Period Heraldric Styles...
STDDLY at TINY_TIM.SHSU.EDU
Thu Aug 17 16:23:53 PDT 1995
> Catherine quotes Savian saying:
> >"fly what you want, but don't call it heraldry [unless it conforms to
> >the heraldic rules]." The rules of heraldry do not apply only to
> >devices prior to 1600, they apply even today.
> To twist the subject slightly:
> I have a cross-stitch embrodiery book that has human figures
> standing upright with one hand on top of a shield which is standing on
> its point next to them. The figures are both male & female and are
> dressed in Viking, Cotehardies, Houppelands, Italian Ren., and Tudor.
> There are blank shield shapes in which you are supposed to insert
> somebody's device or arms.
Sounds like a great book. What is the name and who is the Publisher?
As for using it for SCA stuff; I would have to look at the design
but standing with a hand on the shield one on either side sounds
like supporters. I wouldn't unless the person who you are doing the
cross-stitch for is entitled to supporters (those personages who are
also entitled to coronets). The rules for what you can have around
the shields are part of the sumptuary laws of the SCA. In our
kingdom , mottos and supporters and certian ways to display helm and
mantling are restricted to different ranks and registered.
The kingdom sumptuary laws will be reprinted soon, hopefully. We are
working on them and hope to get some changes approved and then we can
publish them. Sumputuary law like the Participant's Handbook and the
OP are seperately published parts of Kingdom Law.
>Now, I look at this as artsy presentation of a device, but sure
>enough,> when the local herald saw what I was working on, she said
> about "supporters" and "the heralds won't like it". It's not like
> there's mantling, a helm, a motto or real supporters anywhere on these
> patterns (not that it wouldn't be easy enough for someone to *add* these
> elements). Therefore, from my POV, it isn't heraldry. IMHO, it would be
> a pretty way for someone who will never earn the right to all the fancy
> stuff, to display their arms or device.
Heraldic ART is all that relates to devices and their display.
All heraldic display is regulated by Kindom Law. If you do some thing
like it, it is likely in this kingdom that people won't tear up your
project or some such like they would in some other kingdoms that are
more strict with their sumptuary law. But it might be embarassing if
someone displayed the piece and Had people ask "I didn't know you had
X title/rank what unusual supporters!"
Kief says: ALL things reguarding display of devices and things around
them are part of the symbolism of heraldry and must conform to the
Sumptuary laws of the SCA and the Kingdom
Me agian: You can disreguard the sumptuary laws if you want but the
insignia and heraldic display show what we have been
awarded/achieved. If you display or wear insignia that you have not
been awarded then you lessen yourself.
Case in point: A middle aged woman decided she did not have to
conform to sumptuary law reguarding the wearing of coronets. She wore
a coronet (baronial) and took the respect that the title is given and
"allowed" people to call her baroness. She did not have an award
higher than an AoA. (In our Kingdom it is a Grant of Arms) As people
found out they felt they had been fooled and that she was
dishonourable. They avoid her still. Because of this if she ever had a
chance at further awards she will have to work twice as hard to earn
the respect of those she fooled. She wanted the respect without
putting in the effort. Now she has lost all respect.
> Who in addition to being a dancemonger, wields a mean cross-stitch
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