Son of Ansteopality

Mark Harris mark_harris at
Thu Oct 24 13:57:11 PDT 1996

Daniel de Lincoln states:
>(OK, for *branches*, name and arms registration are required.  Even
>that's a more long-term force; some groups will, for various reasons,
>go for years with unregistered names and armory.)

I think even this power of the herald's is overblown as I think the
message pasted below points out. Sir Lyonel pointed out to me by email
that this is likely to be the exception and not the rule, but I don't
have anything to say this is the exception either.

It is an interesting story for those interested in how other groups
have chosen their names though.

Stefan li Rous

From: sandradodd at (SandraDodd)
Subject: Re: Names of Kingdoms?
Date: 7 Sep 1996 15:05:54 -0400

In old Atenveldt days, the barony (then all of the Phoenix area) was
called Atenveldt and the rest of the kingdom (a few groups in Arizona,
plus Caerthe, Great River, Stargate, Steppes, and not much more at first,
was "the Outlands" (meaning "not Phoenix").  In those days, there were not
Kingdom boundaries as there are now.  There were states which were not in
any kingdom.  Those assignments were made in the late 1970's, and the term
"Outlands" was around since mid-70's.

When the Outlands formed up as a region, the boundary was set at the
Arizona border.  This meant that the other groups in Arizona, including
Tir Ysgithr, which were at one time referred to as "the Outlands" were no
longer part of that.  It's about that time the "the Principality of the
Sun" slipped into existence, probably in part to cover that lack of
terminology to cover non-barony-of-Atenveldt which wasn't in another
principality (Meridies, Ansteorra or Outlands).   

Word came back in November/December of the first year the Outlands was a
principality that the name was unacceptable to the College of Arms.  
There was an officers' meeting the morning after the investiture of
Heinrich, the second prince, at which this was discussed.  I was
newly-made principality seneschal.  The Herald was directed to submit
"Outenlendes," an attempt at Middle English.  He wanted "Utanwayard" and
nobody at the meeting could stand it.   He was instructed to submit that
as backup/second choice, but, we later found out, he didn't.

Utanwayard was passed.  Nothing good every came of it except that in the
principality laws an advisory council was named, and called the
Utanwayardenmoot.   People still said "Outlands."

A couple of years later the formal request for a name restoration went
through, and I was sitting at the table at the board meeting (as Steward)
when the Laurel King of Arms was preparing to explain why he was planning
to reject it.  As well as I can remember, this was the conversation:

"What is it 'OUT' of though?"
I said, "The same thing the West is West of, the East is East of and the
Middle's in the Middle of."

We won the appeal.

AElflaed of Duckford

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