56DDB644A1AF6E4CB5CF6CB8B50FCDB40218DCE9@PGH-MSGMB-03.andrew.ad.cmu.edu>
	<5138F115.30704@daviddfriedman.com> <5139EF26.9070807@idlelion.net>
	<C1C821D7-7262-4B97-B4A3-08CC8F7388B9@mac.com>
Message-ID: <81CA8DF4-4362-4483-ADD8-B58033010578@mac.com>

Also see 
"The Cucurbitaceae and Solanaceae illustrated in medieval manuscripts known as the Tacuinum Sanitatis" by Paris, Daunay, and Janick.
http://aob.oxfordjournals.org/content/103/8/1187.full?sid=53240e2d-01d2-4131-b06c-b71a2da79f6d

"Background and Aims Beginning in the last two decades of the 14th century, richly illuminated versions of the Tacuinum Sanitatis, the Latin translation of an 11th-century Arabic manuscript known as Taqwim al-Sihha bi al-Ashab al-Sitta, were produced in northern Italy. These illustrated manuscripts provide a window on late medieval life in that region by containing some 200 full-page illustrations, many of which vividly depict the harvest of vegetables, fruits, flowers, grains, aromatics and medicinal plants. Our objective was to search for and identify the images of taxa of Cucurbitaceae and Solanaceae."
 
Johnnae

On Mar 8, 2013, at 12:23 PM, Johnna Holloway wrote:

> Start out with this article and then check the footnotes:
> 
> "Occidental diffusion of cucumber (Cucumis sativus) 500?1300 CE: two routes to Europe" by Paris, Daunay, and Janick.
> 
> http://aob.oxfordjournals.org/content/109/1/117.full
> 
> There's a full description if you scroll down for varieties grown in the east.
> 
> Johnnae


From lilinah at earthlink.net  Fri Mar  8 13:44:33 2013
From: lilinah at earthlink.net (lilinah at earthlink.net)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2013 13:44:33 -0800 (GMT-08:00)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Ethnic market epiphanies
Message-ID: <24534244.1362779073726.JavaMail.root@elwamui-muscovy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Back when i was not much more than a sprout, originally from the bland Midwest, but living in Manhattan, 1967-69, i'd go into ethnic stores and buy things i had no idea what to do with, such as yuba/tofu skin, and all manner of odd spices. The very first cookbooks i bought were Greek, Turkish, Persian, Indian, Indonesian, Chinese, and Japanese. It was a few years before i bought any that had "normal" American recipes - and i hardly ever used them.

I could walk dozens of blocks in any direction and make an expedition of discovery. I lived in a loft one block north of Union Square, back when there was almost nothing there besides Andy Warhol's Factory (which i never entered) and Max's Kansas City (where we could cash checks and see many of the Factory denizens). Manhattan was (and still is) an amazing place to explore the world through food.

Not quite as much variety here in the East San Francisco Bay, but certainly more than many other places in the US.

With certain items, it's sometimes good to buy different brands and try them, because preparations and flavors vary, and you might dislike one brand of some foodstuff and find you love another.

Someone sometimes called Urtatim

From lilinah at earthlink.net  Fri Mar  8 14:12:59 2013
From: lilinah at earthlink.net (lilinah at earthlink.net)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2013 14:12:59 -0800 (GMT-08:00)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Ethnic market epiphanies
Message-ID: <25012301.1362780779701.JavaMail.root@elwamui-muscovy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Cariadoc wrote:
> Chinese grocery stores carry Opo gourd, which I believe is the white 
> flowered gourd that was available in the Old World before the New World 
> squash/gourd/pumpkins came in.

Opo is the Filipino name for the gourd, so if you have Philippine/Pinoy population around, their markets probably have some. I've also found opo in South Asian markets. And there's always the Berkeley Bowl - here in Berkeley - which always has an astonishing array of fresh fruits and vegetables, a veritable wonderland of fresh produce.

> Persian/middle eastern/Indian groceries have sekanjabin syrup, semolina 
> (also available in many standard supermarkets), verjuice (labeled sour 
> grape juice)

The Persian name for sour grape juice is Abghureh and the Arabic is hisrim. In my experience it is far more sour, acrid, acidic, and just generally stronger than any verjus made in a California winery. I can pretty much drink a glass of California winery verjus straight up. But not the Middle Eastern stuff - whew! However, one bottle from which i had used a little sat in the back of my fridge for a year and was much mellower after that. I know i've bought it in halal markets, but recently several from which i'd previously bought it not only didn't have any, they claimed not to know what i was talking about. I did find it in a Persian market just up the street - yes, three halal markets in 1-1/2 blocks in Berkeley - one run by Pakistanis, one by Lebanese, and one by Persians.

> sesame oil from untoasted sesame, and almond oil.

Both are easily found in "health food" stores. And in my experience the quality of the sesame oil in the "health food" store is greatly superior to the oily, greasy, bitter, dark yellow oil i've gotten in a halal market, that smelled and tasted just short of being rancid even when i first opened the bottle.

> Also often goat. I managed to find mutton at one hallal butcher, but it 
> took searching, since they tend to use the term to include lamb and 
> goat--at this one he took me into the freezer to show me the size of 
> the animal he was cutting a piece off of for me.

I discovered that when i ask for lamb at the halal market i could be getting tender young lamb, old sheep, or goat. I got lamb many times in a local halal market and it was great. I don't like lamb much to begin with, however, and for one feast i cooked i could barely stand to stir the pot the meat smelled so strong - i think it was mutton, since i've eaten goat before, while living in Indonesia, and this was even worse.

> Edible camphor in an Indian grocery, but that took searching too.

I'm still looking for edible camphor around here, but so far no luck.

> Cubebs in an Indian grocery.

The first time i bought cubebs was in the mid-1970s in a spice shop in Santa Monica, CA. Those are still the best cubebs i have ever purchased. Nowadays, far too many spice vendors are selling false cubebs instead. Real cubebs are peppery and have a fragrant lemony aroma. False cubebs, also known as West African pepper, Ashanti pepper, Benin pepper, Guinea cubeb, and Uziza pepper, are much smaller, have little fragrance, lack the complex flavor of real cubebs, and the wrinkled skin slips off the seeds to reveal a somewhat shiny brick red seed. Caveat emptor!

Also, often the people who run ethnic markets are happy to talk about how they use the products that are unfamiliar to us. So don't be shy to ask.

When i live in or spend much time in a new city in the US, one of the first things i do is look for ethnic markets.

Someone sometimes called Urtatim
who cooked a lot of Southeast Asian food - Burmese, Thai, Vietnamese, Indonesian (and cuisine varies greatly from island to island and one region to another on a single island) back in the 1970s and 80s.

From aruvqan at gmail.com  Fri Mar  8 14:46:28 2013
From: aruvqan at gmail.com (aruvqan)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2013 17:46:28 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Bear was, Pantry Raid
In-Reply-To: <CABnRqDFwoanxD0WSZmyBeH2cR7oTAPrT_SW9UfhdiZMSsEOrUA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABnRqDFwoanxD0WSZmyBeH2cR7oTAPrT_SW9UfhdiZMSsEOrUA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <513A6A44.7020500@gmail.com>

On 3/7/2013 11:33 AM, Valleri Collins wrote:
>   "I wonder if this is what dog tastes like,"
Tastes like stringy pork, actually.

From JIMCHEVAL at aol.com  Fri Mar  8 23:03:12 2013
From: JIMCHEVAL at aol.com (JIMCHEVAL at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2013 02:03:12 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Ethnic market epiphanies
Message-ID: <12742.581098ad.3e6c38b0@aol.com>

And good thing too. This was after all a product that was used much in the  
same way as vinegar. 

I bought some "verjuice" at a farmer's market and  was dismayed to find it 
was essentially sweet grape juice. While there is some  evidence of medieval 
people drinking it, Roman soldiers drank something very  like vinegar too. 
It's very name - "green juice" - emphasizes how tart it should  be.
 
Jim  Chevallier
www.chezjim.com

Newly translated from Pierre Jean-Baptiste  Le Grand d'Aussy:
Eggs, Cheese and Butter in Old Regime France  

 
In a message dated 3/8/2013 2:13:03 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,  
lilinah at earthlink.net writes:

In my  experience it is far more sour, acrid, acidic, and just generally 
stronger  than any verjus made in a California winery. I can pretty much drink 
a glass  of California winery verjus straight up. But not the Middle 
Eastern stuff -  whew! 


From johnnae at mac.com  Sat Mar  9 06:32:46 2013
From: johnnae at mac.com (Johnna Holloway)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2013 09:32:46 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] New fashion in dining
Message-ID: <91658400-9532-448C-A2CD-2EEFAE9D4D31@mac.com>

While people are either at PPF or Gulf Wars, the CBS Saturday Morning News just did a segment on this new menu, except they mentioned creme brulee with a dirt sauce.

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=50142487n

Print versions:
"Japanese Restaurant Serves Meal of Dirt ? for $110"
http://newsfeed.time.com/2013/01/30/japanese-restaurant-serves-meal-of-dirt-for-110/
or
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/16/dirt-diner_n_2666592.html

Johnnae

From lcm at jeffnet.org  Sat Mar  9 07:30:43 2013
From: lcm at jeffnet.org (Laura C. Minnick)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2013 07:30:43 -0800
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Ethnic market epiphanies
In-Reply-To: <12742.581098ad.3e6c38b0@aol.com>
References: <12742.581098ad.3e6c38b0@aol.com>
Message-ID: <513B55A3.3040708@jeffnet.org>

On 3/8/2013 11:03 PM, JIMCHEVAL at aol.com wrote:
> And good thing too. This was after all a product that was used much in the
> same way as vinegar.
>
> I bought some "verjuice" at a farmer's market and  was dismayed to find it
> was essentially sweet grape juice. While there is some  evidence of medieval
> people drinking it, Roman soldiers drank something very  like vinegar too.
> It's very name - "green juice" - emphasizes how tart it should  be.
>
I think you can find discussions on verjuice in our archives, and in 
Stefan's 'Florilegium'. It is indeed quite tart- you farmer either 
mislabeled it, or they don't know what they're doing..

I have found it commercially a couple of times (that reminds me- I'm 
out), and while you can substitute diluted vinegar in a pinch, there's 
nothing quite like the real stuff. Just a little can really wake up a dish.

Liutgard

-- 
"It is our choices Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our 
abilities." -Albus Dumbledore ~~~Follow my Queenly perambulations at: 
http://slugcrossings.blogspot.com/

From ranvaig at columbus.rr.com  Sat Mar  9 10:57:33 2013
From: ranvaig at columbus.rr.com (Sharon Palmer)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2013 13:57:33 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Bear, was Pantry Raid
In-Reply-To: <CAFoYnQ0bV1yze2uzwYgzx4gEq6Gkt=5fN+jyZ=n=ELqpuo7ppw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFoYnQ0bV1yze2uzwYgzx4gEq6Gkt=5fN+jyZ=n=ELqpuo7ppw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p06010207cd61356bc1b4@[10.0.1.112]>

>Now, one thing that IS specifically for the Symposium.  There is a potluck
>Friday night, again.  I was just given about 5 pounds of bear (NOT
>Bear)...anyone have any brilliant ideas?

Rumpolt only suggests using the head and feet (which seems rather a 
waste).  But the lemon almond sauce sounds interesting.

 From a Bear
Take the feet from a bear/ set them to (the fire) with water/ and let 
them simmer so long/ that the hair goes away/ then trim them clean/ 
and cook them in a good pepper (sauce)/ (or??) in an almond gescharb 
sauce/ white and sour with lemon/ then it becomes good and well 
tasting. 

Take the bear feet/ and the bear head/ singe on the fire/ as one 
singes a wild pig/ set it to (the fire)/ and cook (simmer) it/ as one 
makes it from a wild pig/ take it out/ and let it become cold/ trim 
them/ and clean them off/ like this it is good to eat.

Sharon

From aruvqan at gmail.com  Sat Mar  9 23:24:18 2013
From: aruvqan at gmail.com (aruvqan)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2013 03:24:18 -0400
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Ethnic market epiphanies
In-Reply-To: <513B55A3.3040708@jeffnet.org>
References: <12742.581098ad.3e6c38b0@aol.com> <513B55A3.3040708@jeffnet.org>
Message-ID: <513C3522.7010005@gmail.com>

On 3/9/2013 10:30 AM, Laura C. Minnick wrote:
> On 3/8/2013 11:03 PM, JIMCHEVAL at aol.com wrote:
>> And good thing too. This was after all a product that was used much 
>> in the
>> same way as vinegar.
>>
>> I bought some "verjuice" at a farmer's market and  was dismayed to 
>> find it
>> was essentially sweet grape juice. While there is some  evidence of 
>> medieval
>> people drinking it, Roman soldiers drank something very  like vinegar 
>> too.
>> It's very name - "green juice" - emphasizes how tart it should be.
>>
> I think you can find discussions on verjuice in our archives, and in 
> Stefan's 'Florilegium'. It is indeed quite tart- you farmer either 
> mislabeled it, or they don't know what they're doing..
>
I think you ended up with mustum vinum, basically. Though mustum vinum 
more or less is 'new juice' which is then boiled down to condense to be 
used more or less as a sweetening agent like we would use barley 'juice' 
or agave nectar. [Mustum cakes are little cookies that more or less use 
mustum to sweeten them and are baked on a layer of bay leaves. Very tasty.]

From dama.antonia at gmail.com  Sat Mar  9 23:38:55 2013
From: dama.antonia at gmail.com (Antonia di Benedetto Calvo)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2013 20:38:55 +1300
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Ethnic market epiphanies
In-Reply-To: <513C3522.7010005@gmail.com>
References: <12742.581098ad.3e6c38b0@aol.com> <513B55A3.3040708@jeffnet.org>
	<513C3522.7010005@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <513C388F.2050307@gmail.com>

On 10/03/2013 8:24 p.m., aruvqan wrote:
> On 3/9/2013 10:30 AM, Laura C. Minnick wrote:
>> On 3/8/2013 11:03 PM, JIMCHEVAL at aol.com wrote:
>>> And good thing too. This was after all a product that was used much 
>>> in the
>>> same way as vinegar.
>>>
>>> I bought some "verjuice" at a farmer's market and  was dismayed to 
>>> find it
>>> was essentially sweet grape juice. While there is some evidence of 
>>> medieval
>>> people drinking it, Roman soldiers drank something very  like 
>>> vinegar too.
>>> It's very name - "green juice" - emphasizes how tart it should be.
>>>
>> I think you can find discussions on verjuice in our archives, and in 
>> Stefan's 'Florilegium'. It is indeed quite tart- you farmer either 
>> mislabeled it, or they don't know what they're doing..
>>
> I think you ended up with mustum vinum, basically. Though mustum vinum 
> more or less is 'new juice' which is then boiled down to condense to 
> be used more or less as a sweetening agent like we would use barley 
> 'juice' or agave nectar. [Mustum cakes are little cookies that more or 
> less use mustum to sweeten them and are baked on a layer of bay 
> leaves. Very tasty.]
>

Mosto cotto (boiled-down must) isn't entirely a sweetener.  It *is* 
sweet, but it's not sweet-sweet like agave.  It's also sour and complex, 
kind of like balsamic vinegar.  Platina mentions using it to dress 
roasted onions (which is delicious, by the way).


-- 
Antonia di Benedetto Calvo
-------------------------------------
Saccharum pergratum. Villum lubricum.


From johnnae at mac.com  Mon Mar 11 12:51:51 2013
From: johnnae at mac.com (Johnna Holloway)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 15:51:51 -0400
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Food History on Parade in NYC
Message-ID: <95D036C5-244A-40AD-BEF4-AC8428090E02@mac.com>

Food History on Parade by Meryle Evans	 / March 2013

New York City?A working kitchen with daily demonstrations by chefs and farmers, smack in the middle of the American Museum of Natural History? It?s the centerpiece of ?Our Global Kitchen: Food, Nature, Culture,? a new major exhibit that explores our complex relationship with food.

Read more at 
http://foodarts.com/news/front-burner/25183/food-history-on-parade

http://www.amnh.org/exhibitions/current-exhibitions/our-global-kitchen-food-nature-culture

Johnnae

From trekatz at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 13 01:27:59 2013
From: trekatz at yahoo.com (Tre)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 01:27:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] http://www.goldengoatstudios.com/raydillon/xarqs.html
Message-ID: <1363163279.76422.YahooMailNeo@web142606.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

http://memorableapps.com/blog/travel/neqsi.html

From trekatz at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 13 01:28:03 2013
From: trekatz at yahoo.com (Tre)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 01:28:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] http://derekbw.net/hdirwanda/resources/wddnm.html
Message-ID: <1363163283.56663.YahooMailNeo@web142604.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

http://bel-luna.com/nuevo/zhapo.html

From JIMCHEVAL at aol.com  Wed Mar 13 07:44:44 2013
From: JIMCHEVAL at aol.com (JIMCHEVAL at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 10:44:44 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] BEWARE THE LINKS JUST POSTED!!!!
Message-ID: <4b5a2.7f6fecae.3e71eadc@aol.com>

Is it really necessary to warn people never to click on a link that just  
arrives without any real explanation?
The two that just appeared are textbook  examples thereof. 

(Sorry if this was obvious to some people, but you can  bet it wasn't to 
everyone.)
 
Jim  Chevallier
www.chezjim.com

Newly translated from Pierre Jean-Baptiste  Le Grand d'Aussy:
Eggs, Cheese and Butter in Old Regime  France

From ddfr at daviddfriedman.com  Wed Mar 13 10:47:01 2013
From: ddfr at daviddfriedman.com (David Friedman)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 10:47:01 -0700
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Review of two recent books
In-Reply-To: <513C388F.2050307@gmail.com>
References: <12742.581098ad.3e6c38b0@aol.com> <513B55A3.3040708@jeffnet.org>
	<513C3522.7010005@gmail.com> <513C388F.2050307@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5140BB95.40104@daviddfriedman.com>

Someone just sent me the link.

http://www.the-tls.co.uk/tls/public/article1225718.ece#.UUCcWTaMjF0.gmail

The reviewer doesn't seem to have actually read any medieval recipes, 
but the books sound interesting.

-- 
David Friedman
www.daviddfriedman.com
http://daviddfriedman.blogspot.com/


From johnnae at mac.com  Wed Mar 13 11:18:20 2013
From: johnnae at mac.com (Johnna Holloway)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 14:18:20 -0400
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Review of two recent books
In-Reply-To: <5140BB95.40104@daviddfriedman.com>
References: <12742.581098ad.3e6c38b0@aol.com> <513B55A3.3040708@jeffnet.org>
	<513C3522.7010005@gmail.com> <513C388F.2050307@gmail.com>
	<5140BB95.40104@daviddfriedman.com>
Message-ID: <82A26D9A-8468-4048-8B09-402DCF3F8A0A@mac.com>

Peter Brears' Cooking and Dining in Medieval England is a marvelous text
and well worth the investment. This reviewer seems to have missed the hardback edition which appeared in
2008. The book won the prestigious  Andr? Simon Food Book of the Year Award in 2009.
Review by Constance Hieatt which appeared in Speculum
https://prospectbooks.co.uk/books/978-1-903018-87-3#92

https://prospectbooks.co.uk/books/978-1-903018-87-3

My own review appears in TI for Third quarter 2008.

Johnnae

On Mar 13, 2013, at 1:47 PM, David Friedman wrote:

> Someone just sent me the link.
> 
> http://www.the-tls.co.uk/tls/public/article1225718.ece#.UUCcWTaMjF0.gmail
> 
> The reviewer doesn't seem to have actually read any medieval recipes, but the books sound interesting.
> 
> -- 
> David Friedman


From ranvaig at columbus.rr.com  Fri Mar 15 00:37:15 2013
From: ranvaig at columbus.rr.com (Sharon Palmer)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2013 03:37:15 -0400
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Irish food
Message-ID: <p06010204cd687f8e9e20@[10.0.1.112]>

In honor of St. Pat's, anyone want to talk about period Irish food?
Or modern food you plan to make for the day?

Ranvaig

From karobert at unm.edu  Fri Mar 15 07:44:53 2013
From: karobert at unm.edu (Kathleen Roberts)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2013 14:44:53 +0000
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Irish food
In-Reply-To: <p06010204cd687f8e9e20@[10.0.1.112]>
References: <p06010204cd687f8e9e20@[10.0.1.112]>
Message-ID: <AF2F1DA7964D6344A6B72C61AC9AA9530DAB1E9D@CH1PRD0711MB432.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>

Did someone say..................  LOL!

Not much for me this year, on a strict budget this month.  But some nice ham slices from the freezer, and taters and cabbage will make us happy. ;)

Maybe some Guiness beef stew instead but it depends.   

My husband is of the 'taste this' carousel for the season, so I am keeping things homey and familiar.  He puts up with so much!

I ***could*** freak him out with an Irish breakfast, sans puddings.  That could be fun. ;)


Cailte

Kathleen Roberts

Supervisor, Student Records

Division of Enrollment Management

University of New Mexico

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Being Irish, he had an abiding sense of tragedy, which sustained him through temporary periods of joy."  W.B. Yeats



"The hand that rocks the ladle rules the world."  Nadia G.

________________________________________
From: sca-cooks-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org [sca-cooks-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org] on behalf of Sharon Palmer [ranvaig at columbus.rr.com]
Sent: Friday, March 15, 2013 1:37 AM
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Irish food

In honor of St. Pat's, anyone want to talk about period Irish food?
Or modern food you plan to make for the day?

Ranvaig
_______________________________________________
Sca-cooks mailing list
Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org

From chefchristy at kingstaste.com  Fri Mar 15 08:22:22 2013
From: chefchristy at kingstaste.com (Chef Christy)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2013 11:22:22 -0400
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Irish food
In-Reply-To: <p06010204cd687f8e9e20@[10.0.1.112]>
References: <p06010204cd687f8e9e20@[10.0.1.112]>
Message-ID: <028001ce2190$e6aa49d0$4101a8c0@TROUBADOR>

We made foods for an Irish Breakfast in cooking class yesterday.  Irish Soda
Bread with Currants (one regular and one gluten-free), Colcannon, Sauteed
Mushroom Caps in Butter, Fried Eggs, and Breakfast Tea with Milk.  We talked
a lot about Black Pudding and the kids kept trying to find someone to agree
to a blood sacrifice so we could try it out, but we got no takers ;)
If I had realized it was Pi Day yesterday we might have made pie instead,
but the breakfast foods were a big hit so a good time was had by all. 
Christianna


In honor of St. Pat's, anyone want to talk about period Irish food?
Or modern food you plan to make for the day?

Ranvaig


From susanrlin at gmail.com  Fri Mar 15 14:43:09 2013
From: susanrlin at gmail.com (Susan Lin)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2013 15:43:09 -0600
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Irish food
In-Reply-To: <028001ce2190$e6aa49d0$4101a8c0@TROUBADOR>
References: <p06010204cd687f8e9e20@10.0.1.112>
	<028001ce2190$e6aa49d0$4101a8c0@TROUBADOR>
Message-ID: <CAHkO8TRhmLqZoyw0h0e35s6CqeHwW54q0hNsJUiY7fiarVhptQ@mail.gmail.com>

In honor of Pi day I did make a pie - blueberry/cherry.  I even have my pi
plate (pi symbol in the middle and 3.14159... around the edge)

For St. Patrick's Day I have a brisket pickling in the fridge.  I started
with a whole brisket - cut off a chunk for the husband to smoke and then
trimmed the rest and attacked it with 2 head of garlic and spiced brine.
 We'll cooking it up for Sunday with potatoes cabbage and soda bread (our
soda bread is made with both soda and powder but it's yummy) - no currant -
I don't like cooked raisins (specifically I do not like burnt raisins).

Shoshanah

On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 9:22 AM, Chef Christy <chefchristy at kingstaste.com>wrote:

> We made foods for an Irish Breakfast in cooking class yesterday.  Irish
> Soda
> Bread with Currants (one regular and one gluten-free), Colcannon, Sauteed
> Mushroom Caps in Butter, Fried Eggs, and Breakfast Tea with Milk.  We
> talked
> a lot about Black Pudding and the kids kept trying to find someone to agree
> to a blood sacrifice so we could try it out, but we got no takers ;)
> If I had realized it was Pi Day yesterday we might have made pie instead,
> but the breakfast foods were a big hit so a good time was had by all.
> Christianna
>
>
> In honor of St. Pat's, anyone want to talk about period Irish food?
> Or modern food you plan to make for the day?
>
> Ranvaig
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org
>

From karobert at unm.edu  Fri Mar 15 14:51:57 2013
From: karobert at unm.edu (Kathleen Roberts)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2013 21:51:57 +0000
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Irish food - OOP
Message-ID: <AF2F1DA7964D6344A6B72C61AC9AA9530DAB2F37@CH1PRD0711MB432.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>

I can't say that it is true, but (sane food hearsay is fun)...

It is said that the Irish did indeed tend more toward bacon or ham and cabbage in Ireland (trad here, not period)

When they came to the US, they usually landed in New York, and the area was rich with a culture that used non-piggy meats, so the Irish adapted to the corned beef rather than the accustomed ham or bacon.

Yeah, I know... and St. Paddy drove the snakes out of Ireland as well. ;)  and "Gangs of New York" is way up there with "The Quiet Man" for St. Patrick's Day viewing.

Kathleen Roberts



Supervisor, Student Records

Division of Enrollment Management

University of New Mexico

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Being Irish, he had an abiding sense of tragedy, which sustained him through temporary periods of joy."  W.B. Yeats



"The hand that rocks the ladle rules the world."  Nadia G.

________________________________________
From: sca-cooks-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org [sca-cooks-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org] on behalf of Susan Lin [susanrlin at gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, March 15, 2013 3:43 PM
To: Cooks within the SCA
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Irish food

In honor of Pi day I did make a pie - blueberry/cherry.  I even have my pi
plate (pi symbol in the middle and 3.14159... around the edge)

For St. Patrick's Day I have a brisket pickling in the fridge.  I started
with a whole brisket - cut off a chunk for the husband to smoke and then
trimmed the rest and attacked it with 2 head of garlic and spiced brine.
 We'll cooking it up for Sunday with potatoes cabbage and soda bread (our
soda bread is made with both soda and powder but it's yummy) - no currant -
I don't like cooked raisins (specifically I do not like burnt raisins).

Shoshanah

On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 9:22 AM, Chef Christy <chefchristy at kingstaste.com>wrote:

> We made foods for an Irish Breakfast in cooking class yesterday.  Irish
> Soda
> Bread with Currants (one regular and one gluten-free), Colcannon, Sauteed
> Mushroom Caps in Butter, Fried Eggs, and Breakfast Tea with Milk.  We
> talked
> a lot about Black Pudding and the kids kept trying to find someone to agree
> to a blood sacrifice so we could try it out, but we got no takers ;)
> If I had realized it was Pi Day yesterday we might have made pie instead,
> but the breakfast foods were a big hit so a good time was had by all.
> Christianna
>
>
> In honor of St. Pat's, anyone want to talk about period Irish food?
> Or modern food you plan to make for the day?
>
> Ranvaig
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org
>
_______________________________________________
Sca-cooks mailing list
Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org

From StefanliRous at austin.rr.com  Fri Mar 15 15:24:31 2013
From: StefanliRous at austin.rr.com (Stefan li Rous)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2013 17:24:31 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Irish food
Message-ID: <54A2B7A3-62E4-4DBC-9DAA-19C4A34C0A98@austin.rr.com>

<<< In honor of St. Pat's, anyone want to talk about period Irish food?
Or modern food you plan to make for the day?

Ranvaig >>>

Christianna mentioned: "Colcannon".

What is this?

And she mentioned "Breakfast Tea with Milk"

What about this tea makes it "breakfast" tea?

<<< I ***could*** freak him out with an Irish breakfast, sans puddings.  That could be fun. ;)

Cailte >>>

Why "sans puddings"? Are those just too weird for him?

The problem with period Irish food is the lack of period records or cookbooks. However, some things like taters/potatoes are barely period for Spain and Italy, certainly not period for a backwater like Ireland. "Everyone" thinks of potatoes and Ireland though because of the Irish potato famine, but that was in the 19th Century.

Here are some of our past discussions on period Irish food or at least likely period Irish food.

fd-Iceland-msg (96K) 1/ 6/11 Food of medieval Iceland. Recipes.
http://www.florilegium.org/files/FOOD-BY-REGION/fd-Ireland-msg.html

I do need to come up with a "traditional" or otherwise Irish food to go along with my mother-in-law's cabbage and corned beef she has invited us to on Sunday.

Stefan
--------
THLord Stefan li Rous    Barony of Bryn Gwlad    Kingdom of Ansteorra
   Mark S. Harris           Austin, Texas          StefanliRous at austin.rr.com
http://www.linkedin.com/in/marksharris
**** See Stefan's Florilegium files at:  http://www.florilegium.org ****







From mistressaldyth at gmail.com  Fri Mar 15 15:35:41 2013
From: mistressaldyth at gmail.com (Deborah Hammons)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2013 16:35:41 -0600
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Irish food - OOP
In-Reply-To: <AF2F1DA7964D6344A6B72C61AC9AA9530DAB2F37@CH1PRD0711MB432.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
References: <AF2F1DA7964D6344A6B72C61AC9AA9530DAB2F37@CH1PRD0711MB432.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAPPosh4oSu+sLESmyWYxghhMdta1xh2ONc0EoTd2J=KidLuDVg@mail.gmail.com>

My Irish granddaughter really laughed at the corned beef and cabbage
thing.  They do streaky bacon and either cabbage or potatoes and carrots,
sometimes all the vegetables, with the "traditional" soda bread.
Buttermilk starter.  The beef thing was originally a really salted beef.
REALLY pricey even now since hunk of cow is not readily available there.
Hence the migration to streaky bacon.

Aldyth

On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 3:51 PM, Kathleen Roberts <karobert at unm.edu> wrote:

> I can't say that it is true, but (sane food hearsay is fun)...
>
> It is said that the Irish did indeed tend more toward bacon or ham and
> cabbage in Ireland (trad here, not period)
>
> When they came to the US, they usually landed in New York, and the area
> was rich with a culture that used non-piggy meats, so the Irish adapted to
> the corned beef rather than the accustomed ham or bacon.
>
> Yeah, I know... and St. Paddy drove the snakes out of Ireland as well. ;)
>  and "Gangs of New York" is way up there with "The Quiet Man" for St.
> Patrick's Day viewing.
>
> Kathleen Roberts
>
>
>
> Supervisor, Student Records
>
> Division of Enrollment Management
>
> University of New Mexico
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> "Being Irish, he had an abiding sense of tragedy, which sustained him
> through temporary periods of joy."  W.B. Yeats
>
>
>
> "The hand that rocks the ladle rules the world."  Nadia G.
>
> ________________________________________
> From: sca-cooks-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org [
> sca-cooks-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org] on behalf of Susan Lin [
> susanrlin at gmail.com]
> Sent: Friday, March 15, 2013 3:43 PM
> To: Cooks within the SCA
> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Irish food
>
> In honor of Pi day I did make a pie - blueberry/cherry.  I even have my pi
> plate (pi symbol in the middle and 3.14159... around the edge)
>
> For St. Patrick's Day I have a brisket pickling in the fridge.  I started
> with a whole brisket - cut off a chunk for the husband to smoke and then
> trimmed the rest and attacked it with 2 head of garlic and spiced brine.
>  We'll cooking it up for Sunday with potatoes cabbage and soda bread (our
> soda bread is made with both soda and powder but it's yummy) - no currant -
> I don't like cooked raisins (specifically I do not like burnt raisins).
>
> Shoshanah
>
> On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 9:22 AM, Chef Christy <chefchristy at kingstaste.com
> >wrote:
>
> > We made foods for an Irish Breakfast in cooking class yesterday.  Irish
> > Soda
> > Bread with Currants (one regular and one gluten-free), Colcannon, Sauteed
> > Mushroom Caps in Butter, Fried Eggs, and Breakfast Tea with Milk.  We
> > talked
> > a lot about Black Pudding and the kids kept trying to find someone to
> agree
> > to a blood sacrifice so we could try it out, but we got no takers ;)
> > If I had realized it was Pi Day yesterday we might have made pie instead,
> > but the breakfast foods were a big hit so a good time was had by all.
> > Christianna
> >
> >
> > In honor of St. Pat's, anyone want to talk about period Irish food?
> > Or modern food you plan to make for the day?
> >
> > Ranvaig
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sca-cooks mailing list
> > Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> > http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org
> _______________________________________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org
>

From karobert at unm.edu  Fri Mar 15 15:46:29 2013
From: karobert at unm.edu (Kathleen Roberts)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2013 22:46:29 +0000
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Irish food
In-Reply-To: <54A2B7A3-62E4-4DBC-9DAA-19C4A34C0A98@austin.rr.com>
References: <54A2B7A3-62E4-4DBC-9DAA-19C4A34C0A98@austin.rr.com>
Message-ID: <AF2F1DA7964D6344A6B72C61AC9AA9530DAB2F72@CH1PRD0711MB432.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>

Sans puddings (i.e. white and black) due to budget.  I am working with the freezer this weekend. LOL!  When we were at the B and B in Ireland, he 'tasted" them, and I ate them.  He's pretty omniverous tho...

Why not some soda bread for Mum's dinner?  Easy to make.  Or some scones?  With, of course (if available near you) Kerrygold Butter.

A lot of modern Irish recipes are getting on the frou-frou train.  Even with pros like Darina Allen, you need to make sure she is not pandering to the tourist/foody trade and you are really looking at her researched trad food.

