From alyskatharine at gmail.com Wed Oct 1 04:46:50 2014 From: alyskatharine at gmail.com (Elise Fleming) Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2014 07:46:50 -0400 Subject: [Sca-cooks] More Cookery Books Online Message-ID: <542BE9AA.7030602@gmail.com> Greetings! While these books are past the SCA period, some may give insight into recipes used in the 16th century. I can't remember if I - or someone else - reported this blog site and list of books, so here it is (again?). http://savoringthepast.net/2014/08/28/18th-and-early-19th-century-cookbooks-digital-searchable-and-free/ One book that is of potential interest is "England's Newest Way", published in 1708. It documents that the term "remove" is a new one, referring to one dish in a particular course which is "removed" and replaced with another to be served, while the remaining dishes stay on the table. (Of course it's 'course'! Remove 'remove'!) Have fun downloading and increasing your libraries! Alys K. -- Elise Fleming alyskatharine at gmail.com alysk at ix.netcom.com http://damealys.medievalcookery.com/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/8311418 at N08/sets/ From katjaorlova at yahoo.com Thu Oct 2 07:56:37 2014 From: katjaorlova at yahoo.com (Katja) Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2014 07:56:37 -0700 Subject: [Sca-cooks] Congratulations, Urtatim (lilinah@earthlink.net) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1412261797.75410.YahooMailNeo@web120803.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Wonderful news! Looking forward to hearing what you will teach. :) Katja >> I have been keeping the negotiations kinda quiet, since i'm not a Laurel and usually they only bring Laurels over. Apparently enough people are familiar with my work via internet and wanted me to come anyway. I had to submit some documents indicating what i can do and some letters of recommendation from people who have attended my classes. The plan is for me to go in the spring of 2015 to teach at Rowany Festival in/near Sydney, then to cross the continent at teach at another event in the Barony of Aneala in/near Perth. I am deeply deeply honored. From johnnae at mac.com Thu Oct 2 17:24:44 2014 From: johnnae at mac.com (Johnna Holloway) Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2014 20:24:44 -0400 Subject: [Sca-cooks] More Cookery Books Online In-Reply-To: <542BE9AA.7030602@gmail.com> References: <542BE9AA.7030602@gmail.com> Message-ID: And if you can't get this to cooperate, just use Google Books since these editions are lifted out of Google. The blogger notes "but I?m fairly certain that, as of the date of this post, it includes nearly every full-view 18th century English cookbook available free on Google Books. I?m still refining my early 19th century collection." Another interesting collection is the one at Michigan State has assembled of important American works http://digital.lib.msu.edu/projects/cookbooks/ Johnnae On Oct 1, 2014, at 7:46 AM, Elise Fleming wrote: > Greetings! While these books are past the SCA period, some may give insight into recipes used in the 16th century. I can't remember if I - or someone else - reported this blog site and list of books, so here it is (again?). > > http://savoringthepast.net/2014/08/28/18th-and-early-19th-century-cookbooks-digital-searchable-and-free/ > > One book that is of potential interest is "England's Newest Way", published in 1708. It documents that the term "remove" is a new one, referring to one dish in a particular course which is "removed" and replaced with another to be served, while the remaining dishes stay on the table. (Of course it's 'course'! Remove 'remove'!) > > Have fun downloading and increasing your libraries! > > Alys K. > -- From mistressaldyth at gmail.com Sun Oct 5 14:45:27 2014 From: mistressaldyth at gmail.com (Deborah Hammons) Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2014 15:45:27 -0600 Subject: [Sca-cooks] Parsnips Message-ID: Is there any documented source that says parsnips were processed like beets for sugar? Aldyth From johnnae at mac.com Sun Oct 5 15:00:13 2014 From: johnnae at mac.com (Johnna Holloway) Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2014 18:00:13 -0400 Subject: [Sca-cooks] Parsnips In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Are we talking prior to 1600 here? Is someone saying sugar beets were processed for sugar prior to 1600? Or that using parsnips for a type of sugar was being done prior to 1600 and that led in turn to sugar beet processing? Is there a source on online blog for where this question comes from? I know there are some odd ideas being floated out there these days. Johnnae Sent from my iPad > On Oct 5, 2014, at 5:45 PM, Deborah Hammons wrote: > > Is there any documented source that says parsnips were processed like beets > for sugar? > > Aldyth > _______________________________________________ From johnnae at mac.com Sun Oct 5 15:07:42 2014 From: johnnae at mac.com (Johnna Holloway) Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2014 18:07:42 -0400 Subject: [Sca-cooks] Parsnips In-Reply-To: References:

Message-ID: <7C0BAFF9-9766-4744-B1AD-D6678FF0A2E1@mac.com> A quick search found a few places that describe the sugar beets being used for 18th century sugar processing as resembling parsnips. Johnnae Sent from my iPad > >> On Oct 5, 2014, at 5:45 PM, Deborah Hammons wrote: >> >> Is there any documented source that says parsnips were processed like beets >> for sugar? >> >> Aldyth >> _______________________________________________ > From mistressaldyth at gmail.com Sun Oct 5 15:12:35 2014 From: mistressaldyth at gmail.com (Deborah Hammons) Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2014 16:12:35 -0600 Subject: [Sca-cooks] Parsnips In-Reply-To: References:

Message-ID: I was at an event yesterday where the discussion was cordial making and the "teacher" asserted there were period sources for that statement. It sure was news to me. I will get home tonight to do some more research. I hate typing on my phone..... Aldyth On Oct 5, 2014 4:00 PM, "Johnna Holloway" wrote: > Are we talking prior to 1600 here? Is someone saying sugar beets were > processed for sugar prior to 1600? Or that using parsnips for a type of > sugar was being done prior to 1600 and that led in turn to sugar beet > processing? > Is there a source on online blog for where this question comes from? I > know there are some odd ideas being floated out there these days. > > Johnnae > > Sent from my iPad > > > On Oct 5, 2014, at 5:45 PM, Deborah Hammons > wrote: > > > > Is there any documented source that says parsnips were processed like > beets > > for sugar? > > > > Aldyth > > _______________________________________________ > _______________________________________________ > Sca-cooks mailing list > Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org > http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org > From JIMCHEVAL at aol.com Sun Oct 5 15:37:39 2014 From: JIMCHEVAL at aol.com (JIMCHEVAL at aol.com) Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2014 18:37:39 -0400 Subject: [Sca-cooks] Parsnips Message-ID: <761e1.15246080.41632233@aol.com> Diderot's Encyclopedia talks about a kind of syrup being produced in Thuringia that was used like sugar: http://books.google.com/books?id=jcRkaf8X7O0C&pg=PA937&dq=panais+sucre&hl=en &sa=X&ei=eMYxVLPRNpLhoASyi4LwDg&ved=0CEAQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q&f=false This book from 1781 looks at "grained sugars" from the parsnip, carrot and skirret: http://books.google.com/books?id=u9YUAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA58&dq=sugar+parsnip&hl=en &sa=X&ei=mccxVMOlM46oogTekoCIBQ&ved=0CDIQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false Richard Bradley recommends parsnips as essentially substitutes for sugar: http://books.google.com/books?id=rd1QAQAAIAAJ&pg=RA1-PA43&dq=sugar+parsnip&h l=en&sa=X&ei=mccxVMOlM46oogTekoCIBQ&ved=0CD4Q6AEwAg#v=onepage&q&f=false Jim Chevallier Beside Bolivar: The Edec?n Demarquet https://www.createspace.com/4871441 "Demarquet does not know how to lie or slander; I believe him loyal and sincere." Simon Bolivar In a message dated 10/5/2014 2:45:32 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, mistressaldyth at gmail.com writes: Is there any documented source that says parsnips were processed like beets for sugar? From t.d.decker at att.net Sun Oct 5 16:14:26 2014 From: t.d.decker at att.net (Terry Decker) Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2014 18:14:26 -0500 Subject: [Sca-cooks] Parsnips In-Reply-To: References:

