[Steppes] Speaking of Heraldry ...

[Jay Rudin]

Chiara asked:

> I would like request of those heralds on the list to list kindly the
> different etiquettes for addressing a person of mulitple title. If there
is
> a difference between how it is done in Spain vs England, and you tell us
> both? I have always been facinated by the accents that are needed in our
> speech to best compliment the individual we are speaking with when
> addressing them in persona.

Well, there's no One True Way (tm).  Here are the basic principles as I know
them.  This is based primarily on English practice, because I can read those
books.

1. There is a difference betwen how somebody is addressed, and how they are
referred to. As near as I can tell, one is never properly addressed as "Duke
X", only as "Your Grace".

2. Multiple titles are never used, except in silly Victorian exuberance
("The Right Honorable Lord Admiral His Excellency Viscount ... ")  A period
example: His Grace the Duke, Sir Richard Neville, Duke of Warwick, Captain
of Calais, called the Kingmaker, who probably had other lesser titles as
well, is properly called "Your Grace", and referred to as either " the Duke
of Warwick" or "Lord Warwick" or even "Warwick". He is never addressed with
a string of titles.

3. Usually, the most correct title to use is either
     a) the highest title, or
     b) the most relevant title to the situation.
Thus, one would usally address Duchess Larissa as "Your Grace", but when
discussing art, it is also quite correct to call her "Mistress Larissa".
When I fight in fencing tourneys, my card usually says "Don Robin".  In
bardic competitions, it says "Master Robin".   Until I became a Laurel, I
did *not* use "Master Robin" in bardic settings, even though it was my
highest title. (I was a Pelican.)  I did not want people to confuse my
Pelican title for a Laurel one in an arts setting, so for a while, I used
"Baron Robin" to avoid the potential confusion.

4. Noble titles are not usually used as forms of address.  One doesn't call
the King "King Miguel", but "Your Majesty" or "Your Grace".  If you are in
fealty, it is correct to call him "My Liege" or "Sire".

5. Nonetheless, don't be stupid.  If I need to address Fritz, and he's with
a count, a countess, and two baronesses, I won't address him as "Your
Excellency", which could mean any of them.  I will say "Baron Fritz", or
"Lord Steppes".

5. Only knights take squires; only Laurels take apprentices, etc.  It is
technically incorrect, although quite common in Ansteorra, to say "squire to
Duke X", or "apprentice to Countess Y", or "Cadet to Baron Z".  My cadets
are "cadet to Don Robin".  My apprentices are "apprentice to Master Robin".

6. Nonetheless, there is nothing to be gained by correcting somebody who
likes to think of himself as, say, "squire to Count X".  Just smile and let
him be proud that his knight is also a Count.

7. Anybody who gets upset when you use any proper title is being
unreasonable.  Just assume that they've had a bad day, and forgive them
their pique.

8. People with multiple titles know that people are unsure what to do, and
rarely take offense no matter what you say.  By definition, they are people
who've been around a lot, and understand what the SCA is like.

9. Heralds, list mistresses, messengers, autocrats, and other people who
have to deal with people's titles in public are hard-working and often
distracted.  When you hear somebody get it wrong, don't shout out a
correction.  Either let it be, or go up to them quietly afterwards.  (When
list pairings are being announced, an incorrect title is not a problem.  A
lot of people shouting corrections is.)

10. People with multiple titles have already heard all the jokes about
multiple titles.  They will laugh when you tell one, but it will sometimes
be a tired laugh (unless you come up with a genuinely new one, as when Pyro
attached by Doctoral title to all the SCA ones on a scroll).

When Llewelyn was Baron of Elfsea, and a new Princess was attending the
White Scarves Circle, we were all asked to introduce ourselves to her, and
tell her where we were from.  When it got to Llewelyn, he stood up, said
"Elfsea", and sat down.  By period standards, he had in fact introduced
himself properly.  (For the record, Princess Octavia already knew him well.
He wasn't being unhelpful.)

I thought it was elegant and authentic.

I hope this helps.

Robin of Gilwell / Jay Rudin