Good traditional Irish cooking is very simple, like honey glazed turnips  (boiled turnips, salt, honey, butter... toss in pan until glazed... simple).

Cailte
(thinking of turnips now....)



Kathleen Roberts

Supervisor, Student Records

Division of Enrollment Management

University of New Mexico

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Being Irish, he had an abiding sense of tragedy, which sustained him through temporary periods of joy."  W.B. Yeats



"The hand that rocks the ladle rules the world."  Nadia G.

________________________________________
From: sca-cooks-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org [sca-cooks-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org] on behalf of Stefan li Rous [StefanliRous at austin.rr.com]
Sent: Friday, March 15, 2013 4:24 PM
To: SCA-Cooks maillist SCA-Cooks
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Irish food

<<< In honor of St. Pat's, anyone want to talk about period Irish food?
Or modern food you plan to make for the day?

Ranvaig >>>

Christianna mentioned: "Colcannon".

What is this?

And she mentioned "Breakfast Tea with Milk"

What about this tea makes it "breakfast" tea?

<<< I ***could*** freak him out with an Irish breakfast, sans puddings.  That could be fun. ;)

Cailte >>>

Why "sans puddings"? Are those just too weird for him?

The problem with period Irish food is the lack of period records or cookbooks. However, some things like taters/potatoes are barely period for Spain and Italy, certainly not period for a backwater like Ireland. "Everyone" thinks of potatoes and Ireland though because of the Irish potato famine, but that was in the 19th Century.

Here are some of our past discussions on period Irish food or at least likely period Irish food.

fd-Iceland-msg (96K) 1/ 6/11 Food of medieval Iceland. Recipes.
http://www.florilegium.org/files/FOOD-BY-REGION/fd-Ireland-msg.html

I do need to come up with a "traditional" or otherwise Irish food to go along with my mother-in-law's cabbage and corned beef she has invited us to on Sunday.

Stefan
--------
THLord Stefan li Rous    Barony of Bryn Gwlad    Kingdom of Ansteorra
   Mark S. Harris           Austin, Texas          StefanliRous at austin.rr.com
http://www.linkedin.com/in/marksharris
**** See Stefan's Florilegium files at:  http://www.florilegium.org ****






_______________________________________________
Sca-cooks mailing list
Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org

From mistressaldyth at gmail.com  Fri Mar 15 15:49:01 2013
From: mistressaldyth at gmail.com (Deborah Hammons)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2013 16:49:01 -0600
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Irish food
In-Reply-To: <AF2F1DA7964D6344A6B72C61AC9AA9530DAB2F72@CH1PRD0711MB432.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
References: <54A2B7A3-62E4-4DBC-9DAA-19C4A34C0A98@austin.rr.com>
	<AF2F1DA7964D6344A6B72C61AC9AA9530DAB2F72@CH1PRD0711MB432.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAPPosh7OZqp2P-cNc3RkJUOM5VMm57z+XV_krooDT=ZVxdetsQ@mail.gmail.com>

And turnips over there are WONDERFUL.  :-))  I am not such a fan of the
black pudding.  White, mostly fat.  But then when we were in Spain I didn't
do much blood sausage either.  In soups yes.

Aldyth

On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 4:46 PM, Kathleen Roberts <karobert at unm.edu> wrote:

> Sans puddings (i.e. white and black) due to budget.  I am working with the
> freezer this weekend. LOL!  When we were at the B and B in Ireland, he
> 'tasted" them, and I ate them.  He's pretty omniverous tho...
>
> Why not some soda bread for Mum's dinner?  Easy to make.  Or some scones?
>  With, of course (if available near you) Kerrygold Butter.
>
> A lot of modern Irish recipes are getting on the frou-frou train.  Even
> with pros like Darina Allen, you need to make sure she is not pandering to
> the tourist/foody trade and you are really looking at her researched trad
> food.
>
> Good traditional Irish cooking is very simple, like honey glazed turnips
>  (boiled turnips, salt, honey, butter... toss in pan until glazed...
> simple).
>
> Cailte
> (thinking of turnips now....)
>
>
>
> Kathleen Roberts
>
> Supervisor, Student Records
>
> Division of Enrollment Management
>
> University of New Mexico
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> "Being Irish, he had an abiding sense of tragedy, which sustained him
> through temporary periods of joy."  W.B. Yeats
>
>
>
> "The hand that rocks the ladle rules the world."  Nadia G.
>
> ________________________________________
> From: sca-cooks-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org [
> sca-cooks-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org] on behalf of Stefan li Rous [
> StefanliRous at austin.rr.com]
> Sent: Friday, March 15, 2013 4:24 PM
> To: SCA-Cooks maillist SCA-Cooks
> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Irish food
>
> <<< In honor of St. Pat's, anyone want to talk about period Irish food?
> Or modern food you plan to make for the day?
>
> Ranvaig >>>
>
> Christianna mentioned: "Colcannon".
>
> What is this?
>
> And she mentioned "Breakfast Tea with Milk"
>
> What about this tea makes it "breakfast" tea?
>
> <<< I ***could*** freak him out with an Irish breakfast, sans puddings.
>  That could be fun. ;)
>
> Cailte >>>
>
> Why "sans puddings"? Are those just too weird for him?
>
> The problem with period Irish food is the lack of period records or
> cookbooks. However, some things like taters/potatoes are barely period for
> Spain and Italy, certainly not period for a backwater like Ireland.
> "Everyone" thinks of potatoes and Ireland though because of the Irish
> potato famine, but that was in the 19th Century.
>
> Here are some of our past discussions on period Irish food or at least
> likely period Irish food.
>
> fd-Iceland-msg (96K) 1/ 6/11 Food of medieval Iceland. Recipes.
> http://www.florilegium.org/files/FOOD-BY-REGION/fd-Ireland-msg.html
>
> I do need to come up with a "traditional" or otherwise Irish food to go
> along with my mother-in-law's cabbage and corned beef she has invited us to
> on Sunday.
>
> Stefan
> --------
> THLord Stefan li Rous    Barony of Bryn Gwlad    Kingdom of Ansteorra
>    Mark S. Harris           Austin, Texas
> StefanliRous at austin.rr.com
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/marksharris
> **** See Stefan's Florilegium files at:  http://www.florilegium.org ****
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org
> _______________________________________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org
>

From karobert at unm.edu  Fri Mar 15 15:58:37 2013
From: karobert at unm.edu (Kathleen Roberts)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2013 22:58:37 +0000
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Irish food
In-Reply-To: <CAPPosh7OZqp2P-cNc3RkJUOM5VMm57z+XV_krooDT=ZVxdetsQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <54A2B7A3-62E4-4DBC-9DAA-19C4A34C0A98@austin.rr.com>
	<AF2F1DA7964D6344A6B72C61AC9AA9530DAB2F72@CH1PRD0711MB432.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>,
	<CAPPosh7OZqp2P-cNc3RkJUOM5VMm57z+XV_krooDT=ZVxdetsQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AF2F1DA7964D6344A6B72C61AC9AA9530DAB2F8D@CH1PRD0711MB432.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>

And the brussell sprouts... my gawd!!!!!!!   THE PRODUCE!!!!!!!!

Cailte

Kathleen Roberts

Supervisor, Student Records

Division of Enrollment Management

University of New Mexico

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Being Irish, he had an abiding sense of tragedy, which sustained him through temporary periods of joy."  W.B. Yeats



"The hand that rocks the ladle rules the world."  Nadia G.

________________________________________
From: sca-cooks-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org [sca-cooks-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org] on behalf of Deborah Hammons [mistressaldyth at gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, March 15, 2013 4:49 PM
To: Cooks within the SCA
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Irish food

And turnips over there are WONDERFUL.  :-))  I am not such a fan of the
black pudding.  White, mostly fat.  But then when we were in Spain I didn't
do much blood sausage either.  In soups yes.

Aldyth

On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 4:46 PM, Kathleen Roberts <karobert at unm.edu> wrote:

> Sans puddings (i.e. white and black) due to budget.  I am working with the
> freezer this weekend. LOL!  When we were at the B and B in Ireland, he
> 'tasted" them, and I ate them.  He's pretty omniverous tho...
>
> Why not some soda bread for Mum's dinner?  Easy to make.  Or some scones?
>  With, of course (if available near you) Kerrygold Butter.
>
> A lot of modern Irish recipes are getting on the frou-frou train.  Even
> with pros like Darina Allen, you need to make sure she is not pandering to
> the tourist/foody trade and you are really looking at her researched trad
> food.
>
> Good traditional Irish cooking is very simple, like honey glazed turnips
>  (boiled turnips, salt, honey, butter... toss in pan until glazed...
> simple).
>
> Cailte
> (thinking of turnips now....)
>
>
>
> Kathleen Roberts
>
> Supervisor, Student Records
>
> Division of Enrollment Management
>
> University of New Mexico
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> "Being Irish, he had an abiding sense of tragedy, which sustained him
> through temporary periods of joy."  W.B. Yeats
>
>
>
> "The hand that rocks the ladle rules the world."  Nadia G.
>
> ________________________________________
> From: sca-cooks-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org [
> sca-cooks-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org] on behalf of Stefan li Rous [
> StefanliRous at austin.rr.com]
> Sent: Friday, March 15, 2013 4:24 PM
> To: SCA-Cooks maillist SCA-Cooks
> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Irish food
>
> <<< In honor of St. Pat's, anyone want to talk about period Irish food?
> Or modern food you plan to make for the day?
>
> Ranvaig >>>
>
> Christianna mentioned: "Colcannon".
>
> What is this?
>
> And she mentioned "Breakfast Tea with Milk"
>
> What about this tea makes it "breakfast" tea?
>
> <<< I ***could*** freak him out with an Irish breakfast, sans puddings.
>  That could be fun. ;)
>
> Cailte >>>
>
> Why "sans puddings"? Are those just too weird for him?
>
> The problem with period Irish food is the lack of period records or
> cookbooks. However, some things like taters/potatoes are barely period for
> Spain and Italy, certainly not period for a backwater like Ireland.
> "Everyone" thinks of potatoes and Ireland though because of the Irish
> potato famine, but that was in the 19th Century.
>
> Here are some of our past discussions on period Irish food or at least
> likely period Irish food.
>
> fd-Iceland-msg (96K) 1/ 6/11 Food of medieval Iceland. Recipes.
> http://www.florilegium.org/files/FOOD-BY-REGION/fd-Ireland-msg.html
>
> I do need to come up with a "traditional" or otherwise Irish food to go
> along with my mother-in-law's cabbage and corned beef she has invited us to
> on Sunday.
>
> Stefan
> --------
> THLord Stefan li Rous    Barony of Bryn Gwlad    Kingdom of Ansteorra
>    Mark S. Harris           Austin, Texas
> StefanliRous at austin.rr.com
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/marksharris
> **** See Stefan's Florilegium files at:  http://www.florilegium.org ****
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org
> _______________________________________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org
>
_______________________________________________
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Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org

From susanrlin at gmail.com  Fri Mar 15 16:07:52 2013
From: susanrlin at gmail.com (Susan Lin)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2013 17:07:52 -0600
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Irish food - OOP
In-Reply-To: <AF2F1DA7964D6344A6B72C61AC9AA9530DAB2F37@CH1PRD0711MB432.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
References: <AF2F1DA7964D6344A6B72C61AC9AA9530DAB2F37@CH1PRD0711MB432.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAHkO8TQEAEn7wjrOkr_zbvT4b4tZVpd5devjvjXup7wmLD9G8w@mail.gmail.com>

OOOH The Quiet Man - I love that movie.

Shoshanah

On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 3:51 PM, Kathleen Roberts <karobert at unm.edu> wrote:

> I can't say that it is true, but (sane food hearsay is fun)...
>
> It is said that the Irish did indeed tend more toward bacon or ham and
> cabbage in Ireland (trad here, not period)
>
> When they came to the US, they usually landed in New York, and the area
> was rich with a culture that used non-piggy meats, so the Irish adapted to
> the corned beef rather than the accustomed ham or bacon.
>
> Yeah, I know... and St. Paddy drove the snakes out of Ireland as well. ;)
>  and "Gangs of New York" is way up there with "The Quiet Man" for St.
> Patrick's Day viewing.
>
> Kathleen Roberts
>
>
>
> Supervisor, Student Records
>
> Division of Enrollment Management
>
> University of New Mexico
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> "Being Irish, he had an abiding sense of tragedy, which sustained him
> through temporary periods of joy."  W.B. Yeats
>
>
>
> "The hand that rocks the ladle rules the world."  Nadia G.
>
> ________________________________________
> From: sca-cooks-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org [
> sca-cooks-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org] on behalf of Susan Lin [
> susanrlin at gmail.com]
> Sent: Friday, March 15, 2013 3:43 PM
> To: Cooks within the SCA
> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Irish food
>
> In honor of Pi day I did make a pie - blueberry/cherry.  I even have my pi
> plate (pi symbol in the middle and 3.14159... around the edge)
>
> For St. Patrick's Day I have a brisket pickling in the fridge.  I started
> with a whole brisket - cut off a chunk for the husband to smoke and then
> trimmed the rest and attacked it with 2 head of garlic and spiced brine.
>  We'll cooking it up for Sunday with potatoes cabbage and soda bread (our
> soda bread is made with both soda and powder but it's yummy) - no currant -
> I don't like cooked raisins (specifically I do not like burnt raisins).
>
> Shoshanah
>
> On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 9:22 AM, Chef Christy <chefchristy at kingstaste.com
> >wrote:
>
> > We made foods for an Irish Breakfast in cooking class yesterday.  Irish
> > Soda
> > Bread with Currants (one regular and one gluten-free), Colcannon, Sauteed
> > Mushroom Caps in Butter, Fried Eggs, and Breakfast Tea with Milk.  We
> > talked
> > a lot about Black Pudding and the kids kept trying to find someone to
> agree
> > to a blood sacrifice so we could try it out, but we got no takers ;)
> > If I had realized it was Pi Day yesterday we might have made pie instead,
> > but the breakfast foods were a big hit so a good time was had by all.
> > Christianna
> >
> >
> > In honor of St. Pat's, anyone want to talk about period Irish food?
> > Or modern food you plan to make for the day?
> >
> > Ranvaig
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sca-cooks mailing list
> > Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> > http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org
> _______________________________________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org
>

From StefanliRous at austin.rr.com  Fri Mar 15 16:18:13 2013
From: StefanliRous at austin.rr.com (Stefan li Rous)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2013 18:18:13 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] cheese scones
Message-ID: <C2646359-A851-43E7-9A4C-D8C97F171A91@austin.rr.com>

Cailte replied to me with:
<<< Sans puddings (i.e. white and black) due to budget.  I am working with the freezer this weekend. LOL!  When we were at the B and B in Ireland, he 'tasted" them, and I ate them.  He's pretty omniverous tho? >>>

Oh? I thought puddings were relatively cheap to make. Although admittedly, many items that used to be cheap and almost cast-offs, are now quite expensive because they are now the "in" thing. Skirt steak and chicken wings being good examples. Blood might be the same.

<<< Why not some soda bread for Mum's dinner?  Easy to make.  Or some scones?  With, of course (if available near you) Kerrygold Butter. >>>

Lol. Yes, after I wrote my message I got online and started looking at recipes. And cheese soup and cheese fondues are some items I'm considering. Also cheese scones.

Does Kerrygold Butter taste different from "regular" butter? My store has a lot of different butters. I don't remember whether this is one of them.

But many of the scone recipes have directions like "MIX first 4 ingredients in large bowl. Cut in butter with pastry blender or 2 knives until mixture resembles coarse crumbs. Stir in Cheddar."

What does that bit about cutting in the butter with pastry blender or 2 knives, mean? Why two knives instead of one? What is a pastry blender? Is that the thing with a handled and a series of parallel crescent shaped blades?

Is the whole idea to mix the ingredients but coarsely/crumbly?

Thanks,
   Stefan

--------
THLord Stefan li Rous    Barony of Bryn Gwlad    Kingdom of Ansteorra
   Mark S. Harris           Austin, Texas          StefanliRous at austin.rr.com
http://www.linkedin.com/in/marksharris
**** See Stefan's Florilegium files at:  http://www.florilegium.org ****







From susanrlin at gmail.com  Fri Mar 15 16:25:59 2013
From: susanrlin at gmail.com (Susan Lin)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2013 17:25:59 -0600
Subject: [Sca-cooks] cheese scones
In-Reply-To: <C2646359-A851-43E7-9A4C-D8C97F171A91@austin.rr.com>
References: <C2646359-A851-43E7-9A4C-D8C97F171A91@austin.rr.com>
Message-ID: <CAHkO8TQKRFnCxnU4UTyOqD10pka-SbtM3JtL2y8wZnFdXWweEw@mail.gmail.com>

Irish or European butters have more butter fat than American butter and are
therefore more 'buttery'.

Cutting in the butter with two knives is an old thing - that's how my
grandmother used to do it. You use an action like shredding meat - using
the two knives to cross together to cut the butter - one knife would take
for freaking ever.  Yes, you can use a pastry blender - that's the crescent
shaped thing.  Or, a "granny fork" which is a big fork with tines with
space between them.  the object is to break the butter up and get each
little bit coated in flour without melting it or making it into a solid
mass (not until you add the liquid)

You can use your fingers but the reason that isn't recommended is that you
can melt the butter with your hot hands and then it will make a tougher
pastry.

You can even cut the butter in with a food processor - just use short
bursts.

Shoshanah

On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 5:18 PM, Stefan li Rous
<StefanliRous at austin.rr.com>wrote:

> Cailte replied to me with:
> <<< Sans puddings (i.e. white and black) due to budget.  I am working with
> the freezer this weekend. LOL!  When we were at the B and B in Ireland, he
> 'tasted" them, and I ate them.  He's pretty omniverous tho? >>>
>
> Oh? I thought puddings were relatively cheap to make. Although admittedly,
> many items that used to be cheap and almost cast-offs, are now quite
> expensive because they are now the "in" thing. Skirt steak and chicken
> wings being good examples. Blood might be the same.
>
> <<< Why not some soda bread for Mum's dinner?  Easy to make.  Or some
> scones?  With, of course (if available near you) Kerrygold Butter. >>>
>
> Lol. Yes, after I wrote my message I got online and started looking at
> recipes. And cheese soup and cheese fondues are some items I'm considering.
> Also cheese scones.
>
> Does Kerrygold Butter taste different from "regular" butter? My store has
> a lot of different butters. I don't remember whether this is one of them.
>
> But many of the scone recipes have directions like "MIX first 4
> ingredients in large bowl. Cut in butter with pastry blender or 2 knives
> until mixture resembles coarse crumbs. Stir in Cheddar."
>
> What does that bit about cutting in the butter with pastry blender or 2
> knives, mean? Why two knives instead of one? What is a pastry blender? Is
> that the thing with a handled and a series of parallel crescent shaped
> blades?
>
> Is the whole idea to mix the ingredients but coarsely/crumbly?
>
> Thanks,
>    Stefan
>
> --------
> THLord Stefan li Rous    Barony of Bryn Gwlad    Kingdom of Ansteorra
>    Mark S. Harris           Austin, Texas
> StefanliRous at austin.rr.com
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/marksharris
> **** See Stefan's Florilegium files at:  http://www.florilegium.org ****
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org
>

From dephelps at embarqmail.com  Fri Mar 15 16:49:15 2013
From: dephelps at embarqmail.com (Daniel And elizabeth phelps)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2013 19:49:15 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Short Irish Tales
In-Reply-To: <CAHkO8TQEAEn7wjrOkr_zbvT4b4tZVpd5devjvjXup7wmLD9G8w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1444397252.160247.1363391355475.JavaMail.root@md11.embarq.synacor.com>

Yes and an old Irishman said to me,"Son I don't know if the Good Lord is an Englishman but I'm damned sure about the Devil." That and when St. Patty drove the snakes out of Ireland them snakes, thus driven, dove into the Irish Sea, swam across and came out, thus baptized, the first Englishmen.  

Daniel

----- Original Message -----
OOOH The Quiet Man - I love that movie.

Shoshanah

On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 3:51 PM, Kathleen Roberts <karobert at unm.edu> wrote:

> I can't say that it is true, but (sane food hearsay is fun)...
>
> It is said that the Irish did indeed tend more toward bacon or ham and
> cabbage in Ireland (trad here, not period)
>
> When they came to the US, they usually landed in New York, and the area
> was rich with a culture that used non-piggy meats, so the Irish adapted to
> the corned beef rather than the accustomed ham or bacon.
>
> Yeah, I know... and St. Paddy drove the snakes out of Ireland as well. ;)
>  and "Gangs of New York" is way up there with "The Quiet Man" for St.
> Patrick's Day viewing.
>
> Kathleen Roberts
>
>
>
> Supervisor, Student Records
>
> Division of Enrollment Management
>
> University of New Mexico
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> "Being Irish, he had an abiding sense of tragedy, which sustained him
> through temporary periods of joy."  W.B. Yeats
>
>
>
> "The hand that rocks the ladle rules the world."  Nadia G.
>
> ________________________________________
> From: sca-cooks-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org [
> sca-cooks-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org] on behalf of Susan Lin [
> susanrlin at gmail.com]
> Sent: Friday, March 15, 2013 3:43 PM
> To: Cooks within the SCA
> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Irish food
>
> In honor of Pi day I did make a pie - blueberry/cherry.  I even have my pi
> plate (pi symbol in the middle and 3.14159... around the edge)
>
> For St. Patrick's Day I have a brisket pickling in the fridge.  I started
> with a whole brisket - cut off a chunk for the husband to smoke and then
> trimmed the rest and attacked it with 2 head of garlic and spiced brine.
>  We'll cooking it up for Sunday with potatoes cabbage and soda bread (our
> soda bread is made with both soda and powder but it's yummy) - no currant -
> I don't like cooked raisins (specifically I do not like burnt raisins).
>
> Shoshanah
>
> On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 9:22 AM, Chef Christy <chefchristy at kingstaste.com
> >wrote:
>
> > We made foods for an Irish Breakfast in cooking class yesterday.  Irish
> > Soda
> > Bread with Currants (one regular and one gluten-free), Colcannon, Sauteed
> > Mushroom Caps in Butter, Fried Eggs, and Breakfast Tea with Milk.  We
> > talked
> > a lot about Black Pudding and the kids kept trying to find someone to
> agree
> > to a blood sacrifice so we could try it out, but we got no takers ;)
> > If I had realized it was Pi Day yesterday we might have made pie instead,
> > but the breakfast foods were a big hit so a good time was had by all.
> > Christianna
> >
> >
> > In honor of St. Pat's, anyone want to talk about period Irish food?
> > Or modern food you plan to make for the day?
> >
> > Ranvaig
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sca-cooks mailing list
> > Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> > http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org
> _______________________________________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org
>
_______________________________________________
Sca-cooks mailing list
Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org

From online2much at cox.net  Fri Mar 15 19:54:43 2013
From: online2much at cox.net (Terri Morgan)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2013 22:54:43 -0400
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Short Irish Tales
In-Reply-To: <1444397252.160247.1363391355475.JavaMail.root@md11.embarq.synacor.com>
References: <CAHkO8TQEAEn7wjrOkr_zbvT4b4tZVpd5devjvjXup7wmLD9G8w@mail.gmail.com>
	<1444397252.160247.1363391355475.JavaMail.root@md11.embarq.synacor.com>
Message-ID: <002501ce21f1$9c8eeb10$d5acc130$@cox.net>

> That and when St. Patty drove the snakes out of Ireland
> them snakes, thus driven, dove into the Irish Sea, swam
> across and came out, thus baptized, the first Englishmen.  
> Daniel

In a dispute with Scotland over ownership of Rathlin Island in 1617, the
Irish maintained in English court that since St. Patrick had banished all
snakes from Ireland, and there were no snakes on Rathlin Island, it followed
that Rathlin was a part of Ireland. The Irish won their case.



Hrothny


From chefchristy at kingstaste.com  Fri Mar 15 20:00:18 2013
From: chefchristy at kingstaste.com (Chef Christy)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2013 23:00:18 -0400
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Irish food
In-Reply-To: <54A2B7A3-62E4-4DBC-9DAA-19C4A34C0A98@austin.rr.com>
References: <54A2B7A3-62E4-4DBC-9DAA-19C4A34C0A98@austin.rr.com>
Message-ID: <000001ce21f2$64734040$4101a8c0@TROUBADOR>

Stefan, 
Colcannon is a dish that contains mashed potatoes and shredded cooked
cabbage.  My version also includes sliced green onions and chopped parsley.
Nice and green.  Very tasty with some cultured butter, or Kerry Gold!
Yum.  And I still have leftovers of that.  :)
Breakfast tea is a blend of black teas, traditionally drunk with milk.
Here's a wiki on it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_breakfast_tea
Christianna

-----Original Message-----
From: sca-cooks-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org
[mailto:sca-cooks-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org] On Behalf Of Stefan li Rous
Sent: Friday, March 15, 2013 6:25 PM
To: SCA-Cooks maillist SCA-Cooks
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Irish food

<<< In honor of St. Pat's, anyone want to talk about period Irish food?
Or modern food you plan to make for the day?

Ranvaig >>>

Christianna mentioned: "Colcannon".

What is this?

And she mentioned "Breakfast Tea with Milk"

What about this tea makes it "breakfast" tea?



From lilinah at earthlink.net  Fri Mar 15 20:14:38 2013
From: lilinah at earthlink.net (lilinah at earthlink.net)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2013 20:14:38 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] PLEASE EDIT POSTS!
Message-ID: <21845624.1363403678413.JavaMail.root@elwamui-karabash.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Cheese louise, guys and guyettes.

I'm sure there are ways to cut off all the extraneous footers, all the redundantly repeated messages and to just send the one you are responding to.

PLEASE!

Friends don't let friends top post without editing!

Signed:
Cranky pants

From chimene at ravensgard.org  Fri Mar 15 21:02:09 2013
From: chimene at ravensgard.org (Patricia Dunham)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2013 21:02:09 -0700
Subject: [Sca-cooks] cheese scones
In-Reply-To: <CAHkO8TQKRFnCxnU4UTyOqD10pka-SbtM3JtL2y8wZnFdXWweEw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <C2646359-A851-43E7-9A4C-D8C97F171A91@austin.rr.com>
	<CAHkO8TQKRFnCxnU4UTyOqD10pka-SbtM3JtL2y8wZnFdXWweEw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C6ADA00D-3B0B-466E-B623-5E9A3FAA7835@ravensgard.org>

umm, FWIW, as I learned it, I think you're trying to get the flour buttered (not the butter floured), without handling (aka "working") the flour enough to develop any gluten (or, the less gluten that gets developed, the better)

I agree with Shoshanah that the reason you do the combining with tools, is because you don't want warm hands melting the butter. but as I understand it, toughness comes from overworking flour, not melting butter.

IF you have really cold hands, OR a really "light touch" (if you have this, you know it; and if you know someone who has it, they MAY be able to teach you), and a cold kitchen and bowl, you can sometimes "crumble" successfully, by hand. 

My DH is the one in this house who makes the pie dough and shortbread, 8-)  He has been VERY good at this since he was VERY little (7yo). He says that everything he knows about pastry he figured out for himself (even in the early days). One of his tricks is that he always washes his hands before he sticks them into something (!), and that this always cools his hands, even if he's washed with warm water. He describes the "light hands" thing as being "mixing without kneading".  My dear farm grandma also did tons of piecrust, shortbread and all sorts of baking, but I didn't track on much of it, besides the breadmaking.

chimene


On Mar 15, 2013, at 4:25 PM, Susan Lin wrote:

> ,,,  the object is to break the butter up and get each
> little bit coated in flour without melting it or making it into a solid
> mass (not until you add the liquid)


From JIMCHEVAL at aol.com  Fri Mar 15 22:04:01 2013
From: JIMCHEVAL at aol.com (JIMCHEVAL at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2013 01:04:01 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Irish food
Message-ID: <1d84d.64068d18.3e755741@aol.com>

And for the medieval side....
 
Right off, St. Pat himself was a Briton, so there's a whole other path to  
follow there. Otherwise...
 
We know something about what Irish monks ate - they founded several  
monasteries in Gaul, along with rules defining meals. One modern French writer  
sums the latter up as "vegetables with a little peas and beans, flour mixed 
with  water, a small slice of bread." All fairly common fare for monks in Gaul.
 
The same author adds this delightful note: "The use of certain fermented  
drinks was not absolutely forbidden."
 
_http://www.persee.fr/web/revues/home/prescript/article/abpo_0003-391x_1932_
num_40_4_1709?_Prescripts_Search_tabs1=standard_ 
(http://www.persee.fr/web/revues/home/prescript/article/abpo_0003-391x_1932_num_40_4_1709?_Prescripts_S
earch_tabs1=standard) &
 
 
I know of no contemporary accounts of the early Irish, but I would guess  
they were much like the early Scots (both essentially lived in the 
wilderness).  Froissart says that the latter when hunting would drink river water and 
cook  animals in their own skins (a technique it seems used in several parts 
of the  world). The only food they carried with them was oatmeal and a hot 
stone. Having  eaten their "half-cooked" meat, they would then mix some 
oatmeal with water and  cook the resulting thin paste on a stone (the bannock in 
its most primitive  form).
 
_http://books.google.com/books?id=37SRAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA51&dq=bread+stone++inaut
hor:froissart&hl=en&sa=X&ei=MPFDUe2yMIr-rQG6tIGQDw&ved=0CDgQ6AEwAA#v=onepage
&q=bread%20stone%20%20inauthor%3Afroissart&f=false_ 
(http://books.google.com/books?id=37SRAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA51&dq=bread+stone++inauthor:froissart&hl=en&sa=X
&ei=MPFDUe2yMIr-rQG6tIGQDw&ved=0CDgQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=bread%20stone%20%20in
author:froissart&f=false) 
 
A later writer says they were still eating freshly killed game raw, but not 
 if (like some Germans in Tacitus' time) they first pounded the meat to 
remove  all the blood (and not incidentally tenderize it).
 
The Irish certainly ate beef - one of their famous tales is of a cattle  
raid. In one classic epic, both cattle (and their milk) and roast pigs are  
mentioned. Though it is sometimes questioned as classical bias, a commonplace 
of  descriptions of all the early forest-dwelling groups (Germans, Gauls, 
Irish,  etc) was that they lived largely on meat and dairy.
 
One nineteenth writer suggested that some Irish heated stones by a stream  
and then boiled the water in a trough by throwing them thus boiling the  
meat.
 
_http://books.google.com/books?id=uGIWAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA242-IA1&dq=people+having
+lighted+a+great+fire,+the+stones,+made+red-hot+thereby&hl=en&sa=X&ei=h_RDUa
CAK8K6yQH0pIHgDw&ved=0CEQQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q&f=false_ 
(http://books.google.com/books?id=uGIWAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA242-IA1&dq=people+having+lighted+a+great+fire,
+the+stones,+made+red-hot+thereby&hl=en&sa=X&ei=h_RDUaCAK8K6yQH0pIHgDw&ved=0
CEQQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q&f=false) 
 

The same writer describes food found at the site of an Irish lake  dwelling:
 
"The food on which the lake dweller existed appears to have been plenteous: 
 fishing implements are found in abundance ; he slew cattle?wild as well as 
 domesticated?pigs and deer; and, in one refuse-heap, traces of megaceros 
were  discovered. Immense quantities of carbonized vegetable remains were 
found on a  crannog site in Meath. The barley was of the same small size as is 
found in  Swiss lacustrine sites; grains of oats not larger than hayseed, 
hazel- and  oak-nuts, sloes, and walnutshells were found at Lough Nahinch, and 
cherry-stones  at Ballinlough."
 
_http://books.google.com/books?id=uGIWAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA231&dq=inauthor:martin+T
he+food+on+which+the+lake+dweller+existed+appears+to+have+been+plenteous:+fi
shing+implements+are+found+in+abundance+;+he+s
lew+cattle&hl=en&sa=X&ei=XPVDUaHKJbKEygGGlYCgCQ&ved=0CDAQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false_ 
(http://books.google.com/books?id=uGIWAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA231&dq=inauthor:martin+The+food+on+which+the+
lake+dweller+existed+appears+to+have+been+plenteous:+fishing+implements+are+
found+in+abundance+;+he+slew+cattle&hl=en&sa=X&ei=XPVDUaHKJbKEygGGlYCgCQ&ved
=0CDAQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false) 
 
 
Otherwise, several modern works look at the Irish medieval diet. This book  
has a whole chapter on food:
The Archaeology of Early Medieval Ireland By  Nancy Edwards
_http://books.google.com/books?id=m5O0Z7UjgwoC&pg=PA49&dq=inauthor:%22Nancy+
Edwards%22+intitle:Ireland+food+and+farming&hl=en&sa=X&ei=ofZDUdaUBYrgyQG9i4
CwDw&ved=0CDYQ6AEwAA_ 
(http://books.google.com/books?id=m5O0Z7UjgwoC&pg=PA49&dq=inauthor:"Nancy+Edwards"+intitle:Ireland+food+and+farming&hl=en&sa=X&ei=
ofZDUdaUBYrgyQG9i4CwDw&ved=0CDYQ6AEwAA) 
 
The details are towards the end.
 
