Richard Bainter pug at
Mon Oct 21 07:28:23 PDT 1996

I won't take long this time. I've had my say I just hope you're right in
the outcome.

> I know this is a bit of a tangent, but I'm going to have to address this
> matter eventually anyway, so here goes:  I would like to see this area form
> a principality for two primary reasons.  First, I see a few problems here
> that I believe could be alleviated by creating some renewed interest.
> Creating a principality will provide a new goal to add some spice, a common
> purpose to unite our efforts and create a sense of community, and
> ultimately, more pomp and pageantry of local events.

We can always use that! Is a Principality *necessary* for it or a
convient way of achieving it?

> Second, principalities are fun, and I believe it would be even more fun if
> the principality were created specifically for that reason--to be
> fun--rather than for the usual whiny reason--those guys over THERE won't
> come play with us.

Once Sir Connor brought up the "fun" issue, it was the first time I'd
heard someone come outright and give a reason that I could agree with
for the creation of Principalities. The officer problems, political
anguish, calendar problems, etc, can all be dealt with by other means.

> Okay, how about "we'll concentrate our activities on supporting our local
> groups"?

That I can deal with. I think that if we haven't been that we have a
problem to address though.

> >How many "regional" events happen a year? How many groups take advantage
> >of the extra events by doing them jointly? From what I've seen looking
> >at the calendars, very few.
> Again, with a principality in place, this becomes a more-or-less
> self-correcting situation.  We'd have to hold Coronet List and Investiture
> twice a year each.  Many principalities also add their own A&S Competitions,
> Championships, Collegiums, and so forth.

I fully understand that this happens. I know that once we have a
Principality that there will be renewed vigour into the effort, if for
no other reason than cookie mongering. (Sad, but true state.)

The question I have been pondering is:

"Do we truly have the desire to do this since we haven't been doing
'regional' events and activities?"

> I also noticed that principality officers frequently went on to be kingdom
> officers.  Our first principality seneschal became kingdom seneschal.  Our
> premier Goldenwing Herald went on to be Aten Principal Herald.  

I could easily see this occuring. Service is service. I know I for one
wouldn't volunteer for a Kingdom office (as a deputy I recently did
though.). Going from Baronial to Kingdom would have to be a large shift
in concept that I don't think I would be able to do.

> As for maintaining attendance at kingdom events, I don't believe it suffered
> any with the formation of the principality.

Is that Kingdom events or events throughout the kingdom? There is a
difference. I hope your examples hold true for us as well.

> As I noted above, I don't believe you can form a principality around claim's
> like, "join us and you'll be better than everyone else."  The effort has to
> be concerted and cohesive.

Doesn't it come down to simply Corpora? If we have the population and the
vote we can do it? I beleive Bryn Gwlad has the population to do it,
although I think it would be rather stupid.

> I also believe, based on my experience, that
> working together with people in other areas, working to get folks involved,
> tends to translate well into general recruiting practices.  You're right,
> Phelim, arrogance will kill this barony.  Stagnation--for a group that
> relies upon voluntary membership--is death.  What causes stagnation?  Well,
> as you note, arrogance born of seniority or a sense of superior experience
> certainly doesn't *welcome* newcomers, and any refusal to welcome newcomers
> is stagnation.

You stated that much better than I had. Thank you.

> >No, that's not what I meant. I meant that if it's the same end point,
> >why intentionally go out of your way to cause the headaches.
> Okay, no insult intended, but I think you can see where I might mistake your
> claims for provincialism.

None taken. It would take a lot more than the words flying around here
to insult me.

> And *sigh*, yeah, I like hitting people with sticks.

I just tend to get them drunk myself. *evil grin*

> >I would enjoy helping start a principality *if* I still have fun and
> >not have to deal with the political BS of doing it. I have no problems
> >being in one, just the transition. (I figure people will calm down over
> >time.)
> Sounds like an excellent attitude to me.  If it isn't fun, I don't want to
> do it either.  We can erect signs at the borders:  ENTERING THE PRINCIPALITY

I'd love that to become a reality. (Leaving politics behind, not the
sign. *grin*)

> Many thanks to you, M'lord, for giving me another opportunity to ponder
> (and, yeah, pontificate upon) this issue of principality formation.  Until I
> can offer more, I remain

Thank you for giving me some insite into yourself and other


Phelim Uhtred Gervas  | "I want to be called. COTTONTIPS. There is something 
Barony of Bryn Gwlad  |  graceful about that lady. A young woman bursting with 
House Flaming Dog     |  vigor. She blinked at the sudden light. She writes
pug at           |  beautiful poems. When ever shall we meet again?"

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