ANST - Points of Honor?

[Lenny Zimmermann]

On Tue, 20 Jan 1998 09:26:00 -0600, Stefan wrote:

> > A "point of honor" is when one fighter gains an advantage over his
> > opponent, then discards it.
[snip]
> > The debate is over whether or not they *should* be announced.
> > 
> >         -Tivar Moondragon
>
> Hmm. I think the debate is still over whether they should be done at all.
> 
> If I am fighting you, Don Tivar, on the field and I, a rather inexperienced
> fighter, take your arm should I then throw away my dagger? I would think that
> that action might be considered a rash, stupid and perhaps an insulting
> thing to do rather than a point of honor. I am in effect saying that I
> don't need the dagger to best you and so I'll just even things up a bit.

My personal preference is to ask. After all even in period it would
depend on when and where you are from as to how you would view these
"points of honor". To give up advantage can be viewed as a merciful,
courageous, virtuous, chivalrous and honorable. And I am quite certain
that in the Italian culture of the 16th century, this was pretty much
the case.

In other cultures, especially earlier in our period, to give up and
advantage you earned is considered not only a bit rash, but very
condescending. An insult to the highest degree. 

I prefer to ask if the person I have gained an advantage on would be
insulted were I to even that advantage. Actually I ask if they would
yield first, would is actually another discussion of honor between
yielding, showing you are not a coward by willing to face defeat and
stand up to being proven wrong (only in the case of a duel) instead of
taking the cowards way of death. And not yielding, showing your
courage by continuing the battle through all adversity and willing to
risk your life after you have already risked your limb for your cause.
(16th Century Italians generally went for the first one.) 

I think it is always best to never presume that your thoughts on the
matter are the "right" ones. Simply that they are different and to
accept those differences by naturally assuming that no slight or
insult is meant by actions opposite of what you would normally do. If
it REALLY bugs you, talk to the person about it later. 

As for announcing these points of honor. It does not matter to me if
it is done. For me the true meaning of honor comes not from what you
would do just because a crowd is around, but whether or not you would
do that thing even if you were fighting on a field with just you and
your opponent. It is then when you can know that virtue is a habit,
and thereby all the more virtuous. Only you can take away from your
internal Honor. 

I will say, however, that if in such situations Ansteorrans, as a
culture, found some form of behavior desirable and made it publicly
known then it probably is a good thing to herald it as such so that
others will know. I'm just not so sure we really want to push one view
over the other in this situation, as I think they both have merit.


Honos Servio,
Lionardo Acquistapace, Bjornsborg
(mka Lenny Zimmermann, San Antonio)
zarlor at acm.org
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