Two Celtic encyclopedias have pages on the same subject:
 
_http://books.google.com/books?id=kVslRbrSH7QC&pg=PA219&dq=Irish+medieval+fo
od+seaweed&hl=en&sa=X&ei=-fZDUYXzGsGnqgGI8YGQCQ&ved=0CDYQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=
Irish%20medieval%20food%20seaweed&f=false_ 
(http://books.google.com/books?id=kVslRbrSH7QC&pg=PA219&dq=Irish+medieval+food+seaweed&hl=en&sa=X&ei=-fZDUYXz
GsGnqgGI8YGQCQ&ved=0CDYQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=Irish%20medieval%20food%20seaweed
&f=false) 
 
_http://books.google.com/books?id=f899xH_quaMC&pg=PA764&dq=medieval+food+int
itle:celtic&hl=en&sa=X&ei=8vdDUbSMFsi9rQGx4YG4BA&ved=0CDAQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q
=medieval%20food%20intitle%3Aceltic&f=false_ 
(http://books.google.com/books?id=f899xH_quaMC&pg=PA764&dq=medieval+food+intitle:celtic&hl=en&sa=X&ei=8vdDU
bSMFsi9rQGx4YG4BA&ved=0CDAQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=medieval%20food%20intitle:celt
ic&f=false) 
 
As you might expect, grain and dairy played a large part; some at least ate 
 beef and pork. But if you want something truly unique to the isle, you 
might try  some cockles with dulse, a seaweed still eaten in Scotland at least.
 
There is also this 11th century Middle Irish poem, painting an image of  
what was apparently considered plenty:
 
"The door of dried meat, 
The threshold of dry bread,
The walls of  soft cheese,
Smooth pillars of old cheese,
And juicy bacon joists
Are  laid across each other
White posts of real curds,
Supported the  house.
A well of wine just behind,
Rivers of beer and bragget."
 

Certainly then beef was eaten - though probably not corned -, though  pork 
may indeed have been more available to the Irish in later centuries. And,  
of course, no potatoes....
 
Still modern revelers seeking medieval authenticity can take heart in one  
respect:  "The use of certain fermented drinks was not absolutely  
forbidden."
 
 
Jim  Chevallier
www.chezjim.com

Newly translated from Pierre Jean-Baptiste  Le Grand d'Aussy:
Eggs, Cheese and Butter in Old Regime France  

 
In a message dated 3/15/2013 12:37:20 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
ranvaig at columbus.rr.com writes:

In honor  of St. Pat's, anyone want to talk about period Irish  food?


From johnnae at mac.com  Sat Mar 16 07:44:13 2013
From: johnnae at mac.com (Johnna Holloway)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2013 10:44:13 -0400
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Irish food
In-Reply-To: <p06010204cd687f8e9e20@[10.0.1.112]>
References: <p06010204cd687f8e9e20@[10.0.1.112]>
Message-ID: <B24156CC-280F-4103-813C-E5548B945483@mac.com>

In terms of critical stuff, I am at work on the next in the series of bibliographies which will feature Ireland, Scotland, and Wales but it's not done yet. 

As to what is being eaten, well Patrick and I split the sweet Irish soda bread with currants. It's baked by the one artisan baker, so
buying the loaf from him supports that bakery and his efforts. Also had a loaf of Zingerman's Brown Soda Bread which is advertised  as being made with "whole wheat flour, white wheat flour, oatmeal, soured milk, baking soda, and some sea salt. We?ve sourced the whole wheat flour and oatmeal from the Creedon family who make our incredible Irish stone ground oatmeal. It?s critical to the flavor and texture of the bread because Irish wheat is much, much softer than what we?re used to using over here." It reminds me of bread we ate in up in Galway when we were in Ireland. Very good when it is fresh. http://www.zingermans.com/Product.aspx?ProductID=B-ISB

Haven't made the corned beef yet. James was gone, so I'll do one in the next week or so. 

Johnnae

 
On Mar 15, 2013, at 3:37 AM, Sharon Palmer wrote:

> In honor of St. Pat's, anyone want to talk about period Irish food?
> Or modern food you plan to make for the day?
> 
> Ranvaig

From johnnae at mac.com  Sat Mar 16 08:08:51 2013
From: johnnae at mac.com (Johnna Holloway)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2013 11:08:51 -0400
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Irish Food
Message-ID: <F38D87CF-8385-4B78-B1FF-5B9C6499DF9E@mac.com>

Saveur's post for today offered their take on "Authentic Irish Recipes
For St. Patrick's Day or for any other day, we love these dishes from the Emerald Isle, from salmon with cabbage and cider vinegar to colcannon and classic puddings."

Looks to be a very good selection.  Plus it's free.             

http://tinyurl.com/bkz9ugv

Johnnae

From susanne.mayer5 at chello.at  Sat Mar 16 08:48:33 2013
From: susanne.mayer5 at chello.at (Susanne Mayer)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2013 16:48:33 +0100
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Irish food
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1363374322.28230.sca-cooks-ansteorra.org@lists.ansteorra.org>
References: <mailman.1.1363374322.28230.sca-cooks-ansteorra.org@lists.ansteorra.org>
Message-ID: <FE6AF65B7FBB4BB5B1E8EA55AB05298B@SusiPC>

Irish Stew modern version (with potatoes) is on the stove top. BUT, as I had 
some Muflon (Ovis aries orientalis) (wild sheep) in the freezer, it's a wild 
seep stew. Guinness  for drink.
Green Oat muffins with orange whiskey marmelade.

Katharina

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2013 03:37:15 -0400
From: Sharon Palmer <ranvaig at columbus.rr.com>
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Irish food
Message-ID: <p06010204cd687f8e9e20@[10.0.1.112]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"

In honor of St. Pat's, anyone want to talk about period Irish food?
Or modern food you plan to make for the day?

Ranvaig



From karobert at unm.edu  Sat Mar 16 10:51:05 2013
From: karobert at unm.edu (Kathleen Roberts)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2013 17:51:05 +0000
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Irish food
In-Reply-To: <1d84d.64068d18.3e755741@aol.com>
References: <1d84d.64068d18.3e755741@aol.com>
Message-ID: <AF2F1DA7964D6344A6B72C61AC9AA9530DAB300F@CH1PRD0711MB432.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>

ah, it is nice to see someone else knows "The Vision of Mac Conglinne" (sp... don't have my paperwork here).
it gives a wonderful idea of the foods available, although it is again open to translation and rewriting.

speaking of cattle.... they had a purpose in the winter that made them better than meat.  the cattle could be carefully bled, and the blood used in puddings, thus giving a food that could 'keep on giving'.  not to mention the importance of milk for cheese, one of the very important staples of monastery and farm.

interesting monastic point... some monks at certain holidays could not eat cheese because the rennet came from the stomach of an animal.  interesting point, considering  how 'liberal interpretation' of food could actually get you meat on the table on fast days. ;)

i have chased period irish food for years, and finally found a fair amount of documentation on what people ate and how it was cooked from tales, monastic records and laws.  quite interesting stuff.

if you are interested in a really unique dish, try making a stirabout with oats (steel cut is good), broth, butter and onions (onions cooked before inclusion).   cook until done, and all a bit of fresh herb and cream.  really, really good.   quite impressed a number of people who sampled it at an Early Irish Food class i gave in the barony.

I still want to do a perfect period Irish feast one day... better hurry, ain't getting any younger. LOL!

Cailte

Kathleen Roberts

Supervisor, Student Records

Division of Enrollment Management

University of New Mexico

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Being Irish, he had an abiding sense of tragedy, which sustained him through temporary periods of joy."  W.B. Yeats



"The hand that rocks the ladle rules the world."  Nadia G.

________________________________________
From: sca-cooks-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org [sca-cooks-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org] on behalf of JIMCHEVAL at aol.com [JIMCHEVAL at aol.com]
Sent: Friday, March 15, 2013 11:04 PM
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Irish food


From karobert at unm.edu  Sat Mar 16 10:52:21 2013
From: karobert at unm.edu (Kathleen Roberts)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2013 17:52:21 +0000
Subject: [Sca-cooks] cheese scones
In-Reply-To: <CAHkO8TQKRFnCxnU4UTyOqD10pka-SbtM3JtL2y8wZnFdXWweEw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <C2646359-A851-43E7-9A4C-D8C97F171A91@austin.rr.com>,
	<CAHkO8TQKRFnCxnU4UTyOqD10pka-SbtM3JtL2y8wZnFdXWweEw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AF2F1DA7964D6344A6B72C61AC9AA9530DAB3023@CH1PRD0711MB432.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>

I would recommend using a good domestic butter for the scones, and slathering them with the good Kerrygold when eating. 

Cailte

Kathleen Roberts

Supervisor, Student Records

Division of Enrollment Management

University of New Mexico

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Being Irish, he had an abiding sense of tragedy, which sustained him through temporary periods of joy."  W.B. Yeats



"The hand that rocks the ladle rules the world."  Nadia G.

________________________________________
From: sca-cooks-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org [sca-cooks-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org] on behalf of Susan Lin [susanrlin at gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, March 15, 2013 5:25 PM
To: Cooks within the SCA
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] cheese scones

Irish or European butters have more butter fat than American butter and are
therefore more 'buttery'.

Cutting in the butter with two knives is an old thing - that's how my
grandmother used to do it. You use an action like shredding meat - using
the two knives to cross together to cut the butter - one knife would take
for freaking ever.  Yes, you can use a pastry blender - that's the crescent
shaped thing.  Or, a "granny fork" which is a big fork with tines with
space between them.  the object is to break the butter up and get each
little bit coated in flour without melting it or making it into a solid
mass (not until you add the liquid)

You can use your fingers but the reason that isn't recommended is that you
can melt the butter with your hot hands and then it will make a tougher
pastry.

You can even cut the butter in with a food processor - just use short
bursts.

Shoshanah

On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 5:18 PM, Stefan li Rous
<StefanliRous at austin.rr.com>wrote:

> Cailte replied to me with:
> <<< Sans puddings (i.e. white and black) due to budget.  I am working with
> the freezer this weekend. LOL!  When we were at the B and B in Ireland, he
> 'tasted" them, and I ate them.  He's pretty omniverous tho? >>>
>
> Oh? I thought puddings were relatively cheap to make. Although admittedly,
> many items that used to be cheap and almost cast-offs, are now quite
> expensive because they are now the "in" thing. Skirt steak and chicken
> wings being good examples. Blood might be the same.
>
> <<< Why not some soda bread for Mum's dinner?  Easy to make.  Or some
> scones?  With, of course (if available near you) Kerrygold Butter. >>>
>
> Lol. Yes, after I wrote my message I got online and started looking at
> recipes. And cheese soup and cheese fondues are some items I'm considering.
> Also cheese scones.
>
> Does Kerrygold Butter taste different from "regular" butter? My store has
> a lot of different butters. I don't remember whether this is one of them.
>
> But many of the scone recipes have directions like "MIX first 4
> ingredients in large bowl. Cut in butter with pastry blender or 2 knives
> until mixture resembles coarse crumbs. Stir in Cheddar."
>
> What does that bit about cutting in the butter with pastry blender or 2
> knives, mean? Why two knives instead of one? What is a pastry blender? Is
> that the thing with a handled and a series of parallel crescent shaped
> blades?
>
> Is the whole idea to mix the ingredients but coarsely/crumbly?
>
> Thanks,
>    Stefan
>
> --------
> THLord Stefan li Rous    Barony of Bryn Gwlad    Kingdom of Ansteorra
>    Mark S. Harris           Austin, Texas
> StefanliRous at austin.rr.com
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/marksharris
> **** See Stefan's Florilegium files at:  http://www.florilegium.org ****
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org
>
_______________________________________________
Sca-cooks mailing list
Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org



From caer_mab at yahoo.com  Sat Mar 16 11:10:28 2013
From: caer_mab at yahoo.com (Arianwen ferch Arthur)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2013 11:10:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] cattle
In-Reply-To: <mailman.174288.1363456271.34820.sca-cooks-ansteorra.org@lists.ansteorra.org>
Message-ID: <1363457428.65754.YahooMailClassic@web164903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

there was a mention of cattle as proof that beef was availaboe...Now I know that we consider cattle to be beef, but I also remember that cattle refered to the horses...

that conjures an interesting idea,? when did cattle become beef/dairy animals etc.

Anyone know more detail?

Arianwen ferch Arthur

"Outside of a dog a book is man's best friend. And inside of a dog it's too dark to read." G. Marx************************

From chefchristy at kingstaste.com  Sat Mar 16 15:26:24 2013
From: chefchristy at kingstaste.com (Chef Christy)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2013 18:26:24 -0400
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Culinary Historians on Linkedin
Message-ID: <004f01ce2295$4c1b4490$4101a8c0@TROUBADOR>

Hi all, 

In toodling around on Linkedin I discovered that there were no groups for
food historians at all, so I created one.  I want to aim the discussions at
times when food history is relevant to your work, whether as a full-blown
reenactor at an historic site or simply a sales presentation where the
history of your product is shown to be relevant.  

If you are on Linkedin and would like to join, send me a request.  The
group's name is Culinary Historians, or you can send a message to me there
at: Christine Seelye-King. 

This is not an SCA time period-only group, so topics could range from the
introduction of Birdseye frozen vegetables in the 1920's to historic tomato
seedlings.  

Hope to see some of you there!

Christiannna


From JIMCHEVAL at aol.com  Sat Mar 16 15:54:14 2013
From: JIMCHEVAL at aol.com (JIMCHEVAL at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2013 18:54:14 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Culinary Historians on Linkedin
Message-ID: <1b26b.55a096f3.3e765216@aol.com>

I believe there's some crossover between this list and the Association for  
the Study of Food and Society, but for anyone who's not aware of it, the 
ASFS  maintains a Facebook page with similar parameters:

_https://www.facebook.com/groups/9531416060/_ 
(https://www.facebook.com/groups/9531416060/) 

If  you're really hard-core, you can always join the society, which 
entitles you to  sign up for their mailing list, possibly more specialized, though 
it may also be  more about the group's business than food history per se.
 
Speaking of crossover, anyone whose interest in our period extends to the  
medical might want to know about Monica Green's list on medieval  medicine:

"To post to the list, send messages to _MEDMED-L at ASU.EDU_ 
(mailto:MEDMED-L at ASU.EDU)  To manage your subscriber  account, access the Archives, or to 
unsubscribe, go to _http://lists.asu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=MEDMED-L_ 
(http://lists.asu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A0=MEDMED-L) "

It's a  very focused list (not much off-topic chat) and many of the members 
are expert  in some pretty arcane corners of the subject, but given how 
much food and  medicine intertwined (intertwone?) in our era, it might be just 
what some  subscribers here are looking for. And you can always browse the 
archives for an  idea of the list's general approach.
 
Jim  Chevallier
www.chezjim.com

Newly translated from Pierre Jean-Baptiste  Le Grand d'Aussy:
Eggs, Cheese and Butter in Old Regime France  

 
In a message dated 3/16/2013 3:26:32 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
chefchristy at kingstaste.com writes:

Hi all,  

In toodling around on Linkedin I discovered that there were no groups  for
food historians at all, so I created one.  I want to aim the  discussions at
times when food history is relevant to your work, whether as  a full-blown
reenactor at an historic site or simply a sales presentation  where the
history of your product is shown to be relevant.  


From chimene at ravensgard.org  Sat Mar 16 17:16:03 2013
From: chimene at ravensgard.org (Patricia Dunham)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2013 17:16:03 -0700
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Help with Chafing Dish?
Message-ID: <CF60DA62-5BBA-415C-9AFB-487BDB179828@ravensgard.org>

We found a lovely old chafing dish at a second-hand, and thought of pot-lucks without electricity, so decided to get it, even if it does look pretty 18/19thC, rather than earlier... 

BUT!!!  Anybody have any idea where we might find a heating element that is 2 & 5/16ths inches diameter? OF COURSE, that's why the thing was at the 2d hand -- no heating element ("candle" for under the hot-water compartment, which fits quite tightly under the food-containing dish). It would probably have to be an alcohol burner, but if it would even hold a votive candle, that would be something...

We just thought we'd finally found one today, but it was 2 & 5/8ths, so no go. Well, unless DH wants to make the hole we've got larger, 8-(  He could do it, but...  We may HAVE to do it anyway, evetually, because modern small-size sterno cans are 2 & 3/8's !!! a 16th too big, fer pete sake!

Any ideas gratefully received! 
TIA
chimene

From johnnae at mac.com  Sat Mar 16 18:19:44 2013
From: johnnae at mac.com (Johnna Holloway)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2013 21:19:44 -0400
Subject: [Sca-cooks] cattle
In-Reply-To: <1363457428.65754.YahooMailClassic@web164903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <1363457428.65754.YahooMailClassic@web164903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <C9C9A0B3-D3FF-4D0B-B6A5-8BFC71ADBE93@mac.com>

OED goes into the Etymology of course
:  Middle English catel , < Old Northern French catel (= central Old French chatel , Proven?al captal , capdal ) < late Latin capt?le , Latin capit?le , neuter of the adjective capit?lis head-, principal,  used subst. in medi?val times in the sense ?principal sum of money, capital, wealth, property?; compare modern English  = stock in trade. Thus Papias has ?capitale , caput pecuni?, capitis summa?, the Catholicon ?capitale , pecunia?. 

Under the feudal system the application was confined to movable property or wealth, as being the only ?personal? property, and in English it was more and more identified with ?beast held in possession, live stock?, which was almost the only use after 1500, exc. in the technical phrase ?goods and catells (cattals)? which survived till the 17th cent. In legal Anglo-Norman, the Norman catel was superseded at an early period by the Parisian chatel ; this continued to be used in the earlier and wider sense (subject however to legal definition), and has in modern times passed into a certain current use as chattel n, so that the phrase just cited is now also since 16th cent. ?goods and chattels?. 

Down to 1500 the typical spelling was catel ; in the 16th cent. this became cattel , cattell ; only since 1600, and chiefly since 1700, spelt cattle . As this spelling is never found in earlier use, and, hence, never in the earlier sense, it would be possible to treat this sense as a separate word Catel , property; but on the other hand the modern sense has all the forms catel , cattel(l , cattle , according to date, and the history is better elucidated by treating the word as a historical whole. Chattel n. , however, as a distinct modern form and sense, is dealt with in its own place. 

The first definition is: Property, article of property, chattel. Obs. (Forms catel, cattel(l.)

II. live stock. (Forms catel, cattel(l, cattle.)

 4.  a. A collective term for live animals held as property, or reared to serve as food, or for the sake of their milk, skin, wool, etc.The application of the term has varied greatly, according to the circumstances of time and place, and has included camels, horses, asses, mules, oxen, cows, calves, sheep, lambs, goats, swine, etc. The tendency in recent times has been to restrict the term to the bovine genus, but the wider meaning is still found locally, and in many combinations. As this sense was originally comprised under 1, distinct instances before 1500 are scarce.
b.  Extended to fowls, bees, etc. Obs. or arch.

c1420  Pallad. on Husb.   i. 1057   So made that lysardes may not ascende, Ne wicked worme this catell [bees] for to offende.

Finally we come to

c. Now usually confined to, or understood of, bovine animals.

1555   R. Eden tr. Peter Martyr of Angleria Decades of the New World  i. x. f. 49,   Neat or cattall, becoome of bygger stature.

So actually it could mean a number of animals including bees, fowl, swine, goats, horses, etc.

Johnnae

On Mar 16, 2013, at 2:10 PM, Arianwen ferch Arthur wrote:

> there was a mention of cattle as proof that beef was availaboe...Now I know that we consider cattle to be beef, but I also remember that cattle refered to the horses? that conjures an interesting idea,  when did cattle become beef/dairy animals etc.
> Anyone know more detail?
> 
> Arianwen ferch Arthur

From JIMCHEVAL at aol.com  Sat Mar 16 18:29:56 2013
From: JIMCHEVAL at aol.com (JIMCHEVAL at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2013 21:29:56 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] cattle
Message-ID: <1d7b4.3b4ca111.3e767694@aol.com>

Interesting stuff. I presume the word is related  to "chattel".

Just to be clear, in one case, the animals in question are  said to give 
milk, so I believe we're talking about beef. And the cattle raid of  Louth 
also appears to be about the familiar bovine:

"A multitude of  places, throughout Ireland, are named after cattle. 
Legends upon the subject of  "cow lore" are current amongst the peasantry; and 
stories relating to bulls,  cows, and calves are interwoven with Irish 
Fairy-mythology, and interest chiefly  from their topographical references. Several 
of the early Irish Saints?like the  Druids?were credited with the 
possession of magical cows. Cattle raids and  forays afford fruitful themes for early 
romances, the most celebrated production  being the Tain I", L'uailyne, or 
the cattle raid of Louth, the so called  Nibeluwjai Lied of Irish History. 
It has been remarked that even the  celebrebrated abduction of Dervorgil 
partakes, when examined by the light of  modern investigation, more of the 
nature of a cattle foray than a romance, or  love passage, between an Irish 
Princess aged 44 and a King in bis 62nd  year."
http://books.google.com/books?id=vRyBAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA127&dq=%22The+Cattle+Raid
%22+Louth&hl=en&sa=X&ei=9RtFUZOmFdC4qQG4loH4Cw&ved=0CDEQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%
22The%20Cattle%20Raid%22%20Louth&f=false

Jim  Chevallier
www.chezjim.com

Newly translated from Pierre Jean-Baptiste  Le Grand d'Aussy:
Eggs, Cheese and Butter in Old Regime France 

In a  message dated 3/16/2013 6:19:49 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, 
johnnae at mac.com  writes:
OED goes into the Etymology of course
:  Middle English catel  , < Old Northern French catel (= central Old 
French chatel , Proven?al captal  , capdal ) < late Latin capt?le , Latin capit?
le , neuter of the adjective  capit?lis head-, principal,  used subst. in 
medi?val times in the sense  ?principal sum of money, capital, wealth, property
?; compare modern  English  = stock in trade. Thus Papias has ?capitale , 
caput pecuni?,  capitis summa?, the Catholicon ?capitale , pecunia?.  


From t.d.decker at att.net  Sat Mar 16 19:07:25 2013
From: t.d.decker at att.net (Terry Decker)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2013 21:07:25 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] [Bulk] Re:  cattle
In-Reply-To: <1d7b4.3b4ca111.3e767694@aol.com>
References: <1d7b4.3b4ca111.3e767694@aol.com>
Message-ID: <F41B3BBB94D84E2D9CC8735A7F5B7B09@TerryPC>

That is T?in b? C?ailnge, the Cattle Raid of Cooley, a central tale of the 
R?ra?ocht or Ulster Cycle.  And Niebelungenlied, the grand Germanic myth 
cycle that gave us Waltharius and Wagner's Ring operas.

Bear

> "A multitude of  places, throughout Ireland, are named after cattle.
> Legends upon the subject of  "cow lore" are current amongst the peasantry; 
> and
> stories relating to bulls,  cows, and calves are interwoven with Irish
> Fairy-mythology, and interest chiefly  from their topographical 
> references. Several
> of the early Irish Saints?like the  Druids?were credited with the
> possession of magical cows. Cattle raids and  forays afford fruitful 
> themes for early
> romances, the most celebrated production  being the Tain I", L'uailyne, or
> the cattle raid of Louth, the so called  Nibeluwjai Lied of Irish History.
> It has been remarked that even the  celebrebrated abduction of Dervorgil
> partakes, when examined by the light of  modern investigation, more of the
> nature of a cattle foray than a romance, or  love passage, between an 
> Irish
> Princess aged 44 and a King in bis 62nd  year."
> http://books.google.com/books?id=vRyBAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA127&dq=%22The+Cattle+Raid
> %22+Louth&hl=en&sa=X&ei=9RtFUZOmFdC4qQG4loH4Cw&ved=0CDEQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%
> 22The%20Cattle%20Raid%22%20Louth&f=false
>
> Jim  Chevallier
> www.chezjim.com


From JIMCHEVAL at aol.com  Sat Mar 16 19:22:41 2013
From: JIMCHEVAL at aol.com (JIMCHEVAL at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2013 22:22:41 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] [Bulk] Re:  cattle
Message-ID: <1e21a.55a9f6dd.3e7682f1@aol.com>

Indeed. And for those who want to read further, the author makes links with 
 Indian myths as well.
 
Jim  Chevallier
www.chezjim.com

Newly translated from Pierre Jean-Baptiste  Le Grand d'Aussy:
Eggs, Cheese and Butter in Old Regime France  

 
In a message dated 3/16/2013 7:08:15 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
t.d.decker at att.net writes:

That is  T?in b? C?ailnge, the Cattle Raid of Cooley, a central tale of the 
 
R?ra?ocht or Ulster Cycle.  And Niebelungenlied, the grand Germanic  myth 
cycle that gave us Waltharius and Wagner's Ring  operas.



From susanrlin at gmail.com  Sat Mar 16 19:30:58 2013
From: susanrlin at gmail.com (Susan Lin)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2013 20:30:58 -0600
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Help with Chafing Dish?
In-Reply-To: <CF60DA62-5BBA-415C-9AFB-487BDB179828@ravensgard.org>
References: <CF60DA62-5BBA-415C-9AFB-487BDB179828@ravensgard.org>
Message-ID: <CAHkO8TS2mJap=MQLe8aHmueB8NY=uM_qphmYKujtUGtxoHqbbg@mail.gmail.com>

I think yo can still buy sterno in bulk and use a custom container to put
it in.

On Sat, Mar 16, 2013 at 6:16 PM, Patricia Dunham <chimene at ravensgard.org>wrote:

> We found a lovely old chafing dish at a second-hand, and thought of
> pot-lucks without electricity, so decided to get it, even if it does look
> pretty 18/19thC, rather than earlier...
>
> BUT!!!  Anybody have any idea where we might find a heating element that
> is 2 & 5/16ths inches diameter? OF COURSE, that's why the thing was at the
> 2d hand -- no heating element ("candle" for under the hot-water
> compartment, which fits quite tightly under the food-containing dish). It
> would probably have to be an alcohol burner, but if it would even hold a
> votive candle, that would be something...
>
> We just thought we'd finally found one today, but it was 2 & 5/8ths, so no
> go. Well, unless DH wants to make the hole we've got larger, 8-(  He could
> do it, but...  We may HAVE to do it anyway, evetually, because modern
> small-size sterno cans are 2 & 3/8's !!! a 16th too big, fer pete sake!
>
> Any ideas gratefully received!
> TIA
> chimene
> _______________________________________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org
>

From dephelps at embarqmail.com  Sun Mar 17 07:29:59 2013
From: dephelps at embarqmail.com (Daniel And elizabeth phelps)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2013 10:29:59 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Great Knife Score?
In-Reply-To: <1971612194.185320.1363530322405.JavaMail.root@md11.embarq.synacor.com>
Message-ID: <1631988734.185376.1363530599970.JavaMail.root@md11.embarq.synacor.com>

Yesterday at a rummage sale I scored a stainless steel Cross Professional Sabatier cleaver for $3 in near pristine condition. Can anyone tell me about such? I tried to find it on line and brought up one that seemed to match that sells for $99. It has a 7" blade. I've never owned or used a cleaver. Do people find them useful? 

Daniel 

From susanrlin at gmail.com  Sun Mar 17 09:12:28 2013
From: susanrlin at gmail.com (Susan Lin)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2013 10:12:28 -0600
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Great Knife Score?
In-Reply-To: <1631988734.185376.1363530599970.JavaMail.root@md11.embarq.synacor.com>
References: <1971612194.185320.1363530322405.JavaMail.root@md11.embarq.synacor.com>
	<1631988734.185376.1363530599970.JavaMail.root@md11.embarq.synacor.com>
Message-ID: <CAHkO8TTB=H3hZRNb7mPQwos3DR8FPWuzKu5j4ZnCvwVFK9UFXA@mail.gmail.com>

You can't pass up a deal like that.  I can't tell you about your clever but
I have owned one for many years.  I do not find it is the knife I go to
often.  Maybe because it doesn't live with my other knives. I use it for
hacking apart bones, squash and sometimes a small watermelon but that's
about it.   I have seen people very adept at using one and they use it
almost like a chef's knife.  I suppose if I practiced with it more I would
be more comfortable.  Enjoy your new find.

Shoshanah

On Sun, Mar 17, 2013 at 8:29 AM, Daniel And elizabeth phelps <
dephelps at embarqmail.com> wrote:

> Yesterday at a rummage sale I scored a stainless steel Cross Professional
> Sabatier cleaver for $3 in near pristine condition. Can anyone tell me
> about such? I tried to find it on line and brought up one that seemed to
> match that sells for $99. It has a 7" blade. I've never owned or used a
> cleaver. Do people find them useful?
>
> Daniel
> _______________________________________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org
>

From JIMCHEVAL at aol.com  Sun Mar 17 09:26:44 2013
From: JIMCHEVAL at aol.com (JIMCHEVAL at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2013 12:26:44 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Great Knife Score?
Message-ID: <10f75.4e765d7f.3e7748c4@aol.com>

Personally, if I owned anything quite that effective, I would have images  
of my wrists wondering where my hands went.

This said, I do own a full  set of knives (rather amusingly, since years as 
an impoverished musician have  left me using a steak knife for a host of 
unintended purposes, even though I  have the exact implement for each purpose 
hanging above my counter). I do use a  (no doubt much duller) cleaver for 
chopping vegetables sometimes.

The  advantage, if you've ever seen a really efficient chef use one, is the 
weight of  the blade, which allows you to build up a sequential rhythm so 
that you can  simply feed the food in question under the cleaver and almost 
industrially  produce a series of slices. Be sure you have a steady surface 
for this and be  aware that if clumsily done (my default method) it can lead 
to bits of food  flying around. But yes it does speed up things like 
chopping carrots,  considerably.
 
Jim  Chevallier
www.chezjim.com

Newly translated from Pierre Jean-Baptiste  Le Grand d'Aussy:
Eggs, Cheese and Butter in Old Regime France  

 
In a message dated 3/17/2013 9:12:33 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
susanrlin at gmail.com writes:

I have  seen people very adept at using one and they use it
almost like a chef's  knife.  I suppose if I practiced with it more I would
be more  comfortable. 


From kdp at tiac.net  Sun Mar 17 12:50:54 2013
From: kdp at tiac.net (kdp at tiac.net)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2013 15:50:54 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Peter Brears' Cooking...
Message-ID: <4022078.1363549854351.JavaMail.root@elwamui-muscovy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

The paperback is a new arrival at the Harvard Bookstore, so perhaps the hardcover was missed.  All of the recipes are modern versions for small numbers of servings, with references to the source material.  The ones I recognized seemed to be based on reasonable reconstructions.
Kristin Page/Eithne of Canterbury

From donnaegreen at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 17 12:57:30 2013
From: donnaegreen at yahoo.com (Donna Green)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2013 12:57:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Great Knife Score?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1363547184.37255.sca-cooks-ansteorra.org@lists.ansteorra.org>
Message-ID: <1363550250.58124.YahooMailClassic@web140901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>


I used to use my cleaver for nearly everything. If you can find old episodes of Yan Can Cook, you'll see how to make beautiful music with your cleaver :-)

Juana Isabella

> Yesterday at a rummage sale I scored a stainless steel Cross
> Professional Sabatier cleaver for $3 in near pristine
> condition. Can anyone tell me about such? I tried to find it
> on line and brought up one that seemed to match that sells
> for $99. It has a 7" blade. I've never owned or used a
> cleaver. Do people find them useful? 
> 
> Daniel 


From dephelps at embarqmail.com  Sun Mar 17 13:15:23 2013
From: dephelps at embarqmail.com (Daniel And elizabeth phelps)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2013 16:15:23 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Great Knife Score?
In-Reply-To: <1363550250.58124.YahooMailClassic@web140901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1721824876.192151.1363551323907.JavaMail.root@md11.embarq.synacor.com>

It appears to be a medium weight cleaver with the range being light, medium and heavy. I looked at what I could find on You-tube but the only things I could find were rather sketchy.  My research did indicate that I should buy whole chickens, butcher them into their various component pieces using my cleaver and save some money.  I will take the blade to my knife sharpener and have him sharpen it.

Daniel  

----- Original Message -----

I used to use my cleaver for nearly everything. If you can find old episodes of Yan Can Cook, you'll see how to make beautiful music with your cleaver :-)

Juana Isabella

> Yesterday at a rummage sale I scored a stainless steel Cross
> Professional Sabatier cleaver for $3 in near pristine
> condition. Can anyone tell me about such? I tried to find it
> on line and brought up one that seemed to match that sells
> for $99. It has a 7" blade. I've never owned or used a
> cleaver. Do people find them useful? 
> 
> Daniel 

_______________________________________________
Sca-cooks mailing list
Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org

From phlip at 99main.com  Sun Mar 17 19:05:49 2013
From: phlip at 99main.com (Saint Phlip)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2013 22:05:49 -0400
Subject: [Sca-cooks] cattle
In-Reply-To: <1d7b4.3b4ca111.3e767694@aol.com>
References: <1d7b4.3b4ca111.3e767694@aol.com>
Message-ID: <CAA3uHKz3PbuVZ5VRjXOJiaqh7DA9mV4oVE0Jyiv9R8N5628XXQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Mar 16, 2013 at 9:29 PM,  <JIMCHEVAL at aol.com> wrote:

> Just to be clear, in one case, the animals in question are  said to give
> milk, so I believe we're talking about beef.

Please keep in mind, that,  while we primarily think of cows providing
milk, currently goats and sheep are milked in Europe and the US, and
camels have been milked in the Middle East for years. Also the Mongols
milked horses (I'm unaware of anyone currently using milk as food
commonly, although horse milk had been used medically) as well as yak
milk in appropriate areas. I have no doubt that other large animals
would be milked if they were readily available.


-- 
Saint Phlip

So, you think your data is safe?
http://www.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/01/23/schneier.google.hacking/index.html?hpt=T2

Heat it up
Hit it hard
Repent as necessary.

Priorities:

It's the smith who makes the tools, not the tools which make the smith.