Message-ID: <5ACD591C333D459B999468718AA2B8C7@Vishnu> If he's got documentation on that, I want to see it. To my knowledge, the earliest reference to producing a sweet syrup from carrots and red beets is found in Olivier de Serres just at the end of the 16th Century. I don't recall parsnips being involved. Cane sugar was better than anything Serres could produce, so his work is essentially a one off cooking experiment. Andreas Sigismund Marggraf performed experiments to produce sugar with white beets in 1747, but his work was not commercial in nature. His student Franz Karl Achard began selective breeding of white beets about 35 years later. Achard improved the sugar content of the beets to the point commercial sugar production was possible. The first beet sugar plant opened in 1801. Commercial beet sugar became viable when Napoleon was cut off from West Indian sugar. There is some possibility that parsnips were used to produce a sweetener in the early American colonies when cane sugar was unavailable, but I haven't found a verifiable reference. Other than that, the references I find for parsnips being used to produce a sweetener are all modern and make a flat statement without supporting reference. I suspect an initial Victorian source copied without consideration of its factual basis. I'll look a little further later. Bear -----Original Message----- I was at an event yesterday where the discussion was cordial making and the "teacher" asserted there were period sources for that statement. It sure was news to me. I will get home tonight to do some more research. I hate typing on my phone..... Aldyth From JIMCHEVAL at aol.com Sun Oct 5 17:33:55 2014 From: JIMCHEVAL at aol.com (JIMCHEVAL at aol.com) Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2014 20:33:55 -0400 Subject: [Sca-cooks] Parsnips Message-ID: <78d89.48a554a3.41633d73@aol.com> Here's a mini-debate about whether de Serres had anteriority or not: _http://books.google.com/books?id=IlE6AQAAMAAJ&pg=PA110-IA9&dq=%22history+of +sugar%22+serres&hl=en&sa=X&ei=wt8xVNmeNcmxogSuoIKYDg&ved=0CCIQuwUwAA#v=onep age&q=%22history%20of%20sugar%22%20serres&f=false_ (http://books.google.com/books?id=IlE6AQAAMAAJ&pg=PA110-IA9&dq="history+of+sugar"+serres&hl=en&sa=X&e i=wt8xVNmeNcmxogSuoIKYDg&ved=0CCIQuwUwAA#v=onepage&q="history%20of%20sugar"% 20serres&f=false) Here's his note on the beet, which he says had recently come from Italy. He seems more interested in the nice look of the sugar like syrup than its actual taste: _http://books.google.com/books?id=OilAAAAAcAAJ&dq=inauthor%3Aserres&pg=PA483 #v=onepage&q&f=false_ (http://books.google.com/books?id=OilAAAAAcAAJ&dq=inauthor:serres&pg=PA483#v=onepage&q&f=false) I don't see anything about sugar under carrots. Jim Chevallier Beside Bolivar: The Edec?n Demarquet https://www.createspace.com/4871441 "Demarquet does not know how to lie or slander; I believe him loyal and sincere." Simon Bolivar In a message dated 10/5/2014 4:14:32 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, t.d.decker at att.net writes: To my knowledge, the earliest reference to producing a sweet syrup from carrots and red beets is found in Olivier de Serres just at the end of the 16th Century. From t.d.decker at att.net Sun Oct 5 18:25:50 2014 From: t.d.decker at att.net (Terry Decker) Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2014 20:25:50 -0500 Subject: [Sca-cooks] Parsnips In-Reply-To: <5ACD591C333D459B999468718AA2B8C7@Vishnu> References:

<5ACD591C333D459B999468718AA2B8C7@Vishnu> Message-ID: <6373DAA15F95412B8E0586AE1D61F420@Vishnu> Mellita Weiss Adamson and Alan Davidson both state that parsnips were used for sweetening in Medieval Europe, but neither provides a reference to support the statement. Davidson does provide a reference to Dorothy Hartley's Food in England, 1954, for a reference as to parsnips being used in the base for some puddings for the sweet flavor they impart to the honey (or at least as I understand the reference). I don't have access to a copy of the work, so I haven't been able to verify the full reference. Hartley's work is on "traditional" English cooking, so the reference may or may not be within period. The Wiki entry says they were used as a sweetener in Europe before the arrival of cane sugar, which leaves the question, is this arrival the Greek medicine of around 300 BCE or the cultivation from around 1000 CE or something in between? The following sentence in the entry, "It (the parsnip) was introduced into the United States in the Nineteenth Century.", is demonstrably false, as parsnips were introduced into the Jamestown settlement along with a number of other vegetables in the resupply of 1609 (and 1610). The conclusion I reach is parsnips may have been used for sweetening in some dishes by cooking them into a base (and probably with honey) although I find little supporting evidence. That they were processed like beets to produce sugar is probably false. Beet sugar production requires cleaning and settling steps that do not occur in cane sugar production. Beet sugar production also required a hybridized beet and modern industrial capabilities before it could be profitable. Without some serious documentation to back up the claim, I'd say the guy was blowing smoke. Bear From alyskatharine at gmail.com Mon Oct 6 06:13:51 2014 From: alyskatharine at gmail.com (Elise Fleming) Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2014 09:13:51 -0400 Subject: [Sca-cooks] Parsnips Message-ID: <5432958F.7020803@gmail.com> Greetings! Bear wrote: "Mellita Weiss Adamson and Alan Davidson both state that parsnips were used for sweetening in Medieval Europe, but neither provides a reference to support the statement. Davidson does provide a reference to Dorothy Hartley's Food in England, 1954, for a reference as to parsnips being used in the base for some puddings for the sweet flavor they impart to the honey (or at least as I understand the reference). I don't have access to a copy of the work, so I haven't been able to verify the full reference. Hartley's work is on "traditional" English cooking, so the reference may or may not be within period." I scanned the Hartley's 1954 pudding chapter for any mention of parsnips and came up with nothing. This is what she says in her section on Parsnips: "It was the sweet flavour of the parsnip that was so much liked...It often figures in sweet dishes, and the green tops were fed to cows as late as the nineteenth century...Also, it is the type of sweetness that mingles with honey and spice, so that some boiled plum and marrowfat puddings, flavoured with spice and sweetened with honey, were made with a parsnip base." Note that Hartley says those puddings were sweetened with honey, not parsnips, although their sweet flavor might have contributed when used as a base for the plum and marrowfat puddings. Might this have been what was referred to? Alys K. -- Elise Fleming alyskatharine at gmail.com alysk at ix.netcom.com http://damealys.medievalcookery.com/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/8311418 at N08/sets/ From t.d.decker at att.net Mon Oct 6 07:18:07 2014 From: t.d.decker at att.net (Terry Decker) Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2014 09:18:07 -0500 Subject: [Sca-cooks] Parsnips In-Reply-To: <5432958F.7020803@gmail.com> References: <5432958F.7020803@gmail.com> Message-ID: <44F21B4B5F0B4B3285D7ABE58898765A@Vishnu> I've checked a series of herbals, including Gerard and Culpepper and there is no reference to parsnips being used as sweetener. However, Gerard gives a pointer to Hugh Plat. I think Gerard is referencing Plat's work on how to alleviate hunger among the poor, but Plat also provides this: 60. Sweet Cakes without either spice or sugar. Scrape and wash your Parsnips clean, slice them thin, dry them upon Canvas or network frames, beat them to powder mixing one third thereof with two thirds of fine wheat flour, make up your paste into coats, and you shall find them very sweet and delicate. Hugh Plat, Delights for Ladies, 1609 I assume ?coats? in this context means a thin layer making this a type of cookie recipe. Not exactly a recipe for a general purpose sweetener. Thank you for checking the reference in Hartley. Bear Note that Hartley says those puddings were sweetened with honey, not parsnips, although their sweet flavor might have contributed when used as a base for the plum and marrowfat puddings. Might this have been what was referred to? Alys K. From mistressaldyth at gmail.com Mon Oct 6 07:35:29 2014 From: mistressaldyth at gmail.com (Deborah Hammons) Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2014 08:35:29 -0600 Subject: [Sca-cooks] Parsnips In-Reply-To: <44F21B4B5F0B4B3285D7ABE58898765A@Vishnu> References: <5432958F.7020803@gmail.com> <44F21B4B5F0B4B3285D7ABE58898765A@Vishnu> Message-ID: Thanks everybody. Finally got to the real computer. I think I can forward information on to the teacher that the source(s) that were referenced were horse hockey. Does anyone know Dame Alice in An Tir? This was on a hand written note in the "documentation" listed for the class, and it was from 1998. I am going to attribute this one to total ignorance, not malice. Reminds me of the documentation I saw listing Fabulous Feasts as a source for the Saint Johns Rice.......and so totally authentic...... Aldyth On Mon, Oct 6, 2014 at 8:18 AM, Terry Decker wrote: > I've checked a series of herbals, including Gerard and Culpepper and there > is no reference to parsnips being used as sweetener. However, Gerard gives > a pointer to Hugh Plat. I think Gerard is referencing Plat's work on how > to alleviate hunger among the poor, but Plat also provides this: > > 60. Sweet Cakes without either spice or sugar. > > Scrape and wash your Parsnips clean, slice them thin, dry them upon Canvas > or network frames, beat them to powder mixing one third thereof with two > thirds of fine wheat flour, make up your paste into