[Sca-cooks] Indian (New World) was Re: Gourd Recipe in the Transylvanian Cookbook

[Terry]

This started as some comments I made about cucurbits in relation to an 
obvious gourd recipe from the Transylvanian cookbook, including my 
speculation as to it's use with New World squash. ?? I was provided with 
modern recipes using New world squash and some corrective information as 
to how the dish was served.?? The nomenclature in Rumpolt demonstrates 
that New World foods were being in Central Europe by 1581, but not that 
squash were being substituted for gourds in the later recipe 
collection.?? However, with some other comments in the thread, it does 
raise the interesting question of the usage of Indianische or Indian


The usage of Indianische (Indian) for New World dates to 1492 when 
Columbus believed he had found the islands off of India. Basically, it 
was known where things came from, but the geographic location was off.


On the voyage of 1501-2, Amerigo Vespucci demonstrated that (South) 
America was not Asia, but a separate land mass.?? The Waldseemuller Map 
of 1507 labels South America as America.?? North America is labelled, the 
Indies.?? The first circumnavigation of the globe by Ferdinand Magellan 
(1519-22) located Asia and the Asiatic isles, but Magellan's death on 
the voyage and legal squabbling over the voyage and questions of mutiny 
prevented immediate dissemination of the information of the voyage.?? In 
1524, the Spanish Crown created the Council of the Indies to oversee 
Columbus's and other New World finds.


Leonard Fuchs came to Tubingen in 1533 at the behest of the Duke of 
Wurtemberg and began a collection of flora from all over the world.?? He 
began work on his Herbal about this time, publishing the work in 1542 
(I've also seen 1540 and 1541 as the date of publication, but lets go 
with 1542).?? In his German version of the work, published in 1543, Fuchs 
uses Indianische a number of time, but maize is labelled Turkishe Korn 
(the Turks were early adopters possibly receiving their first samples 
through the Genoan?? silk traders based in Spain) apparently because they 
introduced the grain into Central Europe.?? Interestingly, a New World 
pepper is labelled Calcutische pfeffer.


The first major accounts of the Spanish explorations which assembled the 
information about Asia and the New World were written by Peter Martyr 
who served with the Council of Castile and the Council of the Indies and 
based his reports on personal acquaintance with many of the explorers as 
well as the written reports and letters.?? His writings were published 
posthumously as De Orbo Novo in 1530.?? An edition was printed in Basle 
in 1533, but translations and widespread publication doesn't start until 
the 1550s.?? As the geographical knowledge spread, the earlier usages 
remained, but were refined and modified to match the new in formation.?? 
For example, (IIRC) the first distinct use of East Indies (as to 
differentiate from the West Indies) occurs in English in 1555.


Bear


On 6/29/2019 7:05 PM, Sharon wrote
> On Jun 7, 2019, at 11:42 AM, <jimandandi at cox.net> <jimandandi at cox.net> wrote
>
>> A case can be made for using New World squash with the recipe. Leon
>> Fuchs Herbal (1542) describes New World cucurbits found in the Ottoman
>> Empire (along with maize and peppers). There was a major encroachment by
>> the Ottomans into Hungary in 1541 with Transylvania being ruled by
>> Hungarian kings and under Ottoman suzerainty until 1602. It was during
>> the period of Ottoman control that a number of the new foodstuffs found
>> their way into Central Europe.
>
> Sorry to come late to the party.  Rumpolt 1581 list several items as "Indianischen" that are recognizably new world.
>
> Indianischen Hanen -  turkey, complete with illustration
> Indianische Schweinlein  - probably guinea pig. Although the picture is a pig, it is on the same page as porcupine.
> Indianische Fercklein - also guinea pig (fercklein is a suckling pig and has its own chapter else where in the book).
> Indianische Bonen - new world beans
>
> Ranvaig
>
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