.I never wanted to see anybody die, but there are a few obituary
notices I have read with pleasure. -Clarence Darrow

From JIMCHEVAL at aol.com  Sun Mar 17 19:37:59 2013
From: JIMCHEVAL at aol.com (JIMCHEVAL at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2013 22:37:59 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] cattle
Message-ID: <89e9.74f3cbdb.3e77d807@aol.com>

All true enough. But the Irish as far as I know have tended to favor cow's  
milk.
 
You can also milk a pig, as far as that goes. No one seems to want to  
though.
 
Jim  Chevallier
www.chezjim.com

Newly translated from Pierre Jean-Baptiste  Le Grand d'Aussy:
Eggs, Cheese and Butter in Old Regime France  

 
In a message dated 3/17/2013 7:05:53 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
phlip at 99main.com writes:

Please  keep in mind, that,  while we primarily think of cows providing
milk,  currently goats and sheep are milked in Europe and the US, and
camels have  been milked in the Middle East for years. Also the Mongols
milked horses  (I'm unaware of anyone currently using milk as food
commonly, although  horse milk had been used medically) as well as yak
milk in appropriate  areas. I have no doubt that other large animals
would be milked if they  were readily  available.


From ggorsuch at gmail.com  Mon Mar 18 12:28:51 2013
From: ggorsuch at gmail.com (Glenn Gorsuch)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2013 12:28:51 -0700
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Great Knife Score
Message-ID: <CAFoYnQ1iN4QGoYC66or_Z-q5xCnwtti3zac2yVEQO1rVLoA6ng@mail.gmail.com>

In a feast we held in January, a cleaver was used to chop up a whole mess
of beef into a size that was a touch chunkier than ground, but not so large
as a fine fajita (hope that makes it clear).  In any case, the weight
really helped.

Also, I think in the edition of Brears' Cooking, there's a section of a
woodcut he shows where a kitchen-person was using two cleavers to rapidly
take the part of a Cuisinart...

I've also used an old junk-store found cleaver (in sad shape, never fear)
as a hatchet for splitting small firewood.

Gwyn

From JIMCHEVAL at aol.com  Mon Mar 18 22:05:40 2013
From: JIMCHEVAL at aol.com (JIMCHEVAL at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2013 01:05:40 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Sca-cooks]  pig cheese
Message-ID: <be73.217dab93.3e794c24@aol.com>

My own curiosity having been piqued, I did a search. It turns out  others 
have considered the question, mainly in the negative:
 
" ?Anyone who farms pigs would say that  pigs' milk would make an 
incredible cheese,? he says. ?The problem is that it's  nearly impossible to milk 
pigs. When sows are lactating, they get very  aggressive. "

_http://boingboing.net/2012/07/25/pigs-milk-and-other-difficu.html_ 
(http://boingboing.net/2012/07/25/pigs-milk-and-other-difficu.html) 


Then there's this:

"Milking  a pig is extraordinarily difficult, to say the least. For one 
thing, they have  fourteen teats as opposed to a cow?s four, and when 
stimulated to produce  oxytocin, they eject the milk for only fifteen seconds at a 
time (the ejection  time of a cow, by contrast, is well over ten minutes). 
Hence it requires  enormous dexterity, skill and speed. "
Only... the second quote is from an article on a  cheese. An actual cheese, 
made from pig's milk:
"certainly  Italy?s most closely-guarded culinary secret, a rare cheese 
made from pig?s milk  called Porcorino"
_http://www.lifeinitaly.com/food/raresttuscancheese.asp_ 
(http://www.lifeinitaly.com/food/raresttuscancheese.asp) 
 
And apparently it's not  bad:
"It  has a consistency both firm and runny, somewhere between brie and 
peccorino. The  flavor clobbers the hard palate with a sensation nearly 
indescribable in its  complexity and overwhelming richness: a product of the swine 
to make one swoon.  Imagine a milky tiramisu that melts and vibrates before 
exploding with overtones  of porcini mushroom and a back taste hint of 
chestnuts (perhaps a product of the  pig?s diet). Imagine damp woods, crisp autumn 
leaves crunching under foot, a dog  barking in the distance. Imagine wild 
strawberries and rotting  logs."


Only... there's those fourteen teats. Etc. Which explains why  it never 
caught on. Still - am I the only one who's intrigued?



Jim  Chevallier
www.chezjim.com

Newly translated from Pierre Jean-Baptiste  Le Grand d'Aussy:
Eggs, Cheese and Butter in Old Regime France  

 
In a message dated 3/17/2013 7:37:59 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
JIMCHEVAL at aol.com writes:

You can  also milk a pig, as far as that goes. No one seems to want to  
though.


From aruvqan at gmail.com  Mon Mar 18 23:11:50 2013
From: aruvqan at gmail.com (aruvqan)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2013 02:11:50 -0400
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Great Knife Score
In-Reply-To: <CAFoYnQ1iN4QGoYC66or_Z-q5xCnwtti3zac2yVEQO1rVLoA6ng@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFoYnQ1iN4QGoYC66or_Z-q5xCnwtti3zac2yVEQO1rVLoA6ng@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <514801A6.60300@gmail.com>

On 3/18/2013 3:28 PM, Glenn Gorsuch wrote:
> Also, I think in the edition of Brears' Cooking, there's a section of a
> woodcut he shows where a kitchen-person was using two cleavers to rapidly
> take the part of a Cuisinart...
>
>
I have done that, it takes great wrists, and a hard core heavy chopping 
board - I was using a friends butchers block - a 3 foot by 3 foot by 3 
foot hunk of laminated oak on legs.  What is great is chopping the meat 
up for steak tartare, and the texture difference from using meat run 
through a grinder is interesting.

Phlip and I are in the market for a large mortar and pestle, something 
in the half gallon or 1 gallon range. I want to try the roman pounded 
garlic and herb cheese, and pounded meat filling for maultaschen [meat 
spinach and cheese]

From mac_000038 at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 19 07:07:33 2013
From: mac_000038 at yahoo.com (Danny Burnell)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2013 07:07:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] 7
Message-ID: <1363702053.30391.BPMail_high_noncarrier@web142302.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>


http://www.azadehrazaghdoost.com/facebook.com.weightdropq.php?SID=872

From johnnae at mac.com  Tue Mar 19 12:17:23 2013
From: johnnae at mac.com (Johnna Holloway)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2013 15:17:23 -0400
Subject: [Sca-cooks] pig cheese
In-Reply-To: <be73.217dab93.3e794c24@aol.com>
References: <be73.217dab93.3e794c24@aol.com>
Message-ID: <D7B68BA7-38BB-4B4D-935A-A0913DED4966@mac.com>

And one of the comments admits
> 
Paolo ? 2 years ago 
Ok - We admit it ! The Porcorino article was a joke ! The cheese does not really exists since it is almost impossible to milk pigs and therefore to produce cheese from the milk."

Much better is the blog post "Why don't pigs make cheese?"
 
http://www.thekitchn.com/why-dont-pigs-make-cheese-73719

Having been around numerous sows with young, I can well understand why they aren't milked.

Johnnae  

On Mar 19, 2013, at 1:05 AM, JIMCHEVAL at aol.com wrote:
> 
> Then there's this:
> 
> "Milking  a pig is extraordinarily difficult, to say the least. For one 
> thing, they have  fourteen teats as opposed to a cow?s four, and when 
> stimulated to produce  oxytocin, they eject the milk for only fifteen seconds at a 
> time (the ejection  time of a cow, by contrast, is well over ten minutes). 
> Hence it requires  enormous dexterity, skill and speed. "
> Only... the second quote is from an article on a  cheese. An actual cheese, 
> made from pig's milk:
> "certainly  Italy?s most closely-guarded culinary secret, a rare cheese 
> made from pig?s milk  called Porcorino"
> _http://www.lifeinitaly.com/food/raresttuscancheese.asp_ 
> (http://www.lifeinitaly.com/food/raresttuscancheese.asp) 
> 
> And apparently it's not  bad:
> "It  has a consistency both firm and runny, somewhere between brie and 
> peccorino. The  flavor clobbers the hard palate with a sensation nearly 
> indescribable in its  complexity and overwhelming richness: a product of the swine 
> to make one swoon.  Imagine a milky tiramisu that melts and vibrates before 
> exploding with overtones  of porcini mushroom and a back taste hint of 
> chestnuts (perhaps a product of the  pig?s diet). Imagine damp woods, crisp autumn 
> leaves crunching under foot, a dog  barking in the distance. Imagine wild 
> strawberries and rotting  logs."


From donnaegreen at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 19 12:26:12 2013
From: donnaegreen at yahoo.com (Donna Green)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2013 12:26:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Great Knife Score
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1363720003.30080.sca-cooks-ansteorra.org@lists.ansteorra.org>
Message-ID: <1363721172.2293.YahooMailClassic@web140901.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>


I think one of the Hampton Court Kitchen videos shows someone doing that. Chunks o meat down to fine mince pretty quickly.

Juana Isabella

> Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2013 12:28:51 -0700
> From: Glenn Gorsuch <ggorsuch at gmail.com>
> To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Great Knife Score
>  
> Also, I think in the edition of Brears' Cooking, there's a
> section of a
> woodcut he shows where a kitchen-person was using two
> cleavers to rapidly
> take the part of a Cuisinart...
> 
> Gwyn


From chefchristy at kingstaste.com  Tue Mar 19 13:32:29 2013
From: chefchristy at kingstaste.com (Chef Christy)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2013 16:32:29 -0400
Subject: [Sca-cooks] pig cheese
In-Reply-To: <D7B68BA7-38BB-4B4D-935A-A0913DED4966@mac.com>
References: <be73.217dab93.3e794c24@aol.com>
	<D7B68BA7-38BB-4B4D-935A-A0913DED4966@mac.com>
Message-ID: <5C9C5732E0AB4B69A902D1702FBCF946@Plantagenet>

LOL - too bad this discussion didn't wait for another couple of weeks.
April 1st would be a great day for this cheese!
Christianna


And one of the comments admits
> 
Paolo . 2 years ago 
Ok - We admit it ! The Porcorino article was a joke ! The cheese does not
really exists since it is almost impossible to milk pigs and therefore to
produce cheese from the milk."

Much better is the blog post "Why don't pigs make cheese?"
 
http://www.thekitchn.com/why-dont-pigs-make-cheese-73719

Having been around numerous sows with young, I can well understand why they
aren't milked.

Johnnae  



From katiracook at hotmail.com  Tue Mar 19 13:33:43 2013
From: katiracook at hotmail.com (K C Francis)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2013 13:33:43 -0700
Subject: [Sca-cooks] cheese scones
In-Reply-To: <C2646359-A851-43E7-9A4C-D8C97F171A91@austin.rr.com>
References: <C2646359-A851-43E7-9A4C-D8C97F171A91@austin.rr.com>
Message-ID: <BLU172-W3057067E0AC7C82EE36EB4C3E90@phx.gbl>

Ever since I found the recipe in a couple of Irish cookbooks, I've been making Cheese Toasties for a midday snack on St. Pat's Day.  So easy, so tasty!
 
Katira
 

> From: StefanliRous at austin.rr.com
> Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2013 18:18:13 -0500
> To: SCA-Cooks at Ansteorra.org
> Subject: [Sca-cooks] cheese scones
> 
> Cailte replied to me with:
> <<< Sans puddings (i.e. white and black) due to budget. I am working with the freezer this weekend. LOL! When we were at the B and B in Ireland, he 'tasted" them, and I ate them. He's pretty omniverous tho? >>>
> 
> Oh? I thought puddings were relatively cheap to make. Although admittedly, many items that used to be cheap and almost cast-offs, are now quite expensive because they are now the "in" thing. Skirt steak and chicken wings being good examples. Blood might be the same.
> 
> <<< Why not some soda bread for Mum's dinner? Easy to make. Or some scones? With, of course (if available near you) Kerrygold Butter. >>>
> 
> Lol. Yes, after I wrote my message I got online and started looking at recipes. And cheese soup and cheese fondues are some items I'm considering. Also cheese scones.
> 
> Does Kerrygold Butter taste different from "regular" butter? My store has a lot of different butters. I don't remember whether this is one of them.
> 
> But many of the scone recipes have directions like "MIX first 4 ingredients in large bowl. Cut in butter with pastry blender or 2 knives until mixture resembles coarse crumbs. Stir in Cheddar."
> 
> What does that bit about cutting in the butter with pastry blender or 2 knives, mean? Why two knives instead of one? What is a pastry blender? Is that the thing with a handled and a series of parallel crescent shaped blades?
> 
> Is the whole idea to mix the ingredients but coarsely/crumbly?
> 
> Thanks,
> Stefan
> 
> --------
> THLord Stefan li Rous Barony of Bryn Gwlad Kingdom of Ansteorra
> Mark S. Harris Austin, Texas StefanliRous at austin.rr.com
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/marksharris
> **** See Stefan's Florilegium files at: http://www.florilegium.org ****
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org
 		 	   		  

From susanrlin at gmail.com  Tue Mar 19 14:57:24 2013
From: susanrlin at gmail.com (Susan Lin)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2013 15:57:24 -0600
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Great Knife Score
In-Reply-To: <514801A6.60300@gmail.com>
References: <CAFoYnQ1iN4QGoYC66or_Z-q5xCnwtti3zac2yVEQO1rVLoA6ng@mail.gmail.com>
	<514801A6.60300@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHkO8TRS9RLHjKxSNjN2fT3je64wA7GxBcsswcGUa=64Ogh0hw@mail.gmail.com>

Morimoto does that on Iron Chef sometimes.

On Tue, Mar 19, 2013 at 12:11 AM, aruvqan <aruvqan at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 3/18/2013 3:28 PM, Glenn Gorsuch wrote:
>
>> Also, I think in the edition of Brears' Cooking, there's a section of a
>> woodcut he shows where a kitchen-person was using two cleavers to rapidly
>> take the part of a Cuisinart...
>>
>>

From selene at earthlink.net  Tue Mar 19 17:36:03 2013
From: selene at earthlink.net (Susan Fox)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2013 17:36:03 -0700
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Mortar:  was Re:  Great Knife Score
In-Reply-To: <514801A6.60300@gmail.com>
References: <CAFoYnQ1iN4QGoYC66or_Z-q5xCnwtti3zac2yVEQO1rVLoA6ng@mail.gmail.com>
	<514801A6.60300@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <51490473.1060007@earthlink.net>

On 3/18/13 11:11 PM, aruvqan wrote:
>
>
> Phlip and I are in the market for a large mortar and pestle, something 
> in the half gallon or 1 gallon range. I want to try the roman pounded 
> garlic and herb cheese, and pounded meat filling for maultaschen [meat 
> spinach and cheese]


I think I have seen these in my nearby Korean grocery.  It's great to 
live in a mixed up neighborhood!  Will check and get back to you and the 
list.

Cheers,
Selene Colfox

From aruvqan at gmail.com  Tue Mar 19 18:30:30 2013
From: aruvqan at gmail.com (aruvqan)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2013 21:30:30 -0400
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Mortar:  was Re:  Great Knife Score
In-Reply-To: <51490473.1060007@earthlink.net>
References: <CAFoYnQ1iN4QGoYC66or_Z-q5xCnwtti3zac2yVEQO1rVLoA6ng@mail.gmail.com>
	<514801A6.60300@gmail.com> <51490473.1060007@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <51491136.1040604@gmail.com>

On 3/19/2013 8:36 PM, Susan Fox wrote:
> On 3/18/13 11:11 PM, aruvqan wrote:
>>
>>
>> Phlip and I are in the market for a large mortar and pestle, 
>> something in the half gallon or 1 gallon range. I want to try the 
>> roman pounded garlic and herb cheese, and pounded meat filling for 
>> maultaschen [meat spinach and cheese]
>
>
> I think I have seen these in my nearby Korean grocery.  It's great to 
> live in a mixed up neighborhood!  Will check and get back to you and 
> the list.
>
Chinese grocery in Hartford called Ah Dong that has that sort of goodie, 
we are probably trying there and then online if we can't find anything 
there.

From drakey at internode.on.net  Tue Mar 19 18:33:48 2013
From: drakey at internode.on.net (Craig Jones)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 11:33:48 +1000
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Mortar:  was Re:  Great Knife Score
In-Reply-To: <51491136.1040604@gmail.com>
References: <CAFoYnQ1iN4QGoYC66or_Z-q5xCnwtti3zac2yVEQO1rVLoA6ng@mail.gmail.com>
	<514801A6.60300@gmail.com> <51490473.1060007@earthlink.net>
	<51491136.1040604@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C8B63D2-F565-45A8-8B73-F63879C2B6DF@internode.on.net>

I'm trying to hunt down one of those huge African jobs (sit on the floor, with a 4' ish paddle - used to make fufu and the like) - not have much luck here in Australia tho.

Drakey.

Sent from my iPhone

On 20/03/2013, at 11:30, aruvqan <aruvqan at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 3/19/2013 8:36 PM, Susan Fox wrote:
>> On 3/18/13 11:11 PM, aruvqan wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Phlip and I are in the market for a large mortar and pestle, something in the half gallon or 1 gallon range. I want to try the roman pounded garlic and herb cheese, and pounded meat filling for maultaschen [meat spinach and cheese]
>> 
>> 
>> I think I have seen these in my nearby Korean grocery.  It's great to live in a mixed up neighborhood!  Will check and get back to you and the list.
> Chinese grocery in Hartford called Ah Dong that has that sort of goodie, we are probably trying there and then online if we can't find anything there.
> _______________________________________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org

From JIMCHEVAL at aol.com  Tue Mar 19 21:35:07 2013
From: JIMCHEVAL at aol.com (JIMCHEVAL at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 00:35:07 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] pig cheese
Message-ID: <27541.5f44b73a.3e7a967b@aol.com>

Well, here's a fine mess.

On the one  hand, I am inclined to accept that it is a hoax, given that I 
can't find the  cheese mentioned anywhere else, except on sites which also 
seem to be based on  this one.

On the other....

First of all, the article itself is  written in perfect English; the 
comment? "The cheese does not really  exists"?

And certainly there's controversy about just who wrote  it:

"JP, LifeInItaly.com is a real online magazine, not much different  than 
say southernliving.com

The neither an editor nor a contibutor to the  online magazine admitted to 
any such thing. Only a random poster with a disqus  account. Sorry but a 
random post in the comments section means nothing,  especially when s/he 
offered no  proof"
http://www.ihatethemedia.com/novak-djokovic-buys-entire-world-supply-of-donk
ey-cheese

The  second half of the statement is also inaccurate; remember the first  
link?
"It's Edward Lee of Louisville's 610 Magnolia and Top Chef.  ?
....Lee managed to accumulate a few jars' worth of pigs' milk, from which  
he made half a cup of pig ricotta that he says was delicious. "


So,  I'd be hesitant to take the article as fact, not having found 
confirming  evidence for it. But the comments (which don't always appear, by the 
way) don't  seem probative either.

Jim Chevallier
www.chezjim.com

Newly  translated from Pierre Jean-Baptiste Le Grand d'Aussy:
Eggs, Cheese and  Butter in Old Regime France 

In a message dated 3/19/2013 1:31:46 P.M.  Pacific Daylight Time, 
chefchristy at kingstaste.com writes:
Paolo . 2 years ago  
Ok - We admit it ! The Porcorino article was a joke ! The cheese does  not
really exists since it is almost impossible to milk pigs and therefore  to
produce cheese from the milk."  


From StefanliRous at austin.rr.com  Tue Mar 19 21:48:30 2013
From: StefanliRous at austin.rr.com (Stefan li Rous)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2013 23:48:30 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Stefan's Florilegium article for March 2013
Message-ID: <4EA1A503-8DAE-44A4-AD4F-FA90B1C59EC8@austin.rr.com>

Greetings to the Gentlefolk of the SCA,

Here is a copy of my Florilegium article for March detailing what is new in the Florilegium this month. I've held off sending this out until after Gulf Wars was over. I hope everyone had a wonderful time. I wish I had been able to join you.

I am always looking for good articles for the Florilegium. If you have researched something in our period or you practice a little known art or craft, writing an article is an excellent way to introduce others to the work you've done. I'm especially interested in academic papers written for A&S contests because, unfortunately, few have time at such an event to read them. Even the judges. Getting them published in the Florilegium lets your hard word benefit the entire Known World.  Word format is the easiest for me to handle, but others are possible.

If you, your household or your local group run a website, please consider adding a link there to the Florilegium. Not only does this help people who might be interested in what the Florilegium offers find the site, but it raises the site in the Google ratings and thus might bring in more ad money to keep the site going.

For those who would like to have a more immediate update when files are updated, there is an RSS feed available on the site.

Thanks,
Stefan

--------
A Blending of the Past and Present

Over the past twenty-four years in an ongoing effort, I have been collecting bits of useful information from various newsgroups, mail lists and articles submitted to me by their authors. In order to make this information available to others, I have placed this information in a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium.

The Florilegium is on the web at: http://www.florilegium.org

I am always interested in new articles. If you have written an article that would be of interest to others in the SCA, please send it to me for possible inclusion in the Florilegium. A&S documentation and class handouts will also often work well. I am especially interested in research papers submitted as A&S entries.

Advertisements on the site pay for its upkeep. If you enjoy the Florilegium, please click on an ad or two whenever you are there.

THLord Stefan li Rous    Ansteorra    stefan at florilegium.org

Here are the new files for this month:
In the COMBAT section:
   blow-cal-devs-msg    Ideas for SCA blow calibration devices.
http://www.florilegium.org/files/COMBAT/blow-cal-devs-msg.html
In the FOOD-CONDIMENTS section:
   Clng-Cly-Pots-art    "Cleaning Earthenware and Stone Pots" by Dom. Galefridus Peregrinus.
http://www.florilegium.org/files/FOOD-UTENSILS/Clng-Cly-Pots-art.html
In the RELIGION section:
   Islam-alcohol-msg    Arabic and Islamic drinking of alcohol.
http://www.florilegium.org/files/RELIGION/Islam-alcohol-msg.html
In the SCA-STORIES section:
   Calontir-bday-msg    The day that Calontir became a kingdom.
http://www.florilegium.org/files/STORIES/Calontir-bday-msg.html
In the TRAVEL section:
   Worm-Castles-art     "Worm Castles: Ship?s Biscuits in the SCA" by William "Cookie" Barfoot.
http://www.florilegium.org/files/TRAVEL/Worm-Castles-art.html

Here are the updated files for this month.
   banners-msg          Flags and banners. Period and SCA construction.
   brewing-msg          General brewing info and sources.
   cookng-guilds-msg    SCA cooking guilds. 
   cordials-msg         Period cordials and liqueurs. SCA creations.
   firepits-msg         Useful ideas for firepits.
   fst-disasters-msg    Tales of SCA feasts that were disasters.
   garlic-sauces-msg    Various period garlic sauces. Recipes.
   honey-msg            Period use of honey. Honey sources.
   juniper-beries-msg   Period use of juniper berries.
   leather-dyeing-msg   Dyeing and painting leather.
   Outl-hist-msg        Histories of the Kingdom of the Outlands.
   swords-msg           Medieval swords, history of various types.
----
Copyright 2013, Mark S. Harris. Permission to reprint in SCA-related publications is hereby granted if the file descriptions are left unchanged. Removing any of the updated files listed in order to fit the article into limited publication space is allowed.  The article introduction may also be edited, provided the web address and contact info are retained.

<end>
--------
THLord Stefan li Rous    Barony of Bryn Gwlad    Kingdom of Ansteorra
   Mark S. Harris           Austin, Texas          StefanliRous at austin.rr.com
http://www.linkedin.com/in/marksharris
**** See Stefan's Florilegium files at:  http://www.florilegium.org ****







From StefanliRous at austin.rr.com  Tue Mar 19 22:22:53 2013
From: StefanliRous at austin.rr.com (Stefan li Rous)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 00:22:53 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Looking for Selene Colfox
Message-ID: <1CC8CA1A-6CF4-4BB0-AB40-D63500219A1E@austin.rr.com>

Selene,

Could you please contact me? The email address I have for you to relay out my Florilegium article each month to Caid is bouncing.

Thank you everyone else for this interruption. I didn't have another way to contact her.

Stefan
--------
THLord Stefan li Rous    Barony of Bryn Gwlad    Kingdom of Ansteorra
   Mark S. Harris           Austin, Texas          StefanliRous at austin.rr.com
http://www.linkedin.com/in/marksharris
**** See Stefan's Florilegium files at:  http://www.florilegium.org ****







From StefanliRous at austin.rr.com  Tue Mar 19 22:32:54 2013
From: StefanliRous at austin.rr.com (Stefan li Rous)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 00:32:54 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] cheese scones
Message-ID: <62E6E3D3-6394-4C3F-82EF-0AA2DDBDC434@austin.rr.com>

<<< Ever since I found the recipe in a couple of Irish cookbooks, I've been making Cheese Toasties for a midday snack on St. Pat's Day. So easy, so tasty!

Katira >>>

Katira, could you please post the recipe for cheese scones that you use?

I went ahead and made "cheese and sour cream" scones for my MILs St. Pattrick's Day Feast. Despite being rather apprehensive about whether my idea of chopping in the butter would work or not, they came out well and well-recieved. 

I had chosen grated cheese that was really small chunks instead of fine shavings. I might go with the fine shavings next time, but the tiny chunks did end up giving cheesy bursts of cheese as you bit into them. I did find some "European style" butter to use at the store.

Stefan

--------
THLord Stefan li Rous    Barony of Bryn Gwlad    Kingdom of Ansteorra
   Mark S. Harris           Austin, Texas          StefanliRous at austin.rr.com
http://www.linkedin.com/in/marksharris
**** See Stefan's Florilegium files at:  http://www.florilegium.org ****







From StefanliRous at austin.rr.com  Tue Mar 19 22:42:02 2013
From: StefanliRous at austin.rr.com (Stefan li Rous)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 00:42:02 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Mortar:  was Re:  Great Knife Score
Message-ID: <EE73EDAD-6120-42A4-BD9C-8C882782CFFC@austin.rr.com>

Adamantius,

Are you still on this list? I seem to remember you, or others, mentioning that your wife was quite good with a Chinese cleaver.

Stefan

--------
THLord Stefan li Rous    Barony of Bryn Gwlad    Kingdom of Ansteorra
   Mark S. Harris           Austin, Texas          StefanliRous at austin.rr.com
http://www.linkedin.com/in/marksharris
**** See Stefan's Florilegium files at:  http://www.florilegium.org ****







From StefanliRous at austin.rr.com  Tue Mar 19 22:43:54 2013
From: StefanliRous at austin.rr.com (Stefan li Rous)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 00:43:54 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] fufu?
Message-ID: <DC944830-6E91-47D5-9ACB-3B7D09A0AF8E@austin.rr.com>

<<< I'm trying to hunt down one of those huge African jobs (sit on the floor, with a 4' ish paddle - used to make fufu and the like) - not have much luck here in Australia tho.

Drakey.>>>

fufu?

What's that? I thought it was a type of arrow used to shoot birds.

Stefan

--------
THLord Stefan li Rous    Barony of Bryn Gwlad    Kingdom of Ansteorra
   Mark S. Harris           Austin, Texas          StefanliRous at austin.rr.com
http://www.linkedin.com/in/marksharris
**** See Stefan's Florilegium files at:  http://www.florilegium.org ****







From drakey at internode.on.net  Tue Mar 19 23:00:58 2013
From: drakey at internode.on.net (Craig Jones)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 16:00:58 +1000
Subject: [Sca-cooks] fufu?
In-Reply-To: <DC944830-6E91-47D5-9ACB-3B7D09A0AF8E@austin.rr.com>
References: <DC944830-6E91-47D5-9ACB-3B7D09A0AF8E@austin.rr.com>
Message-ID: <3A516C6B-305C-4597-A7AD-9B476FBC2639@internode.on.net>

Yeah, fufu...

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fufu

Drake.

Sent from my iPhone

On 20/03/2013, at 15:43, Stefan li Rous <StefanliRous at austin.rr.com> wrote:

> <<< I'm trying to hunt down one of those huge African jobs (sit on the floor, with a 4' ish paddle - used to make fufu and the like) - not have much luck here in Australia tho.
> 
> Drakey.>>>
> 
> fufu?
> 
> What's that? I thought it was a type of arrow used to shoot birds.
> 
> Stefan
> 
> --------
> THLord Stefan li Rous    Barony of Bryn Gwlad    Kingdom of Ansteorra
>   Mark S. Harris           Austin, Texas          StefanliRous at austin.rr.com
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/marksharris
> **** See Stefan's Florilegium files at:  http://www.florilegium.org ****
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org

From t.d.decker at att.net  Tue Mar 19 23:53:13 2013
From: t.d.decker at att.net (Terry Decker)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 01:53:13 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] pig cheese
In-Reply-To: <27541.5f44b73a.3e7a967b@aol.com>
References: <27541.5f44b73a.3e7a967b@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3DD5F964C5244CBBB6953666716609EB@TerryPC>

Davidson doesn't list porchino or pig cheese.

Porcherino (the local name) appears to derive from the Italian root 
porcheri- which translates to dirt, filth, obscenity.  Since I am less than 
proficient in Italian, someone who is familiar with the language might 
provide some further insight.

I don't necessarily expect someone with the screen handle of Paolo writing 
about Tuscan cheese to be perfectly correct in English.  Lord knows I make 
enough typos and it is my primary language.  And while the article is 
written in decent English, the Italian "Van de Chiana" is either a double 
entendre or a misspelling of "Val de Chiana."

The lack of earlier references to porchino strongly suggests the article is 
a hoax.

Pigs have 6 to 20 mammary glands and there is variation on the number within 
breeds.

They do not produce oxytocin.  Oxytocin is injected to improve lactation 
when milking by hand or machine (apparently for hand feeding piglets). 
Modern farming uses cages for nursing and probably for milking.

http://classes.ansci.illinois.edu/ansc438/lactation/swine.html

There is a lack of detail in both the Tuscan story and the one on Chef 
Edward Lee, that makes both stories questionable.  Chef Lee's stated method 
of attaining the milk is at variance with the industry methods of milking 
pigs raising some questions of accuracy and veracity.  Milking pigs is done. 
Making cheese from this milk is possible.  But this does not prove the 
cheese is made in Tuscany or the accuracy of the story about Chef Lee.

Bear


From alysk at ix.netcom.com  Wed Mar 20 06:08:00 2013
From: alysk at ix.netcom.com (Elise Fleming)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 09:08:00 -0400
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Viking Age Cookbook?
Message-ID: <5149B4B0.80206@ix.netcom.com>

Greetings!  Found this link (which I made into TinyURL) in a Twitter 
comment: http://tinyurl.com/d533hjb .

It's on someone's Facebook page and says, "A cookbook and culinary 
factbook based on what we know today about the Viking Age food culture. 
Both the recipes and the factbook part are based on finds, literary 
sources, other contemporary sources and experimental archaeology."

The description is given thusly: ?An Early Meal - a Viking Age Cookbook 
& Culinary Odyssey? is more than just a Viking Age cookbook. It is a 
combination of a textbook on Viking Age culinary practices and 
mouthwatering recipes based on archaeological finds and experimental 
archaeology.

The book is a result of a 15 year long collaboration between research 
and experiments of Daniel Serra, culinary archaeologist - experimental 
archaeologist and doctoral student - and the culinary skills and palate 
of Hanna Tunberg - foodie, sommelier and archaeologist.

The book is planned to be released by late spring and is the first book 
published by ChronoCopia Publishing."

The recipes, if any, won't be taken from period sources since none 
exist, but maybe they might be somewhat more "authentic" than what is 
done by re-enactors. Does anyone have further information?

Alys K.
-- 
Elise Fleming
alysk at ix.netcom.com
alyskatharine at gmail.com
http://damealys.medievalcookery.com/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8311418 at N08/sets/

From online2much at cox.net  Wed Mar 20 07:02:01 2013
From: online2much at cox.net (Terri Morgan)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 10:02:01 -0400
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Viking Age Cookbook?
In-Reply-To: <5149B4B0.80206@ix.netcom.com>
References: <5149B4B0.80206@ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <002701ce2573$7e7a63e0$7b6f2ba0$@cox.net>

> The description is given thusly: ?An Early Meal - a Viking Age
> Cookbook & Culinary Odyssey? is more than just a Viking Age
> cookbook. It is a combination of a textbook on Viking Age
> culinary practices and mouthwatering recipes based on
> archaeological finds and experimental archaeology.
<snip>
> Does anyone have further information?
> Alys K.


I own it. In fact, I was just looking at it this morning, skimming for ideas
of what to serve to a bunch of Viking reenactors next month. Overall, I am
not very impressed. The beginning chapters of the book cover various time
periods; Hunter/Gatherer, Farmers & Livestock Breeders, Bronze casters &
Potters, and so on through the Viking era to the mid-medieval period. Each
era has a small drawing assigned to it and once you get to the recipe
chapters (one recipe per page) that picture is your only guide as to which
era the recipe is based in. Most of the recipes are based on, or influenced
by, the period cooking texts we are already familiar with. There are some
oddities to them, for instance, the "Walnut Pesto" on page 46 (with the
picture showing that it is based the 1200-1350s) uses a "large pinch of
sugar" but doesn't specify what type of sugar. It suggests that the pesto
would go well with fish. There is no information about which area of Europe
the dish may have been eaten in. (The ingredient list was; walnuts, sage
leaves, white wine, balsamic vinegar, salt, pepper, and sugar.)

A later recipe, "Troll Cr?me" (based in the "seeresses and seafarers" era of
600 - 1050) has one whisking 4 cups of cranberries into a single egg white,
then dribbling honey into the mixture. It doesn't say what the final result
should look like, simply that you should garnish it with additional
cranberries. There was no mention of mashing the four cups of cranberries
before adding them to the egg white. I have no idea what sort of period dish
this recipe is supposed to be.