coats, and you shall > find them very sweet and delicate. > > Hugh Plat, Delights for Ladies, 1609 > > I assume ?coats? in this context means a thin layer making this a type of > cookie recipe. Not exactly a recipe for a general purpose sweetener. > > Thank you for checking the reference in Hartley. > > Bear > > > > Note that Hartley says those puddings were sweetened with honey, not > parsnips, although their sweet flavor might have contributed when used > as a base for the plum and marrowfat puddings. Might this have been what > was referred to? > > Alys K. > > _______________________________________________ > Sca-cooks mailing list > Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org > http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org > From johnnae at mac.com Mon Oct 6 08:55:49 2014 From: johnnae at mac.com (Johnna Holloway) Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2014 11:55:49 -0400 Subject: [Sca-cooks] Parsnips In-Reply-To: <59AC6F38-9784-4F6B-9EFF-4E2F9852ED1A@mac.com> References: <5432958F.7020803@gmail.com> <44F21B4B5F0B4B3285D7ABE58898765A@Vishnu> <59AC6F38-9784-4F6B-9EFF-4E2F9852ED1A@mac.com> Message-ID: <7FE45F55-C56A-4100-8266-A9AE183F7D8C@mac.com> Just an additional note on the subject. I checked EEBO-TCP this am. The full text section has over 47,000 items now. > From Langham, William. The garden of health conteyning the sundry rare and hidden vertues and properties of all kindes of simples and plants? 1579. > Parsnips. > > PArsnips: the rootes sodden tender and eaten, cause vrine, and are good against melancholly. > > 2 The garden Parsnip eaten with meate, ingendreth good blood, and the wilde Parsnip eaten of women, moueth termes. > > 3 The roote hangd about the necke, helpeth the swelling of the throte, & no venemous thing shall hurt him that carrieth it about him. > > 4 The seede drunke with wine and also applied to the Matrixe, prouoketh termes, and helpeth the straitnesse of making water, the paine of the side called thepleurisy > > 5 The roote applyed plasterwise, helpeth venemous bitings or stingings. > > 6 The roote sodden & eaten, prouoketh vrin & venery. > > 7 The leaues stampt with hony and applied, doth clense and heale vlcers that eate greatly into the flesh. > > 8 The herbe with the root shreaded & distilled about the ende of March, and the water drunke three ounces morne & euen, and the palsie members also anoynted therewith or bathed, helpeth their shaking. > > 9 The roots eaten in meates, yeeld better nourishment then Carrots. > > 10 The water drunke euery night sixe ounces, prouoketh venery and sperme in man, & helpeth the straitnesse in making of water: milke to cause, vse the roote or seedes. > > 11 The roote prouoketh vrine, swageth paine of the side, expelleth winde of the belly, and is good for them that be bruised. > > 12 The roots eaten, are good for the lungs, breast and reines. > > 13 The seed of the wilde Parsnip is good against all poyson, it healeth all venemous bitings & stingings being drunke in wine, and is so excellent good for this purpose, that when stags or rather wilde Harts haue eaten of it, no venemous beasts may hurt them. > > 15 The seede of wilde Parsnips drunke, prouoketh > termes and vrine, helpe the dropsie, resist poison and all venemous bitings, and helpe conception. > > 15 This herbe applyed into the Matrixe by a skilfull Midwife stampt, draweth foorth the dead childe. > > 16 And stampt with Hony, it cureth spreadingulcers. > > 17 Those of the garden are more apt to meate then the wilde. > > 18 Teeth ache and wormes, rub them with the roote. > > 19 Matrixe suffocat. drinke the seedes in wine. > > 20 Milke to increase, seeth the rootes with Fennell rootes in chicken broth, and eate it with a little fresh butter. 21 Loynes paine, drinke the seeds. > > 22 Swellings of womens bellies as if they were with childe, drinke one ounce of the seedes morne andeven. > > 23 Parsnips ingender thicke blood and naturall seed being much vsed, and therefore are good for them that haue bene long sicke, and they may bee eaten raw or sodden against melancholly humors, either greene or drie. > > 24 To prouoke lust and helpe digestion, boyle the roots first in water and slice them, and seeth them againe in fresh water, and put thereto clarified Honie, and boyle them to the thickenesse of Hony, and in the ende, put thereto Almonds if you haue them, and then put thereto Ginger, Galingale, and a little Pepper and Nutmegs, and other sweete sauouring spices, and vse it, or seeth them soft, and cut them small, and seethe them againe in Hony, some streine them and seethe them in water and Hony together, and stirre them well, that they cleaue not to the vessell, and in the midst of the seething, put Almonds in powder, and then Ginger, Nut?megs & Cinomom ana i. ounce, it moueth lust & helpeth digestion. > > > I also found this late 1674 recipe from A supplement to The queen-like closet, or, A little of everything presented to all ingenious ladies, and gentlewomen by Woolley, Hannah, > To stew Parsnips: A good Dish. > > Boil the tenderest Parsnips very well, then scrape them very clean, and cut them in two, and then slit them in half; put them in a Dish vvith some White vvine, vvhole Mace, grated Nutmeg, and a little > Salt; vvhen they have stewed close co?vered one hour, then put in some pieces of Marrow, and a little Sugar; then stew them very vvell, and a little before you take them up, put in a little Butter, and shake them vvell together, and serve them in. Garnish your Dish vvith thin slices of boiled Parsnip, and fine Sugar beaten and searched. > > But even here we see sugar is added. > Johnnae > > > > On Oct 6, 2014, at 10:35 AM, Deborah Hammons wrote: > >> Thanks everybody. Finally got to the real computer. From t.d.decker at att.net Mon Oct 6 10:18:02 2014 From: t.d.decker at att.net (Terry Decker) Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2014 12:18:02 -0500 Subject: [Sca-cooks] Parsnips In-Reply-To: References: <5432958F.7020803@gmail.com><44F21B4B5F0B4B3285D7ABE58898765A@Vishnu> Message-ID: <7373DDE4B6044D7988151D455E59560E@Vishnu> If you have them, could you kindly post the information on the original sources. I'm interested in seeing where this comes from. Ignorance, perhaps, but more likely accepting authority without verification, something that has bitten me a time or twice. It's hard to thoroughly vet every factoid and what usually really gets you is a throwaway comment by a respected researcher. Everybody makes errors. Lord knows, I've made plenty. All you can do is move forward, learn more and correct your ideas. Bear Thanks everybody. Finally got to the real computer. I think I can forward information on to the teacher that the source(s) that were referenced were horse hockey. Does anyone know Dame Alice in An Tir? This was on a hand written note in the "documentation" listed for the class, and it was from 1998. I am going to attribute this one to total ignorance, not malice. Reminds me of the documentation I saw listing Fabulous Feasts as a source for the Saint Johns Rice.......and so totally authentic...... Aldyth From mistressaldyth at gmail.com Mon Oct 6 10:19:02 2014 From: mistressaldyth at gmail.com (Deborah Hammons) Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2014 11:19:02 -0600 Subject: [Sca-cooks] Parsnips In-Reply-To: <7373DDE4B6044D7988151D455E59560E@Vishnu> References: <5432958F.7020803@gmail.com> <44F21B4B5F0B4B3285D7ABE58898765A@Vishnu> <7373DDE4B6044D7988151D455E59560E@Vishnu> Message-ID: I am supposed to get a copy of the hand out today or tomorrow. You bet. Aldyth On Mon, Oct 6, 2014 at 11:18 AM, Terry Decker wrote: > If you have them, could you kindly post the information on the original > sources. I'm interested in seeing where this comes from. > > Ignorance, perhaps, but more likely accepting authority without > verification, something that has bitten me a time or twice. It's hard to > thoroughly vet every factoid and what usually really gets you is a > throwaway comment by a respected researcher. Everybody makes errors. Lord > knows, I've made plenty. All you can do is move forward, learn more and > correct your ideas. > > Bear > > > Thanks everybody. Finally got to the real computer. I think I can forward > information on to the teacher that the source(s) that were referenced were > horse hockey. Does anyone know Dame Alice in An Tir? This was on a hand > written note in the "documentation" listed for the class, and it was from > 1998. I am going to attribute this one to total ignorance, not malice. > Reminds me of the documentation I saw listing Fabulous Feasts as a source > for the Saint Johns Rice.......and so totally authentic...... > > Aldyth > > _______________________________________________ > Sca-cooks mailing list > Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org > http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org > From dama.antonia at gmail.com Mon Oct 6 16:59:08 2014 From: dama.antonia at gmail.com (Antonia Calvo) Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2014 12:59:08 +1300 Subject: [Sca-cooks] Parsnips In-Reply-To: <7C0BAFF9-9766-4744-B1AD-D6678FF0A2E1@mac.com> References:

