[Sca-cooks] Pretzels

[Rebecca Friedman]

Yes, now that you mention it. "-ello/a/i/e" is a diminutive. In case you're
curious, Bracciata is given as an armful or an embracing, which is only so
useful. The italian/italian dictionary gives it as armful as well. Brazzata
doesn't seem to exist.

(If you mean in the text as a whole, I'd have to recheck it, I don't have
the Italian right here, but if you do the standard ones are -ino, -ello,
and -etto. Normal warning for diminutives, they tend to change the meaning
- a libretto is literally a little book, but the word has developed a
specific meaning of its own. Do Not Try This At Home, etc. etc.)

I don't know if there are any descriptions of ciambella, but if there were
you might be able to estimate the size of the brazzatelle from that?

Rebecca

On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 6:27 AM, Terry Decker <t.d.decker at att.net> wrote:

> I have no problem with your translation, merely irritation at having an
> incomplete translation in my possession, which I hadn't compared to the
> original text.  This is Early Modern Italian prior to standardization, so
> spelling shifts and other oddities are to be expected.  A question you may
> be able to answer, are we looking at diminutives in this text?
>
> From a couple other quotes about how brazzatella were served, I would say
> they are a simple ring bread, while the "wreathed bread" they were served
> with is likely a ring braid.  What the descriptions don't provide is an
> idea of actual size and dimensions.
>
> Bear
>
>
>
> "And make them rise with great -" diligence or care, I would make that. And
> more precisely, I think they are rings, not pretzels - bagels precisely I
> can't speak to, but if you're curious about the linguistic argument...
>
> ... "bracciatello" is in Florio's 1611 dictionary as "A kind of roule or
> bisket bread, we call them round funnels". (Poking around on my other early
> dictionary, I get "bracciatello" described as a "kind of large ciambella"
> and a "ciambella" as "the same dough [as berlingozzo] made in the form of a
> ring" which seems pretty clear. Also, the dough is described as "flour
> mixed with eggs".) Mind, brazzatella --> bracciatello is still a shift.
> -zz- to -cci- is a change that happens very often, maybe even on a
> within-the-same-manuscript basis, but while -a to -o sometimes happens it
> is not nearly that common. So I don't guarantee they're the same, but
> they're very close, bracciatello is definitely an egg bread made in the
> shape of a ring, and I could not find the word brazzatella at all in the
> dictionary. So for whatever it's worth, there's my linguistic grounds!
>
> Becca
>
> On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 4:05 PM, Terry Decker <t.d.decker at att.net> wrote:
>
> I have a translation missing part of the text.  I've pulled up a facsimile
>> of Messibugio's text and a copy of Florio's 1611 Italian-English
>> Dictionary
>> to check the translation.  I'm missing "e le farai leuare con gran
>> diligenza" from the translation.
>>
>> Bear
>>
>>
>> "Then you will make your brazzatelle according to the method you want to
>> use, and then you will let rise with careful attention,"
>>
>> When a recipe tells you to let dough rise, I think it's a reasonable
>> conclusion that it has some sort of leavening in it, whether yeast or
>> sourdough. I'm working from a translation--do you have a different
>> reading of the original?
>>
>> --
>> David Friedman
>> www.daviddfriedman.com
>> http://daviddfriedman.blogspot.com/
>>
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