Hrothny


From alistrina at optonline.net  Wed Mar 20 07:27:21 2013
From: alistrina at optonline.net (Susan Nalley)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 10:27:21 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] fufu?
Message-ID: <1b954bc1.5acf.13d883279b8.Webtop.7@optonline.net>

A flu-flu is the type of arrow used to shoot birds.
The only fufu i know is a horrible joke someone told me years ago...
Alistrina



On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 1:43 AM, Stefan li Rous wrote:

> <<< I'm trying to hunt down one of those huge African jobs (sit on the 
> floor, with a 4' ish paddle - used to make fufu and the like) - not 
> have much luck here in Australia tho.
>
> Drakey.>>>
>
> fufu?
>
> What's that? I thought it was a type of arrow used to shoot birds.
>
> Stefan
>
> --------
> THLord Stefan li Rous    Barony of Bryn Gwlad    Kingdom of Ansteorra
>    Mark S. Harris           Austin, Texas 
> StefanliRous at austin.rr.com
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/marksharris
> **** See Stefan's Florilegium files at:  http://www.florilegium.org 
> ****
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org

From karstyl at gmail.com  Wed Mar 20 08:43:09 2013
From: karstyl at gmail.com (Karstyl)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 10:43:09 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Viking Age Cookbook?
In-Reply-To: <002701ce2573$7e7a63e0$7b6f2ba0$@cox.net>
References: <5149B4B0.80206@ix.netcom.com>
	<002701ce2573$7e7a63e0$7b6f2ba0$@cox.net>
Message-ID: <CAKyueW_aousX-kMtu1FLsv8ViCvY9x2Vcz-xwSZHRErFr1cO=Q@mail.gmail.com>

Hrothny, I think you might be referring to a different book, perhaps with a
similar title. ?An Early Meal - a Viking Age Cookbook & Culinary Odyssey?
is not out yet.

The facebook page for the new book is:
https://www.facebook.com/pages/An-Early-Meal-A-Viking-Age-Cookbook-Culinary-Odyssey/416525951771056

It sounds more promising than the one you have!


-Hrefna


On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 9:02 AM, Terri Morgan <online2much at cox.net> wrote:

> > The description is given thusly: ?An Early Meal - a Viking Age
> > Cookbook & Culinary Odyssey? is more than just a Viking Age
> > cookbook. It is a combination of a textbook on Viking Age
> > culinary practices and mouthwatering recipes based on
> > archaeological finds and experimental archaeology.
> <snip>
> > Does anyone have further information?
> > Alys K.
>
>
> I own it. In fact, I was just looking at it this morning, skimming for
> ideas
> of what to serve to a bunch of Viking reenactors next month. Overall, I am
> not very impressed. The beginning chapters of the book cover various time
> periods; Hunter/Gatherer, Farmers & Livestock Breeders, Bronze casters &
> Potters, and so on through the Viking era to the mid-medieval period. Each
> era has a small drawing assigned to it and once you get to the recipe
> chapters (one recipe per page) that picture is your only guide as to which
> era the recipe is based in. Most of the recipes are based on, or influenced
> by, the period cooking texts we are already familiar with. There are some
> oddities to them, for instance, the "Walnut Pesto" on page 46 (with the
> picture showing that it is based the 1200-1350s) uses a "large pinch of
> sugar" but doesn't specify what type of sugar. It suggests that the pesto
> would go well with fish. There is no information about which area of Europe
> the dish may have been eaten in. (The ingredient list was; walnuts, sage
> leaves, white wine, balsamic vinegar, salt, pepper, and sugar.)
>
> A later recipe, "Troll Cr?me" (based in the "seeresses and seafarers" era
> of
> 600 - 1050) has one whisking 4 cups of cranberries into a single egg white,
> then dribbling honey into the mixture. It doesn't say what the final result
> should look like, simply that you should garnish it with additional
> cranberries. There was no mention of mashing the four cups of cranberries
> before adding them to the egg white. I have no idea what sort of period
> dish
> this recipe is supposed to be.
>
>
> Hrothny
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org
>

From schneiderdan at ymail.com  Wed Mar 20 08:53:05 2013
From: schneiderdan at ymail.com (Dan Schneider)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 08:53:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Viking Age Cookbook?
In-Reply-To: <5149B4B0.80206@ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <1363794785.20615.YahooMailClassic@web162504.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

Hej!

Daniel and Hannah are probably the two main early medieval food historians in Sweden today. Their previous book "En S?s av ringa v?rde" is a translationand redaction of the Harpestrang cookbook (using both the Q and K editions)into modern Swedish. Daniel has worked as a food historian at Glimmengehus, a medieval house museum in (I think) Sk?ne, the Lofotr viking museum in Norway, and the Lejre research center in Denmark, ans well as lecturing free-lance. I don't know Hannah personally, but I know she and Daniel have collaborated for several years. There's a facebook  page for the new book: https://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/An-Early-Meal-A-Viking-Age-Cookbook-Culinary-Odyssey/416525951771056?id=416525951771056&sk=info

Dan (a different one)


--- On Wed, 3/20/13, Elise Fleming <alysk at ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> Greetings!? Found this link (which I made into TinyURL) in a Twitter >comment: http://tinyurl.com/d533hjb .
> 
> It's on someone's Facebook page and says, "A cookbook and
> culinary factbook based on what we know today about the
> Viking Age food culture. Both the recipes and the factbook
> part are based on finds, literary sources, other
> contemporary sources and experimental archaeology."
> 
> The description is given thusly: ?An Early Meal - a Viking
> Age Cookbook & Culinary Odyssey? is more than just a
> Viking Age cookbook. It is a combination of a textbook on
> Viking Age culinary practices and mouthwatering recipes
> based on archaeological finds and experimental archaeology.
> 
> The book is a result of a 15 year long collaboration between
> research and experiments of Daniel Serra, culinary
> archaeologist - experimental archaeologist and doctoral
> student - and the culinary skills and palate of Hanna
> Tunberg - foodie, sommelier and archaeologist.
> 
> The book is planned to be released by late spring and is the
> first book published by ChronoCopia Publishing."
> 
> The recipes, if any, won't be taken from period sources
> since none exist, but maybe they might be somewhat more
> "authentic" than what is done by re-enactors. Does anyone
> have further information?
> 
> Alys K.
> -- Elise Fleming
> alysk at ix.netcom.com
> alyskatharine at gmail.com
> http://damealys.medievalcookery.com/
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/8311418 at N08/sets/
> _______________________________________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org
> 

From johnnae at mac.com  Wed Mar 20 08:55:26 2013
From: johnnae at mac.com (Johnna Holloway)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 11:55:26 -0400
Subject: [Sca-cooks] fufu?
In-Reply-To: <1b954bc1.5acf.13d883279b8.Webtop.7@optonline.net>
References: <1b954bc1.5acf.13d883279b8.Webtop.7@optonline.net>
Message-ID: <FF4E7381-0EAA-4E5B-8DFB-AB903378223A@mac.com>

Fufu (variants of the name include foofoo, foufou, foutou) is a staple food of West and Central Africa.

Take a look at photos here
http://www.ghanaweb.com/GhanaHomePage/food/fufu.html

I don't know if James had it when he was in Ghana or not. He's going back to teach in June.

Johnna

On Mar 20, 2013, at 10:27 AM, Susan Nalley wrote:

> A flu-flu is the type of arrow used to shoot birds.
> The only fufu i know is a horrible joke someone told me years ago...
> Alistrina
> 
> On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 1:43 AM, Stefan li Rous wrote:
> 
>> <<< I'm trying to hunt down one of those huge African jobs (sit on the floor, with a 4' ish paddle - used to make fufu and the like) - not have much luck here in Australia tho.
>> 
>> Drakey.>>>
>> 
>> fufu? What's that? I thought it was a type of arrow used to shoot birds. Stefan

From online2much at cox.net  Wed Mar 20 09:27:10 2013
From: online2much at cox.net (Terri Morgan)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 12:27:10 -0400
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Viking Age Cookbook?
In-Reply-To: <CAKyueW_aousX-kMtu1FLsv8ViCvY9x2Vcz-xwSZHRErFr1cO=Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5149B4B0.80206@ix.netcom.com>	<002701ce2573$7e7a63e0$7b6f2ba0$@cox.net>
	<CAKyueW_aousX-kMtu1FLsv8ViCvY9x2Vcz-xwSZHRErFr1cO=Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <002101ce2587$c5d0ef20$5172cd60$@cox.net>

> Hrothny, I think you might be referring to a different book, perhaps
> with a similar title. "An Early Meal - a Viking Age Cookbook & Culinary
Odyssey"
> is not out yet.

Good gravy, I need to get to bed. You're right, I scanned the title with
tired eyes and read "A Culinary Journey Through Time" as the same darned
thing.


I'm sorry.


Hrothny


From schneiderdan at ymail.com  Wed Mar 20 09:41:32 2013
From: schneiderdan at ymail.com (Dan Schneider)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 09:41:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Viking Age Cookbook?
In-Reply-To: <002701ce2573$7e7a63e0$7b6f2ba0$@cox.net>
Message-ID: <1363797692.10647.YahooMailClassic@web162505.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

Hej Hrothny,

Actually that's a different one: the one Alys referred to isn't out quite yet, and is specific to the Viking Age.

Dan

--- On Wed, 3/20/13, Terri Morgan <online2much at cox.net> wrote:

> I own it. In fact, I was just looking at it this morning,
> skimming for ideas
> of what to serve to a bunch of Viking reenactors next month.
> Overall, I am
> not very impressed. The beginning chapters of the book cover
> various time
> periods; Hunter/Gatherer, Farmers & Livestock Breeders,
> Bronze casters &
> Potters, and so on through the Viking era to the
> mid-medieval period. Each
> era has a small drawing assigned to it and once you get to
> the recipe
> chapters (one recipe per page) that picture is your only
> guide as to which
> era the recipe is based in. Most of the recipes are based
> on, or influenced
> by, the period cooking texts we are already familiar with.
> There are some
> oddities to them, for instance, the "Walnut Pesto" on page
> 46 (with the
> picture showing that it is based the 1200-1350s) uses a
> "large pinch of
> sugar" but doesn't specify what type of sugar. It suggests
> that the pesto
> would go well with fish. There is no information about which
> area of Europe
> the dish may have been eaten in. (The ingredient list was;
> walnuts, sage
> leaves, white wine, balsamic vinegar, salt, pepper, and
> sugar.)
> 
> A later recipe, "Troll Cr?me" (based in the "seeresses and
> seafarers" era of
> 600 - 1050) has one whisking 4 cups of cranberries into a
> single egg white,
> then dribbling honey into the mixture. It doesn't say what
> the final result
> should look like, simply that you should garnish it with
> additional
> cranberries. There was no mention of mashing the four cups
> of cranberries
> before adding them to the egg white. I have no idea what
> sort of period dish
> this recipe is supposed to be.
> 
> 
> Hrothny
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org
> 

From prescotj at telusplanet.net  Wed Mar 20 10:14:59 2013
From: prescotj at telusplanet.net (James Prescott)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 11:14:59 -0600
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Is "What Kings Ate and Wizards Drank" any good?
Message-ID: <5149EE93.9020404@telusplanet.net>


Has anyone read:

http://tychebooks.com/books/what-kings-ate-and-wizards-drank/

?

Are the actual cooking-related bits any good?


Thorvald


From guenievre at erminespot.com  Wed Mar 20 11:48:13 2013
From: guenievre at erminespot.com (Guenievre de Monmarche)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 14:48:13 -0400
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Period Pretzels, yet again...
In-Reply-To: <D3406646BA7E419DBFA67EFDA4406C13@TerryPC>
References: <6f16f.31c2d9bd.3e530d91@aol.com>
	<D3F60898DA4849E391D1D8618BE4D712@TerryPC>
	<51222A22.7030909@jeffnet.org>
	<D3406646BA7E419DBFA67EFDA4406C13@TerryPC>
Message-ID: <CACXfKh5BKkvDjUQuqhG1i0suMEps4tMO3bqWUnn650rJAZe3wA@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 10:03 AM, Terry Decker <t.d.decker at att.net> wrote:

>  Bear, this may be a dumb question, but have you baked directly from the
>> ale barm? How was it different from, say, the powdered yeast you can buy at
>> the grocery? I know when I was brewing small mead, I would skim off the
>> foam and wonder if I could scoop it off and use it for bread. Never tried
>> because even then I was having serious hand/wrist issues. Haven't made
>> bread in about 15 years. I might give it a try if it was part of an
>> experiment...
>>
>> Liutgard
>> --
>>
>
> My limited experience with ale barm was that it wasn't as potent as modern
> dry active yeast, which has been carefully bred for the past 100 years to
> reduce alcohol production and increase the CO2.  As I remember it, the
> bread took about 6 hours to rise.  This was before I took copious notes on
> these kinds of experiments, so I have only memories to rely on.  I should
> be in New Mexico full time by year's end and I'm thinking about getting a
> stone crock and running up an ale pot just to test the leavening.
>
> Terry



I actually have been playing around with bread-from-fermenting beer lately,
just hadn't had time to reply to the list until now (thus the zombie
thread). I got intrigued by a quote out of that Peter Brears book mentioned
lately - Cooking and Dining in Medieval England - from page 118:

"?Since the sourness produced by these methods was unsuitable for the
finest white manchets and paindemain, they were replaced by a leaven of the
frothy yeast carefully skimmed off the top of ale around the second day of
its fermentation ... When required, a volume of it equal to one twentieth
of the white flour was mixed with salt and warm water, mixed to a batter in
the flour in the dough trough, and then processed just like the cheat
dough."

I have a Resident Brewer, and so I got to experiment. I found it made
*very* tasty bread, but there were a couple of "gotchas" that affected the
end result.

1. The first batch I tried was using a stout as the leavening, and even at
only using 1/2 cup of beer foam to 24 oz flour (plus extra water, of
course) that significantly affected the color of the bread. Here's a
picture -
http://www.erminespot.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/154128_10151787910267119_1644233747_n1.jpg-
that's with *all white flour*, and it came out looking like
half-whole-wheat. With a lighter beer - something along the lines of a
newcastle brown - this effect was lessened.

2. The yeast was far more heat sensitive than the commercial yeast I
usually work with - I usually proof bread in a briefly-heated oven,
probably around 100 degrees or a bit more, for speed. The beer yeast just
*stopped* at that temperature, but happily rose in a 65 degree house.

3. You could definitely taste a little beer in the final bread - it wasn't
necessarily identifiable as beer if you didn't know that was what you were
tasting, but it was there. I possibly could have used less beer foam and
let it rise longer to reduce that effect while still getting a high-enough
yeast population.

Overall, though, the results were good, and much better than those a friend
of mine achieved playing with "spent" beer barm.

Gueni?vre

From johnnae at mac.com  Wed Mar 20 12:17:04 2013
From: johnnae at mac.com (Johnna Holloway)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 15:17:04 -0400
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Is "What Kings Ate and Wizards Drank" any good?
In-Reply-To: <5149EE93.9020404@telusplanet.net>
References: <5149EE93.9020404@telusplanet.net>
Message-ID: <6723AF64-C9CD-4C2D-A0C4-C19952A017C3@mac.com>

Hadn't come across it before. I do see it is up on Amazon.
Doesn't seem to have been catalogued under cookery there. Does show up under
writing skills and magic and wizards. Not where I browse.

http://www.amazon.com/What-Kings-Wizards-Drank-ebook/dp/B009ZX8W3K

Johnnae

On Mar 20, 2013, at 1:14 PM, James Prescott wrote:

> Has anyone read:
> 
> http://tychebooks.com/books/what-kings-ate-and-wizards-drank/
> 
> ? Are the actual cooking-related bits any good? Thorvald

From JIMCHEVAL at aol.com  Wed Mar 20 21:28:10 2013
From: JIMCHEVAL at aol.com (JIMCHEVAL at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 00:28:10 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Period Pretzels, yet again...
Message-ID: <1df89.252d825d.3e7be65a@aol.com>

In fact that disadvantage to brewer's yeast (notably the taste of hops) was 
 one reason some Austrian bakers' associations offered a prize for a better 
yeast  - a prize won by Mautner in 1849 for what became pressed yeast. The 
result is  that most people today just think of yeast as... yeast, because 
they typically  use it in its pure form. But brewer's yeast, when it was 
simply skimmed off the  top of brewing ale, was a cocktail of various flavors. 
If you buy it today (as  many of us did when it was a dietary fad in the 
Seventies) it may taste so awful  you have to chase it with a glass of water 
(and quick), but it's probably also  pretty pure. On the other hand, if you get 
it the old way, yes, it would add  some flavor.
 
Jim  Chevallier
www.chezjim.com

Newly translated from Pierre Jean-Baptiste  Le Grand d'Aussy:
Eggs, Cheese and Butter in Old Regime France  

 
In a message dated 3/20/2013 12:20:01 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
guenievre at erminespot.com writes:

You  could definitely taste a little beer in the final  bread


From johnnae at mac.com  Thu Mar 21 10:40:47 2013
From: johnnae at mac.com (Johnna Holloway)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 13:40:47 -0400
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Grillbot OP OT
Message-ID: <B7E4C013-3C54-4FBB-9BB4-AFFD9148E79D@mac.com>

Here's the latest in kitchen equipment/gadgets that may not be needed--

THE GRILLBOT - invented by Ethan Woods -  which is advertised as "the world's first automatic grill cleaning robot."

http://www.latestgadgets.co.uk/home-garden/9251-grillbot-bbq-cleaning-robot

http://www.foodiggity.com/the-grillbot-is-like-a-roomba-for-your-grill/

It was released in January so maybe it's not an elaborate April Fools' Day joke; it just seems like it should be.

Johnnae


From t.d.decker at att.net  Thu Mar 21 13:26:38 2013
From: t.d.decker at att.net (Terry Decker)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 15:26:38 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Period Pretzels, yet again...
In-Reply-To: <CACXfKh5BKkvDjUQuqhG1i0suMEps4tMO3bqWUnn650rJAZe3wA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6f16f.31c2d9bd.3e530d91@aol.com><D3F60898DA4849E391D1D8618BE4D712@TerryPC><51222A22.7030909@jeffnet.org><D3406646BA7E419DBFA67EFDA4406C13@TerryPC>
	<CACXfKh5BKkvDjUQuqhG1i0suMEps4tMO3bqWUnn650rJAZe3wA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DF4AE3E8261E40A480278FFCBB6266BC@TerryPC>

One of the things I haven't tried and and you haven't apparently tried 
either, is washing the yeast.  Skim the froth from the active ferment and 
rinse it with repeated baths of cold water until white yeast settles out. 
The process shows up in a plantation cookbook from the early 19th Century. 
IIRC, the same cookbook discusses creating an active ferment (cream yeast) 
on potato water.

I don't recall anyone who has used lees for leaven as having stated that 
they washed out the yeast to purify it.  So such baking was done with all of 
the brewing impurities intact.

English baking was done with ale barm, which based on 16th Century usage, 
would be the active ferment of an unhopped barley malt beverage.  The ale 
might or might not have been bittered with gruit.  So you might want to try 
this with a batch of traditional unhopped ale.

Sounds like you had fun.

Bear


----- Original Message ----- 

I actually have been playing around with bread-from-fermenting beer lately,
just hadn't had time to reply to the list until now (thus the zombie
thread). I got intrigued by a quote out of that Peter Brears book mentioned
lately - Cooking and Dining in Medieval England - from page 118:

"?Since the sourness produced by these methods was unsuitable for the
finest white manchets and paindemain, they were replaced by a leaven of the
frothy yeast carefully skimmed off the top of ale around the second day of
its fermentation ... When required, a volume of it equal to one twentieth
of the white flour was mixed with salt and warm water, mixed to a batter in
the flour in the dough trough, and then processed just like the cheat
dough."

I have a Resident Brewer, and so I got to experiment. I found it made
*very* tasty bread, but there were a couple of "gotchas" that affected the
end result.

1. The first batch I tried was using a stout as the leavening, and even at
only using 1/2 cup of beer foam to 24 oz flour (plus extra water, of
course) that significantly affected the color of the bread. Here's a
picture -
http://www.erminespot.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/154128_10151787910267119_1644233747_n1.jpg-
that's with *all white flour*, and it came out looking like
half-whole-wheat. With a lighter beer - something along the lines of a
newcastle brown - this effect was lessened.

2. The yeast was far more heat sensitive than the commercial yeast I
usually work with - I usually proof bread in a briefly-heated oven,
probably around 100 degrees or a bit more, for speed. The beer yeast just
*stopped* at that temperature, but happily rose in a 65 degree house.

3. You could definitely taste a little beer in the final bread - it wasn't
necessarily identifiable as beer if you didn't know that was what you were
tasting, but it was there. I possibly could have used less beer foam and
let it rise longer to reduce that effect while still getting a high-enough
yeast population.

Overall, though, the results were good, and much better than those a friend
of mine achieved playing with "spent" beer barm.

Gueni?vre


From mistressaldyth at gmail.com  Thu Mar 21 17:44:14 2013
From: mistressaldyth at gmail.com (Deborah Hammons)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 18:44:14 -0600
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Buckwheat flour
Message-ID: <CAPPosh6JasZOFSi8cwmzRYcZbgsRd7J15gqsYAWEJWfX_Vg8cw@mail.gmail.com>

I was looking on one of "those" websites and found a couple of references
to Russian cooking with "only" buckwheat flour.  Before I make a foray into
that arena, has anyone else cooked something like bread, or piecrust using
only buckwheat flour?

Aldyth

From johnnae at mac.com  Thu Mar 21 18:58:25 2013
From: johnnae at mac.com (Johnna Holloway)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 21:58:25 -0400
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Buckwheat flour
In-Reply-To: <CAPPosh6JasZOFSi8cwmzRYcZbgsRd7J15gqsYAWEJWfX_Vg8cw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPPosh6JasZOFSi8cwmzRYcZbgsRd7J15gqsYAWEJWfX_Vg8cw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2553420A-9DDC-4164-A1D9-B305D2401ECD@mac.com>

Have used it in pancakes.

You might look at King Arthur Flour for suggestions and recipes
http://www.kingarthurflour.com/recipes/buckwheat-bread-recipe

Johnna

On Mar 21, 2013, at 8:44 PM, Deborah Hammons wrote:

> I was looking on one of "those" websites and found a couple of references
> to Russian cooking with "only" buckwheat flour.  Before I make a foray into
> that arena, has anyone else cooked something like bread, or piecrust using
> only buckwheat flour?
> 
> Aldyth

From StefanliRous at austin.rr.com  Thu Mar 21 21:31:41 2013
From: StefanliRous at austin.rr.com (Stefan li Rous)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 23:31:41 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Grillbot OP OT
Message-ID: <E2AA7406-FC55-45A3-B031-F531BD6F8B66@austin.rr.com>

I have my doubts about anything powered by only 'D' size batteries, rechargeable or not, providing enough umph to actually be effective. The idea of putting it on the grill just after you turn it off is intriguing, but since the outside, at least, is made of plastic, you probably shouldn't be to quick to do this. 

It's usually taken me a lot of hard scrubbing to clean such grills but then it is after they've cooled down.

I think Roomba is much more likely to be useful, although more expensive. Unfortunately, my house still has way too much clutter and cords and things for Roomba to be useable. :-(

Stefan

<<< Here's the latest in kitchen equipment/gadgets that may not be needed--

THE GRILLBOT - invented by Ethan Woods -  which is advertised as "the world's first automatic grill cleaning robot."

http://www.latestgadgets.co.uk/home-garden/9251-grillbot-bbq-cleaning-robot

http://www.foodiggity.com/the-grillbot-is-like-a-roomba-for-your-grill/

It was released in January so maybe it's not an elaborate April Fools' Day joke; it just seems like it should be.

Johnnae >>>

--------
THLord Stefan li Rous    Barony of Bryn Gwlad    Kingdom of Ansteorra
   Mark S. Harris           Austin, Texas          StefanliRous at austin.rr.com
http://www.linkedin.com/in/marksharris
**** See Stefan's Florilegium files at:  http://www.florilegium.org ****







From JIMCHEVAL at aol.com  Thu Mar 21 23:06:19 2013
From: JIMCHEVAL at aol.com (JIMCHEVAL at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2013 02:06:19 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Pig cheese: the final oink
Message-ID: <2ce83.1da95dfd.3e7d4edb@aol.com>

Rather than try to reason why one or the other of the two tales I cited is  
probably true or not, I decided to take the direct approach and write those 
in  question.

>From Paolo at Life in Italy:
"I just added to the end of the article the April 1st is porcorino day in  
Italy - Do you think that will be clear enough for the reader ?
_http://www.lifeinitaly.com/food/raresttuscancheese.asp_ 
(http://www.lifeinitaly.com/food/raresttuscancheese.asp) 
"
 
On the other hand, Edward Lee, mentioned in the Slate article, is certainly 
 a real person; he was on "Top Chef" and runs what is apparently a highly  
respected restaurant in Louisville:

_http://610magnolia.com/610-magnolia/_ 
(http://610magnolia.com/610-magnolia/) 

He  assures me he has indeed done this experiment and says that pig cheese 
is  actually pretty good; he also hints that there is more to come....
 
The one thing we can be fairly sure of is that no one in our period was  
milking a pig, much less making cheese with the result. Though, a little  
earlier, I wouldn't discount some decadent Roman who could have cared less  how 
many times his slaves got kicked or bitten by an irate sow.
 
Jim  Chevallier
www.chezjim.com

Newly translated from Pierre Jean-Baptiste  Le Grand d'Aussy:
Eggs, Cheese and Butter in Old Regime  France

From aruvqan at gmail.com  Fri Mar 22 08:37:38 2013
From: aruvqan at gmail.com (aruvqan)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2013 11:37:38 -0400
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Grillbot OP OT
In-Reply-To: <E2AA7406-FC55-45A3-B031-F531BD6F8B66@austin.rr.com>
References: <E2AA7406-FC55-45A3-B031-F531BD6F8B66@austin.rr.com>
Message-ID: <514C7AC2.9020303@gmail.com>

On 3/22/2013 12:31 AM, Stefan li Rous wrote:
> I have my doubts about anything powered by only 'D' size batteries, rechargeable or not, providing enough umph to actually be effective. The idea of putting it on the grill just after you turn it off is intriguing, but since the outside, at least, is made of plastic, you probably shouldn't be to quick to do this.
>
> It's usually taken me a lot of hard scrubbing to clean such grills but then it is after they've cooled down.
>
Underwhelming toy IMHO also.

I don't really scrub grills, I put them on the driveway and spray them 
down with oven cleaner and then get around to them.

I agree with the assessment of the plastic shell melting, but if the 
plastic is not coming in contact with the grill but only the metal 
scrubbing bits it may not be bad. Though this supposes that it is not 
going to be done over hot coals or remaining hot ceramic grill rocks.

From sjk3 at cornell.edu  Fri Mar 22 08:52:12 2013
From: sjk3 at cornell.edu (Sandra J. Kisner)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2013 15:52:12 +0000
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Grillbot OP OT
In-Reply-To: <514C7AC2.9020303@gmail.com>
References: <E2AA7406-FC55-45A3-B031-F531BD6F8B66@austin.rr.com>
	<514C7AC2.9020303@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <66B77324292D9C439D75C2952BFFBBB5097CCFD9@BLUPRD0412MB596.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>

Watching the thing at work, skittering around at all angles, I wonder how effective it could even be!

Sandra

-----Original Message-----
From: sca-cooks-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org [mailto:sca-cooks-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org] On Behalf Of aruvqan
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2013 11:38 AM
To: Cooks within the SCA
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Grillbot OP OT

On 3/22/2013 12:31 AM, Stefan li Rous wrote:
> I have my doubts about anything powered by only 'D' size batteries, rechargeable or not, providing enough umph to actually be effective. The idea of putting it on the grill just after you turn it off is intriguing, but since the outside, at least, is made of plastic, you probably shouldn't be to quick to do this.
>
> It's usually taken me a lot of hard scrubbing to clean such grills but then it is after they've cooled down.
>
Underwhelming toy IMHO also.

I don't really scrub grills, I put them on the driveway and spray them 
down with oven cleaner and then get around to them.

I agree with the assessment of the plastic shell melting, but if the 
plastic is not coming in contact with the grill but only the metal 
scrubbing bits it may not be bad. Though this supposes that it is not 
going to be done over hot coals or remaining hot ceramic grill rocks.
_______________________________________________
Sca-cooks mailing list
Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org



From mistressaldyth at gmail.com  Fri Mar 22 12:07:54 2013
From: mistressaldyth at gmail.com (Deborah Hammons)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2013 13:07:54 -0600
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Buckwheat flour
In-Reply-To: <2553420A-9DDC-4164-A1D9-B305D2401ECD@mac.com>
References: <CAPPosh6JasZOFSi8cwmzRYcZbgsRd7J15gqsYAWEJWfX_Vg8cw@mail.gmail.com>
	<2553420A-9DDC-4164-A1D9-B305D2401ECD@mac.com>
Message-ID: <CAPPosh76XyNsL2oR3tMyUGPvo6yY=smO+LQNkhvyuvMEX+qEAA@mail.gmail.com>

I use it half and half with whole wheat for pancakes and some bread.
Mostly wondering about the idea of using it for the dough for the pelmeni.
Bread from buckwheat flour wil just be really heavy.

Aldyth

On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 7:58 PM, Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com> wrote:

> Have used it in pancakes.
>
> You might look at King Arthur Flour for suggestions and recipes
> http://www.kingarthurflour.com/recipes/buckwheat-bread-recipe
>
> Johnna
>
> On Mar 21, 2013, at 8:44 PM, Deborah Hammons wrote:
>
> > I was looking on one of "those" websites and found a couple of references
> > to Russian cooking with "only" buckwheat flour.  Before I make a foray
> into
> > that arena, has anyone else cooked something like bread, or piecrust
> using
> > only buckwheat flour?
> >
> > Aldyth
> _______________________________________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org
>

From phlip at 99main.com  Fri Mar 22 13:38:00 2013
From: phlip at 99main.com (Saint Phlip)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2013 16:38:00 -0400
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Pig cheese: the final oink
In-Reply-To: <2ce83.1da95dfd.3e7d4edb@aol.com>
References: <2ce83.1da95dfd.3e7d4edb@aol.com>
Message-ID: <CAA3uHKwV3KbFWVGktFQLRy8D5M6he-sMXLy=MXs21Zx9K_HU+w@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 2:06 AM,  <JIMCHEVAL at aol.com> wrote:

"The one thing we can be fairly sure of is that no one in our period was
milking a pig, much less making cheese with the result. Though, a little
earlier, I wouldn't discount some decadent Roman who could have cared less  how
many times his slaves got kicked or bitten by an irate sow. "

PROBABLY they weren't milking pigs, or we'd have heard of it, but I
think it is necessary to point out that milk cows don't automatically
give up milk, they're trained to do so, and similarly a milk pig would
have to be trained as well.

I'm not pointing this out just to be annoying, but rather because I
feel it's important that city people not make assumptions based on
ignorance, as non-cooks have done with situations such as over-spicing
meats to disguise rottenness.


-- 
Saint Phlip

So, you think your data is safe?
http://www.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/01/23/schneier.google.hacking/index.html?hpt=T2

Heat it up
Hit it hard
Repent as necessary.

Priorities:

It's the smith who makes the tools, not the tools which make the smith.

.I never wanted to see anybody die, but there are a few obituary
notices I have read with pleasure. -Clarence Darrow

From aruvqan at gmail.com  Fri Mar 22 21:15:54 2013
From: aruvqan at gmail.com (aruvqan)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2013 00:15:54 -0400
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Pig cheese: the final oink
In-Reply-To: <CAA3uHKwV3KbFWVGktFQLRy8D5M6he-sMXLy=MXs21Zx9K_HU+w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2ce83.1da95dfd.3e7d4edb@aol.com>
	<CAA3uHKwV3KbFWVGktFQLRy8D5M6he-sMXLy=MXs21Zx9K_HU+w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <514D2C7A.7000809@gmail.com>

On 3/22/2013 4:38 PM, Saint Phlip wrote:
>
> PROBABLY they weren't milking pigs, or we'd have heard of it, but I
> think it is necessary to point out that milk cows don't automatically
> give up milk, they're trained to do so, and similarly a milk pig would
> have to be trained as well.
>
>
Hm, last pot bellied pig I met loved tummy rubs, so I would imagine that 
if you started with the piglet training them to roll over and get a 
tummy rub and a couple other tricks to get them accustomed to being 
handled by people, you could train them to be milked.

From JIMCHEVAL at aol.com  Fri Mar 22 21:16:40 2013
From: JIMCHEVAL at aol.com (JIMCHEVAL at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2013 00:16:40 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Pig cheese: the final oink
Message-ID: <1e983.622cd699.3e7e86a7@aol.com>

Indeed. But I believe the people most interested in all this have  
experience of both cows and pigs and so they may be making some assumptions, but  
certainly not because they are ignorant city-folk. Also, I know lots of 
stories  of pigs eating babies; somewhat less of cows doing so. This does indeed 
inflect  my own idea of their relative orneriness.
 
Otherwise, those who simply cannot get their snouts out of this particular  
trough might like to know some of the other factoids I've been finding as I 
 browse about on the general subject of pig's milk:
 
- The Egyptians thought it caused leprosy
- A 14th century doctor included it in a cure for dropsy
- A man who traveled in Afghanistan claimed the locals gave him a cheese  
which turned out to be pig cheese; and, once he got over a certain 
repugnance,  he found it pretty good.
- The Jewish philosopher claimed that, being closest to human milk (and  
apparently he wasn't far off), it was the best (presumably he ascertained this 
 without actually tasting it).
- Dolly Parton claims she once drank some directly from a pig's  teat...
 