<7C0BAFF9-9766-4744-B1AD-D6678FF0A2E1@mac.com> Message-ID: <54332CCC.9090405@gmail.com> On 6/10/2014 11:07 a.m., Johnna Holloway wrote: > A quick search found a few places that describe the sugar beets being used for 18th century sugar processing as resembling parsnips. Sugar beets *do* look kind of like parsnips. They're still beets, though :-) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sugar_beet -- Antonia di Benedetto CalvoLoyse ------------------------------------- Saccharum pergratum. Villum lubricum. From StefanliRous at gmail.com Tue Oct 7 17:09:45 2014 From: StefanliRous at gmail.com (Stefan li Rous) Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2014 19:09:45 -0500 Subject: [Sca-cooks] Parsnips Message-ID: <34952C03-C837-4BE6-9C5D-A7F2762D8619@gmail.com> I often save many of these ?false? trails or assertions later shown to be wrong, is so that the actual facts and supporting info is saved somewhere. Perhaps this will keep future researchers, especially SCA folks, from continuing or recreating the original mis-step. Unfortunately, these side-paths even when they are dead-ends, do make files, in this case the sugar-msg file, longer. It is amazing to see all these different bits of research come together from different people and sources. For people new to this list, are there any?, this kind of statement is why the folks on this list are very likely to ask ?What are your references?, Do you have any supporting evidence for that statement?" Stefan <<< Ignorance, perhaps, but more likely accepting authority without verification, something that has bitten me a time or twice. It's hard to thoroughly vet every factoid and what usually really gets you is a throwaway comment by a respected researcher. Everybody makes errors. Lord knows, I've made plenty. All you can do is move forward, learn more and correct your ideas. Bear >>> -------- THLord Stefan li Rous Barony of Bryn Gwlad Kingdom of Ansteorra Mark S. Harris Austin, Texas StefanliRous at gmail.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/marksharris **** See Stefan's Florilegium files at: http://www.florilegium.org **** From chefchristy at kingstaste.com Thu Oct 9 10:04:25 2014 From: chefchristy at kingstaste.com (Chef Christy) Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2014 13:04:25 -0400 Subject: [Sca-cooks] I think I lit a small fire last night Message-ID: <0D211F12E5A54E13AF803D68ECAF0434@Plantagenet> My new roommate works in the restaurant industry, and is dating a nice young man that is also. I got to meet him last night, after he worked two very long shifts. He has a server job at night, but during the day he works as a cook for the World Congress Center here in Atlanta, and regularly helps to prepare meals for tens of thousands of people every day. I was asking him about the staff, guessing they would need a cook staff of roughly a hundred or so to manage that facility. He pretty much confirmed that, with 25 - 30 in the Garde Manger kitchen, another 2 teams of 25 - 30 in Banquet, then additional folks in Pastry and assorted other positions. I said: "Escoffier would be proud." I was met with blank stares. I said "Do you know who Escoffier was?" and they both said they did not, so I gave them a brief run-down of the King of Chefs, telling them about Peach Melba, the Corps de Cuisine, and the black tome "The Escoffier Cook Book". A little while later, I pulled the book off my shelf and handed it to him. Now here is a kid with little formal training, but tons of OTJ. He could brunoise with the best of them, but didn't know any of the background of why he was doing it. He couldn't put the book down. My copy is well annotated with loads of post-it notes marking sections such as Sauces, Meats, etc. He started finding the names of dishes he made regularly, and was fascinated. I saw a light come on in his exhausted head as he turned the pages. He would put it down for a minute and then pick it back up again. I hope he goes in to his enormous work place among an army of cooks today with a new appreciation for his profession, and a fire lit under him to learn more about it. It sure was fun to watch that fire kindle into being. Christianna aka Ask Chef Christy ;) From guillanedv at aol.com Thu Oct 9 10:25:59 2014 From: guillanedv at aol.com (guillanedv at aol.com) Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2014 12:25:59 -0500 Subject: [Sca-cooks] I think I lit a small fire last night In-Reply-To: <0D211F12E5A54E13AF803D68ECAF0434@Plantagenet> References: <0D211F12E5A54E13AF803D68ECAF0434@Plantagenet> Message-ID: <20141009172559.5992594.52782.6202@aol.com> All of my textbooks from culinary school pay homage to Careme and Escoffier. Hope they both get a chance to get some "official" training. Guillane Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone on the Verizon Wireless 4G LTE network. ? Original Message ? From: Chef Christy Sent: Thursday, October 9, 2014 12:09 PM To: 'Cooks within the SCA' Reply To: Cooks within the SCA Subject: [Sca-cooks] I think I lit a small fire last night My new roommate works in the restaurant industry, and is dating a nice young man that is also. I got to meet him last night, after he worked two very long shifts. He has a server job at night, but during the day he works as a cook for the World Congress Center here in Atlanta, and regularly helps to prepare meals for tens of thousands of people every day. I was asking him about the staff, guessing they would need a cook staff of roughly a hundred or so to manage that facility. He pretty much confirmed that, with 25 - 30 in the Garde Manger kitchen, another 2 teams of 25 - 30 in Banquet, then additional folks in Pastry and assorted other positions. I said: "Escoffier would be proud." I was met with blank stares. I said "Do you know who Escoffier was?" and they both said they did not, so I gave them a brief run-down of the King of Chefs, telling them about Peach Melba, the Corps de Cuisine, and the black tome "The Escoffier Cook Book". A little while later, I pulled the book off my shelf and handed it to him. Now here is a kid with little formal training, but tons of OTJ. He could brunoise with the best of them, but didn't know any of the background of why he was doing it. He couldn't put the book down. My copy is well annotated with loads of post-it notes marking sections such as Sauces, Meats, etc. He started finding the names of dishes he made regularly, and was fascinated. I saw a light come on in his exhausted head as he turned the pages. He would put it down for a minute and then pick it back up again. I hope he goes in to his enormous work place among an army of cooks today with a new appreciation for his profession, and a fire lit under him to learn more about it. It sure was fun to watch that fire kindle into being. Christianna aka Ask Chef Christy ;) _______________________________________________ Sca-cooks mailing list Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org From jjterlouw at earthlink.net Thu Oct 9 12:17:10 2014 From: jjterlouw at earthlink.net (Mairi Ceilidh) Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2014 15:17:10 -0400 Subject: [Sca-cooks] I think I lit a small fire last night In-Reply-To: <0D211F12E5A54E13AF803D68ECAF0434@Plantagenet> References: <0D211F12E5A54E13AF803D68ECAF0434@Plantagenet> Message-ID: <00ef01cfe3f5$9fdf06c0$df9d1440$@earthlink.net> HUZZAH! Don't you just love it when you can nudge all that spark into a real flame? Mairi Ceilidh -----Original Message----- From: Sca-cooks [mailto:sca-cooks-bounces+jjterlouw=earthlink.net at lists.ansteorra.org] On Behalf Of Chef Christy Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2014 1:04 PM To: 'Cooks within the SCA' Subject: [Sca-cooks] I think I lit a small fire last night My new roommate works in the restaurant industry, and is dating a nice young man that is also. I got to meet him last night, after he worked two very long shifts. He has a server job at night, but during the day he works as a cook for the World Congress Center here in Atlanta, and regularly helps to prepare meals for tens of thousands of people every day. I was asking him about the staff, guessing they would need a cook staff of roughly a hundred or so to manage that facility. He pretty much confirmed that, with 25 - 30 in the Garde Manger kitchen, another 2 teams of 25 - 30 in Banquet, then additional folks in Pastry and assorted other positions. I said: "Escoffier would be proud." I was met with blank stares. I said "Do you know who Escoffier was?" and they both said they did not, so I gave them a brief run-down of the King of Chefs, telling them about Peach Melba, the Corps de Cuisine, and the black tome "The Escoffier Cook Book". A little while later, I pulled the book off my shelf and handed it to him. Now here is a kid with little formal training, but tons of OTJ. He could brunoise with the best of them, but didn't know any of the background of why he was doing it. He couldn't put the book down. My copy is well annotated with loads of post-it notes marking sections such as Sauces, Meats, etc. He started finding the names of dishes he made regularly, and was fascinated. I saw a light come on in his exhausted head as he turned the pages. He would put it down for a minute and then pick it back up again. I hope he goes in to his enormous work place among an