[Sca-cooks] Opinions was Crocodile was Magpies

Kimberly Vallance tibbles74 at gmail.com
Tue Mar 4 19:16:23 PST 2008

 Thank you for not flaming me and explaining. Being newish it seemed odd to
see someone chided for their opinion, but know I see your point. I had not
seen it from that perspective, and I can see how it could cause problems. I
do apologize if my post came across wrong, since I was in err of how I was
seeing it. So many apologies and thanks for explaining.



On Tue, Mar 4, 2008 at 5:42 PM, Johnna Holloway <
johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu> wrote:

> We've had these conversation over the years and if the archives
> were available I'd refer you to those postings.
> There have been hundreds of these posts regarding recipes, redactions,
> authenticity,
> food history, etc. But there are no archives so let me try to explain.
> ----
> The point that Bear was trying to make and I in my earlier post when
> asking for references and recipes
> (as regards the Romans eating crocodiles) is
> that we could say anything if this list was just a collection of
> opinions, unsupported by research or facts.
> We could pronounce that "I believe Henry VIII often ate crocodile, but
> Anne Boleyn
> didn't like it and that was the real reason that she lost her head.One
> of the reasons that
> Henry VIII went along with the split from Rome was over the eating of
> crocodile on
> holy days."
> As for a source I could say that it's my opinion and that makes it
> valid. Or I could
> just refer to JM Barrie as my source.
> This is not the game we play and anyone saying that Henry VIII ate
> crocodile should expect
> to be asked to produce research that stands up to scrutiny.
> What one can do on this list is ask questions like "What do magpies
> taste like?" or "does
> anyone think that the Romans ate crocodiles in Classical Rome?"
> What is likely to get one called out are assertions like
> "Considering all the other unusual things (by modern standards) that the
> upper class Romans consumed, I would be surprised that Crocodile and
> snakes of various kinds are not among them."
> What is that assertion based on? What have you read? What sources? Which
> authors?
> In Latin or translation?
> So what's the proof, or in the case where's the proof of the crocodile
> in the banquet?
> You have to realize that a number of us do have the libraries and the
> research skills and the time
> to actually look into such things. Many of us have been collectors and
> researchers for decades.
> A number of us can reach over and withdraw numerous copies of Apicius
> plus another
> 50 books on eating in the ancient world, agriculture, domestication of
> animals, culinary histories, etc.
> Some of us own everything that is available on medieval Chinese cuisine.
> Others own everything
> on Arabic or French or English, etc.When someone says something that
> doesn't ring true, expect
> that someone may in fact ask "What's the source or the recipe?" Where's
> that beef?
> And by the way Dalby's Food in the Ancient World From A to Z does not
> list crocodiles as a food source!
> Johnnae llyn Lewis
> Kimberly Vallance wrote:
> >   I know I am new to the list only posting a few times, but I have been
> > watching conversations and a few things have come to my attention,
> > specifically with this conversation. Just because someone can not whip
> out a
> > reference does not make their opinion a flight of fancy as someone
> stated.
> > No more then my opinion of fresh tomato being icky is a flight of fancy
> or
> > that khli *a fermented meat dish of Morocco* is just ewww.
> >
> >   An opinion is not the same thing as saying something is a fact. It is
> to
> > quote m-w.com 1 a*:* a view, judgment, or appraisal formed in the mind
> about
> > a particular matter 2 a*:* belief stronger than impression and less
> strong
> > than positive knowledge.
> >
> >
> > I rarely post to this group as I am afraid of getting my head bitten off
> for
> > being wrong or having the wrong opinion. I can see having documentation
> if
> > someone wanted to present something as a fact. But getting on someone
> for an
> > opinion? Now I will probably get flamed and told how wrong I am but meh
> I
> > don't like watching someone get flamed for an opinion.
> >
> >
> > Anne
> >
> >
> >
> >
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