ANST - Nobility..

[Burke McCrory]

At 03:50 PM 6/11/98 -0700, Daniel de Lincolia wrote:
>"Pug Bainter" <pug at pug.net> wrote:
>> Lori Campbell said something that sounded like:
>> > One thing that hasn't been said yet is that in our Kingdom, CB's 
>> > convey a Grant of Arms, placing the recipient on the same precedence 
>> > level as Irises, Stars, White Scarves, Centurions, and simple Grants 
>> > of Rank.
>> 
>> Actually I thought it placed them *slightly* above them. At least
>> according to the "Guiding Hand", they are listed above them and not with
>> them.
>
>To be picky (who, ME?), the awards are given integers from 1
>thru 22, and the difference between adjacent levels is
>exactly 1 ...  The levels of precedence, snipped from the
>on-line Guiding Hand:
>
>[Royalty and ex-Royalty]
>
>08. Barons & Baronesses in Fief
>
>09. Visiting Barons & Baronesses in Fief
>
>10. Peers:
>   Knights of the Society (KSCA)
>   Mastery of Arms (MSCA)
>   Master/Mistress of the Laurel (ML)
>   Master/Mistress of the Pelican (MP)
>
>11. Court Barons & Baronesses
>
>12. Ansteorran Grant Orders:
>   Order of the Iris of Merit (CIM)
>   Order of the Star of Merit (CSM)
>   Order of the White Scarf of Ansteorra (WSA)
>
>13. All other Grants of Rank
>
>14. Ansteorran Grace Awards:
>   King's Gauntlet of Ansteorra (KGA)
>   Queens Glove of Ansteorra (QGA)
>
>[All other armogerous and non-armigerous awards]
>
>To my mind, the big gap is between 11 and 12: those above are
>nobles and/or peers; those below are not.
>

I tend to think of this as two separate lines of recognition.  The
recognition that you get for service, arts & sciences, fighting, etc. is
via the awards such as AOA, Crane, Star of Merit, Iris, Scarf, etc.  With
the peerages being the ultimate level of recognition.  But a triple peer is
not a Noble (as in title, not in actions).  The only way that you can be
granted Nobility is by the hand of the Crown.  The only active nobles that
the SCA has are Crown, Prince/ess, and Baron/ess all which involve ruling
over lands.  It could be said that when you have held one of these Noble
ranks you become a member of the Nobility.  When you step down from these
positions you are granted a different Noble title because you are still a
member of the Nobility.  When the Crow sees a person that has distinguished
themselves to such a degree, the crown may choose to elevate that person
into the Nobility without their having to rule over lands.  The person that
is elevated is styled as Baron/ess of the Court of Ansteorra.  If you look
at this as a separate line from awards and peerages I think it works
better.  But, since we combine everything into our order of precedence I
tend to agree with the current system.  CB should rank ahead of all other
save because they carry a Grant of Arms.  Peerages would be Next because
they carry the Patent of Arms. and the others should come next (in reverse
order) because they involve either active rule or past rule over Lands.
This is just my opinion.

Burke


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