army of cooks today with a new appreciation for his profession, and a fire lit under him to learn more about it. It sure was fun to watch that fire kindle into being. Christianna aka Ask Chef Christy ;) _______________________________________________ Sca-cooks mailing list Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org From johnnae at mac.com Sun Oct 12 18:56:20 2014 From: johnnae at mac.com (Johnna Holloway) Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2014 21:56:20 -0400 Subject: [Sca-cooks] Feast Survey results are online! References: Message-ID: <609E669B-6A1A-40A8-B758-AAAE451BC19C@mac.com> Forwarded by request Johnnae > Howdy! For those who were interested in the results of the Feast Survey from earlier this year, they are now available! Information from our web administrator, Antonio (see below) has the link. Thanks so much to all who took the time to complete the Survey! > > Kathy Anderson (Wulfwen Atte Belle)? > > At long last, I'm thrilled to announce that the feast survey results (from the survey completed in March) have been tabulated and published, along with a special edition of the Sterncast - the Barony of Sternfeld Podcast. > > Please find links to the results online at http://www.midrealm.org/sternfeld/feast.php > > Information is available in both Microsoft Office and Google Docs formats. > > Congrats to Mistress Wulfwen and all the cooks, who came together to design the survey and process the results. There's a lot of good information in there - I encourage everyone to read at least the Summary document if not the actual survey responses themselves. There were many people who came together and made this project possible - now to start using the results! > > Feel free to cascade this information to other lists throughout the Knowne World - especially if you sent the original survey link out - we want to make sure thing thing gets as wide a distribution as possible. > Yours in Service, > ~Antonio > > > > > > ? ? __,_._,___ From StefanliRous at gmail.com Sun Oct 12 22:11:03 2014 From: StefanliRous at gmail.com (Stefan li Rous) Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2014 00:11:03 -0500 Subject: [Sca-cooks] Stefan's Florilegium article for October 2014 Message-ID: <379EDBDC-C7BE-456E-AC25-C75699F323D1@gmail.com> Greetings to the Gentlefolk of the SCA, Here is a copy of my Florilegium article for October, detailing what is new in the Florilegium this month. For those of you wanting an easier way to see everything is in the Florilegium, all 2500+ files, without paging through subsection after subsection, you can now do so by looking at or downloading the filelist-list. I have just uploaded the newest version of this file. I am always looking for good articles for the Florilegium. If you have researched something in our period or you practice a little known art or craft, writing an article is an excellent way to introduce others to the work you've done. I'm especially interested in academic papers written for A&S contests because, unfortunately, few have time at such an event to read them. Even the judges. Getting them published in the Florilegium lets your hard word benefit the entire Known World. Word format is the easiest for me to handle, but others are possible. You don't have to be finished with your research or have a "perfect" article. Other people can still learn from and be inspired by what you've already done. You keep the copyright and you can always update it in the future. If you're already sent something, but haven't heard back from me, please feel free to email me again. Possibly I didn't get it or I'm waiting for additional permissions or for answers to some questions or even simply having trouble with the original article format. If you see an article in a kingdom, guild or local newsletter that you think others might find useful or interesting, please consider sending me a note about it. I would appreciate the author's contact info if you have it. I will not add an article to the Florilegium without the author's permission, but many authors are too inhibited to send me their own work. If you like an article, then chances are other SCA folks will as well. I am also looking for a few volunteers to help with the Florilegium article postings. I need a backup representative for the Drachenwald mail list for when my first representative, Alasdair is out of town. Because of mail list problems, I can read the Yahoo NEWCOMERS list, but not post to it. I would like a volunteer who would forward my occasional posts to that list. While my intent is to post to all kingdom lists, it is possible that this isn?t happening. If you are aware of this posting, but have not seen it on your kingdom list, please let me know. Also if you are on another list where this article doesn?t appear, but you think it would be appreciated, please contact me. Thanks, Stefan ???? A Blending of the Past and Present Over the past twenty-five years in an ongoing effort, I have been collecting bits of useful information from various newsgroups, mail lists and articles submitted to me by their authors. In order to make this information available to others, I have placed this information in a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. The Florilegium is on the web at: http://www.florilegium.org For those who would like to see a complete listing of the files in the Florilegium, without paging through subsection after subsection, I have just updated the filelist. Just click on the filelist-list at the top of any section. You can also download this in RTF format and print it out, but be aware that it is now about 60 pages long. I am always interested in new articles. If you have written an article that would be of interest to others in the SCA, please send it to me for possible inclusion in the Florilegium. A&S documentation and class handouts will also often work well. I am especially interested in research papers submitted as A&S entries. THLord Stefan li Rous Ansteorra stefan at florilegium.org Here are the new files for this month: In the CRAFTS section: LWax-casting-msg Lost wax casting of metals. http://www.florilegium.org/files/CRAFTS/LWax-casting-msg.html pyrography-msg Burning designs into wood. Pyrography. http://www.florilegium.org/files/CRAFTS/pyrography-msg.html In the FEASTS section: p-fst-servng-msg Comments on how feasts were served in period. http://www.florilegium.org/files/FEASTS/p-fst-serving-msg.html In the PENNSIC section: P-showers-msg Info on the showers at Pennsic. http://www.florilegium.org/files/PENNSIC/P-showers-msg.html In the PERFORMANCE ARTS section: Poetry-14-15C-bib Links to late 14th and early 15th Century poets and poetry by Deirdre O'Bardon. http://florilegium.org/html/files/PERFORMANCE-ARTS/Poetry-14-15C-bib.html In the PERSONAS section: Per-Scotland-art "Scotland: an overview for the persona-challenged" by Hector of the Black Height. http://www.florilegium.org/files/PERSONAS/Per-Scotland-art.html In the STRUCTURES section: Pav-Decoratg-art "Decorating Your Pavilion" by mistress katherine kerr. http://www.florilegium.org/files/DWELLINGS/Pav-Decoratg-art.html Updated files: capers-msg Use of capers in medieval food. casting-msg Casting pewter and other metals. cl-Anglo-Saxn-msg Clothing of the Anglo-Saxons. fd-Italy-msg Period Italian food. Cookbooks. Ireland-msg Irish culture, dress. Points of interest. porridges-msg Period porridges and gruels. p-street-food-msg Period street food. SCA-romance-msg SCA romances and meeting SOs in the SCA. Scotch-Eggs-msg Fried sausage-wrapped hard-boiled eggs. underwear-msg What to wear under garb. SCA and period. vanilla-msg The vanilla bean in late-period Europe. ---- Copyright 2014, Mark S. Harris. Permission to reprint in SCA-related publications is hereby granted if the file descriptions are left unchanged. Removing any of the updated files listed in order to fit the article into limited publication space is allowed. The article introduction may also be edited, provided the web address and contact info are retained. -------- THLord Stefan li Rous Barony of Bryn Gwlad Kingdom of Ansteorra Mark S. Harris Austin, Texas StefanliRous at gmail.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/marksharris **** See Stefan's Florilegium files at: http://www.florilegium.org **** From sjk3 at cornell.edu Wed Oct 15 08:20:10 2014 From: sjk3 at cornell.edu (Sandra J. Kisner) Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2014 15:20:10 +0000 Subject: [Sca-cooks] origins of genoise/sponge cake Message-ID: <7cd8abc99f984260a33f7675a224012b@BN1PR04MB405.namprd04.prod.outlook.com> Joe Pastry is writing about genoise these days (an offshoot of a Black Forest Cake post), and was asked where it came from. He speculates, but does anybody here have more (or better) information? He says it may have begun mid-16th century: http://www.joepastry.com/2014/where-does-genoise-come-from/ (I like how the first reference in English seems to have come from Jane Austen.) Sandra From johnnae at mac.com Wed Oct 15 09:02:23 2014 From: johnnae at mac.com (Johnna Holloway) Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2014 12:02:23 -0400 Subject: [Sca-cooks] origins of genoise/sponge cake In-Reply-To: <7cd8abc99f984260a33f7675a224012b@BN1PR04MB405.namprd04.prod.outlook.com> References: <7cd8abc99f984260a33f7675a224012b@BN1PR04MB405.namprd04.