[Stargate] Stargate's official date

[Michael Silverhands]

Annes,

You are assuming that the information in the OP is infallible. You  
might want to revisit that assumption. It *might* be absolutely  
accurate in the entries you cite, but... I wouldn't stake my life on  
anything in the OP. Just sayin'. ;-)

Having said that, I agree that things were done differently "way back  
then"... folks were still figuring out how they wanted things to be  
in the Current Middle Ages. And I find it quite plausible that there  
might have been a time lag between the creation of the Barony and an  
event to celebrate the fact (attended by the Crown). However, I'll  
stand by my "smell test" that I find it implausible that the Crown --  
even then -- would create a Barony without naming someone Baron; and  
that installing someone as Baron would have been effectively the same  
thing as elevating them to the rank, estate and title of Baron.

You wouldn't create a Kingdom or Principality -- even then -- without  
naming someone King or Prince. And that was synonymous with elevating  
them to the rank of King or Prince.

On the other hand, there's a big difference between a Barony and a  
Principality or Kingdom. I could see the former being done "by the  
stroke of a pen" back then, perhaps without a formal investiture in  
the presence of (and by the hand of) the Crown. But I see no  
effective difference between being named (in a letter) Baron of  
Stargate vs. being formally elevated as such in a Crown Court.

I'm curious what Bran and Shanahan might remember of those days...

Michael

On Jun 13, 2007, at 12:24 PM, Darlene Vandever wrote:

> *Dear Michael,*
> **
> *I know it seems strange...but perhaps (remember the SCA is only 6  
> years old
> itself at the time), the group was *founded* ie started in 0ct 1,  
> 1972 as in
> the paperwork got sent in and Myrrdyn was considered to *be* the  
> Baron (we
> might call him "acting" or "baron-apparent" perhaps...but the actual
> *elevation* didn't or *couldn't* take place until the next year. *
> **
> *So.....If you do a name search for Myrrdyn ap Rhys in the  
> interactive OP,
> his entry says Baron Stargate 10/17/73 to 3/5/77. BUT if you look  
> in an
> Awards search under Baronies in Fief, the date given there for the  
> beginning
> date to the barony is Oct. 1, 1972....which corresponds to the  
> entry in this
> Two Tower I am consulting.*
>
> *My understanding from talking with those who were actually in on the
> "ground floor" of the founding of Stargate (which was before Ansteorra
> existed) that the Crown of Atenveldt visited very infrequently such  
> as a
> year or more between visits. I am assuming that then as we do now,  
> there
> couldn't be an elevation without a Crown presence so....the time  
> lag. *
> **
> *I might try to track down Bran (I still have his numbers handy)  
> and see if
> he can remember if there was a time lag and the reason for it. And  
> I might
> be able to track down Shanahan also. All of the others have long  
> gone.....as
> a matter of fact, in this 1977 Two Towers, the paragraph with the  
> ballad
> says, "Only three of the founding members remain in Stargate, the rest
> having passed on to whatever fate awaited them in the world."  I'm  
> going to
> assume at this time that would be Bran, Shanahan and Myrrdyn.*
> **
> *We certainly wouldn't do things like this today. But according to
> everything I've read and heard, things were done quite a bit  
> differently
> than has evolved today. I wouldn't be a bit surprised at all to see  
> such a
> time lag during that formative period of our Baronial and Kingdom  
> history.*
> **
> *Isn't History exciting???*
> **
> *Annes*
>