ANST - White Scarves as Peers?

[Lenny Zimmermann]

On Tue, 16 Jun 1998 08:58:04 -0500, Master Tivar wrote:

[snip of Mistress Gunnora's post listing reasons why a Rapier peerage
may never be considered.]
>Mistress Gunnora has missed one important element in this discussion: historical accuracy. 
>
>In the Renaissance, peerages were given for military leadership or "service to the state",
> not for individual fighting ability. For example, a knight at the court of Queen Elisabeth would
> almost certainly know how to handle a rapier, but *none* of the London Masters
> of Defence were knights.

I would certainly remind everyone here that this argument  is only
relevant to time and place. Knighthoods in 16th Century Italy could be
given for any number of reasons that do not involve fighting or
service at all, except in the interest of entertaining a Prince (such
as for an exceptional poet.) They could be given for strictly
political reasons and, as in many places, they could flat be bought,
much as most other titles could. I would also note that from what I
can tell, Italians saw a Rapier as just another sword (they simply
called it spada in many manuscripts, italian for sword). As such
martial prowess was simply skill with weapons. It didn't matter if you
dueled with them since the only really honorable weapons to duel with
were those usable in a field of war anyway. 

I would also note that the London Masters of Defence were not
primarily "rapierists", either, which some people might attempt to
infer from the above post. They were not knights most probably because
they were not noble and/or could not afford to be knights, which has
no relevance to what weapons they fought with.

If you ask me ALL of the Pelicans, Laurels and Knights, should just be
"knights", or some designation of nobility or peerage. The current
process of trying to pigeonhole achievement into a three tier system
like we have in the SCA, while fitting well with modern sensibilities,
doesn't seem to mesh too well historically no matter HOW you look at
it. Mashing it all into a single peerage would rectify the problem
completely. Of course a Crown COULD always just confer a simple Patent
of Arms granting, effectively, a peerage without belonging to a
specific circle.

My thought is that perhaps the argument of "historical accuracy' holds
water in Elizabethan England, but the SCA comprises times and places a
bit more comprehensive than that. 

Just some food for thought.

Honos Servio,
Lionardo Acquistapace, Bjornsborg
(mka Lenny Zimmermann, San Antonio)
zarlor at acm.org
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