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: Food Timeline indicates 19th century. http://www.foodtimeline.org/foodcakes.html#genoise Michael Krondl goes into the subject in a footnote in his Sweet Invention: A History of Dessert volume. See page 152. He says name is 19th century. I have a post surgical appt today to see about the ankle. They took the hardware out last Thursday. If I am able, I'll try some of my academic sources later. Johnnae Sent from my iPad > On Oct 15, 2014, at 11:20 AM, Sandra J. Kisner wrote: > > Joe Pastry is writing about genoise these days (an offshoot of a Black Forest Cake post), and was asked where it came from. He speculates, but does anybody here have more (or better) information? He says it may have begun mid-16th century: http://www.joepastry.com/2014/where-does-genoise-come-from/ (I like how the first reference in English seems to have come from Jane Austin. From StefanliRous at gmail.com Wed Oct 22 16:57:05 2014 From: StefanliRous at gmail.com (Stefan li Rous) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2014 18:57:05 -0500 Subject: [Sca-cooks] illusion foods Message-ID: <23860013-7A2E-4366-96D9-432E08307D39@gmail.com> Back in July, Johnnae posted: <<< Article on Heston Blumenthal and the serving of "meat fruit" http://eater.com/archives/2014/07/11/meat-fruit-dinner-by-heston-blumenthal-london.php BTW, the award winning book Historic Heston is slated for an inexpensive edition to be priced at $50. >>> Wow. That meat fruit sure looks like a tangerine. I?m really amazed. A LOT of work though. In the article it says <<< "The 15 hours of work daily though pay off in service ? which is "dead easy" Palmer-Watts says ? and with the customers. Meat Fruit is more than just a hit dish. "People are getting their picture taken with the dish, not only taking pictures of the dish,? >>> I?ve heard of an occasional, very good illusion food having been made in the SCA. Has anyone ever had folks taking ?selfies? of themselves with the food you?ve created? I?d love to hear some stories about successful illusion foods that you?ve done. And if period in style, I?d love to get photos that I could put in a Florilegium file to encourage others. Thanks, Stefan One of the files in the Florilegium on illusion foods. I probably ought to move it from the FOOD section to the SWEET AND DECORATED FOODS section, but later, when I find the time. illusion-fds-msg (147K) 12/13/13 Medieval illusion foods. Disguised food. http://www.florilegium.org/files/FOOD/illusion-fds-msg.html -------- THLord Stefan li Rous Barony of Bryn Gwlad Kingdom of Ansteorra Mark S. Harris Austin, Texas StefanliRous at gmail.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/marksharris **** See Stefan's Florilegium files at: http://www.florilegium.org **** From alyskatharine at gmail.com Mon Oct 27 12:43:25 2014 From: alyskatharine at gmail.com (Elise Fleming) Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2014 15:43:25 -0400 Subject: [Sca-cooks] CA on Sugar Paste Sculptures Message-ID: <544EA05D.7080408@gmail.com> Greetings! If you haven't received a copy of the recent Compleat Anachronist, it is Issue #165, "Sculptural Sugar Paste: A Subtlety Art", written by Wendy Marques (Alesone Gray of Cranlegh). Wendy/Alesone describes how she made some of her sculptures which includes details of various sugar paste formulae. It's an interesting addition to the craft of sugar paste. Alys K. -- Elise Fleming alyskatharine at gmail.com alysk at ix.netcom.com http://damealys.medievalcookery.com/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/8311418 at N08/sets/ From rdownie at mts.net Mon Oct 27 14:08:24 2014 From: rdownie at mts.net (rdownie at mts.net) Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2014 16:08:24 -0500 Subject: [Sca-cooks] illusion foods In-Reply-To: <23860013-7A2E-4366-96D9-432E08307D39@gmail.com> References: <23860013-7A2E-4366-96D9-432E08307D39@gmail.com> Message-ID: I have created many stand alone subtleties & illusion foods over the years as well as 2 illusion food heavy feasts. The first one I cooked I believe is already archived in the florilegium. Here are some rough notes (pulled from an old facebook status) on the second one from Crown Tourney in the Barony of Castel Rouge in the Kingdom of Northshield in May of 2012: I took the week before of work so that I would have time to do it justice. I was in charge of the feast, with help from some wonderfully dedicated volunteers. This was definitely a group effort & everyone did a fantastic job! We had 125 feasters and came in under budget :-) This was our menu: 1st Course: We started the course with a theatrical introduction. We had someone dressed as Poseidon, Roman god of the sea, pulled on a chariot (a heavy duty gardening wagon covered in a painted cardboard fa?ade) by 2 people dressed as sea horses. We had a bit of fun with the current King. Since he is originally from the Maritimes, we boasted that we had procured "grain fed prairie lobsters" for him (bread shaped like lobsters & tinted red on the outside) - Grain fed prairie lobsters (homemade milk bread shaped like lobsters) - homemade white artisan bread - homemade roasted garlic & rosemary artisan bread - homemade mozzarella - homemade lemon & chive cheese - homemade hummous - butter - olives - homemade candied walnuts 2nd Course We also did a theatrical presentation for this one. We had put wheels on a table & made a blue covering that reached all the way down the sides (completely covering the underside of the table) with fish decorating the sides. On the top we had foil lined paper mache swans covering the chicken dish. We had someone pushing the table from underneath so that it looked like it was moving by itself (& the swans swimming on the water). - spring salad with homemade lemon herb dressing (we made a fancy bouquet - Limonia (chicken with lemon juice, almond milk & poudre douce) garnished with marinated lemons - barley & lentil pottage (side dish) - clove cookies 3rd course I'd wanted to do a theatrical presentation to introduce this one too, but ran out of time to throw something together. - slow cooked shredded pork - roasted root vegetables - roasted onion salad (we caramelised the onions with some brown sugar) - homemade lemon sorbet I unfortunately wasn't able to get any pictures due to the hectic pace in the kitchen. I was able to find a few pictures taken by feasters & put them in a public facebook album: https://www.facebook.com/fernandafg1/media_set?set=a.6535736022.19575.679716022&type=3 Unfortunately my notes & pictures are scattered in different back-up files following several computer changes/crashes. My job has gotten progressively busier so I have not had many opportunities to create any more illusion foods recently - hopefully this will change soon! Faerisa > From: StefanliRous at gmail.com > Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2014 18:57:05 -0500 > To: SCA-Cooks at Ansteorra.org > Subject: [Sca-cooks] illusion foods > > Back in July, Johnnae posted: > <<< Article on Heston Blumenthal and the serving of "meat fruit" > > http://eater.com/archives/2014/07/11/meat-fruit-dinner-by-heston-blumenthal-london.php > > BTW, the award winning book Historic Heston is slated for an inexpensive edition to be priced at $50. >>> > > Wow. That meat fruit sure looks like a tangerine. I?m really amazed. A LOT of work though. > > In the article it says > <<< "The 15 hours of work daily though pay off in service ? which is "dead easy" Palmer-Watts says ? and with the customers. Meat Fruit is more than just a hit dish. "People are getting their picture taken with the dish, not only taking pictures of the dish,? >>> > > I?ve heard of an occasional, very good illusion food having been made in the SCA. Has anyone ever had folks taking ?selfies? of themselves with the food you?ve created? > > I?d love to hear some stories about successful illusion foods that you?ve done. And if period in style, I?d love to get photos that I could put in a Florilegium file to encourage others. > > Thanks, > Stefan > > One of the files in the Florilegium on illusion foods. I probably ought to move it from the FOOD section to the SWEET AND DECORATED FOODS section, but later, when I find the time. > illusion-fds-msg (147K) 12/13/13 Medieval illusion foods. Disguised food. > http://www.florilegium.org/files/FOOD/illusion-fds-msg.html > -------- > THLord Stefan li Rous Barony of Bryn Gwlad Kingdom of Ansteorra > Mark S. Harris Austin, Texas StefanliRous at gmail.com > http://www.linkedin.com/in/marksharris > **** See Stefan's Florilegium files at: http://www.florilegium.org **** > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Sca-cooks mailing list > Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org > http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org From rdownie at mts.net Mon Oct 27 14:08:24 2014 From: rdownie at mts.net (rdownie at mts.net) Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2014 16:08:24 -0500 Subject: [Sca-cooks] illusion foods In-Reply-To: <23860013-7A2E-4366-96D9-432E08307D39@gmail.com> References: <23860013-7A2E-4366-96D9-432E08307D39@gmail.com> Message-ID: