ANST - Lists of Peers, the next generation, or deep south 35, or voyageur...

[Brent & Susan Rachel]

I'd like to just break down and bring into this forum the very topic (being
elsewhere discussed) that spawned all this peer (ac)counting:

Several peers in the West have come up with a proposal to put before the Board
of Directors suggesting the creation of a fourth peerage Order for PROWESS in
rapier, archery, possibly equestrian, and a few more "other martial fields."
They started a list to discuss this proposal.  As you might guess a lot MORE
that JUST that specific proposal was discussed.  During those discussions
various folks were publishing numbers of (active) peers in their Kingdoms and
comparing the numbers (kingdom to kingdom, order to order, etc).  Thus the
Ansteorran peer counts..

Some (not all) of the high points of the discussion there:

1) The Board has, in the past (last time I remember being several years ago),
responded to inquiries with statements along the lines of "the existing three
peerages are sufficient," and "there is not yet sufficient demand for another
peerage."  But no elaboration followed as to what the BoD would consider
sufficient demand, or just HOW they felt that those orphan martial arts should
be included into the 3 existing peerages.

2)  Other Kingdoms have given archers and rapier folks peerages, but never
expressly for excellence/prowess with the weapons in their field.  The prowess
was acknowledged, but the laurels were given for period research into fighting
and accouterments, passing on these period methods, making accouterments, etc;
the  Pelicans were given for service related directly to the arena of rapier
combat/archery.  Never for the "prowess" per se.

3)  Peer-level prowess in these orphan martial arts (coupled with possessing all
the other general peerage qualities) ought to warrant a peerage.., whether one
of the existing 3, or another one.

4)  The 3 we have are sufficient:  laurel for A&S, pelican for service, and
chivalry for martial activities.  Therefore, the last should be opened up to
allow for the inclusion of "the rest of the martial activities".  This might be
accomplished by:

        a.  Creating a new (sub-) Order within the Chivalry (to accompany the
existing two - the Order of Knighthood and the Order of Mastery of Arms - these
2 names are right out of Corpora). The new (sub)-Order could be called the Order
of Mastery of Defense, or a zillion other suggested titles)

        b.  opening up the existing Order of Mastery of Arms to admit non-rattan
combat/martial activities/war leadership, but leaving the Knighthood unaltered.

        c.  The current Masters of Arms should be made Knights Bachelor (or
Banneret, etc) and maintain their prerogative not to swear fealty, and the
now-vacated Mastery of Arms be opened for "the rest of the martial activities."
        d.  insert your idea here.., it was probably discussed at least once.

5)  Naked Patents should be made legal (they are NOT right now) so that those
who fall outside the "Big 3" peerages can receive due recognition (possibly in
the form of some "noble title").

6)  The Pelican should be eliminated and we should just go back to one big Order
of the Laurel, with Knights of the Laurel for fighting and Masters of the Laurel
for "other than fighting" and for fighters who don't want to swear fealty.

7)  Nothing new is needed.., at all.  Everything is fine as is.

That's all I can think of right now, though I am sure I left out lots (over 600
posts of activity in the first 4-5 days!!)

Anyway, I felt it time to maybe discuss this in an open forum.  Is it time to
look at recognizing "the rest of the martial community" for peer-level prowess
with their weapons of choice?  If so, how?  If not, why not?  Etc.

Kazimir Petrovich





dssweet at okstate.edu wrote:

> I want to thank everyone who has posted or sent me changes to those three
> big lists on each of the peerages. I won't repost the entire lists, but
> below you will find the changed numbers. If anyone else is just insane
> enough to *want* the updated lists, give me a hollar & I'll send what I've
> got to you (but don't wait too long - 14 days & counting).
>
> GRAND TOTALS OF ALL PEERAGES
> (i.e. each person is only counted once, which will make a difference
> between each separate list of peers)
>
> Active - 138
> Moved - 36
> Not active - 22
> Deceased - 9
> Unknown - 59
> TOTAL - 264
>
>           PELICANS            LAURELS         CHIVALRY
> Active              51                 72                    47
> Moved                 7                24                    11
> Not Active          10                 13                      6
> Deceased         4                  4                     2
> Unknown        13                 25                    25
> Total               85               138                     91
>
> There are 3 Triple Peers in the Kingdom.
> And there are/were/have been (however you want to think about it, I
> excluded no one in this count) 7 Laurel/Chivalry combos, 22 Laurel/Pelican
> combos, and 15 Chivalry/Pelican combos (if I counted correctly).
>
> Enough amusement for now.
>
> Estrill
>
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