Jim  Chevallier
www.chezjim.com

Newly translated from Pierre Jean-Baptiste  Le Grand d'Aussy:
Eggs, Cheese and Butter in Old Regime France  

 
In a message dated 3/22/2013 1:38:04 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
phlip at 99main.com writes:

milk  cows don't automatically
give up milk, they're trained to do so, and  similarly a milk pig would
have to be trained as well.

I'm not  pointing this out just to be annoying, but rather because I
feel it's  important that city people not make assumptions based  on
ignorance,


From alexbclark at pennswoods.net  Sat Mar 23 01:25:44 2013
From: alexbclark at pennswoods.net (Alexander Clark)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2013 04:25:44 -0400
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Feast for Nithgaard (State College, PA) birthday event,
	Sept. 14
Message-ID: <CAKWJ1s3T9T6dPF=a84orbn2xapV3_1xNcYT4n5pUeWwg1kYNaA@mail.gmail.com>

Greetings! My local group, the Shire of Nithgaard, has scheduled an
event for Sept. 14, and I'm to the the chief cook. The theme of the
event is birthdays, including our shire birthday (we're turning 36!),
but also including the birthday of Henry V.

So I'm planning the feast around a Henry V theme, based on flesh-day
menus from the early 15th century.

The final plan will depend on shopping, how many volunteers I have,
what's available for equipment, etc., but my dream menu would go a
little something like this:

The i course.
Venison with frumenty to potage
Viand riale to potage
Brawn with mustard
Kid
Capon
Pheasant
Pig
Broken brawn
Long fritters
Crustade
And a sotelte

The ij course.
Mawmene to potage
Blancmanger to potage
Conies
Chickens
Pigeons
Venison
Quails
Yrchouns
Blanch brawn
Pommys en gele
Fritter crispes
Payn puff
And a subtilite

There are several features of this menu that pertain to Henry V. Both
viand riale and kid appear more often on menus in or near his reign.
Brawn with mustard is first named on a menu (that I know of) for the
coronation of his bride, Katherine of Valois (presumably by
indulgence, since this was on a fish day). Yrchouns are in a category
of illusion foods (like pomme dorryse and cockatrice) most often
listed on menus in and near the time of his reign. And a gele that is
served in the last part of a course occurs more often in menus in and
before his reign, and seems to become scarce shortly thereafter.

Now I'm having fun dreaming of serving this menu. We shall see how it
works out in real life. :-)

-- 
Henry/Alex

From johnnae at mac.com  Sat Mar 23 05:55:42 2013
From: johnnae at mac.com (Johnna Holloway)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2013 08:55:42 -0400
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Feast for Nithgaard (State College,
 PA) birthday event, Sept. 14
In-Reply-To: <CAKWJ1s3T9T6dPF=a84orbn2xapV3_1xNcYT4n5pUeWwg1kYNaA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKWJ1s3T9T6dPF=a84orbn2xapV3_1xNcYT4n5pUeWwg1kYNaA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D8F62CEF-2C31-4A33-8EEE-B49E24183050@mac.com>

The October 1399 Coronation feast of Henry IV is online for comparison.
http://www.theoldfoodie.com/2006/10/coronation-of-henry-iv.html

Looks like an interesting challenge, given the number of dishes and complexity
of the menu. I would think pricing would be a concern as well as anticipating the
number of diners. And will the kitchen support such an endeavor?

Please keep us informed.

Johnnae

On Mar 23, 2013, at 4:25 AM, Alexander Clark wrote:

> Greetings! My local group, the Shire of Nithgaard, has scheduled an
> event for Sept. 14, and I'm to the the chief cook. The theme of the
> event is birthdays, including our shire birthday (we're turning 36!),
> but also including the birthday of Henry V.
> 
> So I'm planning the feast around a Henry V theme, based on flesh-day
> menus from the early 15th century. snipped for length
> 
> Now I'm having fun dreaming of serving this menu. We shall see how it
> works out in real life. :-)
> 
> -- 
> Henry/Alex
> _______________________________________________


From lstywnch at gmail.com  Sun Mar 24 12:20:43 2013
From: lstywnch at gmail.com (Valleri Collins)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 11:20:43 -0800
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Cheese making
Message-ID: <CABnRqDE-_=XN1mAXBa9g+7djffczcWQ8Lie9w2StMVRMHFLUVg@mail.gmail.com>

With all the talk of pig cheese, I decided to try my hand at cheesemaking.
The first go round of some basic Neufchatel is sitting on the stove in a
covered stainless steel pot. Any horror stories to share or words of wisdom
to impart?

From prescotj at telusplanet.net  Sun Mar 24 12:24:24 2013
From: prescotj at telusplanet.net (James Prescott)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 13:24:24 -0600
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Cheese making
In-Reply-To: <CABnRqDE-_=XN1mAXBa9g+7djffczcWQ8Lie9w2StMVRMHFLUVg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABnRqDE-_=XN1mAXBa9g+7djffczcWQ8Lie9w2StMVRMHFLUVg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <514F52E8.2000502@telusplanet.net>


Blessed are the cheesemakers.



On 2013-03-24 13:20, Valleri Collins wrote:
> With all the talk of pig cheese, I decided to try my hand at cheesemaking.
> The first go round of some basic Neufchatel is sitting on the stove in a
> covered stainless steel pot. Any horror stories to share or words of wisdom
> to impart?
> _______________________________________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org
>

From susanrlin at gmail.com  Sun Mar 24 14:28:15 2013
From: susanrlin at gmail.com (Susan Lin)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 15:28:15 -0600
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Cheese making
In-Reply-To: <CABnRqDE-_=XN1mAXBa9g+7djffczcWQ8Lie9w2StMVRMHFLUVg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABnRqDE-_=XN1mAXBa9g+7djffczcWQ8Lie9w2StMVRMHFLUVg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHkO8TQOonp_pTZSEU2OZT8eTepfjbgAQFcC-e9mO9j3cKu-GA@mail.gmail.com>

I've made mozzarella, ricotta, paneer and once some goat cheese.  I wish
you luck and good curds.

Shoshanah

On Sun, Mar 24, 2013 at 1:20 PM, Valleri Collins <lstywnch at gmail.com> wrote:

> With all the talk of pig cheese, I decided to try my hand at cheesemaking.
> The first go round of some basic Neufchatel is sitting on the stove in a
> covered stainless steel pot. Any horror stories to share or words of wisdom
> to impart?
>
>

From 4fooles.matters at gmail.com  Sun Mar 24 14:55:45 2013
From: 4fooles.matters at gmail.com (Crandall)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 16:55:45 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Cheese making
In-Reply-To: <514F52E8.2000502@telusplanet.net>
References: <CABnRqDE-_=XN1mAXBa9g+7djffczcWQ8Lie9w2StMVRMHFLUVg@mail.gmail.com>
	<514F52E8.2000502@telusplanet.net>
Message-ID: <CAE6SAR0nDe9cvGsOTGC1v9CG5b_agM_v0aFnUKuqaKSOYKrgUw@mail.gmail.com>

Everything needs to be clean to the point of sterility.
Anything less will spawn colorful molds that explode with a variety of
smells that rival a sewage dump.


> On 2013-03-24 13:20, Valleri Collins wrote:
>
>> With all the talk of pig cheese, I decided to try my hand at cheesemaking.
>> The first go round of some basic Neufchatel is sitting on the stove in a
>> covered stainless steel pot. Any horror stories to share or words of
>> wisdom
>> to impart?
>> ______________________________**_________________
>> Sca-cooks mailing list
>> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
>> http://lists.ansteorra.org/**listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-**ansteorra.org<http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org>
>>
>>  ______________________________**_________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/**listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-**ansteorra.org<http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org>
>



-- 
One's sense of honor is the only thing that does not grow old, and the last
pleasure, when one is worn out with age, is not, as the poet said, making
money, but having the respect of one's fellow men.
-Thucydides
When you face a liar, look not first at the lie itself, but try hard to
learn more of the liar and reason out just why he tells such a falsehood
before you render judgment upon him. And if you find that liar is motivated
by malice and spite, then render that judgment which causes his doom.

From dama.antonia at gmail.com  Sun Mar 24 16:11:51 2013
From: dama.antonia at gmail.com (Dama Antonia)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 12:11:51 +1300
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Cheese making
In-Reply-To: <CAE6SAR0nDe9cvGsOTGC1v9CG5b_agM_v0aFnUKuqaKSOYKrgUw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABnRqDE-_=XN1mAXBa9g+7djffczcWQ8Lie9w2StMVRMHFLUVg@mail.gmail.com>
	<514F52E8.2000502@telusplanet.net>
	<CAE6SAR0nDe9cvGsOTGC1v9CG5b_agM_v0aFnUKuqaKSOYKrgUw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <514F8837.1030406@gmail.com>

On 25/03/2013 10:55 a.m., Crandall wrote:
> Everything needs to be clean to the point of sterility.
> Anything less will spawn colorful molds that explode with a variety of
> smells that rival a sewage dump.
>


+++Out Of Cheese Error ???????+++ Redo from Start

-- 
Antonia di Benedetto Calvo
----------------------------------------------
Dulce et decorum est pro patria pavlovam coxi.


From selene at earthlink.net  Sun Mar 24 18:53:28 2013
From: selene at earthlink.net (Susan Fox)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 18:53:28 -0700
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Cheese making
In-Reply-To: <514F8837.1030406@gmail.com>
References: <CABnRqDE-_=XN1mAXBa9g+7djffczcWQ8Lie9w2StMVRMHFLUVg@mail.gmail.com>
	<514F52E8.2000502@telusplanet.net>
	<CAE6SAR0nDe9cvGsOTGC1v9CG5b_agM_v0aFnUKuqaKSOYKrgUw@mail.gmail.com>
	<514F8837.1030406@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <514FAE18.3030007@earthlink.net>

It's Cheese Week isn't it?   Cheese classes today at Collegium Caidis, 
more next weekend at the West Coast Culinary Symposium.  I guess that's 
springtime for you.

The other thing you need is Good Milk.  Raw is best, if you can get it.  
Pasteurized will work for soft cheese like mozzarella. Do not even try 
to use "Ultra Pasteurized", the proteins are so broken down by the 
hotter, longer process that they can't form curds effectively.  Been 
there, tried to do that.

One of my heraldry clients yesterday said that her mother will be 
breeding her mare next year and there will be mare's milk for koumiss 
experiments.  More when I know more.

Also:  kudos for the Pratchettry.

Cheers,
Selene



On 3/24/13 4:11 PM, Dama Antonia wrote:
> On 25/03/2013 10:55 a.m., Crandall wrote:
>> Everything needs to be clean to the point of sterility.
>> Anything less will spawn colorful molds that explode with a variety of
>> smells that rival a sewage dump.
>>
>
>
> +++Out Of Cheese Error ???????+++ Redo from Start
>


From JIMCHEVAL at aol.com  Sun Mar 24 19:01:43 2013
From: JIMCHEVAL at aol.com (JIMCHEVAL at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 22:01:43 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Cheese making
Message-ID: <b867.6a2bd600.3e810a06@aol.com>

Or worse.

When I made cheese many, many years ago, I read up on it  first and one 
apparently serious source said one of the "wild" cultures that can  grow on 
milk was so virulent a few drops could poison the water supply.
 
In general I think anything that involves inviting random life forms  to 
land should be approached with respect.
 
Jim  Chevallier
_www.chezjim.com_ (http://www.chezjim.com/) 

A  History of Coffee and Other Refreshments in Early Modern France 
by  Pierre Le Grand d'Aussy  

 
In a message dated 3/24/2013 6:53:32 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
selene at earthlink.net writes:

> On  25/03/2013 10:55 a.m., Crandall wrote:
>> Everything needs to be  clean to the point of sterility.
>> Anything less will spawn colorful  molds that explode with a variety of
>> smells that rival a sewage  dump.



From rgiles at centurytel.net  Sun Mar 24 20:23:13 2013
From: rgiles at centurytel.net (Rikke D. Giles)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 20:23:13 -0700
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Cheese making
In-Reply-To: <CAHkO8TQOonp_pTZSEU2OZT8eTepfjbgAQFcC-e9mO9j3cKu-GA@mail.gmail.com>
	(from susanrlin@gmail.com on Sun Mar 24 14:28:15 2013)
Message-ID: <1364181795.1514.0@rose>

Greetings,

I was slated to teach a cheese class at West Coast Culinary Symposium 
next week.  Unfortunately, my milking goats thought different and have 
the temerity to be scheduled to give birth around then.  So I'll be 
staying home doing farm stuff.  

Anyway, tips I would give to a beginner:  
Keep it clean: clean milk, extra clean equipment, extra clean kitchen, 
clean water, clean clothing, clean dairy maid.  They knew this in 
period too, Markham says the dairy should be as 'clean as a Prince's 
bedroom'.  Heh.  Others advise similarly.

Use the very best milk you can get.  If you can get it raw and fresh 
from the animal, that's the best (assuming it's milked cleanly).  
Having said that, I've used every type of 'freshness' from still warm 
from the animal to a week or 10 days old and raw, to ultra-pasteurized 
and homogenized.  The only failures to 'make' were with the ultra-
pasteurized milk.

You'll fail from time to time.  Failures can be good.  They teach.  
Most of mine I've eaten a bit, just to see.  Never gotten food 
poisoning.  Have had an immediate vomit reaction from the flavor.  The 
typical failure (for me) is when the cheese 'blows' (expands in size).  
It can blow quite quickly while draining or under pressure from stray 
yeasts.  It can blow after pressing from e. coli (usually NOT the 
poisonous kind).  Both will make the cheese smell mighty fine, and 
taste horrendous.  Swiss cheese is a cheese with desired 'blowing' in 
which the propionic bacteria create gas which makes the holes in the 
cheese.  

You can make simple molded cheeses using clean styrofoam cups in which 
you've punched holes with a super clean nail.  It's not hard to move up 
to pressed cheeses, but... the learning curve to make a really good 
pressed cheese with a natural rind is pretty high.  Not because it's 
complicated, but because it takes a long time to get familiar with the 
milk, the seasons, what your husband's instance on baking fresh bread, 
your water source, your bacteria, etc, do to the rind and the aging.  
I've been doing this 8 or 9 years now, and I'm finally making really 
really good natural rinded long aged cheeses.

Good luck and have fun!  

Aelianora de Wyntringham
Barony of Dragon's Laire, An Tir

PS If anyone wants a personal version of the class I was going to teach 
at Culinary Symposium, let me know.  I also run a fairly popular cheese 
making demo at June Faire in Kitsap County, WA (first weekend in June) 
and will be teaching cheese at another event in August if anyone is 
interested.

From JIMCHEVAL at aol.com  Sun Mar 24 21:50:42 2013
From: JIMCHEVAL at aol.com (JIMCHEVAL at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 00:50:42 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Cheese making
Message-ID: <d844.6136da4f.3e8131a2@aol.com>

"According to Li?baut [1535-1596], the people of  Auvergne used the most 
meticulous and the most careful cleanliness in making  their cheeses. They 
took their care, he says, to the point of only using  children of fourteen, 
very neat and very healthy."
Pierre Jean-Baptiste Le  Grand d'Aussy: Eggs, Cheese and Butter in Old 
Regime France

Jim  Chevallier
www.chezjim.com



In a message dated 3/24/2013  8:23:24 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, 
rgiles at centurytel.net writes:
They knew  this in period too, 


From StefanliRous at austin.rr.com  Sun Mar 24 22:59:51 2013
From: StefanliRous at austin.rr.com (Stefan li Rous)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 00:59:51 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Cheese making
Message-ID: <462FE5BF-3E02-4741-A420-8E8AC7613D77@austin.rr.com>

<<< With all the talk of pig cheese, I decided to try my hand at cheesemaking.
The first go round of some basic Neufchatel is sitting on the stove in a
covered stainless steel pot. Any horror stories to share or words of wisdom
to impart? >>>

For a lot of the discussion that we've had over the years on cheese, see the FOOD-DAIRY section of the Florilegium. Here are a few examples:
cheese-msg (205K) 5/17/10 Medieval cheese. Recipes.
http://www.florilegium.org/files/FOOD-DAIRY/cheese-msg.html

cheesemaking-msg (208K) 12/15/11 Comments and info. on cheesemaking. Recipes.
http://www.florilegium.org/files/FOOD-DAIRY/cheesemaking-msg.html

whey-cheeses-msg (32K) 6/ 1/06 Cheeses such as ricotta made from the liquid
left after making other cheeses.
http://www.florilegium.org/files/FOOD-DAIRY/whey-cheeses-msg.html

Aged-Cheese-art (25K) 8/31/10 "Aged Cheese" as taught by Hildegard filia
Vulframn.
http://www.florilegium.org/files/FOOD-DAIRY/Aged-Cheese-art.html

bag-cheeses-art (18K) 9/ 5/05 "Making Simple Bag Cheeses / Cheese in
Period" by Lord Jakys the Chesemonger.
http://www.florilegium.org/files/FOOD-DAIRY/bag-cheeses-art.html

fresh-cheeses-msg (70K) 1/ 1/11 Fresh cheeses such as cream cheese and
cottage cheese. Non-aged cheeses.
http://www.florilegium.org/files/FOOD-DAIRY/fresh-cheeses-msg.html

Almost always made with store-bought cheese, but an SCA favorite:
cheese-goo-msg (44K) 10/31/06 Digby's Savory Tosted cheese. melted cheese.
http://www.florilegium.org/files/FOOD-DAIRY/cheese-goo-msg.html

I hope this gives you some useful info to work with.

Stefan
--------
THLord Stefan li Rous    Barony of Bryn Gwlad    Kingdom of Ansteorra
   Mark S. Harris           Austin, Texas          StefanliRous at austin.rr.com
http://www.linkedin.com/in/marksharris
**** See Stefan's Florilegium files at:  http://www.florilegium.org ****







From StefanliRous at austin.rr.com  Sun Mar 24 23:07:39 2013
From: StefanliRous at austin.rr.com (Stefan li Rous)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 01:07:39 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Cheese making
Message-ID: <290FADC8-9053-4907-902E-30DB433ADB1A@austin.rr.com>

Selene said:
<<< The other thing you need is Good Milk.  Raw is best, if you can get it. >>>

raw-milk-msg (16K) 5/20/12 Finding and using raw milk.
http://www.florilegium.org/files/FOOD-DAIRY/raw-milk-msg.html

<<< One of my heraldry clients yesterday said that her mother will be 
breeding her mare next year and there will be mare's milk for koumiss 
experiments.  More when I know more. >>>

kumiss-msg (70K) 1/18/08 Mongol drink made from mare's milk.
http://www.florilegium.org/files/BEVERAGES/kumiss-msg.html

I have also gotten a very good, long, article from our illustrious Baron Drackey on the history of kumiss and I will get it online as soon as I can. If anyone is particularly interested, let me know and I'll love that up in the schedule.

Stefan
--------
THLord Stefan li Rous    Barony of Bryn Gwlad    Kingdom of Ansteorra
   Mark S. Harris           Austin, Texas          StefanliRous at austin.rr.com
http://www.linkedin.com/in/marksharris
**** See Stefan's Florilegium files at:  http://www.florilegium.org ****







From StefanliRous at austin.rr.com  Sun Mar 24 23:16:44 2013
From: StefanliRous at austin.rr.com (Stefan li Rous)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 01:16:44 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Cheese making
Message-ID: <CEA0176B-E819-405B-A00E-E3E187B3F6DC@austin.rr.com>

Greetings Aelianora,

Did you create a handout for your class? Sometimes these can make great additions to the Florilegium. My standard policy is that the copyright remains with the author and I'll accept updates at any time.

Stefan
(I'm posting this instead of just emailing it, as a gentle reminder to others that they can help their teaching reach an even wider circle by letting me publish their work.)
--------
Aelianora de Wyntringham
Barony of Dragon's Laire, An Tir

PS If anyone wants a personal version of the class I was going to teach 
at Culinary Symposium, let me know.  I also run a fairly popular cheese 
making demo at June Faire in Kitsap County, WA (first weekend in June) 
and will be teaching cheese at another event in August if anyone is 
interested.

--------
THLord Stefan li Rous    Barony of Bryn Gwlad    Kingdom of Ansteorra
   Mark S. Harris           Austin, Texas          StefanliRous at austin.rr.com
http://www.linkedin.com/in/marksharris
**** See Stefan's Florilegium files at:  http://www.florilegium.org ****







From alexbclark at pennswoods.net  Mon Mar 25 00:36:42 2013
From: alexbclark at pennswoods.net (Alexander Clark)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 03:36:42 -0400
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Feast for Nithgaard (State College,
 PA) birthday event, Sept. 14
Message-ID: <CAKWJ1s0GF5mbXpAQwskbpJjF5Dze8XWeg3fF7xrw9agcwaZk2A@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for the link. Always interesting to see what glosses people come up with.

I have doubts or questions about some of the glosses in this version
of the menu.

"Viaund Ryal. (A soup of almond milk, wine, and spices)": There are
several recipes (from sources written not so long before or after this
feast) based on wine without almond milk, so I doubt that this item
could be identified as an almond milk version. And this tends to be a
thick potage, so I doubt that it is well described as a soup.

"Teste de senglere enarme. (Boar's head with tusks)": I'd be
interested to know how "enarme" can be found to mean "with tusks". My
understanding is that "senglere" means "singular", i. e. a lone pig,
and only the adult male (who also has the big tusks) prefers to spend
much of the year alone. So I'm not sure the tusks would have been
worthy of comment. OTOH ISTM that "enarme(d)" may refer to larding.

"Graund chare. (Large roasts)": I don't know of the evidence that this
should be roasted rather than boiled in accordance with the Viandier.

"Capoun de haut grece. (Capons, larded)": I thought that capons were
fatty from being fattened, and it was the lean meats that were larded.

"Crustade Lumbarde. (A sort of savoury custard pie . . .)": The
recipes in Austin strike me as being sweet and not savory.

"Leche lumbarde. (A paste of dates . . .)": Harleian 279 has one like
this, followed immediately by another without dates. I don't think the
item on the menu can be identified as one or the other.

"Blaundesorye. (A white soup)": As with the Viaund Ryal, I think that
this would have been rather thick to be called a soup.

"Pome dorreng. (Meatballs, cooked in a golden batter)": I think that
these were more likely coated with a green batter.

"Doucettys. (Small cheesecakes)": Leche frys may be cheesecakes, but
doucettys don't tend to contain cheese. I don't know one that does.

"Egle. (Hedgehog??)": I don't know why one would guess that this would
be like a hedgehog or yrchoun; ISTM that it may well be an illusion
food, but more likely depicting an eagle.

For another menu to compare, there's the "Conuiuium Johannis
Chaundelere, Episcopi Sarum" on pp. 60?1 in Austin, from about the
middle of the reign of Henry V. But like many surviving menus it's
another three course menu. Harl. 279 also has a few two course menus
from early in the reign of Henry VI.

http://quod.lib.umich.edu/c/cme/CookBk?rgn=main;view=fulltext

-- 
Henry/Alex

On Sat, 23 Mar 2013 08:55:42 -0400, Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com> said:
> The October 1399 Coronation feast of Henry IV is online for comparison.
> http://www.theoldfoodie.com/2006/10/coronation-of-henry-iv.html
>
> Looks like an interesting challenge, given the number of dishes and complexity
> of the menu. I would think pricing would be a concern as well as anticipating the
> number of diners. And will the kitchen support such an endeavor?
>
> Please keep us informed.
>
> Johnnae
>
> On Mar 23, 2013, at 4:25 AM, Alexander Clark wrote:
>
> > Greetings! My local group, the Shire of Nithgaard, has scheduled an
> > event for Sept. 14, and I'm to the the chief cook. The theme of the
> > event is birthdays, including our shire birthday (we're turning 36!),
> > but also including the birthday of Henry V.
> >
> > So I'm planning the feast around a Henry V theme, based on flesh-day
> > menus from the early 15th century. snipped for length
> >
> > Now I'm having fun dreaming of serving this menu. We shall see how it
> > works out in real life. :-)
> >
> > --
> > Henry/Alex

From johnnae at mac.com  Mon Mar 25 04:00:34 2013
From: johnnae at mac.com (Johnna Holloway)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 07:00:34 -0400
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Feast for Nithgaard (State College,
 PA) birthday event, Sept. 14
In-Reply-To: <CAKWJ1s0GF5mbXpAQwskbpJjF5Dze8XWeg3fF7xrw9agcwaZk2A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKWJ1s0GF5mbXpAQwskbpJjF5Dze8XWeg3fF7xrw9agcwaZk2A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0BE9AFA6-6705-47C8-A395-F7352DBA653E@mac.com>

It's the work of Janet Clarkson and dates from 2006. She leaves off the definitions when she included this menu in the two volume Menus from History. I put it up because The Old Foodie version was an accessible version that I didn't need to retype. I don't know if I'll have time to look these over or not, as I have three articles due this week.

Johnnae

On Mar 25, 2013, at 3:36 AM, Alexander Clark wrote:

> Thanks for the link. Always interesting to see what glosses people come up with.
> 
> I have doubts or questions about some of the glosses in this version
> of the menu.snipped
> For another menu to compare, there's the "Conuiuium Johannis
> Chaundelere, Episcopi Sarum" on pp. 60?1 in Austin, from about the
> middle of the reign of Henry V. But like many surviving menus it's
> another three course menu. Harl. 279 also has a few two course menus
> from early in the reign of Henry VI.
> 
> http://quod.lib.umich.edu/c/cme/CookBk?rgn=main;view=fulltext
> 
> -- 
> Henry/Alex
> 
> On Sat, 23 Mar 2013 08:55:42 -0400, Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com> said:
>> The October 1399 Coronation feast of Henry IV is online for comparison.
>> http://www.theoldfoodie.com/2006/10/coronation-of-henry-iv.html

From mjloidolt at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 25 04:49:26 2013
From: mjloidolt at yahoo.com (Marcus Loidolt)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 04:49:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] For more cheese
In-Reply-To: <mailman.187313.1364187044.34820.sca-cooks-ansteorra.org@lists.ansteorra.org>
Message-ID: <1364212166.76409.YahooMailClassic@web140806.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

Benedicte,
Check out Medieval Cheese Forum on Facebook and YahooGroups...it is run by Abbess Waldetrudis von Metten, a Midrealm Laurel for Cheesemaking..

Johann

www.facebook.com/Marcus Loidolt

"Let Charity be your hallmark and model for all you do,

if it is not loving, don't do it, it it is loving,

let nothing stop you from doing whatever is needed!"

(St. John Neumann)

"Have no fear or doubt anything and everything you give in this life will be paid back ahundred fold in the next"

--- On Sun, 3/24/13, sca-cooks-request at lists.ansteorra.org <sca-cooks-request at lists.ansteorra.org> wrote:

From: sca-cooks-request at lists.ansteorra.org <sca-cooks-request at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Sca-cooks Digest, Vol 83, Issue 34
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
Date: Sunday, March 24, 2013, 11:50 PM

Send Sca-cooks mailing list submissions to
??? sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Sca-cooks digest..."
Today's Topics:

???1. Cheese making (Valleri Collins)
???2. Re: Cheese making (James Prescott)
???3. Re: Cheese making (Susan Lin)
???4. Re: Cheese making (Crandall)
???5. Re: Cheese making (Dama Antonia)
???6. Re: Cheese making (Susan Fox)
???7. Re: Cheese making (JIMCHEVAL at aol.com)
???8. Re: Cheese making (Rikke D. Giles)
???9. Re: Cheese making (JIMCHEVAL at aol.com)
_______________________________________________
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From JIMCHEVAL at aol.com  Mon Mar 25 07:16:24 2013
From: JIMCHEVAL at aol.com (JIMCHEVAL at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 10:16:24 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Feast for Nithgaard (State College,
	PA) birthday event, Sept....
Message-ID: <2f115.5e60401e.3e81b637@aol.com>

I would second most of the points raised here. I would just add that a  
simple literal translation would avoid these issues in some cases. However a  
capon got to be "very fatty" (literally, high in grease or fat), nothing in 
the  phrase says anything about it's being larded; "graund chare" I take to 
mean  "large meats" (usually the bigger quadrapeds); they might well have 
been cooked  in different ways, though usually roasts are labeled as such. Etc.
 
Jim  Chevallier
_www.chezjim.com_ (http://www.chezjim.com/) 

A  History of Coffee and Other Refreshments in Early Modern France 
by  Pierre Le Grand d'Aussy  

 
In a message dated 3/25/2013 12:36:47 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
alexbclark at pennswoods.net writes:

"Graund  chare. (Large roasts)": I don't know of the evidence that this
should be  roasted rather than boiled in accordance with the Viandier.

"Capoun de  haut grece. (Capons, larded)": I thought that capons were
fatty from being  fattened, and it was the lean meats that were  larded.



From selene at earthlink.net  Mon Mar 25 07:40:05 2013
From: selene at earthlink.net (Susan Fox)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 07:40:05 -0700
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Cheese making
In-Reply-To: <1364181795.1514.0@rose>
References: <1364181795.1514.0@rose>
Message-ID: <515061C5.50905@earthlink.net>

Well, boo hiss.  Congratulations on your new Kids of course, but know 
that you are much missed.  Ever had a hankering to visit Southern 
California?  You will be given royal treatment, I can promise you that.  
Thank you for the tips, I will add those to my files on the subject.

Cheers,
Selene Colfox

On 3/24/2013 8:23 PM, Rikke D. Giles wrote:
> Greetings,
>
> I was slated to teach a cheese class at West Coast Culinary Symposium
> next week.  Unfortunately, my milking goats thought different and have
> the temerity to be scheduled to give birth around then.  So I'll be
> staying home doing farm stuff.


From donnaegreen at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 25 08:28:11 2013
From: donnaegreen at yahoo.com (Donna Green)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 08:28:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Cheese making
In-Reply-To: <mailman.187314.1364187044.34820.sca-cooks-ansteorra.org@lists.ansteorra.org>
Message-ID: <1364225291.92956.YahooMailClassic@web140903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>


Aelianora congrats on the livestock, but oh poo about missing the Symposium. I wanted to chat you up about cheesey stuff. I started my 29th batch of aged cheese this weekend.

In addition to the other advice, I'd say take good notes. I have my cheese notebook where I keep track of when, what, how warm, various other things so when something turns out yummy a couple of months down the road, I can remember how I got there.

Just to brag a bit, the cheese I made for PPFIII turned out very yummy. Mistress Eibhlinn (the cheese goddess) said it was good. It was a mixed milk (cow and goat milk with sheep yogurt) cheese that was 6 weeks old when we ate it.

Aelianora, to follow up Selene's comment, perhaps you can try for next year's Symposium in CAID. Also, if you'd like to have a cheesey day at the Cooks Play Date at the West An Tir war, please let me know ... I'm the coordinator for the play date.

Juana Isabella
West

> Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 20:23:13 -0700
> From: "Rikke D. Giles" <rgiles at centurytel.net>
> To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Cheese making
> Greetings,
> 
> I was slated to teach a cheese class at West Coast Culinary
> Symposium 
> next week.? Unfortunately, my milking goats thought
> different and have 
> the temerity to be scheduled to give birth around
> then.? So I'll be 
> staying home doing farm stuff.? 
> 
> Aelianora de Wyntringham
> Barony of Dragon's Laire, An Tir


From the.red.ross at gmail.com  Mon Mar 25 09:41:38 2013
From: the.red.ross at gmail.com (Stephanie Ross)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 12:41:38 -0400
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Cheese making
Message-ID: <CALE-c-0q9=kQUDGEdUYqk6TjfHjZ-seCFoNqnhQm-A0myCnvXg@mail.gmail.com>

An interesting link I found checking out other's poudre fort recipes. It's
a SCAdian Medieval Cuisine site on Google Plus that includes class
handouts. If it's been mentioned here before I apologize for being
redundant.
https://sites.google.com/site/medievalcuisine/favorites/cheese-making

AEschwynne
-- 
Et si omnes ego non.

From the.red.ross at gmail.com  Mon Mar 25 10:23:57 2013
From: the.red.ross at gmail.com (Stephanie Ross)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 13:23:57 -0400
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Cheese making
In-Reply-To: <CALE-c-0q9=kQUDGEdUYqk6TjfHjZ-seCFoNqnhQm-A0myCnvXg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALE-c-0q9=kQUDGEdUYqk6TjfHjZ-seCFoNqnhQm-A0myCnvXg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALE-c-1QkRbjZDHZ9zbLcBNjjLvhMO2J2fLavk19BiWNxCAsvg@mail.gmail.com>

I hadn't seen this mentioned yet, so here you go -

Medieval Cheese Forum http://medievalcheese.blogspot.com/

AEschwynne

From StefanliRous at austin.rr.com  Mon Mar 25 14:58:14 2013
From: StefanliRous at austin.rr.com (Stefan li Rous)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 16:58:14 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] poudre fort
Message-ID: <FE3AAFC5-3133-4A58-8131-6CAC1A1C145A@austin.rr.com>

<<< An interesting link I found checking out other's poudre fort recipes.>>>

So, what did you find in your search of poudre fort recipes?

I think everything I have on them is in this file in the PLANTS, HERBS AND SPICES section of the Florilegium, but of course additional info is always useful.
spice-mixes-msg (104K) 3/ 1/09 Period spice mixtures. Poudre Forte, Douce.
http://www.florilegium.org/files/PLANTS/spice-mixes-msg.html

<<< It's
a SCAdian Medieval Cuisine site on Google Plus that includes class
handouts. If it's been mentioned here before I apologize for being
redundant. >>>

Don't worry about being redundant. We have people join and leave the list all the time, and those new folks might not have seen it previously.