I have created many stand alone subtleties & illusion foods over the years as well as 2 illusion food heavy feasts. The first one I cooked I believe is already archived in the florilegium. Here are some rough notes (pulled from an old facebook status) on the second one from Crown Tourney in the Barony of Castel Rouge in the Kingdom of Northshield in May of 2012: I took the week before of work so that I would have time to do it justice. I was in charge of the feast, with help from some wonderfully dedicated volunteers. This was definitely a group effort & everyone did a fantastic job! We had 125 feasters and came in under budget :-) This was our menu: 1st Course: We started the course with a theatrical introduction. We had someone dressed as Poseidon, Roman god of the sea, pulled on a chariot (a heavy duty gardening wagon covered in a painted cardboard fa?ade) by 2 people dressed as sea horses. We had a bit of fun with the current King. Since he is originally from the Maritimes, we boasted that we had procured "grain fed prairie lobsters" for him (bread shaped like lobsters & tinted red on the outside) - Grain fed prairie lobsters (homemade milk bread shaped like lobsters) - homemade white artisan bread - homemade roasted garlic & rosemary artisan bread - homemade mozzarella - homemade lemon & chive cheese - homemade hummous - butter - olives - homemade candied walnuts 2nd Course We also did a theatrical presentation for this one. We had put wheels on a table & made a blue covering that reached all the way down the sides (completely covering the underside of the table) with fish decorating the sides. On the top we had foil lined paper mache swans covering the chicken dish. We had someone pushing the table from underneath so that it looked like it was moving by itself (& the swans swimming on the water). - spring salad with homemade lemon herb dressing (we made a fancy bouquet - Limonia (chicken with lemon juice, almond milk & poudre douce) garnished with marinated lemons - barley & lentil pottage (side dish) - clove cookies 3rd course I'd wanted to do a theatrical presentation to introduce this one too, but ran out of time to throw something together. - slow cooked shredded pork - roasted root vegetables - roasted onion salad (we caramelised the onions with some brown sugar) - homemade lemon sorbet I unfortunately wasn't able to get any pictures due to the hectic pace in the kitchen. I was able to find a few pictures taken by feasters & put them in a public facebook album: https://www.facebook.com/fernandafg1/media_set?set=a.6535736022.19575.679716022&type=3 Unfortunately my notes & pictures are scattered in different back-up files following several computer changes/crashes. My job has gotten progressively busier so I have not had many opportunities to create any more illusion foods recently - hopefully this will change soon! Faerisa > From: StefanliRous at gmail.com > Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2014 18:57:05 -0500 > To: SCA-Cooks at Ansteorra.org > Subject: [Sca-cooks] illusion foods > > Back in July, Johnnae posted: > <<< Article on Heston Blumenthal and the serving of "meat fruit" > > http://eater.com/archives/2014/07/11/meat-fruit-dinner-by-heston-blumenthal-london.php > > BTW, the award winning book Historic Heston is slated for an inexpensive edition to be priced at $50. >>> > > Wow. That meat fruit sure looks like a tangerine. I?m really amazed. A LOT of work though. > > In the article it says > <<< "The 15 hours of work daily though pay off in service ? which is "dead easy" Palmer-Watts says ? and with the customers. Meat Fruit is more than just a hit dish. "People are getting their picture taken with the dish, not only taking pictures of the dish,? >>> > > I?ve heard of an occasional, very good illusion food having been made in the SCA. Has anyone ever had folks taking ?selfies? of themselves with the food you?ve created? > > I?d love to hear some stories about successful illusion foods that you?ve done. And if period in style, I?d love to get photos that I could put in a Florilegium file to encourage others. > > Thanks, > Stefan > > One of the files in the Florilegium on illusion foods. I probably ought to move it from the FOOD section to the SWEET AND DECORATED FOODS section, but later, when I find the time. > illusion-fds-msg (147K) 12/13/13 Medieval illusion foods. Disguised food. > http://www.florilegium.org/files/FOOD/illusion-fds-msg.html > -------- > THLord Stefan li Rous Barony of Bryn Gwlad Kingdom of Ansteorra > Mark S. Harris Austin, Texas StefanliRous at gmail.com > http://www.linkedin.com/in/marksharris > **** See Stefan's Florilegium files at: http://www.florilegium.org **** > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Sca-cooks mailing list > Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org > http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org From StefanliRous at gmail.com Wed Oct 29 15:27:35 2014 From: StefanliRous at gmail.com (Stefan li Rous) Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2014 17:27:35 -0500 Subject: [Sca-cooks] illusion foods Message-ID: <26BD9A48-6068-430C-B932-1F07CB55B076@gmail.com> Faerisa mentioned: <<< I have created many stand alone subtleties & illusion foods over the years as well as 2 illusion food heavy feasts. The first one I cooked I believe is already archived in the florilegium. >>> Hmm. The following is the only feast report I have on an illusion food feast, and I don?t think it is yours. Maybe yours was just lumped in with other illusion feasts in the illusion-foods-msg file? If not, please send me the info again and meanwhile, I will continue to look for it. I had this one mis-filed. I forgot to move it when I split off the FEAST-REVIEW section from the FEASTS section. So, the link didn?t bring it up. if you think something is missing from the Florilegium, PLEASE email me. ill-fd-feast-art (10K) 12/ 8/97 A feast consisting of illusion foods. http://www.florilegium.org/files/FEAST-REVIEWS/ill-fd-feast-art.html Some wonderful ideas in this file. Either for a whole feast of illusion foods or just a few to add in to your regular feasts. Stefan ???? THLord Stefan li Rous Barony of Bryn Gwlad Kingdom of Ansteorra Mark S. Harris Austin, Texas StefanliRous at gmail.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/marksharris **** See Stefan's Florilegium files at: http://www.florilegium.org **** From rdownie at mts.net Wed Oct 29 16:14:12 2014 From: rdownie at mts.net (rdownie at mts.net) Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2014 18:14:12 -0500 Subject: [Sca-cooks] illusion foods In-Reply-To: <26BD9A48-6068-430C-B932-1F07CB55B076@gmail.com> References: <26BD9A48-6068-430C-B932-1F07CB55B076@gmail.com> Message-ID: This is my first illusion feast: Valentines-Fst-art.rtfFile Format: Rich Text FormatBardic Madness Feast - A Valentines Day themed feast in Barony of Castel Rouge, Pricipality of Northshield, ... Head Cook: Baroness Faerisa Gwynarden.www.florilegium.orgwww.florilegium.org/files/FEAST-REVIEWS/Valentines-Fst-art.rtf Faerisa > From: StefanliRous at gmail.com > Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2014 17:27:35 -0500 > To: SCA-Cooks at Ansteorra.org > CC: rdownie at mts.net > Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] illusion foods > > Faerisa mentioned: > <<< I have created many stand alone subtleties & illusion foods over the years as well as 2 illusion food heavy feasts. The first one I cooked I believe is already archived in the florilegium. >>> > > Hmm. The following is the only feast report I have on an illusion food feast, and I don?t think it is yours. Maybe yours was just lumped in with other illusion feasts in the illusion-foods-msg file? If not, please send me the info again and meanwhile, I will continue to look for it. > > I had this one mis-filed. I forgot to move it when I split off the FEAST-REVIEW section from the FEASTS section. So, the link didn?t bring it up. if you think something is missing from the Florilegium, PLEASE email me. > > ill-fd-feast-art (10K) 12/ 8/97 A feast consisting of illusion foods. > http://www.florilegium.org/files/FEAST-REVIEWS/ill-fd-feast-art.html > > Some wonderful ideas in this file. Either for a whole feast of illusion foods or just a few to add in to your regular feasts. > > Stefan > ???? > THLord Stefan li Rous Barony of Bryn Gwlad Kingdom of Ansteorra > Mark S. Harris Austin, Texas StefanliRous at gmail.com > http://www.linkedin.com/in/marksharris > **** See Stefan's Florilegium files at: http://www.florilegium.org **** > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Sca-cooks mailing list > Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org > http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org From johnnae at mac.com Thu Oct 30 10:30:50 2014 From: johnnae at mac.com (Johnna Holloway) Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2014 13:30:50 -0400 Subject: [Sca-cooks] Video on underground salt mining Message-ID: <5868E147-302D-44ED-9B73-3D2FC2EE310E@mac.com> A short video on salt mining http://www.eater.com/2014/10/28/7086477/watch-a-short-documentary-about-appalachias-salt-of-kanawha Or https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fj9GWquU6Io Johnnae Sent from my iPad