amazing at mail.utexas.edu
Sun Oct 20 20:39:52 PDT 1996
Lyonel here. Well, looks like this is my weekend for tromping all over my
Daniel de Lincoln wrote:
>On Sun, 20 Oct 1996, Sir Lyonel Oliver Grace / dennis grace
><amazing at mail.utexas.edu> wrote:
>> The herald who suggested that we consider analogs and heraldic form
>> BEFORE attempting to derive a name was, I believe, deluding himself
>> with the belief that SCA heraldry is somehow the primary
>> consideration in such matters.
>You happen to be incorrect as to my beliefs in this matter. I do not
>believe that SCA heraldry is "the primary consideration", if "primary"
>means "most important". In fact, I think that the support of the
>populace is the most important matter. (May I also note that I don't
>at all appreciate being called "deluded", and may I suggest you use
>something milder, such as "mistaken"?)
Point taken. To all and sundry: my sincerest apologies for overstating
Daniel de Lincoln's arguments and for the unfortunate word choice. I have a
nasty habit of expecting the worst from SCA heralds--I'll work on it.
As for stating that you considered the heraldry "most important," no. I
said "primary," by which I meant foremost or first. The statement in your
first missive to which I was responding was "Please don't settle on a name,
or even start discussing names, before some basic research gets done." I
found this exhortation irritating as it ran counter to exactly the sort of
discussion I was trying to initiate.
My thanks to you, milord, for clarifying your position and for offering some
additional fodder for the Infernal names discussion.
I would also like to note that, yes, I have considered the possible problems
that would arise if we named the principality Hell or Tartarus. Baroness
Mari raised this suggestion, I believe, in jest. I find it attractive in a
sardonic sort of way, but I doubt the likelihood of locating a precedent. I
also agree that some might think the name too dangerous (too hot to handle,
so to speak).
I do, however, think a name on the model of Hell's Something or Devil's
Whatsis or Quodlibet del Diablo would fit and could be used to much the same
effect as far as awards and adjunct naming practices (awards, orders, etc.).
As for the concern over nicknaming our forces the Legions of Hell--such an
argument sounds on par with: "We can't build a home in Hell's Canyon, Idaho;
the fundamentalists will burn us out as Satan worshippers!" Besides, the
English used to call the Scottish warriors Ladies from Hell--a reference to
their kilts--and the Scots co-opted it as a compliment. No, I don't see any
danger in this sort of name; no more than in using goblets and wearing
daggers and cloaks. People who are going to find the Satanic in the unusual
will always find us diabolical.
Yours in Service
Sir Lyonel Oliver Grace
Dennis G. Grace
Division of Rhetoric and Composition
Department of English
University of Texas at Austin
amazing at mail.utexas.edu
Baro, metetz en guatge | Lords, pawn your castles,
Chastels e vilas e ciutatz | your towns and cities.
Enanz qu'usquecs no'us guerreiatz | Before you're beat to the draw,
draw your swords.
-- Bertran de Born (a really fun Viscount)
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