ANST - Two 15th Century Receipts for Steak

[Margo Lynn Hablutzel]

I'm not going to reproduce the entire message I sent to the A&S List in
response to Gunnora's message that she also posted here.

She started by saying:

        > Morgan said:
        > I figured I should keep quiet until I had time to consult my
        > references; since I don't have a peerage to back up my words,
        > I have to do it with documentation.  > 

        >> This is one of the bigger non-sequiturs I've seen in a while.
        >> Are you seriously suggesting that the Society holds Peers to
        >> a LESSER standard of proof and documentation?

Nope, just that some people figure that if a Laurel says something is so,
that's all they need, no documentation required.  Since you said that as a
peer you felt you have to teach people the Correct Way To Do Things, I knew
that I could not counter you with mere words, but having recipes for things
such as steak and potatoes (white or orange, do you prefer?) would
certainly go a longer way to showing that just because a Laurel says
something is or is not so, doesn't necessarily make it true.

        >> Certainly I never asked you for documentation... the issue we
        >> discussed was whether or not it was reasonable for you to be
        >> chastizing me publicly for what you claimed was me chastizing
        >> others publicly.

Aye, and it makes no sense for you to chastize people for having a feast
featuring what you state are non-period foods, when they did exist and were
used in period.  Maybe not in the same format as used in that feast, but
saying that a different recipe should be used is very different from saying
that they were not used, or did not exist.

        >> My original comments were based upon information that I had
        >> received from Meadhbh about the authenticity (or rather lack
        >> therof) of steaks as a medieval dish.

Turns out they ARE authentic -- perhaps not as cooked at that feast (and I
did not attend, so I don't know how they were cooked and presented), but
the cut of meat was used, and receipts exist for the preparation of same.

I don't want people to think that just because a peer says something did or
did not exist, or is or is not so, that the peer is 100% correct.  Even
someone who is a peer in the field can be in error if s/he has not
uncovered a certain receipt, or if his/her words are misinterpreted or
presented wrongly.  At Lillies this year I taught a class in Copyright Law
for the SCA.  One young newsletter editor who attended said that a local
multi-peer told him that the EU has decided to recapture under copyright
everything that is now in the public domain.  (Including little things like
Beowulf, Egil's Saga, and Shakespeare's works.)  I was quite surprised to
hear it, and did some research.  Turns out to be a gross misinterpretation
of a minor clause in a directive of a year or so ago, that provides a
copyright term for works newly found and never before published, that
otherwise would not be protected.

So, in this case, the newsletter editor, who had thirdhand information at
best, was badly informed.  Yet he spoke with enough authority that some in
the class, I am sure, believed what he said.

My argument to you is this: You made statements against a feast based upon
secondhand information and no research of your own.  I found this to be a
weak argument and opinion only, yet because you are a Laurel, some people
may take it as gospel.  I still think the manner of your speech was overly
harsh, especially given the weakness of the underlying information.  I also
think it is highly unfair of you to refuse to speak to me privately about
this, to continue in several public forums, and to post a grossly
inaccurate rendition of a personal message I sent to you in a forum where
you know I cannot go and therefore am unable to point out the highly biased
warp you have placed on it.

But since so many people in Ansteorra seem to value you so highly, I will
leave this conversation for the nonce, and go off to more pleasant
pursuits.

Bear is correct, BTW, that "greydle" gave us both "griddle" and "grill,"
with a stop at "gridiron," at least according to my etymological OED, which
does have a gridiron being used to grill meat and fish over a fire.  So
while Mistress Meadbh's assumption that steaks were in period pan-broiled
is an accurate one on the usual translation of "greydle" as "griddle" as
"large heavy flat pan," it is entirely possible that the word has other
usages and meant other things in different times.  (Cf., "corn.")  But
since I also have no 100% information on this, I am leaving that proof for
further documentation.  Will report in when ready.


                                        ---= Morgan



           |\     THIS is the cutting edge of technology! 
 8+%%%%%%%%I=================================================---
           |/   Morgan Cely Cain * Hablutzel at compuserve.com
                     Barony of the Steppes * Ansteorra
                          daytime: margolh at nt.com

CELEBRATE BANNED BOOKS WEEK!  September 26 - October 3, 1998

In 1997 the  Office for Intellectual Freedom (http://www.ala.org/bbooks)
tracked 595 challenges to books in schools, school libraries, and public
libraries. The most challenged books of 1997 include: 
     1. "I Know Why The Caged Bird Sings" by Maya Angelou 
     2. "It's Perfectly Normal" by Robbie Harris 
     3. The "Goosebumps" series by R.L. Stine 
     4. The "Alice" series by Phyllis Reynolds Naylor 
     5. "Of Mice and Men" by John Steinbeck 
     6. "The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn" by Mark Twain 
     7. "The Giver" by Lois Lowry 
     8. "A Day No Pigs Would Die" by Robert Newton Peck 
     9. "Kaffir Boy" by Mark Mathabane 
     10."Bridge to Terabithia" by Katherine Paterson 
============================================================================
Go to http://lists.ansteorra.org/lists.html to perform mailing list tasks.