From nostrand at acm.org Thu Oct 30 13:02:04 2014 From: nostrand at acm.org (Solveig Throndardottir) Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2014 16:02:04 -0400 Subject: [Sca-cooks] What should go in a cookery monograph? In-Reply-To: <5868E147-302D-44ED-9B73-3D2FC2EE310E@mac.com> References: <5868E147-302D-44ED-9B73-3D2FC2EE310E@mac.com> Message-ID: Noble Cousins! Greetings from Solveig! I am working on a minor monograph about pre-modern Japanese food, food culture, cookery, &c. The monograph will include a translation of a Japanese cookbook. What other things should the monograph include? Thank you very much for your suggestions. Your Humble Servant Solveig Throndardottir Amateur Scholar From debell77840 at gmail.com Thu Oct 30 13:38:11 2014 From: debell77840 at gmail.com (Douglas Bell) Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2014 15:38:11 -0500 Subject: [Sca-cooks] What should go in a cookery monograph? In-Reply-To: References: <5868E147-302D-44ED-9B73-3D2FC2EE310E@mac.com> Message-ID: Greetings It can include notes on variant meanings of words in the ingredient lists and notes comparing period ingredients with possible equivalents in more recent Japanese cooking. An appendix with experiences of people who have prepared these recipes in the society and issues encountered in such preparation is also useful. Reenactors are not only interested in the historical texts. They wish to be prepare these foods and experience the long lost taste of such dishes. I look forward to seeing the monograph. Magnus On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 3:02 PM, Solveig Throndardottir wrote: > Noble Cousins! > > Greetings from Solveig! I am working on a minor monograph about pre-modern > Japanese food, food culture, cookery, &c. The monograph will include a > translation of a Japanese cookbook. What other things should the monograph > include? Thank you very much for your suggestions. > > Your Humble Servant > Solveig Throndardottir > Amateur Scholar > > _______________________________________________ > Sca-cooks mailing list > Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org > http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org > From johnnae at mac.com Thu Oct 30 14:53:37 2014 From: johnnae at mac.com (Johnna Holloway) Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2014 17:53:37 -0400 Subject: [Sca-cooks] What should go in a cookery monograph? In-Reply-To: References: <5868E147-302D-44ED-9B73-3D2FC2EE310E@mac.com> Message-ID: <5FA68D66-6E5E-40CB-9B16-1AD29ED7DDF2@mac.com> Lots of annotation for the monograph, weights and measures, notes so the cookbook can be cooked from, footnotes, and bibliography. Johnnae Sent from my iPad > On Oct 30, 2014, at 4:02 PM, Solveig Throndardottir wrote: > Noble Cousins! Greetings from Solveig! I am working on a minor monograph about pre-modern Japanese food, food culture, cookery, &c. The monograph will include a translation of a Japanese cookbook. What other things should the monograph include? Thank you very much for your suggestions. Your Humble Servant > Solveig Throndardottir From johnnae at mac.com Thu Oct 30 14:53:37 2014 From: johnnae at mac.com (Johnna Holloway) Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2014 17:53:37 -0400 Subject: [Sca-cooks] What should go in a cookery monograph? In-Reply-To: References: <5868E147-302D-44ED-9B73-3D2FC2EE310E@mac.com> Message-ID: <5FA68D66-6E5E-40CB-9B16-1AD29ED7DDF2@mac.com> Lots of annotation for the monograph, weights and measures, notes so the cookbook can be cooked from, footnotes, and bibliography. Johnnae Sent from my iPad > On Oct 30, 2014, at 4:02 PM, Solveig Throndardottir wrote: > Noble Cousins! Greetings from Solveig! I am working on a minor monograph about pre-modern Japanese food, food culture, cookery, &c. The monograph will include a translation of a Japanese cookbook. What other things should the monograph include? Thank you very much for your suggestions. Your Humble Servant > Solveig Throndardottir From StefanliRous at gmail.com Thu Oct 30 15:57:56 2014 From: StefanliRous at gmail.com (Stefan li Rous) Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2014 17:57:56 -0500 Subject: [Sca-cooks] illusion foods Message-ID: <55B639AA-BF87-4C4E-AF66-26BD6A423600@gmail.com> <<< This is my first illusion feast: Valentines-Fst-art.rtfFile Format: Rich Text FormatBardic Madness Feast - A Valentines Day themed feast in Barony of Castel Rouge, Pricipality of Northshield, ... Head Cook: Baroness Faerisa Gwynarden.www.florilegium.orgwww.florilegium.org/files/FEAST-REVIEWS/Valentines-Fst-art.rtf Faerisa >>> Oops. In hindsight, I really didn?t do a good job of describing that feast, leaving out the significant points that it was illusion foods and aphrodisiacs. That should be corrected now, in both the file and the file description. Valentine-fst-art by Faerisa Gwynarden (Illusion foods and aphrodisiacs) Errr. Actually: Valentine-fst-art (28K) 3/23/04 A Valentines Day themed feast by Faerisa Gwynarden (Illusion foods and aphrodisiacs) I just upgraded to the latest version of Mac OS, (Yosemite) and now the Safari web browser has decided it is smarter than I am, and deletes the file size and the date if I use the upper menu paste command. The on page menu paste gives the bottom, which is what is actually in the file I am pasting from. The new description also gives credit to Baroness Faerisa, now. If folks see things in the Florilegium that could be clarified or improved, please let me know. Assuming of course, that the site is worth maintaining. Now, Faerisa, about those second and third illusion feasts... Stefan -------- THLord Stefan li Rous Barony of Bryn Gwlad Kingdom of Ansteorra Mark S. Harris Austin, Texas StefanliRous at gmail.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/marksharris **** See Stefan's Florilegium files at: http://www.florilegium.org **** From galefridus at optimum.net Fri Oct 31 12:37:00 2014 From: galefridus at optimum.net (Galefridus Peregrinus) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2014 15:37:00 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Sca-cooks] What should go in a cookery monograph? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5d41c5fe.b9aaf.14967b5ff81.Webtop.59@optimum.net> If pre-modern Japanese cookery included a medical/philosophical component similar to humoral theory or northern European herbalism, it would good to include a brief discussion of it. -- Galefridus > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2014 16:02:04 -0400 > From: Solveig Throndardottir To: Cooks within the SCA Subject: > [Sca-cooks] What should go in a cookery monograph? > Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Noble Cousins! > > Greetings from Solveig! I am working on a minor monograph about > pre-modern Japanese food, food culture, cookery, &c. The monograph > will include a translation of a Japanese cookbook. What other things > should the monograph include? Thank you very much for your > suggestions. > > Your Humble Servant > Solveig Throndardottir > Amateur Scholar From cmupythia at cmu.edu Fri Oct 31 12:41:23 2014 From: cmupythia at cmu.edu (Gretchen R Beck) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2014 19:41:23 +0000 Subject: [Sca-cooks] What should go in a cookery monograph? In-Reply-To: <5d41c5fe.b9aaf.14967b5ff81.Webtop.59@optimum.net> References: , <5d41c5fe.b9aaf.14967b5ff81.Webtop.59@optimum.net> Message-ID: <56DDB644A1AF6E4CB5CF6CB8B50FCDB40265E349@PGH-MSGMB-03.andrew.ad.cmu.edu> What cookware or kitchen apparatus is used? toodles, margaret ________________________________________ From: Sca-cooks [sca-cooks-bounces+cmupythia=cmu.edu at lists.ansteorra.org] on behalf of Galefridus Peregrinus [galefridus at optimum.net] Sent: Friday, October 31, 2014 3:37 PM To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] What should go in a cookery monograph? If pre-modern Japanese cookery included a medical/philosophical component similar to humoral theory or northern European herbalism, it would good to include a brief discussion of it. -- Galefridus > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2014 16:02:04 -0400 > From: Solveig Throndardottir To: Cooks within the SCA Subject: > [Sca-cooks] What should go in a cookery monograph? > Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Noble Cousins! > > Greetings from Solveig! I am working on a minor monograph about > pre-modern Japanese food, food culture, cookery, &c. The monograph > will include a translation of a Japanese cookbook. What other things > should the monograph include? Thank you very much for your > suggestions. > > Your Humble Servant > Solveig Throndardottir > Amateur Scholar _______________________________________________ Sca-cooks mailing list Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org From johnnae at mac.com Fri Oct 31 18:54:08 2014 From: johnnae at mac.com (Johnna Holloway) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2014 21:54:08 -0400 Subject: [Sca-cooks] Upcoming Culinary Symposium Message-ID: <1A6E2918-4CF5-4E23-A335-F185D7926279@mac.com> Details are becoming available for the Calontir Cooks Symposium. April 25, 2015. https://sites.google.com/site/2015calontircookssymposium/ Johnnae Sent from my iPad