ANST - seeds of new threads ... human fallibilty / officers / corporations ...

[j'lynn yeates]

> >  Shall we replace our King and Queen with a committee? 
> >  Must we take _every_ rumor at face value? Do we 
> >  have so little trust in our leaders?
>
> This I just don't understand.  What have the King and Queen got to do with
> the issue of buying a server?  

nada ... but the suggestion has possibilities (grin) seem to remember that it 
sorta worked for the french, though a bit OP (++g)


> ...Who raised any issues about not trusting our leaders?  

in this situation, it's a non-issue to my mind ...

on that topic ... over the years haven't met a good SCA leader yet who was 
unwilling to explain their decisions and listen and solicit suggestions / 
opinions from the populace (and shared drinks with many now and again 
discussing such things).  

note that i said "good" ... like all organizations that rely on humans for 
their leaders, being a successful "swinger-of-sticks" does not necessarily 
equate to being a exceptional leader.  thus it is important to rememeber that 
our leaders are human, and humans are fallable, and as such questions should 
always be asked ... ther have been many in the past i would trust implicitly 
and those that i would not turn my back on - and the entire spectrum of 
humanity in between.


> ...I haven't seen any posts where people made accusations about
> problems or malfeasance.   Maybe I haven't read enought posts but I really
> don't see where this came from.

think it was more concern of posting sentries at the corral before the raiders
made off with the herd now that it's growing and becoming a tempting target.  
what was that pseudo-islamic (or was it actual?) along the lins of "trust in 
allah, but lock up your camel" ....


>>  How can it be that, with so many financial philosophers in Ansteorra, there
>>  was only one applicant for Kingdom Treasurer last month? 
> 
> Maybe because there was only one person who has the free time to assume 
> the duties of the office?  

or lack the financial skills necessary ... don't have room for the paperwork 
... burned out from the past ... whatever.  

a point that is made for our supreme leaders (aka: kings) ... you have to have 
the resources necessary to do the job before entering crown.  most i know 
approach applying for an officer position do the same ... they take a close 
look at life, obligation, and resources and if they come up lacking, personal 
honor (not to mention commn sense) demands they not apply for something they 
are unsuited for or unable to take care of properly.

another problem (that sort leads back to the cooled off discussion about the 
why's of principlaity) is that this kingdom is very large and it's often 
difficult having your officer base scattered fro one end to another ... for 
varied reasons, not all can travel these longer distances as easily as others 
to the necessary business meetings. 


> ... In any case, what does this have to do with buying a server, or the 
debate over it?  

nada, but a important thread in it's own right ... why the low officer turn out 
and how to fix the things that are causing it and get people interested again 
in doing such things rather than running away at first mention


> ... If this is meant to imply that people who didn't apply are not qualified
>  to speak about raising money for a server, I must disagree - and if this
>  passasage has some other meaning, please correct me.  

came accross the same way to me and several others ... an old opinion that 
rears it's ugly head now and again.   what's next, having to have a 
authorization card, duly signed before your opinions are considered "valid" 
????


> .. The lack of an application has no bearing on either competence or right to
>  speak.  Should we bar from posting on this list anyone who did not send in
>  an application? 

kudos ...


>> And do we really want to make it so unpleasant for those who take the
>>  trouble to conceive a new idea, do the research, write a formal proposal,
>>  get formal pproval for the proposal by facing the Crown and all the Kingdom
>>  and Regional officers together and fielding their questions, and then carry
>>  through personally with the work, in this case into perpetuity?  

welcome to the real world of organizations and championing projects.  thsi is 
exactly the same process that you face when you try to carry *any* project 
through in the corporate world and like it or not, we're a corporation ... the 
populace the stockholders and all the corporation is answerable to the 
stockholders (ever gone to a SH meeting .... some makes our business meetings 
seem tame in comparison)


>>  Do _you_ hope to ever propose a new idea in this kingdom?  Are you looking
>>  forward to your baby getting the kicking-around and second-guessing Pug's
>>  idea has gotten? 

from what i have seen so far, Pug belives he's doing the right thing (i don't 
but so it goes) and dosn't seem phased in dealing with those that are testing / 
challanging his proposal ... bet he's done it before at work (grin).  so far i 
don't see him taking any of the challanges personally and more than reasonable 
to entertain options and suggestions that modify things for the better. 

if you truely believe in your "baby", you know that it will survive the 
testings ... can you make steel without fire and the hammer and anvil ????

personally, projects that slide through *without* discussion / debate / 
challange are the ones that scare me ... they're usually the dangerous hidden 
ones that come back to haunt you.


>> Public critique of ideas is not appropriate. If you have questions,
>> criticisms, or objections, send them in private. 
> 
> This is what I see as the core of this matter.  Since when is public 
> speaking on ideas not appropriate?  Since when is public debate on public 

in a free society, public critique of ideas is a cornerstone of that type of 
society.  i dread the day that the oprigional poster has his way and can 
silence all challange and debate on *any* matter by waving the hand of 
censorship and driving it underground.

'wolf


... When we hunt, we all function with one mind
... - Boingo, Pedestrian Wolves
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