Pug pug at arlut.utexas.edu
Wed Mar 29 05:47:34 PST 1995

> >Landscape.  The Sun coming up over the trees with a lake to the left.
> >This is art, but not heraldry.
> Why is this objectionable?
> Is there any real, valid, reason why something should not look like landscape?

As a complete guess, I'd go with 1) conflict of metal/metal or color/color,
and 2) too busy.

I don't know much about heraldry, but what I do understand would be that
you want it to be as simple as possible in order to be easily
recognized. As well, is there an actual period heraldric term for
everything you do when doing landscape? I doubt it.

> >3-D art.  Heraldry is not 3-D. Nuff Said.
> Not by a damn sight NEARLY enough said. There are examples in mundane
> heraldry of 3D (though they are modern).

Guess that means it is heraldry, but not as far as the SCA is concerned.
(It wouldn't surprise me that people have gone to 3-d in modern times,
especially to avoid conflicts.)

> The only reasonalbe objection i have heard to
> it is that it is not a period practice.

This sould be a good enough reason, and probably documented as the
reason, and not that it's not heraldry.

> >Too many "natural" charges. Natural roses, tigers, lions, etc. take away
> >from the heraldic look of a device.  There is a heraldic form for these
> >items for a reason. Use them and your devices will look more heraldic.
> What reason IS there not to use natural charges? because it makes it look too
> much like a picture? Why is that so bad.

The stated reason was "too many", not "not at all". I think the problem
here would be recognition from afar. Heraldry is still a form of
identification from afar, despite the fact that most people who use it
aren't fighters. Arms are a wonderful way to mark your encampment for

> >Too many charges.
> >Keep your charges recognizeable.
> >Limit the details.
> These three actually are good and useful, but they are also increadibly
> subjective. I have heard all three used to shoot down devices for
> reasons which have seemed a lot more related to disliking the person than
> the device.

I have "heard" of this as well. I've also "heard" them used to shoot
down what is valid heraldry, but on the edge of silliness.


Phelim Uhtred Gervase | "I want to be called COTTONTIPS. There is something 
Barony of Bryn Gwlad  |  graceful about that lady. A young woman bursting with 
House Flaming Dog     |  vigor. She blinked at the sudden light. She writes
pug at arlut.utexas.edu  |  beautiful poems. When ever shall we meet again?"

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