Stefan

--------
THLord Stefan li Rous    Barony of Bryn Gwlad    Kingdom of Ansteorra
   Mark S. Harris           Austin, Texas          StefanliRous at austin.rr.com
http://www.linkedin.com/in/marksharris
**** See Stefan's Florilegium files at:  http://www.florilegium.org ****







From StefanliRous at austin.rr.com  Mon Mar 25 18:19:57 2013
From: StefanliRous at austin.rr.com (Stefan li Rous)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 20:19:57 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] [MR] Luttrell Psalter Film
Message-ID: <511569C9-C895-47E9-9C18-4BCCBD644B56@austin.rr.com>

Here is a wonderful film mentioned on the Atlantia list. It really isn't a movie, as there isn't a plot. But it is a very good film based on the Lutterell Psalter showing various scenes through out the years seasons.

It is a bit off topic for this list, although it does have some nice period milking and beekeeping scenes. 

I think this film, either from the DVD, or even the online video,  would be a great addition to a Newcomer's Night or even a general SCA movie night if added to some other period-time movie. It is only 20 minutes.

I also wonder if small snippets of something like the PP Feasts could be used to create a short film like this. Or are there still a lot of mundanity at those feasts which would be difficult to hide, even if you only filmed some snippets?

Stefan
--------

Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 12:25:29 +0000
From: "Groff, Garth (ggg9y)" <ggg9y at virginia.edu>
To: "isenfir at virginia.edu" <isenfir at virginia.edu>,
     "atlantia at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org"
     <atlantia at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org>
Subject: [MR] Luttrell Psalter Film

Yesterday at our 4th Sunday activity I was discussing the Luttrell Psalter film with some of our new friends who are just getting started with costuming. This film is a wonderful resource for Scadians, and a delight to watch even if you don't do early 1300s English. It uses re-enactors and authentic locations around England to recreate scenes of everyday life from the margins of the psalter, and was carefully researched for accuracy. The complete film (20 minutes) is available online at:http://www.wagscreen.co.uk/site/lp-news.php .

If you visit the web site, note the pull-down menu for "The Luttrell Psalter Film" near the top of the page. This provides links to sub-pages with discussions on the costume, props, locations, and other topics of interest. Of special note is a page by the costumer: http://periodwardrobe.wordpress.com/2010/12/31/the-luttrell-psalter-film/ . Also notice the links to various museums where the film was made, down the list of sponsors on the right hand side.

I was so enchanted by this whole project, that I bought a DVD of the film. It is much better on a larger screen.

This is a site which could keep a Scadian busy for hours.

Lord Mungo Napier, The Archer of Mallard Lodge

--------
THLord Stefan li Rous    Barony of Bryn Gwlad    Kingdom of Ansteorra
  Mark S. Harris           Austin, Texas          StefanliRous at austin.rr.com
http://www.linkedin.com/in/marksharris
**** See Stefan's Florilegium files at:  http://www.florilegium.org ****

From the.red.ross at gmail.com  Tue Mar 26 13:25:21 2013
From: the.red.ross at gmail.com (Stephanie Ross)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2013 16:25:21 -0400
Subject: [Sca-cooks] poudre fort
Message-ID: <CALE-c-0xZmCG7+HD5bVaUJukR4RDpYKDGAeivQCXd97FaKbUGw@mail.gmail.com>

Stefan wrote:

 <<So, what did you find in your search of poudre fort recipes?

I think everything I have on them is in this file in the PLANTS, HERBS AND
SPICES section of the Florilegium, but of course additional info is always
useful.
spice-mixes-msg (104K) 3/ 1/09 Period spice mixtures. Poudre Forte, Douce.
http://www.florilegium.org/files/PLANTS/spice-mixes-msg.html>>

<<< It's
a SCAdian Medieval Cuisine site on Google Plus that includes class
handouts. If it's been mentioned here before I apologize for being
redundant. >>>

<<Don't worry about being redundant. We have people join and leave the list
all the time, and those new folks might not have seen it previously.>>

I did think of you for that link Stefan, actually. I figured you'd scarf
the class handouts if they aren't already in the Florilegium. BTW. googling
"poudre fort" brings up the Florilegium at 7th in the rankings :)

In the comments section of this page
http://www.theoldfoodie.com/2006/10/chaucers-cook.html there is a recipe
for a poudre fort that the lady cooks with mundanely, and it looked good.
Don't care a whole lot for this site though. The Old Foodie is rather
ignorant about medieval stuff, although she tries. I did enjoy some of her
posts regarding recent history, like what they ate in the Kennedy White
House.  I haven't made this version of poudre fort yet, although I do have
everything to make it. I might turn it into a season salt to use at feast.

CelticHearthCook said...

I cook with my Powder Forte.

My personal redaction is more peppery than most:
4 parts tellicherry black pepper
2 part grains of paradise
2 part long pepper
1/3 part each galangal, clove and mace
optional: 1 part cubebs

The soft backround of the sweeter aromatic spices make this blend
table-shaker worthy.

I use this blend in pates replacing Quatre' Espice. It's absolutley
delicious spinkled over any meat before (and after) roasting. Adds an
exotic touch to salads. I use it in place of regular pepper in many pickles
and sauces such as BBQ, sweet chili salsas and warm fruit sauces. It is
particularly good with fruits.

-- 
Et si omnes ego non.

From euriol at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 26 14:21:58 2013
From: euriol at yahoo.com (Euriol of Lothian)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2013 14:21:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Cheese making
In-Reply-To: <CALE-c-0q9=kQUDGEdUYqk6TjfHjZ-seCFoNqnhQm-A0myCnvXg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALE-c-0q9=kQUDGEdUYqk6TjfHjZ-seCFoNqnhQm-A0myCnvXg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1364332918.65328.YahooMailNeo@web121504.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Glad you found my website useful.


?
Euriol


________________________________
 From: Stephanie Ross <the.red.ross at gmail.com>
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org 
Sent: Monday, March 25, 2013 12:41 PM
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Cheese making
 
An interesting link I found checking out other's poudre fort recipes. It's
a SCAdian Medieval Cuisine site on Google Plus that includes class
handouts. If it's been mentioned here before I apologize for being
redundant.
https://sites.google.com/site/medievalcuisine/favorites/cheese-making

AEschwynne
-- 
Et si omnes ego non.
_______________________________________________
Sca-cooks mailing list
Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org

From sjk3 at cornell.edu  Wed Mar 27 05:26:16 2013
From: sjk3 at cornell.edu (Sandra J. Kisner)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2013 12:26:16 +0000
Subject: [Sca-cooks] for the sausage-makers
Message-ID: <66B77324292D9C439D75C2952BFFBBB5098017EB@BLUPRD0412MB596.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>

http://thisisindexed.com/2013/03/some-like-theirs-extispicy/

Sandra


From JIMCHEVAL at aol.com  Wed Mar 27 07:15:13 2013
From: JIMCHEVAL at aol.com (JIMCHEVAL at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2013 10:15:13 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] for the sausage-makers
Message-ID: <a0d2.75b5c202.3e8458f1@aol.com>

Speaking just for myself here....
 
Please, PLEASE do not send out "naked" links - that is, links with no  
specific explanation. As a matter of good practice, people should not be  
clicking on these, which are almost ALWAYS dangerous.
 
In this case, that wasn't the case. But I had to do a search to be  sure.

If you've ever wondered why people click on the very links that  then bring 
us spam and worse, this is why. Because people get in the habit of  sending 
out, and clicking on, links without knowing exactly what they are.
 
That's a terrible idea.
 
Jim  Chevallier
_www.chezjim.com_ (http://www.chezjim.com/) 

A  History of Coffee and Other Refreshments in Early Modern France 
by  Pierre Le Grand d'Aussy  

 
In a message dated 3/27/2013 5:26:50 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
sjk3 at cornell.edu writes:

http://thisisindexed.com/2013/03/some-like-theirs-extispicy/


From sjk3 at cornell.edu  Wed Mar 27 07:27:28 2013
From: sjk3 at cornell.edu (Sandra J. Kisner)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2013 14:27:28 +0000
Subject: [Sca-cooks] for the sausage-makers
In-Reply-To: <a0d2.75b5c202.3e8458f1@aol.com>
References: <a0d2.75b5c202.3e8458f1@aol.com>
Message-ID: <66B77324292D9C439D75C2952BFFBBB5098018F6@BLUPRD0412MB596.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>

My apologies; I should have known better.  I bug my sister about that very thing frequently, to the point where she's afraid to send me links any more!

Sandra

-----Original Message-----
From: sca-cooks-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org [mailto:sca-cooks-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org] On Behalf Of JIMCHEVAL at aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2013 10:15 AM
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] for the sausage-makers

Speaking just for myself here....
 
Please, PLEASE do not send out "naked" links - that is, links with no  
specific explanation. As a matter of good practice, people should not be  
clicking on these, which are almost ALWAYS dangerous.
 
In this case, that wasn't the case. But I had to do a search to be  sure.

If you've ever wondered why people click on the very links that  then bring 
us spam and worse, this is why. Because people get in the habit of  sending 
out, and clicking on, links without knowing exactly what they are.
 
That's a terrible idea.
 
Jim  Chevallier
_www.chezjim.com_ (http://www.chezjim.com/) 

A  History of Coffee and Other Refreshments in Early Modern France 
by  Pierre Le Grand d'Aussy  

 
In a message dated 3/27/2013 5:26:50 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
sjk3 at cornell.edu writes:

http://thisisindexed.com/2013/03/some-like-theirs-extispicy/

_______________________________________________
Sca-cooks mailing list
Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org



From StefanliRous at austin.rr.com  Wed Mar 27 14:45:19 2013
From: StefanliRous at austin.rr.com (Stefan li Rous)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2013 16:45:19 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] poudre fort
Message-ID: <42D9F12A-A55B-414B-8AC1-D8E4F1707DE1@austin.rr.com>

Stephanie replied to me with:
<<< I did think of you for that link Stefan, actually.>>>

I'm not sure which link you are referring to here, but I have little time to scour the web myself and depend upon seeing links mentioned on email lists in order to add them to the Florilegium, and rather than simply listing links, I like to have a description of the link and why a SCAdian would be interested in going there.

I've already learned to ignore email messages that have only a link in them and either no title, or now, simple general titles. :-(

<<< I figured you'd scarf
the class handouts if they aren't already in the Florilegium. BTW. googling
"poudre fort" brings up the Florilegium at 7th in the rankings :) >>>

And unfortunately, since I don't scan the web looking for them, I don't see such handouts even if they are on the web. And just in case you are wondering, I will contact the author before I copy any such item from a website or blog to make sure I have permission to add it to the Florilegium. So if in doubt, still send it to me. 

Thanks for the Florilegium ranking. I know that its rank has often been falling as so many other sites show up on the web and the advertising money has dropped to almost nothing, but it is still nice to know it comes up in some niche searches.

<<< I use this blend in pates replacing Quatre' Espice. It's absolutley
delicious spinkled over any meat before (and after) roasting. Adds an
exotic touch to salads. I use it in place of regular pepper in many pickles
and sauces such as BBQ, sweet chili salsas and warm fruit sauces. It is
particularly good with fruits. >>>

What is "Quatre' Espice"? Is that a modern or medieval spice mix?

I like these ideas of adding a medieval spice mix to even modern food items. I'll have to consider it. What medieval spice mix would folks recommend for scrambled eggs?

Stefan

--------
THLord Stefan li Rous    Barony of Bryn Gwlad    Kingdom of Ansteorra
   Mark S. Harris           Austin, Texas          StefanliRous at austin.rr.com
http://www.linkedin.com/in/marksharris
**** See Stefan's Florilegium files at:  http://www.florilegium.org ****







From agora158 at gmail.com  Wed Mar 27 19:32:47 2013
From: agora158 at gmail.com (=?utf-8?Q?Ana_Vald=C3=A9s?=)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2013 23:32:47 -0300
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Grenade syrup or molasses
Message-ID: <BFDEFEB5-4786-4DE0-9F5F-A37EDA76FB78@gmail.com>

I got some nice grenades (it's season here in Uruguay now ), and I want to make some Iranian dish with grenades. But I don't understand the difference between grenade syrup or molasses and I wonder if someone of you have any ideas or recipes where I can use the grenades. I checked at the Florilegium of course :)
But I didn't find any step to step recipe on how to make the syrup or the molasses.
Thanks in advance
Ana

Skickat fr?n min iPhone

From agora158 at gmail.com  Wed Mar 27 19:46:26 2013
From: agora158 at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ana_Vald=E9s?=)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2013 23:46:26 -0300
Subject: [Sca-cooks] poudre fort
In-Reply-To: <42D9F12A-A55B-414B-8AC1-D8E4F1707DE1@austin.rr.com>
References: <42D9F12A-A55B-414B-8AC1-D8E4F1707DE1@austin.rr.com>
Message-ID: <CAFbYiEJM5mSsyD2sfSp3mcsWoZbVWVYOgLT+JR--_u+csUf5=Q@mail.gmail.com>

By the way, Stefan, the search function of the Florilegium doesn't seem to
work properly. I click on search but not search field comes up to write any
keywords.
Ana


On Wed, Mar 27, 2013 at 6:45 PM, Stefan li Rous
<StefanliRous at austin.rr.com>wrote:

> Stephanie replied to me with:
> <<< I did think of you for that link Stefan, actually.>>>
>
> I'm not sure which link you are referring to here, but I have little time
> to scour the web myself and depend upon seeing links mentioned on email
> lists in order to add them to the Florilegium, and rather than simply
> listing links, I like to have a description of the link and why a SCAdian
> would be interested in going there.
>
> I've already learned to ignore email messages that have only a link in
> them and either no title, or now, simple general titles. :-(
>
> <<< I figured you'd scarf
> the class handouts if they aren't already in the Florilegium. BTW. googling
> "poudre fort" brings up the Florilegium at 7th in the rankings :) >>>
>
> And unfortunately, since I don't scan the web looking for them, I don't
> see such handouts even if they are on the web. And just in case you are
> wondering, I will contact the author before I copy any such item from a
> website or blog to make sure I have permission to add it to the
> Florilegium. So if in doubt, still send it to me.
>
> Thanks for the Florilegium ranking. I know that its rank has often been
> falling as so many other sites show up on the web and the advertising money
> has dropped to almost nothing, but it is still nice to know it comes up in
> some niche searches.
>
> <<< I use this blend in pates replacing Quatre' Espice. It's absolutley
> delicious spinkled over any meat before (and after) roasting. Adds an
> exotic touch to salads. I use it in place of regular pepper in many pickles
> and sauces such as BBQ, sweet chili salsas and warm fruit sauces. It is
> particularly good with fruits. >>>
>
> What is "Quatre' Espice"? Is that a modern or medieval spice mix?
>
> I like these ideas of adding a medieval spice mix to even modern food
> items. I'll have to consider it. What medieval spice mix would folks
> recommend for scrambled eggs?
>
> Stefan
>
> --------
> THLord Stefan li Rous    Barony of Bryn Gwlad    Kingdom of Ansteorra
>    Mark S. Harris           Austin, Texas
> StefanliRous at austin.rr.com
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/marksharris
> **** See Stefan's Florilegium files at:  http://www.florilegium.org ****
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org
>



-- 
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http://maraya.tumblr.com/
http://www.twitter.com/caravia158
http://www.scoop.it/t/art-and-activism/
http://www.scoop.it/t/food-history-and-trivia
http://www.scoop.it/t/gender-issues/
http://www.scoop.it/t/literary-exiles/
http://www.scoop.it/t/museums-and-ethics/
http://www.scoop.it/t/urbanism-3-0
http://www.scoop.it/t/postcolonial-mind/

cell Sweden +4670-3213370
cell Uruguay +598-99470758


"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with
your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you will always
long to return.
? Leonardo da Vinci

From agora158 at gmail.com  Wed Mar 27 19:46:26 2013
From: agora158 at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ana_Vald=E9s?=)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2013 23:46:26 -0300
Subject: [Sca-cooks] poudre fort
In-Reply-To: <42D9F12A-A55B-414B-8AC1-D8E4F1707DE1@austin.rr.com>
References: <42D9F12A-A55B-414B-8AC1-D8E4F1707DE1@austin.rr.com>
Message-ID: <CAFbYiEJM5mSsyD2sfSp3mcsWoZbVWVYOgLT+JR--_u+csUf5=Q@mail.gmail.com>

By the way, Stefan, the search function of the Florilegium doesn't seem to
work properly. I click on search but not search field comes up to write any
keywords.
Ana


On Wed, Mar 27, 2013 at 6:45 PM, Stefan li Rous
<StefanliRous at austin.rr.com>wrote:

> Stephanie replied to me with:
> <<< I did think of you for that link Stefan, actually.>>>
>
> I'm not sure which link you are referring to here, but I have little time
> to scour the web myself and depend upon seeing links mentioned on email
> lists in order to add them to the Florilegium, and rather than simply
> listing links, I like to have a description of the link and why a SCAdian
> would be interested in going there.
>
> I've already learned to ignore email messages that have only a link in
> them and either no title, or now, simple general titles. :-(
>
> <<< I figured you'd scarf
> the class handouts if they aren't already in the Florilegium. BTW. googling
> "poudre fort" brings up the Florilegium at 7th in the rankings :) >>>
>
> And unfortunately, since I don't scan the web looking for them, I don't
> see such handouts even if they are on the web. And just in case you are
> wondering, I will contact the author before I copy any such item from a
> website or blog to make sure I have permission to add it to the
> Florilegium. So if in doubt, still send it to me.
>
> Thanks for the Florilegium ranking. I know that its rank has often been
> falling as so many other sites show up on the web and the advertising money
> has dropped to almost nothing, but it is still nice to know it comes up in
> some niche searches.
>
> <<< I use this blend in pates replacing Quatre' Espice. It's absolutley
> delicious spinkled over any meat before (and after) roasting. Adds an
> exotic touch to salads. I use it in place of regular pepper in many pickles
> and sauces such as BBQ, sweet chili salsas and warm fruit sauces. It is
> particularly good with fruits. >>>
>
> What is "Quatre' Espice"? Is that a modern or medieval spice mix?
>
> I like these ideas of adding a medieval spice mix to even modern food
> items. I'll have to consider it. What medieval spice mix would folks
> recommend for scrambled eggs?
>
> Stefan
>
> --------
> THLord Stefan li Rous    Barony of Bryn Gwlad    Kingdom of Ansteorra
>    Mark S. Harris           Austin, Texas
> StefanliRous at austin.rr.com
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/marksharris
> **** See Stefan's Florilegium files at:  http://www.florilegium.org ****
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org
>



-- 
http://writings-escrituras.tumblr.com/
http://maraya.tumblr.com/
http://www.twitter.com/caravia158
http://www.scoop.it/t/art-and-activism/
http://www.scoop.it/t/food-history-and-trivia
http://www.scoop.it/t/gender-issues/
http://www.scoop.it/t/literary-exiles/
http://www.scoop.it/t/museums-and-ethics/
http://www.scoop.it/t/urbanism-3-0
http://www.scoop.it/t/postcolonial-mind/

cell Sweden +4670-3213370
cell Uruguay +598-99470758


"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with
your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you will always
long to return.
? Leonardo da Vinci

From rcarrollmann at gmail.com  Wed Mar 27 19:51:39 2013
From: rcarrollmann at gmail.com (Robin Carroll-Mann)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2013 22:51:39 -0400
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Grenade syrup or molasses
In-Reply-To: <BFDEFEB5-4786-4DE0-9F5F-A37EDA76FB78@gmail.com>
References: <BFDEFEB5-4786-4DE0-9F5F-A37EDA76FB78@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+tVTMLhSK5z8kGnN_MOYT4VQ5ADAP=OJj1gzizmYodZF3195w@mail.gmail.com>

Part of your problem in searching for information may be that you're not
using the right word.  In English, that fruit is called pomegranate.  (In
English, grenade is the word for a hand-thrown explosive device.  It comes
from the French word for pomegranate.)

I've never made pomegranate syrup or molasses (molasses is thicker), but
here's a recipe from Alton Brown:
http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/alton-brown/pomegranate-syrup-or-molasses-recipe/index.html

Brighid ni Chiarain

From agora158 at gmail.com  Wed Mar 27 19:58:07 2013
From: agora158 at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ana_Vald=E9s?=)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2013 23:58:07 -0300
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Grenade syrup or molasses
In-Reply-To: <CA+tVTMLhSK5z8kGnN_MOYT4VQ5ADAP=OJj1gzizmYodZF3195w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BFDEFEB5-4786-4DE0-9F5F-A37EDA76FB78@gmail.com>
	<CA+tVTMLhSK5z8kGnN_MOYT4VQ5ADAP=OJj1gzizmYodZF3195w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFbYiEK+AF_DpJhUJ=b3oQq-mXn-HM3hUGPHOpTP4Xid1Cq62w@mail.gmail.com>

Haha my bad!! :) But in English the non alcoholic drink to use with
cocktails is called Grenadine that's because I believed it was indifferent
if I searched for grenade or for pommegrenade.
Thanks a bunch for the recipe!
Ana


On Wed, Mar 27, 2013 at 11:51 PM, Robin Carroll-Mann <rcarrollmann at gmail.com
> wrote:

> Part of your problem in searching for information may be that you're not
> using the right word.  In English, that fruit is called pomegranate.  (In
> English, grenade is the word for a hand-thrown explosive device.  It comes
> from the French word for pomegranate.)
>
> I've never made pomegranate syrup or molasses (molasses is thicker), but
> here's a recipe from Alton Brown:
>
> http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/alton-brown/pomegranate-syrup-or-molasses-recipe/index.html
>
> Brighid ni Chiarain
> _______________________________________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org
>



-- 
http://writings-escrituras.tumblr.com/
http://maraya.tumblr.com/
http://www.twitter.com/caravia158
http://www.scoop.it/t/art-and-activism/
http://www.scoop.it/t/food-history-and-trivia
http://www.scoop.it/t/gender-issues/
http://www.scoop.it/t/literary-exiles/
http://www.scoop.it/t/museums-and-ethics/
http://www.scoop.it/t/urbanism-3-0
http://www.scoop.it/t/postcolonial-mind/

cell Sweden +4670-3213370
cell Uruguay +598-99470758


"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with
your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you will always
long to return.
? Leonardo da Vinci

From t.d.decker at att.net  Wed Mar 27 20:54:30 2013
From: t.d.decker at att.net (Terry Decker)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2013 22:54:30 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Grenade syrup or molasses
In-Reply-To: <BFDEFEB5-4786-4DE0-9F5F-A37EDA76FB78@gmail.com>
References: <BFDEFEB5-4786-4DE0-9F5F-A37EDA76FB78@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D5E8D297125C4004A7ED45A20A1E797A@TerryPC>

Grenade is French for pomegranate.  Grenadine was originally pomegranate 
juice, sugar and water.  These days commercial grenadine is often a mix of 
high fructose corn syrup, water, preservatives, dyes and artificle flavors. 
Molasses is a byproduct of sugar refining and really isn't useful in 
producing grenadine.  I would suggest making a thin simple syrup to which 
you add pomegranate juise to taste then reduce it slowly to the desired 
consistency.

Bear


>I got some nice grenades (it's season here in Uruguay now ), and I want to 
>make some Iranian dish with grenades. But I don't understand the difference 
>between grenade syrup or molasses and I wonder if someone of you have any 
>ideas or recipes where I can use the grenades. I checked at the Florilegium 
>of course :)
> But I didn't find any step to step recipe on how to make the syrup or the 
> molasses.
> Thanks in advance
> Ana
>


From rcarrollmann at gmail.com  Wed Mar 27 21:05:25 2013
From: rcarrollmann at gmail.com (Robin Carroll-Mann)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2013 00:05:25 -0400
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Grenade syrup or molasses
In-Reply-To: <D5E8D297125C4004A7ED45A20A1E797A@TerryPC>
References: <BFDEFEB5-4786-4DE0-9F5F-A37EDA76FB78@gmail.com>
	<D5E8D297125C4004A7ED45A20A1E797A@TerryPC>
Message-ID: <CA+tVTM+sBND_=-ik0W86xGRegh+qKyZPAUhaK6noEAuO447k3A@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Mar 27, 2013 at 11:54 PM, Terry Decker <t.d.decker at att.net> wrote:

> Molasses is a byproduct of sugar refining and really isn't useful in
> producing grenadine.
>

Pomegranate molasses is an extra-thick pomegranate syrup, and is not the
same as the sugar by-product.  The Cortas brand is widely available in
Middle Eastern grocery stores.

Brighid ni Chiarain

From agora158 at gmail.com  Wed Mar 27 21:05:33 2013
From: agora158 at gmail.com (=?utf-8?Q?Ana_Vald=C3=A9s?=)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2013 01:05:33 -0300
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Grenade syrup or molasses
In-Reply-To: <D5E8D297125C4004A7ED45A20A1E797A@TerryPC>
References: <BFDEFEB5-4786-4DE0-9F5F-A37EDA76FB78@gmail.com>
	<D5E8D297125C4004A7ED45A20A1E797A@TerryPC>
Message-ID: <29766D66-EFA0-46F3-A75E-E104E0010758@gmail.com>

Thank you the only difference between molasses and syrup here seems be the thickness and the amount of hours you cook it.
I am going to have a Macedonien guest, an Art historian, and he invited me in his house in Skopje with some delicious cookies only baked at the mountains in Macedonien where Alexander was once born. He said to me those cookies were made after the same recipe used in Alexander's time.
That's because we are going to roast a whole lamb for Pance in his visit and I wanted to make several side dishes to the lamb, among them rice with pomegranates and pistachio nuts and raisins.
Ana

Skickat fr?n min iPhone

28 mar 2013 kl. 00:54 skrev "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at att.net>:

> Grenade is French for pomegranate.  Grenadine was originally pomegranate juice, sugar and water.  These days commercial grenadine is often a mix of high fructose corn syrup, water, preservatives, dyes and artificle flavors. Molasses is a byproduct of sugar refining and really isn't useful in producing grenadine.  I would suggest making a thin simple syrup to which you add pomegranate juise to taste then reduce it slowly to the desired consistency.
> 
> Bear
> 
> 
>> I got some nice grenades (it's season here in Uruguay now ), and I want to make some Iranian dish with grenades. But I don't understand the difference between grenade syrup or molasses and I wonder if someone of you have any ideas or recipes where I can use the grenades. I checked at the Florilegium of course :)
>> But I didn't find any step to step recipe on how to make the syrup or the molasses.
>> Thanks in advance
>> Ana
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org

From agora158 at gmail.com  Wed Mar 27 21:09:37 2013
From: agora158 at gmail.com (=?utf-8?Q?Ana_Vald=C3=A9s?=)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2013 01:09:37 -0300
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Grenade syrup or molasses
In-Reply-To: <CA+tVTM+sBND_=-ik0W86xGRegh+qKyZPAUhaK6noEAuO447k3A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BFDEFEB5-4786-4DE0-9F5F-A37EDA76FB78@gmail.com>
	<D5E8D297125C4004A7ED45A20A1E797A@TerryPC>
	<CA+tVTM+sBND_=-ik0W86xGRegh+qKyZPAUhaK6noEAuO447k3A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4D5D87CE-00DE-4BFA-8ED4-C641E636B182@gmail.com>

Sadly the Middle East grocery stores here are few, our immigration is an old inmigration and they live most integrated to the Uruguayan society and their foods are not longer cooked.
The only ethnic group still having their own restaurants here are the Armenians and their lemajuns, a kind of pizza with minced meat and lemon, are eaten everywhere.
Ana

Skickat fr?n min iPhone

28 mar 2013 kl. 01:05 skrev Robin Carroll-Mann <rcarrollmann at gmail.com>:

> On Wed, Mar 27, 2013 at 11:54 PM, Terry Decker <t.d.decker at att.net> wrote:
> 
>> Molasses is a byproduct of sugar refining and really isn't useful in
>> producing grenadine.
> 
> Pomegranate molasses is an extra-thick pomegranate syrup, and is not the
> same as the sugar by-product.  The Cortas brand is widely available in
> Middle Eastern grocery stores.
> 
> Brighid ni Chiarain
> _______________________________________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org

From jinxleah at gmail.com  Wed Mar 27 21:18:44 2013
From: jinxleah at gmail.com (Leah Adams)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2013 23:18:44 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Grenade syrup or molasses
Message-ID: <CAE8+JFn10jDDYiOv9nfs_Uwx1W0Rt+ooHno7vqb-=rOUFMT1Zw@mail.gmail.com>

I have two incredibly easy pomegranate (simple) syrups (or grenadines)
that I make, one cooked & one not cooked. They both use only two
ingredients. Pomegranate (or grenade, whichever term you are more at
ease with.) and water.

Cooked pomegranate syrup
(Also known as grenadine or pomegranate simple syrup.)
Bring one part pomegranate juice to a simmer.
Add one part sugar.
Cook until sugar has fully dissolved.
You can of course cook it down until it is more like a thick molasses
type concoction. But be careful with it. I've found that pomegranate
juice can burn pretty easily. This syrup will have a more complex
taste to it than the next recipe.

Uncooked pomegranate syrup
Put one part pomegranate juice into a bottle or jar.
Add one part plus a little extra of sugar into the bottle or jar.
Shake until thoroughly combined. (This is a good one for when you just
have to catch up on that favorite show!)

I usually make about four cups of syrup whenever I make it.

Both of these are easily adaptable. You can add more or less sugar
according to your tastes. I tend to put a shot of vodka in mine just
to preserve it. Then use it up in my sodas in about a week, meaning I
had no need for the vodka. I mix about 2 ounces syrup with tonic water
for my soda, then add ice. The tonic water adds a lovely bite to the
soda. It's also great in plain water.

> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2013 23:32:47 -0300
> From: Ana Vald?s <agora158 at gmail.com>
> To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> Subject: [Sca-cooks] Grenade syrup or molasses
> Message-ID: <BFDEFEB5-4786-4DE0-9F5F-A37EDA76FB78 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset=utf-8
>
> I got some nice grenades (it's season here in Uruguay now ), and I want to make some Iranian dish with grenades. But I don't understand the difference between grenade syrup or molasses and I wonder if someone of you have any ideas or recipes where I can use the grenades. I checked at the Florilegium of course :)
> But I didn't find any step to step recipe on how to make the syrup or the molasses.
> Thanks in advance
> Ana
>
> Skickat fr?n min iPhone
>
> ------------------------------

From agora158 at gmail.com  Wed Mar 27 21:21:35 2013
From: agora158 at gmail.com (=?utf-8?Q?Ana_Vald=C3=A9s?=)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2013 01:21:35 -0300
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Grenade syrup or molasses
In-Reply-To: <CAE8+JFn10jDDYiOv9nfs_Uwx1W0Rt+ooHno7vqb-=rOUFMT1Zw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAE8+JFn10jDDYiOv9nfs_Uwx1W0Rt+ooHno7vqb-=rOUFMT1Zw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E90E39D1-78DE-4452-80B1-283C89D260F3@gmail.com>

It's sounds yummy, tomorrow I will try all the recipes!
Thanks again!
Ana

Skickat fr?n min iPhone

28 mar 2013 kl. 01:18 skrev Leah Adams <jinxleah at gmail.com>:

> I have two incredibly easy pomegranate (simple) syrups (or grenadines)
> that I make, one cooked & one not cooked. They both use only two
> ingredients. Pomegranate (or grenade, whichever term you are more at
> ease with.) and water.
> 
> Cooked pomegranate syrup
> (Also known as grenadine or pomegranate simple syrup.)
> Bring one part pomegranate juice to a simmer.
> Add one part sugar.
> Cook until sugar has fully dissolved.
> You can of course cook it down until it is more like a thick molasses
> type concoction. But be careful with it. I've found that pomegranate
> juice can burn pretty easily. This syrup will have a more complex
> taste to it than the next recipe.
> 
> Uncooked pomegranate syrup
> Put one part pomegranate juice into a bottle or jar.
> Add one part plus a little extra of sugar into the bottle or jar.
> Shake until thoroughly combined. (This is a good one for when you just
> have to catch up on that favorite show!)
> 
> I usually make about four cups of syrup whenever I make it.
> 
> Both of these are easily adaptable. You can add more or less sugar
> according to your tastes. I tend to put a shot of vodka in mine just
> to preserve it. Then use it up in my sodas in about a week, meaning I
> had no need for the vodka. I mix about 2 ounces syrup with tonic water
> for my soda, then add ice. The tonic water adds a lovely bite to the
> soda. It's also great in plain water.
> 
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2013 23:32:47 -0300
>> From: Ana Vald?s <agora158 at gmail.com>
>> To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
>> Subject: [Sca-cooks] Grenade syrup or molasses
>> Message-ID: <BFDEFEB5-4786-4DE0-9F5F-A37EDA76FB78 at gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset=utf-8
>> 
>> I got some nice grenades (it's season here in Uruguay now ), and I want to make some Iranian dish with grenades. But I don't understand the difference between grenade syrup or molasses and I wonder if someone of you have any ideas or recipes where I can use the grenades. I checked at the Florilegium of course :)
>> But I didn't find any step to step recipe on how to make the syrup or the molasses.
>> Thanks in advance
>> Ana
>> 
>> Skickat fr?n min iPhone
>> 
>> ------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org

From JIMCHEVAL at aol.com  Wed Mar 27 21:32:30 2013
From: JIMCHEVAL at aol.com (JIMCHEVAL at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2013 00:32:30 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Grenade syrup or molasses
Message-ID: <1fc88.15c194ea.3e8521de@aol.com>

Find a grocery store owned by Persian Armenians and you're golden.
 
