ANST - Sumptuary laws (lots o' stuff)

[joelight]

Wow, I congratulate you on you splendid bar room lawyer double talk!

I have been stirring questions amongst the low and downtrodden here.  My
questions arise from the idea that policies et al are basically a six month
length.  Then, if the Crown get mad at one of the GOOFs and tosses them
out, we sometimes start not once, but two or three times per reign with new
policies.  For example...I am the local treasurer.  I have sent numerous
inquiries as to what the EXACT needs of the IRS are.  Do we NEED a 15 page
report + monthly report?  No luck so far, but I think that the things
hiding in old law may be part of the problem.  Or, Modius may require only
a 15 cent post card for his report, but the next Hospitaller wants a two
page report.  We need some continuity and some government for officers.  I
think it starts with educating ourselves as to the infrastructure we are
built upon and how decisions are made.  Keep asking questions...we'll annoy
someone sooner or later enough to get some answers!

Ulrica, Blacklake



----------
> From: Dennis Grace <amazing at mail.utexas.edu>
> To: ansteorra at Ansteorra.ORG
> Subject: ANST - Sumptuary laws (lots o' stuff)
> Date: Wednesday, September 17, 1997 1:54 PM
> 
> Salut, Cozyns,
> 
> Lyonel aisai.
> 
> I have a question or three on Ansteorran Kingdom Law.  Lemme give you
some
> background so's this'll all make more sense:
> 
> In a recent discussion,
>
Almost-jeez-you-can't-you-just-*smell*-the-white-leather-and-hear-the-spurs?

> -Sir Dieterich said Someone Else had claimed to have a copy of the 1988
> BlackStar in which the then-Sovereign statutorily delineated and
delimited
> the appearance of certain Ansteorran coronets.  We both noted, however,
> that the most recent publication of Ansteorran Kingdom Law does not
reflect
> this statutory change. In fact, the most recent publication of the body
of
> Ansteorran Kingdom Law does not appear to address sumptuary laws in any
form.
> 
> So, here's the dilemma.  If the 1994 publication of Kingdom law contains
a
> statement to the effect that "the following collection of stuff is
> Ansteorran Kingdom law as of this XX day of YYY, 1994 and henceforth,
nunc
> et in futura, supersedes all previous versions," then the 1988 statutory
> change is null, void, noid.  If the 1994 publication of Kingdom Law did
> *not* include such a disclaimer, we have other problems.  As far as I can
> tell, neither Corpora nor Ansteorran Kingdom Law requires explicitly or
> implicitly that publication of a body of Kingdom Law supersedes
previously
> published laws. Corpora says only:
> 
> "A.1.g. (2) Law must be kept current, and all changes thereto must be
> proclaimed at Society events and                     published in the
> kingdom newsletter. No provision of law shall be in effect, nor shall the
> subjects of a
> realm be responsible for such provision, until such proclamation and
> publication have taken place."
> 
> Ansteorran Kingdom Law expands upon this dual requirement for legislation
> with:
> 
> "I.1.d. Edict shall be defined as any lawful command of the Crown, and
> shall have the force of statute for the period time proclaimed, but not
to
> exceed the duration of the reign in which it is proclaimed. Edicts of
more
> than 30 days duration, or which conflict with existing statutes, must be
> published in the first available Kingdom newsletter and signed by the
> Sovereign and the Consort. The published Edict must specify any portion
of
> Statutory law that it affects.
> 
> "e. Statutory law shall be the continuing body of law in the Kingdom. To
> change Statutory law, a new law must be published in the Kingdom
newsletter
> or must be mailed as a separate mailing to all persons receiving the
> newsletter, and signed by the Sovereign, the Consort, and the Kingdom
> Seneschal."
> 
> As far as I can see (says F. Lyonel Bailey, the Bar Room Lawyer), nothing
> in these documents states or implies that a new publication of the body
of
> Kingdom Law automatically superannuates laws omitted from or otherwise
not
> specifically addressed in that publication.
> 
> To complicate matters further, Ansteorran Kingdom Law (like most
kingdoms'
> laws) has a number of hydra-like extensions already.  As noted in Article
II: 
> 
> "II.3.p. Kingdom Officers are authorized to issue handbooks or policy
> manuals, detailing procedures and policies for their areas of
> responsibility. In the event that a Kingdom officer's handbook so
> specifies, and it is countersigned by the Kingdom Officer, the Kingdom
> Seneschal, and the Crown, the provisions of that handbook are hereby
> incorporated as a part of kingdom law."
> 
> So any disclaimer or statment of superannuation would have to
specifically
> exclude the G.O.o.S handbooks, n'est-ce pas?
> 
> So, here's my remaining questions.  
> 
> (1) I--being to cheap to purchase my own hardcopy--was working from
Michael
> de la Mare's online publication of Kingdom Law, which does not include
any
> prefatory matter or disclaimers.  Did the 1994 Publication of Ansteorran
> Kingdom Law include a disclaimer or introductory claim superseding
anything?  
> 
> (2) If not, aren't the previous publications of Kingdom Law (except in
> cases of clear conflict, where the newer law--I think--would have to
apply)
> still more-or-less in effect? 
> 
> (3) Does the Kingdom Seneschale's Handbook specify that the publication
of
> a body of Kingdom law supersedes everything it needs to supersede? 
> 
> (4) If not, how many other obscure Laws are hiding away in old issues of
> the Black Star waiting to jump out and bite us in our collective donkeys?
> 
> Avec many thanks to anyone who can shed some light, je reste
> 
> lo vostre por vos servir
> 
> Sir Lyonel Kill-All-The-Lawyers Grace
> ________________________________
> Dennis Grace
> Assistant Instructor
> Recovering Medievalist
> Department of English
> University of Texas at Austin
> 
> mailto:amazing at mail.utexas.edu
> 
> Micel yfel deth se unwritere.
> 	--AElfric of York
>
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