Jim  Chevallier
_www.chezjim.com_ (http://www.chezjim.com/) 

A  History of Coffee and Other Refreshments in Early Modern France 
by  Pierre Le Grand d'Aussy  

 
In a message dated 3/27/2013 9:10:32 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
agora158 at gmail.com writes:

The only  ethnic group still having their own restaurants here are the 
Armenians and  their lemajuns, a kind of pizza with minced meat and lemon, are 
eaten  everywhere.


From JIMCHEVAL at aol.com  Wed Mar 27 23:01:48 2013
From: JIMCHEVAL at aol.com (JIMCHEVAL at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2013 02:01:48 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] poudre fort
Message-ID: <20534.3ce3c470.3e8536cc@aol.com>

Sounds pretty late medieval actually:
"Quatre  ?pices is a spice mix used mainly in France but also found in 
Middle Eastern  kitchens. The name literally means "four spices"; the spice mix 
contains ground  pepper (white, black, or both), cloves, nutmeg and ginger. 
Some variations of  the mix use allspice instead of pepper or cinnamon in 
place of  ginger."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quatre_%C3%A9pices

Not that  I'd use it in eggs, myself. If you want to go medieval there, try 
early medieval  - when cumin and pepper were the two top imported spices. 
Sounds pretty good for  eggs to me. (They liked honey and vinegar, also black 
mustard, on a lot of stuff  too, for what that's worth.)

Otherwise, here's what Le Grand says in his  chapter on eggs, etc:

"Eggs, which according to one of our kitchen  sayings we can prepare today 
in a hundred and one different ways, only had  twenty, in Platina's time 
[1421 ? 1481]. Further these twenty, for the most  part, differed from ours. 
Scrambled eggs, for example, were made with butter,  water, cheese and 
aromatic herbs; then they were made green with the juice of  borage or parsley; 
because this color was greatly prized in stews. Poached eggs,  which our Cooks 
serve with a little meat gravy, and upon which they sprinkle a  little 
pepper, were served with orange juice and sweet  spices."



Jim Chevallier
www.chezjim.com

A History of  Coffee and Other Refreshments in Early Modern France 
by Pierre Le Grand  d'Aussy 

In a message dated 3/27/2013 7:46:54 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
agora158 at gmail.com writes:
> What is "Quatre' Espice"? Is that a modern or  medieval spice mix?
>
> I like these ideas of adding a medieval  spice mix to even modern food
> items. I'll have to consider it. What  medieval spice mix would folks
> recommend for scrambled eggs?  


From johnnae at mac.com  Thu Mar 28 06:30:40 2013
From: johnnae at mac.com (Johnna Holloway)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2013 09:30:40 -0400
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Gastronomy and Cookery Books Online at Library of
	Congress
Message-ID: <EEA8DE0D-36BA-4B01-B556-01BEC613DE53@mac.com>

Perhaps because it's listed under Gastronomy, no one seems to have mentioned
that the Library of Congress's Rare Book & Special Collections Division now has this collection available online.

Gastronomy Books 
Books on the topic of gastronomy. Selected mainly from Pennell and Bitting Collections in the Rare Book and Special Collections Division.

http://www.loc.gov/rr/rarebook/digitalcoll/digitalcoll-gastronomy.html

One can move through the included books page by page or there may be a PDF link.

Among the offerings are Accomplish'd Lady's Delight from 1675, a 1498 Apicius, a 1541 Bastiment, a 1656 Compleat Cook, two volumes by Digby, John French's Art of Distillation from 1667, John Gerard's Herball, Markham, Moffett, John Nott's dictionary, Plat, Platina, etc

Plus Maestro Martino. Libro de arte coquinaria / Maestro Martino da Como; a cura di Emilio Montorfano e con introduzione di Ernesto Travi. Milano: Terziaria, 1990.
 
There's also My Cookery Books
A select bibliography of the Elizabeth Robins Pennell collection. 

They're are certainly worth a look.

Johnnae

From agora158 at gmail.com  Thu Mar 28 06:34:46 2013
From: agora158 at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ana_Vald=E9s?=)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2013 10:34:46 -0300
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Grenade syrup or molasses
In-Reply-To: <1fc88.15c194ea.3e8521de@aol.com>
References: <1fc88.15c194ea.3e8521de@aol.com>
Message-ID: <CAFbYiELWsJvMJ1JFwT-KE_kWLZBY4KH_oQigFqQVcT83Y0wBqw@mail.gmail.com>

The Armenians here are from Turkey and they don't have groceries, weird :(
Ana


On Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 1:32 AM, <JIMCHEVAL at aol.com> wrote:

> Find a grocery store owned by Persian Armenians and you're golden.
>
> Jim  Chevallier
> _www.chezjim.com_ (http://www.chezjim.com/)
>
> A  History of Coffee and Other Refreshments in Early Modern France
> by  Pierre Le Grand d'Aussy
>
>
> In a message dated 3/27/2013 9:10:32 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
> agora158 at gmail.com writes:
>
> The only  ethnic group still having their own restaurants here are the
> Armenians and  their lemajuns, a kind of pizza with minced meat and lemon,
> are
> eaten  everywhere.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org
>



-- 
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http://www.scoop.it/t/art-and-activism/
http://www.scoop.it/t/food-history-and-trivia
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cell Sweden +4670-3213370
cell Uruguay +598-99470758


"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with
your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you will always
long to return.
? Leonardo da Vinci

From selene at earthlink.net  Thu Mar 28 07:25:04 2013
From: selene at earthlink.net (Susan Fox)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2013 07:25:04 -0700
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Grenade syrup or molasses
In-Reply-To: <BFDEFEB5-4786-4DE0-9F5F-A37EDA76FB78@gmail.com>
References: <BFDEFEB5-4786-4DE0-9F5F-A37EDA76FB78@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <515452C0.7090405@earthlink.net>

This is a nice chicken with pomegranate juice and walnuts.  I hope you 
like purple chicken!  It is a popular contemporary Persian recipe, but I 
have found something very similar in Medieval books, with lamb instead 
of chicken.  I give proportions for a feast and for a family.  Enjoy.


*Fesenjan *

(Chicken with walnuts and pomegranate syrup)

Serves 75 or more probably

25 lb. chicken parts, with skin and bones

2 cups vegetable oil, more if needed

20 onions, sliced thin

1 pint garlic cloves, chopped [the local Asian markets sell garlic in 
pint containers, I think it is something like 12 ounces.  Measure it.]

5 pounds walnuts

8 one-quart bottles pomegranate juice

Salt and pepper to taste

2 small cones piloncillo sugar

2 Tbsp saffron melted in hot water

Pomegranate seeds for garnish, if available  [not in March]

[To Serve Four]

  * 4 chicken breasts with skin and bones
  * 2 Tbsp. vegetable oil, more if needed
  * 2 onions, sliced thin
  * 4 garlic cloves, chopped
  * 150g walnuts
  * 1 one-quart bottles pomegranate juice
  * Salt and pepper to taste
  * 4-6 teaspoons brown sugar
  * ? t. saffron melted in hot water

Place chicken pieces in pan, skin side down. Sear quickly until skin is 
dark golden brown. Turn over; lower heat, being careful not to burn. Add 
onions and garlic. When flesh is lightly colored, turn chicken again. 
Remove from pan when it is still underdone, along with most of the 
drippings.

In a small amount of drippings continue sauteing onion and garlic. (If 
you don't want to saute in drippings, use vegetable oil.) Add walnuts; 
cook until they begin to darken and give off a lovely nutty aroma. Add 
pomegranate juice, salt and pepper; stir to combine.

Add sugar to taste and return chicken parts to pan. Simmer gently in the 
sauce until they are medium rare. Take pan off the fire; add saffron. 
Sprinkle pomegranate seeds into sauce, if using, and over chicken. Serve 
with saffron rice, if desired.

Loosely adapted from the Claudia Roden version + NARSUN, from THE 
DESCRIPTION OF FAMILIAR FOODS

About twice as much of the pomegranate sauce as the Roden version 
because I did not think there was enough!



On 3/27/2013 7:32 PM, Ana Vald?s wrote:
> I got some nice grenades (it's season here in Uruguay now ), and I want to make some Iranian dish with grenades. But I don't understand the difference between grenade syrup or molasses and I wonder if someone of you have any ideas or recipes where I can use the grenades. I checked at the Florilegium of course :)
> But I didn't find any step to step recipe on how to make the syrup or the molasses.
> Thanks in advance
> Ana


From agora158 at gmail.com  Thu Mar 28 07:28:24 2013
From: agora158 at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ana_Vald=E9s?=)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2013 11:28:24 -0300
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Grenade syrup or molasses
In-Reply-To: <515452C0.7090405@earthlink.net>
References: <BFDEFEB5-4786-4DE0-9F5F-A37EDA76FB78@gmail.com>
	<515452C0.7090405@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <CAFbYiEJxfDZgQH_iNdmaDUWmKk6HcHeMwq-4OBGPawJzF-xQUA@mail.gmail.com>

Wonderful dish, I am going to peel the pomegranates now :)
Ana


On Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 11:25 AM, Susan Fox <selene at earthlink.net> wrote:

> This is a nice chicken with pomegranate juice and walnuts.  I hope you
> like purple chicken!  It is a popular contemporary Persian recipe, but I
> have found something very similar in Medieval books, with lamb instead of
> chicken.  I give proportions for a feast and for a family.  Enjoy.
>
>
> *Fesenjan *
>
> (Chicken with walnuts and pomegranate syrup)
>
> Serves 75 or more probably
>
> 25 lb. chicken parts, with skin and bones
>
> 2 cups vegetable oil, more if needed
>
> 20 onions, sliced thin
>
> 1 pint garlic cloves, chopped [the local Asian markets sell garlic in pint
> containers, I think it is something like 12 ounces.  Measure it.]
>
> 5 pounds walnuts
>
> 8 one-quart bottles pomegranate juice
>
> Salt and pepper to taste
>
> 2 small cones piloncillo sugar
>
> 2 Tbsp saffron melted in hot water
>
> Pomegranate seeds for garnish, if available  [not in March]
>
> [To Serve Four]
>
>  * 4 chicken breasts with skin and bones
>  * 2 Tbsp. vegetable oil, more if needed
>  * 2 onions, sliced thin
>  * 4 garlic cloves, chopped
>  * 150g walnuts
>  * 1 one-quart bottles pomegranate juice
>  * Salt and pepper to taste
>  * 4-6 teaspoons brown sugar
>  * ? t. saffron melted in hot water
>
> Place chicken pieces in pan, skin side down. Sear quickly until skin is
> dark golden brown. Turn over; lower heat, being careful not to burn. Add
> onions and garlic. When flesh is lightly colored, turn chicken again.
> Remove from pan when it is still underdone, along with most of the
> drippings.
>
> In a small amount of drippings continue sauteing onion and garlic. (If you
> don't want to saute in drippings, use vegetable oil.) Add walnuts; cook
> until they begin to darken and give off a lovely nutty aroma. Add
> pomegranate juice, salt and pepper; stir to combine.
>
> Add sugar to taste and return chicken parts to pan. Simmer gently in the
> sauce until they are medium rare. Take pan off the fire; add saffron.
> Sprinkle pomegranate seeds into sauce, if using, and over chicken. Serve
> with saffron rice, if desired.
>
> Loosely adapted from the Claudia Roden version + NARSUN, from THE
> DESCRIPTION OF FAMILIAR FOODS
>
> About twice as much of the pomegranate sauce as the Roden version because
> I did not think there was enough!
>
>
>
>
> On 3/27/2013 7:32 PM, Ana Vald?s wrote:
>
>> I got some nice grenades (it's season here in Uruguay now ), and I want
>> to make some Iranian dish with grenades. But I don't understand the
>> difference between grenade syrup or molasses and I wonder if someone of you
>> have any ideas or recipes where I can use the grenades. I checked at the
>> Florilegium of course :)
>> But I didn't find any step to step recipe on how to make the syrup or the
>> molasses.
>> Thanks in advance
>> Ana
>>
>
> ______________________________**_________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/**listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-**ansteorra.org<http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org>
>



-- 
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http://www.scoop.it/t/art-and-activism/
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http://www.scoop.it/t/gender-issues/
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cell Sweden +4670-3213370
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"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with
your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you will always
long to return.
? Leonardo da Vinci

From lilinah at earthlink.net  Thu Mar 28 09:15:48 2013
From: lilinah at earthlink.net (lilinah at earthlink.net)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2013 09:15:48 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Grenade syrup or molasses
Message-ID: <7039098.1364487348555.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rubis.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Ana Valdes wrote:
> I got some nice grenades (it's season here in Uruguay now ), and I want to make 
> some Iranian dish with grenades. But I don't understand the difference between 
> grenade syrup or molasses and I wonder if someone of you have any ideas or 
> recipes where I can use the grenades. I checked at the Florilegium of course :)
>
> But I didn't find any step to step recipe on how to make the syrup or the 
> molasses.

There's a major difference between pomegranate syrup and pomegranate molasses.

Pomegranate syrup is made with pomegranate juice and sugar which are cooked just enough to reach a syrupy stage. This can vary depending on how much sugar is used.

So-called pomegranate molasses is pure pomegranate juice which is simmered for a long time until it becomes very thick. I would assume this is done on a rather low fire so there's no burning or scorching, and involves a lot of stirring for the same reasons. There is generally NO sugar involved. It is rather tart. (And it is not really a type of molasses, at least not as i consider molasses to be, which is why i say "so-called").

I've made pomegranate syrup from scratch using purchased pure organic pomegranate juice and cane sugar in equal weights, as in the recipe in the 13th c. anonymous Andalusian cookbook. I put the sugar in a saucepan, stir the juice into the sugar, and when they are mixed as well as can be, i put the pan on a high fire, bring the liquid to a boil, and reduce the fire so that it simmers strongly. Take about 15 minutes at a high simmer to get syrup of the consistency i prefer. Remember to stir occasionally - more stirring as it gets thicker - so it doesn't burn in the bottom of the pan.

I have never tried to make so-called pomegranate "molasses". I have purchased different brands and found them to vary significantly in color, flavor, and consistency, but i don't remember what brand i liked best.

Most Middle Eastern recipes call for the pomegranate "molasses".

If you have Armenians near you, they should known where to get pomegranate  "molasses".

Someone sometimes called Urtatim

From lilinah at earthlink.net  Thu Mar 28 14:54:32 2013
From: lilinah at earthlink.net (lilinah at earthlink.net)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2013 14:54:32 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Grenade syrup or molasses
Message-ID: <14478895.1364507673130.JavaMail.root@mswamui-billy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Ana Valdes wrote:
> The Armenians here are from Turkey and they don't have groceries, weird :(

That's odd.

The Turks make and use pomegranate "molasses". The word for pomegranate in Turkish is "nar", which is the same in Persian. The Ottoman Turks borrowed a lot of Persian and Arabic words. There was a Turkish language purge in the early 20th c. to get rid of all Persian and Arabic words, but many still remain in the language. Pomegranate molasses in Turkish is nar ekshisi (the "sh" is actually an s with a cedilla, but that won't show in e-mail), in Persian it's rab e-nar.

Urtatim (that's oor-tah-TEEM)


From agora158 at gmail.com  Thu Mar 28 15:10:15 2013
From: agora158 at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ana_Vald=E9s?=)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2013 19:10:15 -0300
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Grenade syrup or molasses
In-Reply-To: <14478895.1364507673130.JavaMail.root@mswamui-billy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <14478895.1364507673130.JavaMail.root@mswamui-billy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <CAFbYiEJqLnttc5ZPL8hBVoZTf1jOhNB-4q1yscy9S56giFGO7w@mail.gmail.com>

I am going to have a visit from Yerevan in some months, I am going to ask
her to bring some bottle to compre! :)
Ana


On Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 6:54 PM, <lilinah at earthlink.net> wrote:

> Ana Valdes wrote:
> > The Armenians here are from Turkey and they don't have groceries, weird
> :(
>
> That's odd.
>
> The Turks make and use pomegranate "molasses". The word for pomegranate in
> Turkish is "nar", which is the same in Persian. The Ottoman Turks borrowed
> a lot of Persian and Arabic words. There was a Turkish language purge in
> the early 20th c. to get rid of all Persian and Arabic words, but many
> still remain in the language. Pomegranate molasses in Turkish is nar
> ekshisi (the "sh" is actually an s with a cedilla, but that won't show in
> e-mail), in Persian it's rab e-nar.
>
> Urtatim (that's oor-tah-TEEM)
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org
>



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"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with
your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you will always
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? Leonardo da Vinci

From StefanliRous at austin.rr.com  Thu Mar 28 18:56:46 2013
From: StefanliRous at austin.rr.com (Stefan li Rous)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2013 20:56:46 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] poudre fort
Message-ID: <21A1D1F3-649C-4067-976F-164ABAA18959@austin.rr.com>

<<< By the way, Stefan, the search function of the Florilegium doesn't seem to
work properly. I click on search but not search field comes up to write any
keywords.
Ana >>>

Yes, I'm not sure what has changed. However, if you click on the link and open it in another window or frame, it seems to work.

If anyone has an idea of what is going on and how to fix it, please let me know.

Stefan

--------
THLord Stefan li Rous    Barony of Bryn Gwlad    Kingdom of Ansteorra
   Mark S. Harris           Austin, Texas          StefanliRous at austin.rr.com
http://www.linkedin.com/in/marksharris
**** See Stefan's Florilegium files at:  http://www.florilegium.org ****







From david at vastrepast.com  Thu Mar 28 22:19:33 2013
From: david at vastrepast.com (David Walddon)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2013 22:19:33 -0700
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Gastronomy and Cookery Books Online at Library of
	Congress
In-Reply-To: <EEA8DE0D-36BA-4B01-B556-01BEC613DE53@mac.com>
References: <EEA8DE0D-36BA-4B01-B556-01BEC613DE53@mac.com>
Message-ID: <DE1EE418-9DC7-4B73-8E05-24FBA9C3221E@vastrepast.com>

The Martino can also be found in the Octavo edition (my favorite translation). It is usually referred to as the LC Martino or the Library of Congress Martino. 

The others, including Nott's Dictionary, are REALLY interesting. Thank for sharing Johnnae. 

Now I have a challenge. 

Who can find the recipe for tomato ketchup in Gerard's first? 

Eduardo 
__________________________________

David Walddon
david at vastrepast.com
www.vastrepast.net
360-402-6135 Cell

On Mar 28, 2013, at 6:30 AM, Johnna Holloway wrote:

> Perhaps because it's listed under Gastronomy, no one seems to have mentioned
> that the Library of Congress's Rare Book & Special Collections Division now has this collection available online.
> 
> Gastronomy Books 
> Books on the topic of gastronomy. Selected mainly from Pennell and Bitting Collections in the Rare Book and Special Collections Division.
> 
> http://www.loc.gov/rr/rarebook/digitalcoll/digitalcoll-gastronomy.html
> 
> One can move through the included books page by page or there may be a PDF link.
> 
> Among the offerings are Accomplish'd Lady's Delight from 1675, a 1498 Apicius, a 1541 Bastiment, a 1656 Compleat Cook, two volumes by Digby, John French's Art of Distillation from 1667, John Gerard's Herball, Markham, Moffett, John Nott's dictionary, Plat, Platina, etc
> 
> Plus Maestro Martino. Libro de arte coquinaria / Maestro Martino da Como; a cura di Emilio Montorfano e con introduzione di Ernesto Travi. Milano: Terziaria, 1990.
> 
> There's also My Cookery Books
> A select bibliography of the Elizabeth Robins Pennell collection. 
> 
> They're are certainly worth a look.
> 
> Johnnae
> _______________________________________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org


From prescotj at telusplanet.net  Thu Mar 28 23:38:14 2013
From: prescotj at telusplanet.net (James Prescott)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2013 00:38:14 -0600
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Gastronomy and Cookery Books Online at Library of
 Congress
In-Reply-To: <DE1EE418-9DC7-4B73-8E05-24FBA9C3221E@vastrepast.com>
References: <EEA8DE0D-36BA-4B01-B556-01BEC613DE53@mac.com>
	<DE1EE418-9DC7-4B73-8E05-24FBA9C3221E@vastrepast.com>
Message-ID: <515536D6.4080702@telusplanet.net>


This close enough?  Last paragraph in the chapter.

http://lcweb2.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage?collId=rbc3&fileName=rbc0001_2011bit28884page.db&recNum=394

Image 395 if the link doesn't work.


Thorvald



On 2013-03-28 23:19, David Walddon wrote:

> Who can find the recipe for tomato ketchup in Gerard's first?
>
> Eduardo

From david at vastrepast.com  Thu Mar 28 23:42:47 2013
From: david at vastrepast.com (David Walddon)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2013 23:42:47 -0700
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Gastronomy and Cookery Books Online at Library of
	Congress
In-Reply-To: <515536D6.4080702@telusplanet.net>
References: <EEA8DE0D-36BA-4B01-B556-01BEC613DE53@mac.com>
	<DE1EE418-9DC7-4B73-8E05-24FBA9C3221E@vastrepast.com>
	<515536D6.4080702@telusplanet.net>
Message-ID: <FBEC6977-EBC5-4400-BDE7-463E788A1474@vastrepast.com>

"Likewise they doe eate the Apples with oile, vinegre and pepper mixed together for sauce to their meat, even as we in the cold countries doe Mustard". 

Good job Thorvald! 

Eduardo

On Mar 28, 2013, at 11:38 PM, James Prescott wrote:

> 
> This close enough?  Last paragraph in the chapter.
> 
> http://lcweb2.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage?collId=rbc3&fileName=rbc0001_2011bit28884page.db&recNum=394
> 
> Image 395 if the link doesn't work.
> 
> 
> Thorvald
> 
> 
> 
> On 2013-03-28 23:19, David Walddon wrote:
> 
>> Who can find the recipe for tomato ketchup in Gerard's first?
>> 
>> Eduardo
> _______________________________________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org


From the.red.ross at gmail.com  Fri Mar 29 06:45:56 2013
From: the.red.ross at gmail.com (Stephanie Ross)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2013 09:45:56 -0400
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Scrambled eggs
Message-ID: <CALE-c-1hDQ=i3G0hR4SwBi-nLm_ytkAhvpsXocxC=hDoaCeiCw@mail.gmail.com>

Stefan wrote:

> I like these ideas of adding a medieval  spice mix to even modern food
> items. I'll have to consider it. What  medieval spice mix would folks
> recommend for scrambled eggs?


I don't know how medieval it is as a mixture, but I really like Herbes de
Provence in my scrambled eggs, with a little grated sharp cheddar cheese.
The lavender gives the mix a unique flavor that I like in the eggs.  I
know, technically it's herbs and not spices. There aren't too many spices I
would like in my eggs, actually. Pepper and maybe ginger or Grains of
Paradise, but that's about it. In my kingdom, one of our best cooks poached
eggs in cream over a fire and served it with sea salt, thyme and a
grain-filled bread. It was truly fantastic, and such a shame that the A&S
judges thought it "too simple". I ate it greedily and think about it often.
The thyme really made the dish. If I get to go to Gulf Wars next year, it
will be a staple for breakfast.

AEschwynne
-- 
Et si omnes ego non.

From lyndyn29 at gmail.com  Fri Mar 29 10:04:52 2013
From: lyndyn29 at gmail.com (Beth Harper)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2013 11:04:52 -0600
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Scrambled eggs
In-Reply-To: <CALE-c-1hDQ=i3G0hR4SwBi-nLm_ytkAhvpsXocxC=hDoaCeiCw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALE-c-1hDQ=i3G0hR4SwBi-nLm_ytkAhvpsXocxC=hDoaCeiCw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACAydn=30P0+3Az8aytqx-6RZTgAze=SE3oz560VABzpKGnM9g@mail.gmail.com>

I made little 1/-oz packets of the al-Baghdadi seasoned salt recipe for
feast tokens for a recent event, and we had a bunch of tokens left over,
and I've been putting it on all sorts of stuff - I added it to egg salad
yesterday in a sandwich and it was delicious; I'm sure it would be
fantastic in scrambled eggs too! It's kosher salt, coriander, cumin,
sesame, poppy, fennel, anise, and nigella.

Liepa

On Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 7:45 AM, Stephanie Ross <the.red.ross at gmail.com>wrote:

> Stefan wrote:
>
> > I like these ideas of adding a medieval  spice mix to even modern food
> > items. I'll have to consider it. What  medieval spice mix would folks
> > recommend for scrambled eggs?
>
>

From jimandandi at cox.net  Fri Mar 29 15:03:23 2013
From: jimandandi at cox.net (Jim and Andi Houston)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2013 18:03:23 -0400
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Scrambled eggs
In-Reply-To: <CACAydn=30P0+3Az8aytqx-6RZTgAze=SE3oz560VABzpKGnM9g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALE-c-1hDQ=i3G0hR4SwBi-nLm_ytkAhvpsXocxC=hDoaCeiCw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACAydn=30P0+3Az8aytqx-6RZTgAze=SE3oz560VABzpKGnM9g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <038301ce2cc9$3ba54aa0$b2efdfe0$@cox.net>

Liepa,

I'm totally stealing this idea for an upcoming feast!

Madhavi

-----Original Message-----
From: sca-cooks-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org
[mailto:sca-cooks-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org] On Behalf Of Beth Harper
Sent: Friday, March 29, 2013 1:05 PM
To: Cooks within the SCA
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Scrambled eggs

I made little 1/-oz packets of the al-Baghdadi seasoned salt recipe for
feast tokens for a recent event, and we had a bunch of tokens left over, and
I've been putting it on all sorts of stuff - I added it to egg salad
yesterday in a sandwich and it was delicious; I'm sure it would be fantastic
in scrambled eggs too! It's kosher salt, coriander, cumin, sesame, poppy,
fennel, anise, and nigella.

Liepa

On Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 7:45 AM, Stephanie Ross
<the.red.ross at gmail.com>wrote:

> Stefan wrote:
>
> > I like these ideas of adding a medieval  spice mix to even modern 
> > food items. I'll have to consider it. What  medieval spice mix would 
> > folks recommend for scrambled eggs?
>
>
_______________________________________________
Sca-cooks mailing list
Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org


From johnnae at mac.com  Sat Mar 30 13:12:25 2013
From: johnnae at mac.com (Johnna Holloway)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2013 16:12:25 -0400
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Scrambled eggs
In-Reply-To: <CALE-c-1hDQ=i3G0hR4SwBi-nLm_ytkAhvpsXocxC=hDoaCeiCw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALE-c-1hDQ=i3G0hR4SwBi-nLm_ytkAhvpsXocxC=hDoaCeiCw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D1785FC3-6A22-4A31-B9D5-CBADAB69DBCB@mac.com>

You might consider a mix of different grinds of black and white pepper and a couple of salts.

Johnnae

> Stefan wrote:
> 
>> I like these ideas of adding a medieval  spice mix to even modern food
>> items. I'll have to consider it. What  medieval spice mix would folks
>> recommend for scrambled eggs?
> 


From JIMCHEVAL at aol.com  Sat Mar 30 13:54:04 2013
From: JIMCHEVAL at aol.com (JIMCHEVAL at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2013 16:54:04 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Scrambled eggs
Message-ID: <242a3.640f468.3e88aaeb@aol.com>

There seem to have been a wealth of methods unknown to us today:
 
"Without even mentioning other dishes, can one say in how many ways eggs  
are transformed and tormented; what passion is put into turning them over,  
denaturing them, liquefying them, hardening them and reducing them? They are  
served fried, roasted, stuffed, scrambled; care is taken to give food an  
agreeable appearance, in order to please the view as much as taste; and  
curiosity is not yet satisfied when the stomach vigorously signals that it is  
full."
St. Bernard of Clairvaux (1090-1153)
 
 
If you take the meat out of the Enseignemenz' recipe for Faux Grenon ("Fake 
 Mustache"), you have something very scrambled-eggish:

"Fake grenon
If  you want to make fake grenon, take the liver and the gizzards, slice 
them up  fine; crush up bread and mix it with bouillon and set it to boil; and 
after put  in beaten egg yolks, and saffron mixed with wine, and then 
simmer and add milk,  and chop the meat up in fat; and boil it, stirring 
constantly, and then put in  the eggs and the saffron. And set out in bowls, and put 
powdered cinnamon,  ginger, and clove on it."
 
Taillevent's mustard soup recipe could be adapted as well:
 
"To Make Mustard Soup
 
For a fish day, fry eggs in oil or butter, and then use pure mustard,  
cinnamon, ginger, assorted spices such as cloves and seed, and sweeten  
moderately. Strain it all together and boil in a pot, and infuse it with  verjuice. 
Salt to taste, and put the broth apart."
 
Or instead of spitting these eggs, you could scramble them with the same  
flavorings:

"Eggs Roasted On The Spit
 
To roast stuffed eggs on the spit, make a small hole in the end of each  
egg, and take out what is inside. Then take sage, marjoram, pennyroyal, mint 
and  all other good herbs, and chop them up finely. Fry in butter, and the 
eggs, and  put on a plank and chop them up finely. Add in ginger, saffron and 
sugar. Then  put the stuffing in the egg shells. Take small, very fine 
skewers. Put a dozen  eggs on each skewer, and set on the grill over a low fire."
 
This sauce is said to be good on fried eggs; it would probably work with  
scrambled as well:

"Sauce With Must
 
To make sauce with must, remove grapes from the bunch and crush up in a  
frying pan, and boil on the fire seven or eight minutes. Put in a very little  
red Burgundy wine, with enough grapes, and strain it all through cloth. For 
four  servings, take two ounces of true cinnamon, two ounces of sugar, a 
half ounce of  ginger, and strain it all through the cloth, except the  sugar."

Personally, I'd still go for pepper and cumin. With, maybe, a  little Asian 
fish sauce, since the Franks still used garum.


Jim Chevallier
www.chezjim.com

A History of Coffee and  Other Refreshments in Early Modern France 
by Pierre Le Grand d'Aussy  

In a message dated 3/30/2013 1:12:35 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
johnnae at mac.com writes:
You might consider a mix of different grinds of black  and white pepper and 
a couple of salts.

Johnnae

> Stefan  wrote:
> 
>> I like these ideas of adding a medieval  spice  mix to even modern food
>> items. I'll have to consider it. What   medieval spice mix would folks
>> recommend for scrambled eggs?
>  

_______________________________________________
Sca-cooks mailing  list
Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org 
 

From dama.antonia at gmail.com  Sat Mar 30 16:10:20 2013
From: dama.antonia at gmail.com (Antonia di Benedetto Calvo)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2013 12:10:20 +1300
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Scrambled eggs
In-Reply-To: <CACAydn=30P0+3Az8aytqx-6RZTgAze=SE3oz560VABzpKGnM9g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALE-c-1hDQ=i3G0hR4SwBi-nLm_ytkAhvpsXocxC=hDoaCeiCw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACAydn=30P0+3Az8aytqx-6RZTgAze=SE3oz560VABzpKGnM9g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <515770DC.9010202@gmail.com>

On 30/03/2013 6:04 a.m., Beth Harper wrote:
> I made little 1/-oz packets of the al-Baghdadi seasoned salt recipe for
> feast tokens for a recent event, and we had a bunch of tokens left over,
> and I've been putting it on all sorts of stuff - I added it to egg salad
> yesterday in a sandwich and it was delicious; I'm sure it would be
> fantastic in scrambled eggs too! It's kosher salt, coriander, cumin,
> sesame, poppy, fennel, anise, and nigella.

That's a good idea or a token.  Ibn Warraq has a recipe that calls for 
salt, sumac, terebith, pomegranite seeds, cumin, asa foetida, polished 
sesame seeds, flax seeds, hemp seeds, and nigella.  I made it for a 
feast substituting juniper for terebinth and leaving out the hemp seeds 
and flax seeds, and it was very well received.

-- 
Antonia di Benedetto Calvo
-------------------------------------
Saccharum pergratum. Villum lubricum.


From lilinah at earthlink.net  Sun Mar 31 18:44:29 2013
From: lilinah at earthlink.net (lilinah at earthlink.net)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2013 18:44:29 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Scrambled eggs
Message-ID: <5008922.1364780669684.JavaMail.root@elwamui-muscovy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Stefan  wrote:
> I like these ideas of adding a medieval  spice  mix to even modern food
> items. I'll have to consider it. What   medieval spice mix would folks
> recommend for scrambled eggs?

I'm a fan of the Black & Strong Spices from the anonymous Venetian cookbook, late 14th or early 15th c. I have made it as a gift several times. I use equal weights of Black Pepper, Long Pepper, and Nutmeg, and 1/16 as much Cloves. I like it in scramble eggs, steamed vegetables, and almost anywhere you would use ordinary pepper.

Urtatim
in Portland Oregon
after attending and teaching at the West Coast Culinary Symposium


From dmyers at medievalcookery.com  Sun Mar 31 21:23:47 2013
From: dmyers at medievalcookery.com (Daniel Myers)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2013 21:23:47 -0700
Subject: [Sca-cooks] New recipe redaction
Message-ID: <20130331212347.ed12dd0b5fcfab5c7acb3c004d380fe9.bf7f0ee9d0.wbe@email04.secureserver.net>


Howdy,

Below is a link to a long recipe from the Wagstaff Miscellany (England,
14th c) that I finished redacting late yesterday.  It was pretty
straightforward, but looking back on the process I don't think it makes
as much sense to me now as it did when I started.

http://www.medievalcookery.com/poisson/redaction.html

Think I should go back to the original source?

- Doc